C-SPAM moderation and Xinjiang: read rules in op

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Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

like, has anyone actually said that china was wrong about sanctioning people in the trump administration here?

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:33

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# ? May 11, 2024 05:57

studio mujahideen: May 3, 2005

Gringostar posted:

the world should 100% be sanctioning the us for a ton of stuff though

But they cant! That's the point! Freaking out about China has bipartisan support because they represent a state actor who actually has the ability to act upon us. This is why the things they do must be uniquely evil, unlike anyone else in the world.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:35

Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

Varinn posted:

But they cant! That's the point! Freaking out about China has bipartisan support because they represent a state actor who actually has the ability to act upon us. This is why the things they do must be uniquely evil, unlike anyone else in the world.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/20/958996415/china-slaps-sanctions-on-28-trump-administration-officials-including-mike-pompeo

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:37

studio mujahideen: May 3, 2005

im talking about actions against states, lol. nobody gives a poo poo about pompeo being sanctioned. poo poo like what we're doing to iran

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:39

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

comedyblissoption posted:

this means you will fall for american foreign policy talking points over and over again instead of giving it the skepticism it deserves

What? No it doesn't. My assumption of the worst case scenario is based on the fact that we already know China engages in human rights abuses, so why wouldn't they engage in something worse? I don't grant the government of China special dispensation just because they aren't the US. If they want to prove they aren't committing crimes against humanity, let them prove it.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:39

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Gringostar posted:

the world should 100% be sanctioning the us for a ton of stuff though

Sanctions are a good way to mildly inconvenience individual people or to weaponize poverty and starvation against a civilian population; there's no middle ground.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:39

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Admiral Ray posted:

What? No it doesn't. My assumption of the worst case scenario is based on the fact that we already know China engages in human rights abuses, so why wouldn't they engage in something worse? I don't grant the government of China special dispensation just because they aren't the US. If they want to prove they aren't committing crimes against humanity, let them prove it.

Wait what? You will automatically believe any country that already conducts human rights abuses or genocides is committing any other human rights abuses or larger/worse ones? Would you believe that China's leadership are feasting on human flesh nightly if someone got an op ed to that effect published in WaPo and then expect the Chinese goverment to disprove it?

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:41

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

The Oldest Man posted:

Wait what? You will automatically believe any country that already conducts human rights abuses or genocides is committing any other human rights abuses or larger/worse ones? Would you believe that China's leadership are feasting on human flesh nightly if someone got an op ed to that effect published in WaPo and then expect the Chinese goverment to disprove it?

Moving from enacting population controls to cultural genocide isn't a leap. Going from population controls to bizarre Alex Jones conspiracy bait is. The point is China has a history of pretty severe human rights abuses, and committing another atrocity on top of that isn't beyond the pale. I don't grant the US any quarter here either, so if someone was to say that were doing something horrific, it'd be on the US to disprove it in my opinion.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:45

Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

Varinn posted:

im talking about actions against states, lol. nobody gives a poo poo about pompeo being sanctioned. poo poo like what we're doing to iran

no one here has discussed sanctions against china that go beyond their political elite though :confused:

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:45

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Gringostar posted:

on thing that's been bothering me is that while everyone here 100% acknowledges that most (all) western reporting are at minimum tainted by adrian zenz and the us state department and should be looked at with a poo poo load of skepticism no one has talked about how chinese media isn't also tainted as hell when it comes to reporting on issues inside their own boarder as well

that's my main issue ive had with this entire discussion is that there (at least to me) seems to be a double standard of dismissing 100% of western sources (which ill grant we should be dismissing 95% at least with how tainted it's been shown to be) we're at the same time also suppose to believe everything chinese state media is releasing as well?

in short, only trust your fists, the media will never help you

let me know when china has as rich a history of international atrocities as america has beyond their own borders then ill give a poo poo about what their media says

the moment china starts funding death squads and installing brutal dictators all over the world then ill give a single gently caress about their loving stupid media

but hey america world police and is the good guy that doesnt have a way more heinous history of loving poo poo up all over the world am i rite? while our media pushes tons of bogus stories about foreign boogey men

Agrajag has issued a correction as of 22:53 on Mar 26, 2021

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:48

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Gringostar posted:

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/20/958996415/china-slaps-sanctions-on-28-trump-administration-officials-including-mike-pompeo

you really think that mike pompeo has ever been even mildly inconvenienced by any of these "sanctions" in his daily life? does he eat less well because of them?

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:52

Thorn Wishes Talon: Oct 18, 2014; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 9 days!)

I only post in the Doomsday econ thread so I hope it's okay if I share my two cents here.

twoday posted:

It seems to me that �genocide denial� is, in theory, a pretty clear cut-and-dry reason to take harsh moderation actions. In theory! The main problems here as I see them are:

1) We don�t know what is happening in Xinjiang, and that makes any discussion about whether it is a genocide or not extremely heated and murky, especially when:

We don't know what is really happening in Xinjiang because the Chinese government is refusing to allow independent international journalists and NGOs to go in to investigate and document the practices. That is literally the only reason, and it makes no sense to use it as the basis for hesitating to call it genocide because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, particularly when the only entity preventing the gathering of said evidence is the Chinese government.

Why are they adopting such a stance of aggressive stonewalling? After all, there has to be nobody in the world who wants to permanently refute these allegations of genocide more than China. Such allegations are terrible for a country's reputation and can hang like a black cloud over any other endeavor they might wish to pursue in the international arena.

People here constantly (and correctly) bash the Biden administration for refusing to allow lawyers into the camps at the US border and generally failing to be much more transparent when it comes to how refugees are treated. But it seems those same people are willing to resort to all sorts of mental gymnastics to avoid holding China to the same standards. Sure, there might be some reluctant admissions that China may be "too heavy handed" or they might be committing a few human rights abuses here and there, but there's a substantial and very noticeable amount of sympathizing with China. Why? What makes China deserve this type of benefit of the doubt? I mean yes, this is the leftist subforum, but when did leftists become fascist sympathizers?

twoday posted:

2) there is no consensus on the definition of genocide among posters, and that often leads to people arguing past each other. Some people think there must be extermination camps for it to be a genocide, others think that mandatory cultural re-education is enough to meet that definition.

This lack of clarity and consensus on these forums regarding the definition of the word �genocide� in the phrase �genocide denial� makes it extremely difficult to moderate based around that offense. The other part, the word �denial,� is also problematic, because many of the people who are accused of denying everything actually acknowledge that there very likely human rights abuses taking place.

I don't know why there needs to be a consensus on the definition of genocide among posters for there to be moderation, because these forums don't exist in a vacuum. The term has a well-recognized and widely accepted meaning in international circles:

quote:

Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements:

1. A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
2. A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:

- Killing members of the group
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

And you know what? We know for a fact that the bolded one is happening. We know because Chinese officials have themselves confirmed half of it � that birth rates amongst Uyghur women in Xinjiang have plummeted. They of course denied that this was due to forced sterilizations, but one must ask if there's a meaningful difference between forced sterilizations, and imposing conditions on these women such that they must avoid getting pregnant at all costs, to the point where many are willing to undergo "voluntary" sterilization if they want to have any hope of meeting the conditions of their release (if they are even given a chance to try getting pregnant in the first place � we don't know if they are allowed to fraternize with men). Now, intent is a requisite of the "genocide" label, so you might ask, is the prevention of births the intent of the Chinese government? Who knows � the Chinese government won't let us independently interview the women ourselves. I'm sure the CPP is loving the fact that these women are learning Chinese and producing widgets instead of pumping out little Uyghur babies, though.

Putting all that aside, those refusing to call the treatment of Uyghurs "genocide" on the basis that "they are just re-education camps" should ask themselves what their reaction would be if the United States repurposed its camps at the border into indoctrination facilities where every incoming refugee must forget their Guatamalan-ness/Costa Rican-ness/Nicaraguan-ness/etc. and instead learn English and the American Way of Life and a set of skills determined by the US government so that they can be a "productive" member of society, before they are allowed into the country. I suspect that people here would be falling over themselves to label it genocide, then, and all these distinctions between real genocide and cultural genocide would be thrown out the window in a heart beat.

At the end of the day what China does is much more than a series of human rights abuses. It is a crime against humanity. Considering this, whether it fits the definition of genocide perfectly or only partially is almost besides the point.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:53

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010

Agrajag posted:

let me know when china has as rich a history of international atrocities as america has beyond their own borders then ill give a poo poo about what their media says

the moment china starts funding death squads and installing brutal dictators all over the world then ill give a single gently caress about their loving stupid media

I know what you mean contemporary stuff but like... Genghis Khan just to start with.

America is a baby and has done plenty to instill itself as a warcrime champion in its short time but... like... let's not get silly here with the history

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:54

Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

Agrajag posted:

let me know when china has as rich a history of international atrocities as america has beyond their own borders then ill give a poo poo about what their media says

the moment china starts funding death squads and installing brutal dictators all over the world then ill give a single gently caress about their loving stupid media

but hey america world police and is the good guy that doesnt have a way more heinous history of loving poo poo up all over the world am i rite? while our media pushes tons of bogus stories about foreign boogey men

atrocity olympics it is then

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:57

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Thorn Wishes Talon posted:

I only post in the Doomsday econ thread so I hope it's okay if I share my two cents here.

We don't know what is really happening in Xinjiang because the Chinese government is refusing to allow independent international journalists and NGOs to go in to investigate and document the practices. That is literally the only reason, and it makes no sense to use it as the basis for hesitating to call it genocide because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, particularly when the only entity preventing the gathering of said evidence is the Chinese government.

Why are they adopting such a stance of aggressive stonewalling? After all, there has to be nobody in the world who wants to permanently refute these allegations of genocide more than China. Such allegations are terrible for a country's reputation and can hang like a black cloud over any other endeavor they might wish to pursue in the international arena.

People here constantly (and correctly) bash the Biden administration for refusing to allow lawyers into the camps at the US border and generally failing to be much more transparent when it comes to how refugees are treated. But it seems those same people are willing to resort to all sorts of mental gymnastics to avoid holding China to the same standards. Sure, there might be some reluctant admissions that China may be "too heavy handed" or they might be committing a few human rights abuses here and there, but there's a substantial and very noticeable amount of sympathizing with China. Why? What makes China deserve this type of benefit of the doubt? I mean yes, this is the leftist subforum, but when did leftists become fascist sympathizers?

I don't know why there needs to be a consensus on the definition of genocide among posters for there to be moderation, because these forums don't exist in a vacuum. The term has a well-recognized and widely accepted meaning in international circles:

And you know what? We know for a fact that the bolded one is happening. We know because Chinese officials have themselves confirmed half of it � that birth rates amongst Uyghur women in Xinjiang have plummeted. They of course denied that this was due to forced sterilizations, but one must ask if there's a meaningful difference between forced sterilizations, and imposing conditions on these women such that they must avoid getting pregnant at all costs, to the point where many are willing to undergo "voluntary" sterilization if they want to have any hope of meeting the conditions of their release (if they are even given a chance to try getting pregnant in the first place � we don't know if they are allowed to fraternize with men). Now, intent is a requisite of the "genocide" label, so you might ask, is the prevention of births the intent of the Chinese government? Who knows � the Chinese government won't let us independently interview the women ourselves. I'm sure the CPP is loving the fact that these women are learning Chinese and producing widgets instead of pumping out little Uyghur babies, though.

Putting all that aside, those refusing to call the treatment of Uyghurs "genocide" on the basis that "they are just re-education camps" should ask themselves what their reaction would be if the United States repurposed its camps at the border into indoctrination facilities where every incoming refugee must forget their Guatamalan-ness/Costa Rican-ness/Nicaraguan-ness/etc. and instead learn English and the American Way of Life and a set of skills determined by the US government so that they can be a "productive" member of society, before they are allowed into the country. I suspect that people here would be falling over themselves to label it genocide, then, and all these distinctions between real genocide and cultural genocide would be thrown out the window in a heart beat.

At the end of the day what China does is much more than a series of human rights abuses. It is a crime against humanity. Considering this, whether it fits the definition of genocide perfectly or only partially is almost besides the point.

yeah lets just ignore china's pretty recent history of western powers forcing their way into their country, splitting the country up into mini fiefdoms of foreign powers, and ignoring their sovereignty. perhaps that history can shed some light on their actions on not appeasing to the demands of the west and allowing operatives with a very rich history of funding loving death squads and forcing regime changes regardless of the human cost of said country

also

at the end of the day we have very real evidence of the united states doing much more than human rights abuses in south america, iraq, and afghanistan. it is a crime against humanity. considering this, whether it fits the definition of genocide perfectly or only partially is almost besides the point.

Agrajag has issued a correction as of 23:00 on Mar 26, 2021

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:58

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

Varinn posted:

im talking about actions against states, lol. nobody gives a poo poo about pompeo being sanctioned. poo poo like what we're doing to iran

You can't really do broad sanctions against nuclear states. It's why you've only seen individual sanctions for China and Iran

# ? Mar 26, 2021 22:58

Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

Agrajag posted:

yeah lets just ignore china's pretty recent history of western powers forcing their way into their country, splitting the country up into mini fiefdoms of foreign powers, and ignoring their sovereignty. perhaps that history can shed some light on their actions on not appeasing to the demands of the west and allowing operatives with a very rich history of funding loving death squads and forcing regime changes regardless of the human cost of said country

at the end of the day we have very real evidence of the united states doing much more than human rights abuses in south america, iraq, and afghanistan. it is a crime against humanity.

cspam: a known bastion of both english empire and imperial japan supporters

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:00

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

I know what you mean contemporary stuff but like... Genghis Khan just to start with.

America is a baby and has done plenty to instill itself as a warcrime champion in its short time but... like... let's not get silly here with the history

lmao you think genghis khan is chinese

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:01

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

This thread rules.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:01

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

Me a genius D&D poster: Hey you know all these things that were debunked earlier in the thread, what if they're all true.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:01

Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

AnimeIsTrash posted:

This thread rules.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:02

John Charity Spring: Nov 4, 2009; SCREEEEE

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

I know what you mean contemporary stuff but like... Genghis Khan just to start with.

America is a baby and has done plenty to instill itself as a warcrime champion in its short time but... like... let's not get silly here with the history

Genghis Khan, famous Chinese person

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:02

exmarx: Feb 18, 2012; The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.

THS posted:

i tend to frontload �whataboutism� to slap down any notion of �we have to DO something about this� - maybe im not giving people here enough credit but for americans, every discussion about the abuses of another state needs to begin with the absolute understanding that the US is the great monstrous evil empire of the world, should never be encouraged to sanction or otherwise take action on an issue, and is absolutely notorious for making up poo poo and funding disinformation

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:02

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

John Charity Spring posted:

Genghis Khan, famous Chinese person

the great wall of china famously built by genghis khan

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:03

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

I know what you mean contemporary stuff but like... Genghis Khan just to start with.

amazing

Genghis Khan, famous leader of the Mongol horde of Mongolia

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:03

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Admiral Ray posted:

What? No it doesn't. My assumption of the worst case scenario is based on the fact that we already know China engages in human rights abuses, so why wouldn't they engage in something worse? I don't grant the government of China special dispensation just because they aren't the US. If they want to prove they aren't committing crimes against humanity, let them prove it.

i mean wouldnt this principle mean you should credulously believe iraq has wmds or iran is about to nuke israel or qadaffi is about to butcher civilians or that morales stole the election

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:04

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010

Agrajag posted:

lmao you think genghis khan is chinese

I didn't call him Chinese but he was in a literal sense a Chinese emperor and posthumously recognized as one

Look it's loving nebulous but if you're giving that one then I think the US gets a pass up to 1776 at least

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:05

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

at least say kublai since he founded the yuan

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:06

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

I know what you mean contemporary stuff but like... Genghis Khan just to start with.

America is a baby and has done plenty to instill itself as a warcrime champion in its short time but... like... let's not get silly here with the history

looks like we have a roc diehard here, what with the assertion that all mongolia is rightfully part of china

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

I didn't call him Chinese but he was in a literal sense a Chinese emperor and posthumously recognized as one

oh my god you doubled down lmfao

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:06

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

I didn't call him Chinese but he was in a literal sense a Chinese emperor and posthumously recognized as one

Look it's loving nebulous but if you're given that one then I think the US gets a pass up to 1776 at least

bro i was talking about the history of the poo poo the cia has done in south america and all the cold war poo poo etc etc

you do know the cia is responsible for all the brutal dictators and death squads in south america right? also the us is directly responsible for the dire conditions of many south american countries to this day

Agrajag has issued a correction as of 23:09 on Mar 26, 2021

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:06

exmarx: Feb 18, 2012; The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

I didn't call him Chinese but he was in a literal sense a Chinese emperor and posthumously recognized as one

Look it's loving nebulous but if you're giving that one then I think the US gets a pass up to 1776 at least

you're giving china being conquered as an example of atrocities being carried out by china! you clown!

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:08

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

let me tell you how invading another country and installing yourself on the throne by force means that all the atrocities you also did halfway across the globe become the fault of the people you conquered

pretty good racket, that

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:08

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Thorn Wishes Talon posted:

I only post in the Doomsday econ thread so I hope it's okay if I share my two cents here.

We don't know what is really happening in Xinjiang because the Chinese government is refusing to allow independent international journalists and NGOs to go in to investigate and document the practices. That is literally the only reason, and it makes no sense to use it as the basis for hesitating to call it genocide because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, particularly when the only entity preventing the gathering of said evidence is the Chinese government.

Why are they adopting such a stance of aggressive stonewalling? After all, there has to be nobody in the world who wants to permanently refute these allegations of genocide more than China. Such allegations are terrible for a country's reputation and can hang like a black cloud over any other endeavor they might wish to pursue in the international arena.

People here constantly (and correctly) bash the Biden administration for refusing to allow lawyers into the camps at the US border and generally failing to be much more transparent when it comes to how refugees are treated. But it seems those same people are willing to resort to all sorts of mental gymnastics to avoid holding China to the same standards. Sure, there might be some reluctant admissions that China may be "too heavy handed" or they might be committing a few human rights abuses here and there, but there's a substantial and very noticeable amount of sympathizing with China. Why? What makes China deserve this type of benefit of the doubt? I mean yes, this is the leftist subforum, but when did leftists become fascist sympathizers?

I don't know why there needs to be a consensus on the definition of genocide among posters for there to be moderation, because these forums don't exist in a vacuum. The term has a well-recognized and widely accepted meaning in international circles:

And you know what? We know for a fact that the bolded one is happening. We know because Chinese officials have themselves confirmed half of it � that birth rates amongst Uyghur women in Xinjiang have plummeted. They of course denied that this was due to forced sterilizations, but one must ask if there's a meaningful difference between forced sterilizations, and imposing conditions on these women such that they must avoid getting pregnant at all costs, to the point where many are willing to undergo "voluntary" sterilization if they want to have any hope of meeting the conditions of their release (if they are even given a chance to try getting pregnant in the first place � we don't know if they are allowed to fraternize with men). Now, intent is a requisite of the "genocide" label, so you might ask, is the prevention of births the intent of the Chinese government? Who knows � the Chinese government won't let us independently interview the women ourselves. I'm sure the CPP is loving the fact that these women are learning Chinese and producing widgets instead of pumping out little Uyghur babies, though.

Putting all that aside, those refusing to call the treatment of Uyghurs "genocide" on the basis that "they are just re-education camps" should ask themselves what their reaction would be if the United States repurposed its camps at the border into indoctrination facilities where every incoming refugee must forget their Guatamalan-ness/Costa Rican-ness/Nicaraguan-ness/etc. and instead learn English and the American Way of Life and a set of skills determined by the US government so that they can be a "productive" member of society, before they are allowed into the country. I suspect that people here would be falling over themselves to label it genocide, then, and all these distinctions between real genocide and cultural genocide would be thrown out the window in a heart beat.

At the end of the day what China does is much more than a series of human rights abuses. It is a crime against humanity. Considering this, whether it fits the definition of genocide perfectly or only partially is almost besides the point.

IS China adopting a stance of aggressive stonewalling? I know that UN inspectors are formally allowed in, though they complain of being followed by police. It's not really true that the region is a black box.

Separately, does China has a long history of genocide against the Han people, who have long been subject to childbirth restrictions?

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:10

exmarx: Feb 18, 2012; The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.

Agrajag posted:

bro i was talking about the history of the poo poo the cia has done in south america and all the cold war poo poo etc etc

good soldier svejk will tell you that those are examples of native american atrocities, actually

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:10

Gringostar: Nov 12, 2016; Morbid Hound

Raskolnikov38 posted:

at least say kublai since he founded the yuan

technically it could be argued that genghis khan played a significant role with the chinese population as well

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:10

studio mujahideen: May 3, 2005

When the Puerto Ricans dropped the bomb on Nagasaki, the world wept.

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:11

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010

Alright alright alright my bad
Action done while conquered is unfair turnabout

and given that I have now been conquered for my ignorance I expect unprecedented mercy

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:12

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Gringostar posted:

technically it could be argued that genghis khan played a significant role with the chinese population as well

well then we have to decided if the liao/jurchens or the song had the mandate of heaven

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:13

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

Outer Mongolia, aka Mongolia, was a province of China up until 1911 when they declared independence; China eventually recognized them in '46 after pressure from Stalin but the total country was split with the PRC taking 'inner Mongolia'. You could easily argue that Mongolia should be treated like Tibet, Taiwan, etc and be considered a rogue Chinese state, however.

The only reason they're a separate state is because of Soviet intervention and backing; a 'Soviet Colony State', if you will

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:15

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 05:57

oxsnard: Oct 8, 2003

Agrajag posted:

yeah lets just ignore china's pretty recent history of western powers forcing their way into their country, splitting the country up into mini fiefdoms of foreign powers, and ignoring their sovereignty. perhaps that history can shed some light on their actions on not appeasing to the demands of the west and allowing operatives with a very rich history of funding loving death squads and forcing regime changes regardless of the human cost of said country

also

at the end of the day we have very real evidence of the united states doing much more than human rights abuses in south america, iraq, and afghanistan. it is a crime against humanity. considering this, whether it fits the definition of genocide perfectly or only partially is almost besides the point.

but again this is all based on "what about the US?" There are zero cspam regulars who think america is good, or there shouldn't be and they would deserve mockery and/or bans for posting "actually america is good" memes. You can think that the US is worse than China without turning it into "china is good"

# ? Mar 26, 2021 23:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > C-SPAM moderation and Xinjiang: read rules in op

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