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Mar 25, 2021 17:03
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:46 |
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I always love any time you fail a check and can go "wait why are all these dialogue options lovely" Oh god like the first check I failed when talking to the woman outside the Whirling-in-rags 
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Mar 25, 2021 17:04
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AceOfFlames posted:While the game at first glance looks like it does the South Park thing of mocking everyone, it quickly becomes apparent that the game directly mocks the ideologies of ultraliberalism (ancap), neoliberalism, fascism and centrism themselves and calls out those who follow them as cowards or evil while the absolute worst it has to say about communism is that it's an impractical dream and it's far more interested in mocking those who use lip service to communism for violent or self-serving ends. who gets mocked for being a violent communist? the revolution is clearly framed as just, it's failure devastates the world, the endgame shows that the RCM fully intend to launch an armed resistance, and the deserter is provided an enormous amount of sympathy Claes Oldenburger posted:I think it's so hard on communism because the game makers are from Estonia and are probably reminded every day of what a failed communist state looks like. Even despite that though, they still have socialist leanings because as another poster mentioned, it offers hope even through the failure. they thanked engels in their awards speech, I think they're more than leaning into socialism.
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Mar 25, 2021 17:06
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Also: Half Light will never, ever let you down  
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Mar 25, 2021 17:08
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Disco Elysium - Say one of these fascist or communist things or gently caress off.
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Mar 25, 2021 17:09
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Well gonna need to find a high quality artist to recreate these expensive jackets for me! That dude in the black jackets fit is loving good as hell. absolutely loving those pants and boots.
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Mar 25, 2021 17:14
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The only acceptable savescumming is when you really want to Kung fu 360 kick solve racism
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Mar 25, 2021 17:15
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dogstile posted:I was actually kind of worried about this. Sounds like it really wants you to roleplay quite heavily in one direction or another rather than make people in game feel good/get what you want. Which I suppose is a message in itself? I think it actually expects you to have some inconsistency, and its recognition of that behavior doesn't punish the player, it's more like a throwaway dialog line or two. There's also some confirmation bias in the thread because megafans of the game tend to be leftist, but the text itself isn't quite as cartoonishly pushing its political agenda as it may sound. There are liberal characters who have personal integrity and leftist characters who don't. Fascism is pretty much the one case that the game overtly and consistently makes fun of, because duh. Also the last page or two have had kind of a lot of unnecessary spoilers for a conversation that's explicitly about how to approach as a new player. Having 1 HP or Morale at the start of the game because of how you built your character is an entertaining part of the game experience, and it's still not a difficult game even under those circumstances. "Make sure you have money by night 2" is pretty much all that needs to be said.
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Mar 25, 2021 17:22
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In terms of the games leanings... Isn't Kim, basically the only character in the game that is pretty much objectively right and cool all of the time, a moralist? Not a leftist?
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Mar 25, 2021 17:56
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HE IS A POLICEMAN OF THE STATE TO COME
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Mar 25, 2021 18:12
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DourCricket posted:In terms of the games leanings... He's a realist, and the status quo is 'real' to him. He's lost his faith in it, but the thing that makes him a good detective -but not on par with the PC- is that connection to established logic and evidence, but its also what keeps him from moving past Moralism. This comes up a lot with the Cryptozoologists, who have rebelled against conventional authority and understanding in pursuit of a literal symbol of hope, but Kim will refuse to accept or even entertain the idea of that hope until it is literally staring him in the face. At that point, he will relent and concede it is real, even if he's flabbergasted by it and still trying to reconcile it with the established knowledge base he has. Its also, notably, the very next scene where we learn the establishment that he's most attached to is planning a leftist revolution, so...
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Mar 25, 2021 18:32
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Brosnan posted:I think it actually expects you to have some inconsistency, and its recognition of that behavior doesn't punish the player, it's more like a throwaway dialog line or two. There's also some confirmation bias in the thread because megafans of the game tend to be leftist, but the text itself isn't quite as cartoonishly pushing its political agenda as it may sound. There are liberal characters who have personal integrity and leftist characters who don't. Fascism is pretty much the one case that the game overtly and consistently makes fun of, because duh. Yes and no. The game is definitely nuanced in that people are more than their political ideologies, but that’s more to expound upon the point than anything. Kim leans moralist and is one of the most likeable people in the game but moralism is unambiguously killing the world. Likeable does not mean right. This is to challenge you to hold fast to or concede your principles in the face of the real.
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Mar 25, 2021 18:46
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It's probably been answered before, but do we know if Harry is voiced in the Final Cut?
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Mar 25, 2021 18:53
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Chalks posted:It's probably been answered before, but do we know if Harry is voiced in the Final Cut? The devs confirmed he's not.
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Mar 25, 2021 18:56
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the only time Harry should be "voiced" is when he sings karaoke
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Mar 25, 2021 18:58
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The important thing about the political ideologies as represented in the game is that they are also deeply personal, and thus deeply flawed because of who you are on a fundamental level. Even if an ideology is "right", the game makes it clear that Harry's embracing that ideology almost certainly has a lot more going on in terms of his reasons to do so than any surface level reading of the ideology itself would present. And I think that holds true for the other characters too. For the most part, the likeability and admirability of the other characters is not primarily dependent on their ideology. Even one of the fascist characters is genuinely sympathetic, and there are examples from all ideologies of the people espousing them and genuinely believing them being hosed up and monstrous. Because the politics always has to travel through that personal lens, and the politics you espouse does not actually change who you are on a fundamental level, it can only reflect it. Harry embracing every ideology inconsistently makes perfect sense when you realize he's a man struggling for a coping mechanism and using ideology as an attempt to shield himself from a past he is obsessed with. Harry embraces fascism not for any nationalist reasons so much as because he is angry and bitter about a woman and doesn't want to blame himself for losing her. He embraces communism for similar reasons, he is idealizing a past and it's potential future that was never going to happen, and now he's unable to move on, and simultaneously wishing he could clear away all the detritus and just start over, and it just leaves you angry at an unfair, unjust world that hurts people who don't deserve it (because you've been hurt and you didn't deserve it, or thats how you see it). Ultraliberal Harry clearly doesn't engage with his 'hustle' on a substantive level, but instead uses it to distract himself from thinking deeply about things, because thinking deeply about things hurts and its easier to build a fantasy world for yourself where you're actually super successful and in-the-know about a bunch of poo poo and definitely not the failure of self control that you actually are. Finally, moralist harry is ultimately still a cop, an enforcer of the status quo, and doing your job well actually is important to you because it's literally the one thing you've got left, it's an admission that your hope for something better is gone, torn apart by your failed past, and you're doing your best to ignore the hosed up state of the status quo because the only alternative is oblivion. No matter which ideology you pursue, you are still, ultimately, Harry, with all that entails. There's a reason the ideologies available to you are what they are, and why you can't be any of the several ideologies presented in the game as belonging to characters that aren't you and only have those four to pick from. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Mar 25, 2021 |
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Mar 25, 2021 19:19
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DE is interesting in that it’s truly art. People take a lot of different things away from it. I’m always personally surprised people are so wrapped up in the politics, it struck me as 100% humorous commentary woven into a story about human beings. And I think it plays basically 0 part in the real thrust of the game.
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Mar 25, 2021 19:24
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i am a moron posted:DE is interesting in that it’s truly art. People take a lot of different things away from it. I’m always personally surprised people are so wrapped up in the politics, it struck me as 100% humorous commentary woven into a story about human beings. And I think it plays basically 0 part in the real thrust of the game. Well from the perspective of someone who has yet to play it, the human element seems downplayed in service to the political one. But if the writing is sharp enough to circumnavigate the pitfalls of a politically focused narrative and lends humanity to its cast, so much the better. I think the reason I brought all this up is because while one might agree with the authorial perspective, a piece of art is often cheapened when its political agenda is laid bare. It doesn’t have to be, but once you get into that territory, you’re walking a very fine line. But the way everyone has responded only heartens me. I think, again, why I asked about this stuff beforehand was because of the prevailing toxicity, high degrees of rhetorical pyrotechnics, and intense conflict that are indicative of the current global environment. If this game were merely a snide commentary on that, I think it would diminish its value to me, personally. This is all air, I’m playing it regardless.
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Mar 25, 2021 19:35
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AceOfFlames posted:The devs confirmed he's not. this is a good thing
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Mar 25, 2021 19:43
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BurningBeard posted:Well from the perspective of someone who has yet to play it, the human element seems downplayed in service to the political one. But if the writing is sharp enough to circumnavigate the pitfalls of a politically focused narrative and lends humanity to its cast, so much the better. Enjoy! It will be fulfilling for you, I bet.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:03
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i am a moron posted:DE is interesting in that it’s truly art. People take a lot of different things away from it. I’m always personally surprised people are so wrapped up in the politics, it struck me as 100% humorous commentary woven into a story about human beings. And I think it plays basically 0 part in the real thrust of the game. Really? You think the game with frequent melancholy reflections of the doom of the revolution and the inevitable slow motion collapse of the moralist status quo setup thereafter was 100% humorous commentary?
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Mar 25, 2021 20:09
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DourCricket posted:In terms of the games leanings... That says more about his personality than his politics. Joyce is also a very positively portrayed character even though ultimately she is a capitalist, through and through. The contrast between these things and the organic way she inhabits her identity is part of what makes her compelling, just like with the struggles Kim has with his ideology. Meanwhile, Evrard is a manipulative self serving rear end in a top hat, but nobody does more for the working class than him in the game. It's a nuanced story in that way.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:14
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I do, yea. I think there was a larger theme that all of it really means gently caress all in the face of nothingness and a universe of supreme weirdness and randomness. The moments that were meaningful to me were about the characters, not viewing the game through the lens of specific ideology. You could’ve swapped the names of the different political systems (except maybe facism) and it would’ve made 0 difference to me.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:15
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Eh, to me - it underlined the point that politics is personal and personal is politics.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:33
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Sinner Sandwich posted:He's a realist, and the status quo is 'real' to him. He's lost his faith in it, but the thing that makes him a good detective -but not on par with the PC- is that connection to established logic and evidence, but its also what keeps him from moving past Moralism. This comes up a lot with the Cryptozoologists, who have rebelled against conventional authority and understanding in pursuit of a literal symbol of hope, but Kim will refuse to accept or even entertain the idea of that hope until it is literally staring him in the face. At that point, he will relent and concede it is real, even if he's flabbergasted by it and still trying to reconcile it with the established knowledge base he has. Its also, notably, the very next scene where we learn the establishment that he's most attached to is planning a leftist revolution, so... You can tell Kim's a moralist because when he sees, with his binoclard eyes, that the symbol of hope is real, his first reaction is "Be careful, it might be dangerous." A revolution to free the working class forever? Now now, people might get hurt. Kim is a Sunday Friend.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:43
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i am a moron posted:I do, yea. I think there was a larger theme that all of it really means gently caress all in the face of nothingness and a universe of supreme weirdness and randomness. The moments that were meaningful to me were about the characters, not viewing the game through the lens of specific ideology. You could’ve swapped the names of the different political systems (except maybe facism) and it would’ve made 0 difference to me. The game is a mirror. If you came away from it thinking that the politics weren't central and that what really matters is the friends we made along the way or whatever and that the rest was just set dressing, then that's you choosing to ignore the central themes of the game and it's probably not dissimilar to how you ignore things in your daily life.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:47
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Aces Low says that Kim is a pinko and I’ll hear no more of this slander.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:48
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People who never see the phasmid because they refused to believe something wonderful is possible are like the entire message of this game
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Mar 25, 2021 20:54
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i am a moron posted:I do, yea. I think there was a larger theme that all of it really means gently caress all in the face of nothingness and a universe of supreme weirdness and randomness. The moments that were meaningful to me were about the characters, not viewing the game through the lens of specific ideology. You could’ve swapped the names of the different political systems (except maybe facism) and it would’ve made 0 difference to me. Moralist detected it seems 
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Mar 25, 2021 20:59
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Wicked Them Beats posted:The game is a mirror. If you came away from it thinking that the politics weren't central and that what really matters is the friends we made along the way or whatever and that the rest was just set dressing, then that's you choosing to ignore the central themes of the game and it's probably not dissimilar to how you ignore things in your daily life. Hmm interesting if that’s true I wonder what it says about someone who would post this
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Mar 25, 2021 20:59
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i am a moron posted:Hmm interesting if that’s true I wonder what it says about someone who would post this It means they're capable of some degree of literary analysis op
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Mar 25, 2021 21:01
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Going over head meme, where what's going over my head is the entire political and historical context of the game, and what I'm looking at going wow cool is the 500 dollar kim jacket
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Mar 25, 2021 21:15
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i am a moron posted:DE is interesting in that it’s truly art. People take a lot of different things away from it. I’m always personally surprised people are so wrapped up in the politics, it struck me as 100% humorous commentary woven into a story about human beings. And I think it plays basically 0 part in the real thrust of the game. POLITICS in my story about PEOPLE??
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Mar 25, 2021 21:24
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fondly remembering the various games journalists who were extremely perturbed that harry couldn't cure measurehead's racism or cuno's juvenile delinquency
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Mar 25, 2021 21:24
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i am a moron posted:I do, yea. I think there was a larger theme that all of it really means gently caress all in the face of nothingness and a universe of supreme weirdness and randomness. The moments that were meaningful to me were about the characters, not viewing the game through the lens of specific ideology. You could’ve swapped the names of the different political systems (except maybe facism) and it would’ve made 0 difference to me. username post combo holy loving poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2021 21:25
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On the other hand:
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Mar 25, 2021 21:27
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I really wanna buy that limited edition soundtrack vinyl but $129 is a bit too much for me
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Mar 25, 2021 21:32
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Wow some of you must be insufferable irl. They set the table early talking about apes duking it out - the fact that some of you got so attached to another form of tribalism presented in the game says more about you than me. There isn’t an oversimplified political ideology they didn’t take the piss out of, but congratulations on your intellectually superior reading of the game I guess.
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Mar 25, 2021 21:32
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i am a moron posted:Wow some of you must be insufferable irl. They set the table early talking about apes duking it out - the fact that some of you got so attached to another form of tribalism presented in the game says more about you than me. There isn’t an oversimplified political ideology they didn’t take the piss out of, but congratulations on your intellectually superior reading of the game I guess. Watch who these guys thank before thinking this game isn't meant to make you think about politics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aa6kXBcRlc
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Mar 25, 2021 21:40
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:46 |
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i am a moron posted:Wow some of you must be insufferable irl. They set the table early talking about apes duking it out - the fact that some of you got so attached to another form of tribalism presented in the game says more about you than me. There isn’t an oversimplified political ideology they didn’t take the piss out of, but congratulations on your intellectually superior reading of the game I guess. do you think the point of disco elysium is that all political movements are actually just tribalism? if that's what you took from it then ok but I dont think the majority of people who played it would agree. I don't think the people that made it would agree.
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Mar 25, 2021 21:40
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