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lol
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Mar 25, 2021 21:34
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lmao for real
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Mar 25, 2021 21:35
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Serf posted:so you want to modify the behavior of other people to align with your fervent belief in a genocide for which you have no substantive proof. instead of making a convincing argument you chose to spam random links all day with the goal of proving that other people have better research skills than you? again, this is confused and irrational. i don't think a single person here has claimed that they know what is happening in xinjiang and the prevailing attitude is the "we don't know" that you claim to seek. but what people won't do that you want them to is swallow all sorts of propaganda and wild reports with no evidence behind them simply because you demand it. either back up your arguments or don't be surprised when they're rejected
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Mar 25, 2021 21:35
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Dolphin posted:i mean there are a lot of eyewitness reports about individual experiences but you're not going to find a comprehensive account, it doesn't just exist, it couldn't given ccp policies then let's gather them in a big pile and look at all of them
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Mar 25, 2021 21:36
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lol
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Mar 25, 2021 21:36
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Dolphin posted:no, i don't want them to do that. I've been fairly consistent in my assertion that there are a ton of reports and allegations that you may doubt the veracity of, but there's a difference between skepticism and outright denial which is what you guys are doing. there was a poster earlier just googling the authors to do a character assassination and go "cia. next." like it's not academic and no you guys don't have research skills, there's nothing logical about this and you have these skills despite citing sources that explicitly stated they didn’t actually check if anything they published was true or not?
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Mar 25, 2021 21:37
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Victory Position posted:then let's gather them in a big pile and look at all of them
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Mar 25, 2021 21:37
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Dolphin posted:it's not the same as iraq, there's a difference between having bombs and committing genocide. it's the stakes. Are you saying Saddam didn't commit genocide?
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Mar 25, 2021 21:37
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like source criticism is “a thing” and a key part of academic research in social sciences
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Mar 25, 2021 21:37
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Dolphin posted:no, i don't want them to do that. I've been fairly consistent in my assertion that there are a ton of reports and allegations that you may doubt the veracity of, but there's a difference between skepticism and outright denial which is what you guys are doing. there was a poster earlier just googling the authors to do a character assassination and go "cia. next." like it's not academic and no you guys don't have research skills, there's nothing logical about this i haven't seen the cia connected to this thing yet. it wouldn't surprise me, but again, no evidence of that has been posted. you seem to have a very different view of what's going on in this thread than the rest of us, and again i think this is because our realities to not intersect also, we're the ones who are debunking the things you're posting without research, so maybe try to rethink how you approach this topic if you want to modify our behavior
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Mar 25, 2021 21:38
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Raskolnikov38 posted:and you have these skills despite citing sources that explicitly stated they didn’t actually check if anything they published was true or not?
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Mar 25, 2021 21:38
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Atrocious Joe posted:Are you saying Saddam didn't commit genocide?
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Mar 25, 2021 21:39
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Dolphin posted:no, i don't want them to do that. I've been fairly consistent in my assertion that there are a ton of reports and allegations that you may doubt the veracity of, but there's a difference between skepticism and outright denial which is what you guys are doing. there was a poster earlier just googling the authors to do a character assassination and go "cia. next." like it's not academic and no you guys don't have research skills, there's nothing logical about this have you considered that you might have some deep seated orientalist views that allow "something bad must be happening" to be such a core belief despite no evidence? like im honestly not trying to pull a gotcha or accuse you of being a chud or anything but sinophobia is so subtle and insidious, we've been indoctrinated to see east asians as putting less value on human life, basically monsterizing them to the point that these wild accusations can seem plausible with no introspection
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Mar 25, 2021 21:41
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Dolphin posted:I'm saying we didn't go to war over an alleged genocide. this is pretty interesting historical revisionism, as i recall many instances of saddam's gassing of the kurds as justification for invasion
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Mar 25, 2021 21:42
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Serf posted:i haven't seen the cia connected to this thing yet. it wouldn't surprise me, but again, no evidence of that has been posted. you seem to have a very different view of what's going on in this thread than the rest of us, and again i think this is because our realities to not intersect
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Mar 25, 2021 21:43
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:have you considered that you might have some deep seated orientalist views that allow "something bad must be happening" to be such a core belief despite no evidence? like im honestly not trying to pull a gotcha or accuse you of being a chud or anything but sinophobia is so subtle and insidious, we've been indoctrinated to see east asians as putting less value on human life, basically monsterizing them to the point that these wild accusations can seem plausible with no introspection basically this. when given a dearth of information and a packet of supplementary knowledge from a dubious source, how does your mind fill in the blanks? it's nasty stuff, but it's very subtle, the government is very nasty like that
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Mar 25, 2021 21:43
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:we've been indoctrinated to see east asians as putting less value on human life the best argument against religion is that a higher power did not make westmoreland spontaneously combust when he said this
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Mar 25, 2021 21:43
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Serf posted:this is pretty interesting historical revisionism, as i recall many instances of saddam's gassing of the kurds as justification for invasion
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Mar 25, 2021 21:44
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:have you considered that you might have some deep seated orientalist views that allow "something bad must be happening" to be such a core belief despite no evidence? like im honestly not trying to pull a gotcha or accuse you of being a chud or anything but sinophobia is so subtle and insidious, we've been indoctrinated to see east asians as putting less value on human life, basically monsterizing them to the point that these wild accusations can seem plausible with no introspection
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Mar 25, 2021 21:46
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Dolphin posted:i think they intersect a lot, but my suspicion is that your reality is a lot more informed by political prejudice than mine. lol i've tried to be polite but this is too loving funny Dolphin posted:i was 15 at the time i could have missed that part. given the lack of depth of your other opinions seen in this thread, that wouldn't be surprising
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Mar 25, 2021 21:46
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Serf posted:lol i've tried to be polite but this is too loving funny 
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Mar 25, 2021 21:49
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dolphin what was your major field of study out of curiosity
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Mar 25, 2021 21:50
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Raskolnikov38 posted:dolphin what was your major field of study out of curiosity
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Mar 25, 2021 21:50
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THS posted:hopefully this is a honeypot and tomorrow we all get perma-banned. finally free
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Mar 25, 2021 21:54
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THS posted:hopefully this is a honeypot and tomorrow we all get perma-banned. finally free
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Mar 25, 2021 21:58
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Dolphin posted:My issue is not with people saying "we don't know for certain what's happening over there" because I totally agree with that. As I'm sure most people agree (I think) the CCP like other governments tightly controls their state secrets and a lot of this info is nigh impossible to accurately estimate barring the CCP releasing it. The only people who could possibly have access to that info is the CCP, or possibly other states' intelligence communities. You say "multitude" but in fact all your non-academic sourced keep collapsing back to the same several individuals or think tanks and unless I skimmed too aggressively you haven't posted any academic sources yet. Even the narratives of psychos like Zenz, when actually read rather than imagined and generalized from, end up describing this empty business like... there are boarding schools. There are cops. Etc. You've studiously ignored every attempt to examine how and why the Chinese state would enact repressive measures because a materialist analysis just doesn't go the way you want it to. So, instead, there's just handful after handful of pocket sand, and somehow each particular source getting traced back to RFA or outright debunked never seems to have any bearing on how seriously we should take the next dozen.
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Mar 25, 2021 22:02
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Ferrinus posted:You say "multitude" but in fact all your non-academic sourced keep collapsing back to the same several individuals or think tanks and unless I skimmed too aggressively you haven't posted any academic sources yet. Even the narratives of psychos like Zenz, when actually read rather than imagined and generalized from, end up describing this empty business like... there are boarding schools. There are cops. Etc.
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Mar 25, 2021 22:04
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Serf posted:the more i think about it, the more i agree with that poster from earlier. if we can't agree on sources of information then our realities do not intersect, and i'm not sure what sort of useful interactions can come out of that fwiw i strongly suspect our realities intersect in other areas, but i don't think there's a mutually acceptable source wrt the ongoing situation in china i think getting probed for genocide denial when posting 4chan memes about the ongoing situation in china (or any time the gently caress is wrong with the posters who roll around in poo poo and then bring it back here) is appropriate as happened to this dude Zeno-25 posted:
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Mar 25, 2021 22:05
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lmao now flavius is the genocide denial mod
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Mar 25, 2021 22:06
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:lmao now flavius is the genocide denial mod the system works folks
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Mar 25, 2021 22:07
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:lmao now flavius is the genocide denial mod
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Mar 25, 2021 22:10
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Dolphin posted:not giving the guy any credit, as I said I don't even know much about zenz but is there a specific reason other than him being a religious idiot that he's blacklisted? he works for the organization that lists the nazis as victims of communism
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Mar 25, 2021 22:11
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Relevant Tangent posted:fwiw i strongly suspect our realities intersect in other areas, but i don't think there's a mutually acceptable source wrt the ongoing situation in china i mean, the meme's only inconsistency is that all those incidents were proven to be fabrications and misrepresentations, and the current situation is not yet clear, which is jumping the gun but it establishes a pattern of behaviors that makes people distrust these narratives personally i have no desire to defend the ccp, and a genocide would be another (quite horrific) thing to count against them. but i just don't see it here, not with any of the provided evidence. there's plenty of evidence of severe political and religious repression, which imo should be the focus of the criticism
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Mar 25, 2021 22:11
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look i dunno about you guys but im ready to believe a capitalist country is doing terrible things to its citizens it just clashes heavily with the idea of the US (and others) government telling the truth about what anyone else is doing, or having pure motives to do literally anything
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Mar 25, 2021 22:12
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Relevant Tangent posted:fwiw i strongly suspect our realities intersect in other areas, but i don't think there's a mutually acceptable source wrt the ongoing situation in china There is absolutely nothing about that post that should have been banned. A 6er for using a meme maybe at the absolute most.
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Mar 25, 2021 22:13
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Dolphin posted:not giving the guy any credit, as I said I don't even know much about zenz but is there a specific reason other than him being a religious idiot that he's blacklisted? I see the evangelical leanings as the cherry on top the incredibly shoddy statistics done to produce the initial "over a million" figure and membership in the Victims of Communism foundation (which plays incredibly disingenuous numbers games of its own on the reg). I'm sure Zenz is sincere in his allegations and joined VoC because they honestly reflect and support his beliefs, but I don't know what else but motivated reasoning could compel him to stick with his terrible numbers. The real problem, though, isn't him so much as the fact that like two sources out of three always end up leading back to him. If this joker constitutes so much of the genocide accusers' arsenal it indicates to me that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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Mar 25, 2021 22:15
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Mar 25, 2021 22:15
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I don't know if this is a thread for greater moderation issues but can we talk about megathreads? I don't think that megathreads are bad, for example we have the Eurasia one since all the threads about individual countries didn't see much posting and got killed off. The same is true with Latin America, Africa, etc. Some seem to produce very toxic personalities and environments for example I can't remember if it's the covid thread, or the climate change thread but one of them has resulted in 6 divorces.
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Mar 25, 2021 22:16
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AnimeIsTrash posted:I don't know if this is a thread for greater moderation issues but can we talk about megathreads? gotta be the covid thread. the spouse facts revealed there have been wild
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Mar 25, 2021 22:17
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that was the covid thread, which incidentally, last winter, was the most racist ive ever seen cspam since back when we had actual trump voters here
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Mar 25, 2021 22:18
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