A Russian troll farm posted:

"Bronze Age", my rear end. This moron couldn't knap a crude stone axe, let alone alloy copper with tin

comedyblissoption posted:

like if i could summon an analogy, being skeptical of colin powell's wmd claims of iraq does not mean you support iraqi imperialism and it doesnt even necessarily mean you believe iraq conclusively does not have a wmd program or has not used wmds in atrocities in the past

Mr. Lobe posted:

Knapping is kinda hard though, to be fair

apropos to nothing posted:

its almost like when you have comrades and contacts in the chinese labor movement you have to integrate their perspectives into your understanding of chinese politics

indigi posted:

yeah this was my point as well. was WWP putting out articles about Saddam’s treatment of Kurds or saying he really does have WMDs or w/e in 2002

quote:

But we don't want to cite just the foreign imperialists. That's opportunist, to cast the foreigners in the role of villains and leave out your own capitalist bourgeoisie. No. It is the U.S. ruling class which is the ringleader of the conspiracy to unite the ruling classes of the capitalist world against the masses of oppressed everywhere.

They're telling us that a small country was invaded by another Arab country and that that is horrendous. In fact, they say, the leader of that country is as bad as Hitler himself. And it is absolutely necessary for the American people to unite behind the president and send half a million troops to stop the invasion of this small country.

And who is telling this to us? The very people who invaded the smallest of all countries, Grenada! And they never asked the United Nations if they should do it.
...
They're saying let's not have a military offensive against Iraq, let's not insist upon the withdrawal of troops from Kuwait first, let's talk it out. Sounds reasonable. But they are also saying, let's continue an economic war, an embargo and sanctions. And what does that mean?

It means that they are trying to explain to the president that a military offensive will bring about a regional revolutionary upsurge in the Arabian peninsula, will bring out all the Arab people against the U.S. It would be better, they say, to contrive a slow method of economic war, of starving the people to death, of not letting anything go in or out of the country except minor items. They're proposing a form of genocide that differs only in form. And they call it sanctions, an embargo.

But look what lies behind the word sanctions. It means a war to the death by other than military means. And they say if these methods fail, then start a military war and at the same time build up the troop movement to maximum capacity. Now how could that be a peaceful approach?

How could that possibly mean a progressive, democratic approach to ending the hostilities on a worldwide scale?

This century the United States has fought a great number of wars, large and small. Has Congress ever opposed a war? They have senators who have spoken against it, but they haven't stopped one war. Why would it be any different now?

All the more is it necessary for us to mobilize now, before the war actually starts.

Junkozeyne posted:

I would also strongly disagree with the notion that China is an imperialist country in the same vein as the US is or any european colonialist powers were.

Would you have opposed the soviet union after WW2 as an imperialist union and if so what would your opposition have accomplished besides maintaining your moral purity?

Enjoy posted:

i dont have the spoons to defend china's invasion of vietnam

Junkozeyne posted:

You don't have to defend the invasion but if your definition of imperialism is "has invaded other countries" then it might as well be retired completely.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

vietnam doing an imperialism to overthrow van thieu

Junkozeyne posted:

You don't have to defend the invasion but if your definition of imperialism is "has invaded other countries" then it might as well be retired completely.

Atrocious Joe posted:

this is a little baby take

"Vietnamese in the Mekong Delta were settlers, and the victory of socialist forces simply accelerated the settler colonial project of previous Vietnamese states. US alliances with indigenous groups in the region should be viewed in a similar way to the Kurdish forces in Syria allying with the US for self-defense against ISIS and the Assad regime."

Enjoy posted:

cuba managed not to invade anyone

Atrocious Joe posted:

this is a little baby take

"Vietnamese in the Mekong Delta were settlers, and the victory of socialist forces simply accelerated the settler colonial project of previous Vietnamese states. US alliances with indigenous groups in the region should be viewed in a similar way to the Kurdish forces in Syria allying with the US for self-defense against ISIS and the Assad regime."

Enjoy posted:

cuba managed not to invade anyone

quote:

In a long interview with Ignacio Ramonet shortly before the Cuban leader withdrew from public view due to a serious illness, Fidel Castro provided a brief remarkable survey of Cuba’s activities abroad. He underlined the well-known Cuban military presence in Angola in the seventies and eighties, which at point reached fifty-five thousand soldiers and defeated the South African army in conventional warfare involving tanks, planes, and artillery.

Castro also included lesser-known episodes of Cuban foreign policy such as support of Algeria’s independence struggle and the Cuban arms and soldiers that were sent to aid that country in its 1963 war against Morocco.

He also revealed that an entire Cuban tank brigade was stationed in Syria (facing the Golan Heights) from 1973 to 1975 after the Israeli victory in the fall 1973 Yom Kippur War.

He added that Cuban blood was shed in the (former Belgian) Congo, in the independence struggle of Guinea and Cape Verde led by Amílcar Cabral, and in Nicaragua and Grenada.

However, Castro did not mention to Ramonet anything regarding his major military intervention in the Horn of Africa, which was surpassed in size only by his intervention in Angola. Neither did he mention that in 1965 Cuba also sent troops to the Congo (Brazzaville) to train military forces that were fightingfor the independence of Portugal’s African colonies, and to Guinea to help Sekou Touré to maintain internal order and repel foreign aggression.

Enjoy posted:

cuba managed not to invade anyone

Enjoy posted:

cuba managed not to invade anyone

GalacticAcid posted:

gradenko_2000 posted:

Atrocious Joe posted:

WWP/PSL didn't condemn Saddam before the 2003 invasion. I don't think they even condemned Saddam when opposing the first Gulf War. Here's a Marcy speech from 1990 opposing war or sanctions against Iraq.

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/marcy/1990/sm901129.html

Atrocious Joe posted:

this is a little baby take

"Vietnamese in the Mekong Delta were settlers, and the victory of socialist forces simply accelerated the settler colonial project of previous Vietnamese states. US alliances with indigenous groups in the region should be viewed in a similar way to the Kurdish forces in Syria allying with the US for self-defense against ISIS and the Assad regime."

apropos to nothing posted:

its almost like when you have comrades and contacts in the chinese labor movement you have to integrate their perspectives into your understanding of chinese politics

apropos to nothing posted:

lol it’s kind of a testament to how far the socialist left in the us has fallen that the idea of having comrades and perspectives internationally can only be considered a joke. socialism being international isn’t just a slogan ya know? you wanna read their insights here’s their website https://chinaworker.info/en/ if you think they’re the cia or whatever else cool more power to you, but those are my comrades and have the privilege to speak to a few of them and it’s pretty exciting the new left that’s forming in China now despite the obstacles which are tremendous there. in any event, gently caress the mods of this and the other forums.

mila kunis posted:

the new left in china overwhelmingly supports xi. i don't think they'd post anything like this garbage



i agree that internationalism is important, which is why i'd be more interested in what the majority of chinese maoists think not cherry picked poo poo from people whose line neatly echoes state department garbage. i didn't have any bone in the ongoing arguments you have with ferrinus but i'm genuinely flabbergasted you posted that as representative of them and i'm going to be pretty skeptical of anything you post going forward.

i think their main hangout is utopia (wyzxwk.com) if you're actually curious about what they think.

GalacticAcid posted:

lol it’s an old joke article i made, i had a bunch of them

mila kunis posted:

this is the second time you brought this up




invoking internationalism to support some bullshit organization that represents nobody against the current target of the empire instead of actual chinese communists

Atrocious Joe posted:

this is a little baby take

"Vietnamese in the Mekong Delta were settlers, and the victory of socialist forces simply accelerated the settler colonial project of previous Vietnamese states. US alliances with indigenous groups in the region should be viewed in a similar way to the Kurdish forces in Syria allying with the US for self-defense against ISIS and the Assad regime."

apropos to nothing posted:

will do everything we can to build the case against war with china or any nation by the us

apropos to nothing posted:

the bullshit organization are my chinese comrades. maybe you disagree with them/us but i trust them because ive had discussions with them, read what they put out regularly, etc. which demonstrate that we have the same goals, ideas, and methods, not in the abstract but concretely. who are the "actual chinese communists?" the ccp? i think yue xin and others might disagree if anyone ever finds her to ask. what specific problem do you have with those articles? did you read any of them?

last thing ill say on it then will drop it: i am opposed to war with china, me and every comrade i know is and will do everything we can to build the case against war with china or any nation by the us because the us is the heart of global capitalism and the largest currently existing imperial power. but our comrades in china or nigeria or anywhere else are also going to do everything they can to fight for workers rights in china or nigeria or anywhere else right now too, and are going to oppose any move towards war on the ccps part as well because they are taking such actions like the escalation of border conflicts against india and the phillipines and other SE asian countries. even if a regime is opposed to the us in the moment does not mean that the workers struggles there against their own oppressors is sidelined. if youre really a proletarian internationalist that means putting forward an internationalist program, meaning a program that appeals to all workers around the world and helps unify the international working class against the capitalists. im genuinely curious what program of struggle you or anyone itt would suggest to be put forward to workers in china?

now if you think the ccp is genuinely a workers party which is leading a workers state, that is a separate debate, though my feelings should be obvious. and, as always, mods suck, free larry and the others

quote:

China: The unreal world of Xi Jinping

There is a huge and widening gap between reality and how the Chinese dictatorship presents reality. With the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Communist Party (CCP) approaching in July and China’s dictator Xi Jinping needing an endless run of “victories” to secure his position in advance of next year’s regime reshuffle, the state’s propaganda machine has gone into overdrive.

Likewise, the grotesque personality cult that has been built around Xi has reached new heights (or depths). In February, the People’s Daily mentioned Xi’s name 139 times in one article celebrating China’s “complete victory” in eradicating poverty. As we shall show, Xi’s anti-poverty campaign is yet another triumph of propaganda over reality. The extreme prickliness of Xi’s regime is revealed by the latest topic to be banned by internet censors: the Chinese character for “emerald” began to spread as a form of protest by Chinese netizens because it can also be read as “Xi dies twice”.

mila kunis posted:

https://chinaworker.info/en/2021/03/11/26735/


are you loving kidding me, do you seriously think this crap is representative of the chinese left? this is barely differentiable from raving neocon bullshit. you're not being an "internationalist" by consuming garbage that's ramping up paranaoic propaganda about china, you're being a loyal bootlicker for the american empire. just own it

indigi posted:

I thought China and India recently did a big border stand-down/deescalation? did I make that up?

quote:

India and China have completed the pull-back of troops from part of their disputed Himalayan border, a joint statement issued by the Indian defence ministry says.

Soldiers completed their withdrawal from the Pangong Tso Lake area on Saturday, according to the communiqué.

quote:

With tensions between New Delhi and Beijing easing in Ladakh, India is looking to “cautiously” approve some pending investment proposals from China, multiple sources told ThePrint.

The Narendra Modi government is planning to “speed up” Chinese investment proposals, albeit small ones pertaining primarily to the manufacturing sector...

India and China have also agreed to establish a hotline between the two ministers to resolve issues quickly, the details of which are being worked out.

mila kunis posted:

https://chinaworker.info/en/2021/03/11/26735/


are you loving kidding me, do you seriously think this crap is representative of the chinese left? this is barely differentiable from raving neocon bullshit. you're not being an "internationalist" by consuming garbage that's ramping up paranaoic propaganda about china, you're being a loyal bootlicker for the american empire. just own it

gradenko_2000 posted:

quote:

BEIJING, March 30 (Xinhua) -- China's culture watchdog has launched a nationwide campaign to inspect Internet culture and has rectified 2,163 items in violation of relevant regulations, the Ministry of Culture and Tourism said Tuesday.

Initiated in February, the campaign was mainly targeted at online cultural products containing vulgar content, money worship and those going against social moralities.

More than 30,000 inspectors have been dispatched to examine over 29,000 websites, applications and social-media accounts, said the ministry, adding that 54 cases involving Internet culture have been dealt with to date.

The ministry said it will take further steps to overhaul online comics, music and performances to remove harmful content from the online cultural market.