500excf type r posted:

Do your research and know what you want before you ever walk in the door? It's the same as buying anything else really.

Oysters Autobio posted:

other guy really explained the profit margins at work, but my post was more about how in fact, buying a car is not the same as anything else really.

Think about every little action that's done to you in order to manipulate you, psychologically stress you to buy from the moment you get in. Yes, any other buying experience has advertising, sales etc. to influence you, but the car buying experience is special because of how the interaction is taken to a psychotic level. The back-and-forth game of "okay let me go to my sales manager" and the constant non-stop gaslighting ("oh no, I couldn't give you that deal, it's just not possible, that's not normal"). The focusing on the bi-weekly price to get you to buy more, all of the pieces of "closing" the deal.

Then once you "close" the deal with the sales rep after endlessly being talked to like you're stupid and that deal isn't possible, and before you've actually signed anything, they give this big psychological reward of "congratulations! you've bought a car! yay!, go ring that sales bell!" even though the actual negotiation isn't over and nothing is signed because you have to go to the F&I desk and again be pushed stupid warranties you don't need ("Listen, this is about SAFETY, don't you LOVE YOUR CHILD? Modern cars have so many gizwidgets and gadgets now with electronics that could break AT ANY TIME, you NEED this extended warranty"). The guy goes on this big spiel about how transparent he is and how he's just here to advise you on your sale, nothing else (either he has to say that because of legislation or because he thinks it makes him sound more trustworthy).

I made a deal on my last purchase with the sales person, it was clear black and white (for example, one item was free winter tires). I go to the back with the F&I guy, sit through a 2 hour warranty discussion even after being asked if I'm interested and me saying no, and finally get the actual purchase agreement to sign. The manipulation was even to the very end, F&I guy says "okay this is how you read this, you need to read this from the BOTTOM-UP, see, here's your bi-weekly price". I then go and read it from the top-down like any sane person would to see how the numbers add up to the total, and I can see that they put in the winter tires as a COSTED ITEM, not as a free item. Then they talk on the stupid $1000 "document" fee.

First when I pointed it out, without missing a beat the F&I guy says "oh no, those are free, the computer puts it on the purchase agreement for tracking" (even though its black and white because you can see the total price go up), then he goes back to the sales rep, sales rep comes back and gaslights me for another 10 minutes and pretends that I'm mistaken and no, that's not what was agreed, and blah blah blah. Finally, the manager comes in, also goes through a big spiel over how he just can't do that deal. I ask about the doc fee and he says he absolutely has to charge it, has no choice, he even says "I couldn't even get this doc fee taken off for my daughter when she came in!", so I just ask for him to take it off the total price then and leave the doc fee in place. He then goes on again with this big spiel about how its just not possible, how his computer won't even let him put in this price. He then goes on this big act, spins his monitor around and is like "Look, watch when I put in the figures that it doesn't work". Everything adds up fine, and then he turns around finally and says "okay for customer service I can give you this deal, because I want to make a good relationship".

The only saving grace for me was that now post-COVID, you can actually practically buy a car online, so you can go through an online calculator and get a fully costed quote (where I'm in, the law states that they have to advertise "all-in pricing", so whatever the total is has to be the total with any dumb fees attached at the end). If I didn't have that to show them that I could just walk away and do this online without the hassle (and for cheaper then their "deal"), I would have been screwed.

This isn't haggling, this isn't negotiation, it's basically the Milgram experiment operationalized into a business. What was funny, once the papers were signed, the whole experience went 180 and was completely pleasant, the F&I guy was nice to chat with once he wasn't on the "sale" anymore. All my interactions after that were fantastic, very straightforward and transparent.

Seriously, watch any interview on YT with a former car sales person, or watch a doc (like that This American Life podcast episode) to see how they actually strategize about this stuff and talk about customers, it sounds like they are con artists planning a scam. In the podcast, they interview this one sales guy who is absolutely psychotic, who talks about Sun Tzu the Art of War, and predators in the wild and all this poo poo to explain what he does.

500excf type r posted:

I have bought a bunch of cars and motorcycles from dealers over the years and every time I went in, I knew exactly what I wanted and the in-person visit was just to test drive and buy it.

There's dumb poo poo involved with the financing, sure, but you don't have to say yes to any of their poo poo. It's their job to sell it and they make it hard to say no but there is nothing forcing buyers to be uninformed about their tens of thousands of dollars purchases in advance.

500excf type r posted:

Failed Imagineer posted:

Can't you just buy a car secondhand off some guy , get a better deal and save yourself all that bullshit

500excf type r posted:

Carthag Tuek posted:

got it, there is no such thing as unethical business practices. it's 100% your own fault if you get scammed.

Failed Imagineer posted:

Can't you just buy a car secondhand off some guy , get a better deal and save yourself all that bullshit

500excf type r posted:

Everyone is trying to eat. Profits are trying to be made. It sucks but that's the way it is and if you know and prepare for that, you give yourself less of a chance of becoming a victim to predatory practices.

The Bloop posted:

You're being a complete dipshit if you're going to keep pretending the selling and buying of a TV from Best Buy and a car from a dealership are even remotely the same process

500excf type r posted:

Everyone is trying to eat. Profits are trying to be made. It sucks but that's the way it is and if you know and prepare for that, you give yourself less of a chance of becoming a victim to predatory practices.

500excf type r posted:

Ya I spend months deciding on what kind of vehicle to purchase vs hours for a tv, I definitely take spending tens of thousands of dollars more seriously than $350

The Bloop posted:

None of which is what anyone is talking about, dipshit

500excf type r posted:

Weird so what's the problem then? Should consumers not be encouraged to make informed purchases to protect themselves from the inherently predatory practices of capitalism or is being a low information person hip and cool these days

Colonel Cancer posted:

Why even buy a car when streets are literally littered with free bikes

The Bloop posted:

Most consumers CANNOT make fully informed purchases when it comes to vehicles because the entire process is intentionally obfuscated at every step.
Of course people should do their best but that doesn't make predatory processes okay and it certainly doesn't make the difference between buying a matchbox car and a real one just a matter of cost scale

500excf type r posted:

Weird so what's the problem then? Should consumers not be encouraged to make informed purchases to protect themselves from the inherently predatory practices of capitalism or is being a low information person hip and cool these days

500excf type r posted:

Everyone shopping for a car at a dealership has access to all the resources they could need to make a fully informed decision without needed financing from or through the dealer.

Being ignorant is not and should not be a badge of pride.

Perry Mason Jar posted:

What if you crumble like a granola bar when aggressive sales tactics are applied to you? You're being ableist dude, you're being real loving ableist right now.

spacetoaster posted:

Take a friend who's and aggressive rear end in a top hat (me).

500excf type r posted:

Everyone shopping for a car at a dealership has access to all the resources they could need to make a fully informed decision without needed financing from or through the dealer.

Being ignorant is not and should not be a badge of pride.

alarumklok posted:

honestly capitalism works just fine,

500excf type r posted:

Everyone shopping for a car at a dealership has access to all the resources they could need to make a fully informed decision without needed financing from or through the dealer.

Being ignorant is not and should not be a badge of pride.

The Bloop posted:

Oh I see now. You haha
You think hahaha

You think YOU had all the information when you bought a car hahahahaha

indigi posted:

to quote the philosophers of Dead Prez, "don't put me on dishes, I'm droppin them bitches, and takin all day long to mop the kitchen"

Shame Boy posted:

I used TrueCar to get a TrueCar Price that I took into the dealer and paid and it was fine

Proust Malone posted:

I was with a friend when he bought a Tesla. There was no pressure. friend said to the sales guy, “ok I think you sold me this car” almost like
he was expecting the psychological reward of ringing the sales bell mentioned above. Instead, the sales guy just said “uhh ok cool. let me walk you over to the computer here. you can fill out your information. it’s going to charge you $100 now and the rest on delivery.” It was like buying a tv at Best Buy.

Proust Malone posted:

I was with a friend when he bought a Tesla. There was no pressure. friend said to the sales guy, “ok I think you sold me this car” almost like
he was expecting the psychological reward of ringing the sales bell mentioned above. Instead, the sales guy just said “uhh ok cool. let me walk you over to the computer here. you can fill out your information. it’s going to charge you $100 now and the rest on delivery.” It was like buying a tv at Best Buy.