|
Slavvy posted:And it's SO TIRING. I recently got my mountain bike up and running and my first thought was "was it always this hard to go uphill?" Thankfully I'm finally lifting again and dropping that quarantine weight, but pedaling an entry-level mountain bike up a decent hill is feeling a lot harder than I remembered.
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 22:24 |
|
|
Slavvy posted:How many of you 'know' how to ride a bicycle but haven't tried for years? It turns out it isn't like riding a bike at all, I didn't fall over or anything but it's impossibly wobbly, you have to death grip the bars full-time because there's nowhere to put your legs and the brakes are hideous. And it's SO TIRING. I tried to ride a bike again early in the pandemic after having not really done it for probably 10 years and it was almost impossible to me. It probably didn't help that like I got a bike that had sort of skinny tires compared to the mountain bikes and chunky tires I was used to growing up, but boy howdy. The bit about freaking out about losing the front is certainly something I had never really thought about and does explain a bit for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 19:39
|
|
|
I still have that hang up, and its the biggest thing I need to work on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:Imo how much you care about car driving is a much more powerful determinant of how you do. I've found good car drivers are very difficult to deprogram because they've spent years practicing the 'wrong' way to do things as far as bikes are concerned. They're also insanely paranoid about losing the front in ways that you physically can't/are extremely unlikely to, it takes ages to convince them you can turn in at any speed and it won't suddenly sledge for no reason cause bike tire loading doesn't work like they think it does. Can you give us some more examples of "wrong" bike things good car drivers tend to do? This is quite interesting. Not riding the clutch is an obvious one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 22:15
|
|
|
This all made me go get my wife's old pushbike out of the shed and pump the tires up, and holy poo poo lol I can barely stay upright on it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
I'd love to hear some tire cornering stuff too, there have been a few times I've tipped in and felt very unsteady. I'm almost certain my rear shocks are goners, but I don't know if it's tires or suspension making me feel a little dodgy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
First time I got on a road bicycle was surreal since I hadn't ridden a bicycle for years, but had ridden a motorbike continuously for about 10 and my ride was the 1250 bandit at the time. The lightness and speed of the handlebars was quite unnerving for about 20 minutes. The weird part was when I next rode my bandit a few weeks later it felt like an unstable boat for a while until I mentally partitioned the difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle. It's like my subconscious chucked a wobbly because it only had space for controls of one two wheeled vehicle and I kept loving with it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2021 23:18
|
|
|
Sounds like it's almost an "uncanny valley" of control affinity for two-wheelers. Close, but different enough to make a rider uneasy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 00:20
|
|
|
Carth Dookie posted:First time I got on a road bicycle was surreal since I hadn't ridden a bicycle for years, but had ridden a motorbike continuously for about 10 and my ride was the 1250 bandit at the time. The lightness and speed of the handlebars was quite unnerving for about 20 minutes. The weird part was when I next rode my bandit a few weeks later it felt like an unstable boat for a while until I mentally partitioned the difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle. It's like my subconscious chucked a wobbly because it only had space for controls of one two wheeled vehicle and I kept loving with it. I was a daily bike commuter pre-pandemic and regularly put 1000+ miles a year on a bicycle. When I recently started riding a motorcycle, I found that counter-steering and cornering came pretty naturally to me, but managing the weight of the motorcycle is still pretty challenging. It definitely feels a bit floaty and boat-like at low speeds. Feeling the whole motorcycle rock forward under braking loads was unnerving at first. Also breaking bicycle habits on a motorcycle is annoying, like walking your bike forward at a stop. quote:Sounds like it's almost an "uncanny valley" of control affinity for two-wheelers. Close, but different enough to make a rider uneasy. Definitely felt that way for me. I fully intend to keep cycling and motorcycling all summer. Hope the uneasiness goes away.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 03:19
|
|
|
Carth Dookie posted:First time I got on a road bicycle was surreal since I hadn't ridden a bicycle for years, but had ridden a motorbike continuously for about 10 and my ride was the 1250 bandit at the time. The lightness and speed of the handlebars was quite unnerving for about 20 minutes. The weird part was when I next rode my bandit a few weeks later it felt like an unstable boat for a while until I mentally partitioned the difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle. It's like my subconscious chucked a wobbly because it only had space for controls of one two wheeled vehicle and I kept loving with it. It might be! I'm not a neuroscientist, but I saw this video a couple years ago which I thought was interesting. I apologize for posting viral-y feel-good content. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 I ride my bicycle almost every day and honestly probably more hours per week/month than my motorcycle. I don't have any problems with crossover or "oh yeah" going from one to the other (code switching, if you will). I do think riding a motorcycle is entirely more dynamically complex, however, even if the physics are essentially the same. I'm surprised someone can learn to ride a motorcycle without knowing how to ride a bike within the confines of an MSF course, but maybe the whole engine thing lets you get to self-stablizing speeds more easily. I wouldn't recommend it, though...
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 03:47
|
|
|
Steakandchips posted:Can you give us some more examples of "wrong" bike things good car drivers tend to do? This is quite interesting. Disclaimer: I am basing this on about half a dozen people I've known who went from boy racer cars to bikes, plus conversations with a whole bunch of smarter people than me. Car drivers tend to hammer the brakes on, but don't brake very hard. They often lock the rear and most aren't afraid to. They seem to fear tucking the front and might be used to powerful, binary-feeling brakes and heaps of momentum. They almost always brake in a straight line. They almost always brake far too much for a given corner. Car drivers expect to brake, coast through the turny part, then hammer the gas on the exit. They tend toward very v-shaped lines. It's difficult to convince them that the turning part is super important on bikes. I guess in a car turning is just a matter of yanking the wheel in the right direction, wait till the car is pointing where you want to go and control it using the throttle. They find it hard to get on the throttle super early, stay at a steady rpm and roll on smoothly to match the lean; it's the addition of that extra parameter that imo elevates bikes above cars even before you get into the handing effects the meatsack can exert directly. As mentioned before, they have difficulty accepting that the bike is rolling when they push on the bars, not (really) steering, because they're used to a handling paradigm where entering a corner too quickly causes understeer. So as any learner does, they interpret a psychological limitation as a perception of grip loss and tend to struggle to enter corners really quickly/exceeding a given psychological lean angle limit. Because they're trained to expect the front tyres to give way above a certain entry speed and bikes just don't work like that (mostly). Car drivers have difficulty accepting you can't Just Sit There and have to actively participate in the cornering process, they tend to be amazed at the forces your core strength has to deal with routinely, they tend to be surprised you have to use your legs and they tend to potato-sack up against the tank with straight arms, but so do most other people. They have difficulty accepting that you don't need arm strength or really any force on the bars at all until you're expert level on a face ripping bike. And finally: they usually think 100hp isn't much to start on and are terrible at correlating paper specs with real life speed. Midjack posted:Sounds like it's almost an "uncanny valley" of control affinity for two-wheelers. Close, but different enough to make a rider uneasy. When I rode my hornet 900 years ago, after riding a cbr 125 to death daily, it felt incredibly soggy, slow to respond and like it had a dead spot in the middle of the steering. But I could also keenly perceive the anti squat effect and stability of the bike like never before, because their near-abscence on the 125 made my hyper-aware of the bike's chassis behavior at any given time (terrifying contigos didn't help).
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 04:14
|
|
|
Toe Rag posted:I'm surprised someone can learn to ride a motorcycle without knowing how to ride a bike within the confines of an MSF course, but maybe the whole engine thing lets you get to self-stablizing speeds more easily. I'd honestly be more surprised if an adult with any sense of balance at all couldn't learn the controls and basic maneuvers with a couple of days of professional instruction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 04:22
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:Disclaimer: I am basing this on about half a dozen people I've known who went from boy racer cars to bikes, plus conversations with a whole bunch of smarter people than me. Taking notes on this since "boy racer cars" is an accurate description of my last 17 years of ownership, though I did have a solid week of high performance driving instruction eons ago and was introduced to threshold braking, trail braking, corner lines, etc. I admittedly don't use all that to the fullest extent on the street, and it's been a while since that class so I'll have to relearn what I forgot and then apply it in the motorcycle environment. But at least it won't be brand new. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 04:39
|
|
|
I'm in a weird spot because what Slavvy said is what I'm currently experiencing and figuring out as a car -> motorcycle person; however, it's more that I have zero experience with being on 2 wheels going 45mph than it is just pure car habits. I drive/drove a Miata, did a bunch of track days, did wheel-to-wheel even, so the paradigm of braking only in a straight line doesn't really apply because that's where the time is. I did ride my bicycle a bunch in college and rode it as fast as I could, so I have a decent amount of 2 wheel experience and I aced the MSF; however, there's a slight difference of skinny rear end 700c tires on an aluminum frame versus a motorcycle with suspension travel. The last few rides I've made it a point to just send it when going into corners: don't over slow, keep my eyes up and out at where I want to go, and to roll on the throttle. The first time I made a conscious effort to do it, on the exit I was like "oh poo poo, I get it". Slavvy's spot on about locking up the rear brake: idgaf. I was doing braking exercises in an empty parking lot and didn't realize that the rear was crab walking a bit and leaving skidmarks. In my defense, it was a sealed asphalt lot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2021 07:31
|
|
|
Every year I pull my road bike out of the shed and every year I eat a face full of asphalt as I have inevitably forgotten how to unclip my riding cleats over the winter. You think dropping your motorcycle is embarrassing, try pedalling up to a stop sign and flailing around as you flop over because you forgot how not to be physically attached to your bike.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 03:10
|
|
|
The first year I rode clipless pedals on a pedal bike, I slow motion fell at a red light and fell into the car next to me. It was embarrassing but once you feel that slow motion tipping point there's no coming back from it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 09:48
|
|
|
Had a friend who broke his wrist that way. First day at new job, new city, and with a pack of other bike commuters at the bottom of a hill in San Francisco. New clippy-shoes, not well calibrated.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 13:18
|
|
|
I'm surprised that so many riders here felt weird transitioning from motorcycle to bike. I ride a hardtail 29er mountain bike and also motorcycles and feel like each has made me better in the other though I have eaten poo poo trying to emulate motorcycle lean angles with the bike in street riding. The MV feels like a big motorcycle but the KTM RC390 feels like a big mountain bike because it's so light and small.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 18:50
|
|
|
29er hardtail rider myself and I agree with this. I went from motorcycles to the mtb and felt that the braking and weight balance techniques transferred well. It hurts a lot less when you lowside an mtb, though. Some people use clipins on mtb and I think that is sheer lunacy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 19:08
|
|
|
I'll throw in my two cents. I grew up racing and riding bmx bikes in my teens. I kept riding into my 20s (mostly street and dirt jumps) but I started getting hurt and switched over to road cycling. I did road cycling for about 10 years before moving out to Washington where I got into motorcycles/dirt bikes. We visited my brother in law two years ago in Park City and he took me out on my first mountain bike ride and after 20 minutes I was hitting jumps and tossing that thing around pretty good. I think the muscle memory was always there and I don't notice a difference going back and forth between bikes and motorcycles. A lot of the same principles exist in both but the biggest difference is the weight of the vehicle. Weight shifting, body position, braking balance etc all still apply. I did notice how much I tend to rely on engine braking when I was mountain biking though and it wasn't available. The only thing that gets me is my brain still associates the right hand lever as a rear brake because thats how it is on bicycles which is what my brain defaults to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 21:23
|
|
|
What I'm getting out of this is that pushbike experience is irrelevant and the only salient factor is how often you ride pushbikes and how much of an unfit gently caress you are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:What I'm getting out of this is that pushbike experience is irrelevant and the only salient factor is how often you ride pushbikes and how much of an unfit gently caress you are. Braking, steering is largely the same.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 21:58
|
|
|
Coydog posted:29er hardtail rider myself and I agree with this. I went from motorcycles to the mtb and felt that the braking and weight balance techniques transferred well. It hurts a lot less when you lowside an mtb, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 22:08
|
|
|
Not operating skills per se, but I think people who bike commute or ride bicycles a lot in traffic are more familiar with the feeling of invisibility and vulnerability, which should transfer to motorbikes. Then again there's a lot of complete loving dimwits on bicycles in traffic, just as there are motorcyclists.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 22:11
|
|
|
if the bicyclists i see on my commute are anything to go by, they are more of a danger to themselves and others on a moto. blowing through stop signs and red lights like retards in the city
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 22:24
|
|
|
Verman posted:The only thing that gets me is my brain still associates the right hand lever as a rear brake because thats how it is on bicycles which is what my brain defaults to. That was never a problem for me, because on mtb you use the rear brake far more than the front. So the "important" brake lever is still in the same spot between motorcycles and bicycles. Yuns posted:I use the clipless pedals that work with cleated shoes because it makes me so much more efficient in climbing. It is the same reason I stuck with a hardtail. I'd rather have less weight and more energy transfer to the ground on the climbs and deal with some extra bouncing on the descents. Also it makes bunny hopping insanely easy. I'll concede that this is likely the case for hill climbs and I've personally wanted clips for downhills that are really rough. I tend to have a hard time staying on the pedals through hard bumpy bits. Then again, I'm still unfit enough that on hill climbs I'll just stall out and need to get my feet off fast.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2021 23:47
|
|
|
Coydog posted:That was never a problem for me, because on mtb you use the rear brake far more than the front. So the "important" brake lever is still in the same spot between motorcycles and bicycles. This works if you ride on road a lot where you're not using your rear brake often but on dirt the same rules for MTB apply as well and you use the rear the most. Early on when I was dirt biking I struggled with grabbing the front brake too much and had to tell myself to use the rear. It took some time to get used to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 00:00
|
|
|
Aren't american bicycle brakes backwards? AFAIK all the bicycles I've ridden had the front brake on the right. But I could very well be completely wrong because they're engineless and dumb.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 00:08
|
|
|
Yes, American bicycles have the rear brake on the right hand in the misguided idea that the rear brake is the important one. Or possibly out of fear of big American lawsuits when some moron hamfists it going down a hill and goes over the bars. Or both. I have been swapping my brakes to the proper motorcycle/european side since I was a teenager
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 00:11
|
|
|
Wow, if you asked me yesterday what brakes were what on a bicycle I would have just assumed they mirrored motorcycle brakes. I haven't been an a bicycle in too long, apparently.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 00:27
|
|
|
Sagebrush posted:Yes, American bicycles have the rear brake on the right hand in the misguided idea that the rear brake is the important one. Or possibly out of fear of big American lawsuits when some moron hamfists it going down a hill and goes over the bars. Or both. lol same. always have to warn people when I lend out my e bikes for funsies (plus they'll do 28mph+  )
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 00:49
|
|
|
ImplicitAssembler posted:Braking, steering is largely the same.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 01:17
|
|
|
I've done a massive poo poo ton of cycling and after getting a grasp of the hand clutch was able to shred on a Honda Grom right off the bat. I had to get used to having to use a lot of force to counter-steer when I rode a bigger bike at speed. On my Cervelo if you think about turning it practically reads your mind. Since I'm primarily a road rider and 95% of the time NEVER use the rear brake I assumed it was the same for street motos and avoided using it. I now have a better understanding of when to use the rear brake on motos though. numberoneposter fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 01:45
|
|
|
I use the rear brakes on cruisers and big heavy motorcycles in conjunction with the front to stop but on sportbikes I only use the rear to settle the suspension and to hold on hills (oh and occasionally drag it for super low speed maneuvering).
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 03:20
|
|
|
There's a pretty straightforward correlation between weight bias and rear brake effectiveness. Cruisers have most of their weight on the rear tyre even when braking, while sportbikes have reached an absurd level of front-bias that makes the rear useless for slowing down. Still a super useful tool for other stuff though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 04:09
|
|
|
There's no worse feeling than going for the Layer Dan Lever but your bike just stops instead of sliding away from danger. That's why you gotta know your bike and prepare for the Slide not the Ride. edit: oh no I forgot I was in the no shitposting thread. New Riders please use both brakes to stop and practice using the right amount of force when doing emergency stops to develop good muscle memory. And Don't Target Fixate. Coydog fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Mar 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 17:31
|
|
|
So just picked up a new bike last week after a few years of not riding. I'm not necessarily a "new" rider but I'm still a novice. Something I've noticed that I'm in the habit of doing is coasting with the clutch in through low speed corners, like a 90 degree turn at an intersection going ~20mph. I know this is bad. Is the proper thing to be doing is getting to the correct speed/gear before I hit the corner and keep steady throttle through the corner? Is it bad to use a touch of rear brake or clutch to smooth it out a bit?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 13:32
|
|
|
I have a question I should probably know the answer to by now as well. I've been riding a year and a half now, but never really put much thought into the setup of my new bike (SV650) when I got it 6 months ago. A friend pointed out the other day I ride with my toes out quite a bit and I'm going to catch them on the ground if I'm not careful. I'd never really thought about it, but it turn out they are sitting against the end of the gear lever on one side, and probably the brake on the other. I assume I should adjust both levers down? The brake seems obvious (I think!), but I was less sure about the gear lever. Is the actual problem that my feet are too far forwards on the footpegs? The peg tends to be sitting against the front of the heel of my boot. Stupid question, but here we are!
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 13:46
|
|
|
In general when you’re headed into a corner, you want to be setting up for the corner by braking and selecting the proper gear simultaneously, which involves rev matching to not upset the bike too much. Once you’re set up from that regard, it’s maintenance throttle only throughout the corner until it’s time to accelerate out. It’s not the worst thing to make mid-corner adjustments with a touch of brake or throttle, but shifting whole gears is more than a little adjustment. If you find yourself needing to shift or significantly brake while in a corner, it’s generally the setup portion that needs to be adjusted and you’ve come in too hot or braked too much up front. It’s equal parts technique, muscle memory, rhythm and experience
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 13:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 22:24 |
|
|
Megabook posted:I have a question I should probably know the answer to by now as well. I've been riding a year and a half now, but never really put much thought into the setup of my new bike (SV650) when I got it 6 months ago. A friend pointed out the other day I ride with my toes out quite a bit and I'm going to catch them on the ground if I'm not careful. I'd never really thought about it, but it turn out they are sitting against the end of the gear lever on one side, and probably the brake on the other. I assume I should adjust both levers down? The brake seems obvious (I think!), but I was less sure about the gear lever. Is the actual problem that my feet are too far forwards on the footpegs? The peg tends to be sitting against the front of the heel of my boot. Yeah, just stop pointing your toes out. Then adjust your levers however works to fit that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 15:25
|
|
