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yeah I will say that I played through the game on the highest difficulty(short of the one that enables permadeath) without using any weapon mods and even playing like that I still felt like I was able to choose my weapons fairly freely
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Apr 1, 2021 05:45
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IronicDongz posted:yeah I will say that I played through the game on the highest difficulty(short of the one that enables permadeath) without using any weapon mods and even playing like that I still felt like I was able to choose my weapons fairly freely I dunno, it felt to me like a lot of things were too tanky if you weren't either quickswitching or exploiting the weakness pop-ups. That and the fact that you are sort of forced to switch around by the ammo limits being incredibly low. Yes, I'm aware chainsawing is a thing, but it just isn't really fun to to be looking around the arena for something to chainsaw every 10 seconds to stay topped up. Granted it did get a lot worse in the DLCs, which were bad enough they might be coloring my opinion on the game as a whole these days.
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Apr 1, 2021 07:14
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Isaacs Alter Ego posted:The gameplay in 2016 was fantastic specifically because it let you deal with situations with whatever tools you felt were best for that situation, rather than what the game pushed you into using. Eternal prescribed each tool for each situation (complete with a totally pace-killing tutorial pop up for just about every single demon) and the game is a painful slog if you ignore those tools; there's a handful of alternate strategies that work, but often times those require exploiting some game mechanics like quick switching, rather than simply using the weapon you'd like to use and finding a way to make it effective. Yes I understand how the mechanics work and you're being unreasonable by saying "the only reason you could possibly dislike this game is if you are too stupid to understand it". What exactly would make you accept criticism as valid? Do I have to beat the entire game on Ultra-nightmare before I'm allowed to dislike it? Doom Eternal's combat is balanced, and encourages you to adapt, experiment, and use everything. i don't think the design is all that heavy-handed about what to use or how to play. use weapons/alt fires at ranges that make intuitive sense and on the relatively few enemies that maybe don't like that weapon, use the cooldown abilities when needed to recover resources like ammo, health, and armor, and toss nades to manage crowds of enemies are, IMO, all reasonable asks of the player in any FPS. there are no strict requirements other than judging the risk/reward of using the various tools in the game and acting accordingly. i think the fights with the marauders were actually restrictive, but easily cheesed, so i didn't care that much about that even if they did suck. in contrast 2016 (a great game too) gave you no reward to leave a comfort zone, which usually consisted of optimized weapons like the gauss cannon, SSG, and chaingun that worked just about everywhere. to me that was an incentive to use the same tactics over and over, even if you didn't necessarily have to, everything else wasn't as good. the "restrictiveness" complaints about Eternal almost seem hallucinated into the game design by various youtuber(s) quoting one of the developers in an unfavorable light. it's not consistent with what's actually there or trivial like complaining about having to jump too much in mario. there are valid criticisms of the game, just not the ones that always seem to crop up. i recommend changing the default weapon binds to letter keys near WSAD, using the chainsaw more than you would in 2016, and keeping the difficulty at normal. i didn't find the higher difficulties enjoyable at all, but maybe some do.
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Apr 1, 2021 12:14
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my steam library looks kinda different today for some reason 
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Apr 1, 2021 13:19
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MMF Freeway posted:my steam library looks kinda different today for some reason No, I think that's what it always looked like, you must be misremembering.
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Apr 1, 2021 13:27
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Doom Eternal's combat is balanced, and encourages you to adapt, experiment, and use everything. i don't think the design is all that heavy-handed about what to use or how to play. use weapons/alt fires at ranges that make intuitive sense and on the relatively few enemies that maybe don't like that weapon, use the cooldown abilities when needed to recover resources like ammo, health, and armor, and toss nades to manage crowds of enemies are, IMO, all reasonable asks of the player in any FPS. there are no strict requirements other than judging the risk/reward of using the various tools in the game and acting accordingly. i think the fights with the marauders were actually restrictive, but easily cheesed, so i didn't care that much about that even if they did suck. Wholeheartedly agree with all of this, though would say Ultra Violence is the peak difficulty level once you get into the flow of the game. You can make a mistake or two then without it utterly crushing you, as Nightmare mode does.
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Apr 1, 2021 13:35
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Doom Eternal's big mistake is overtutorializing in the wrong direction. It's hedging on its design choices and constantly reassuring the player "we're not trying to be Sekiro/Bloodborne/Souls/Whatever, honest!!!" but in the process it's basically giving the player bad information, or at least misleading the player into the wrong mindset. If in Sekiro, instead of dropping subtle hints about which tools can be helpful to beat a boss by eavesdropping on nearby enemies, a popup came up at the start of the Horse boss fight and said "Use the the Firecrackers to stun the Horse boss" I bet people would be complaining that there's only one way to fight the horse boss.
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Apr 1, 2021 13:51
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If I had to describe the quality of og Doom, in contraposition of modern shooters, I'd say that Doom is a game where the star of the show is the level designer. He/She is the one how the flow of the level works, how hard are the secrets, where are the fights, where there are imps hidden in a closet, where to put each piece of armor and health and ammo, therefore making some areas harder and other easier, where to put fights where the player is locked, where the action goes from room to room freely, etc. In more modern shooters, I feel like this figure is less important. Levels are a medium to the goal, not the goal itself. They are a thing to put nice vistas in, or to make the player feel immersed into the world, or something the player traverse as a way to reach the next milestone to the story. Or a place to show off badass scripted sequences (hi CoD). And of course there is combat in the level, but it feels less dependent of the level design itself. Like the combat has been layered on top of the level, and it kinda plays independently of said level design. The fact the person who designs the geometry of the level is the same who designs the enemy encounters in Doom is very important. In Doom the level IS the game, so if you vary the level design you vary the game. A fight in the dark against pinkies. A cyberdemon that teleports around. Sewers with toxic waste that you have to traverse. An open ended city full of shotgunners. A tight encounter with Barons with Pain Elementals that are hard to reach because moving column. A series of puzzley arenas. An area with synchronized crushers. A hunt for keys that move around. It's all possible in Doom In your average modern shooter, the level designer has less knobs to tweak and make the experience different. He doesn't have the health pickup knob, if the health is regenerated. No armor pickups, one less knob. No infight, another knob less. Realistic art design that disallows moveable sectors unlike in Doom, or teleporting enemies? You get the idea, one less knob. All enemies use automatic weapon? Another thing that makes harder to make fights different. No secrets in your game? Same. The newer Dooms aren't as bad as this strawman of 'modern shooter' I made up here, but nevertheless I feel they are games are lacking in the level design department, as they all feel very similar, which is why I wrote the previous paragraph as intro. Most levels feel similar to play, in flow/how easy or hard is to progress, the combat in all of them are focused in arenas, the arenas design also feel similar with the q3/skateboard arena design, the platforming sections separating arenas are the same too, the resource system (how you get most of your ammo, health and armor) gives one less knob to the level designer, the fights in the arena all feel similar with the same 'a bit of everything' approach.
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Apr 1, 2021 14:03
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Said much better than I ever could. It's why something like DUSK blows the nuDOOMs out of the water for me. https://twitter.com/NewBlood/status/1377612692123484161?s=20 Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 14:11
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Bathtub Cheese posted:i didn't find the higher difficulties enjoyable at all, but maybe some do. I think that's a big part of why these arguments refuse to die: how amenable the game is to "wrong" play changes dramatically as you change the difficulty level. I played through on ultraviolence (except for a couple of bosses who just did too much damage per hit) and spent far more time than I'd have liked dashing around the arena looking for one guy to chainsaw because none of the ammo I had on me would have had much of an effect on whatever was chasing me And then there are the marauders, who are so "play the right way" that they're even immune to the one-shot gently caress you weapons that were included specifically to allow players to spend a rare resource to bypass pain points Volte posted:If in Sekiro, instead of dropping subtle hints about which tools can be helpful to beat a boss by eavesdropping on nearby enemies, a popup came up at the start of the Horse boss fight and said "Use the the Firecrackers to stun the Horse boss" I bet people would be complaining that there's only one way to fight the horse boss. People do already complain about this in Sekiro, at least compared to the other From games since it doesn't have character builds or magic haveblue fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 14:20
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haveblue posted:People do already complain about this in Sekiro, at least compared to the other From games since it doesn't have character builds or magic
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Apr 1, 2021 14:29
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New Civvie delves into the mustier parts of history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfoNSN7ACtc
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Apr 1, 2021 14:37
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Dean of Doom does Sunlust. https://youtu.be/jtvS-1LM3ZE It's the video everyone's been waiting for.
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Apr 1, 2021 14:52
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Doom Eternal's problem is that it's the successor to Doom 2016. 2016 is a game where you can entirely impose your will on the enemies. You can engage in any of the mechanics that you want to and ignore the rest. Eternal expects you to participate on its terms, which is actually an entirely reasonable thing for a video game to do, but since it's skinned to look like the sequel to 2016 people expect it to play like 2016. I think the biggest problem is that the game was so adamant about having popup tutorials to tell you how to thwart specific enemies, but that's not actually very relevant -- it should have instead spent that time to emphasize how important it was to use your cooldowns. Since 2016 didn't have meaningful cooldowns you wouldn't have any reason to think this was the entire backbone of the combat loop. It's a messaging issue. The ammo thing is probably the one that gets people the most -- you have unlimited ammo, but you have to be using your chainsaw more or less off cooldown to keep it that way, rather than just stockpiling 500 chaingun ammo and then holding down the button to clear an entire fight. Instead of looking for a pile of plasma cells to restock, you're looking for an imp. If the game actually communicated to people who played 2016 (or, yknow, Doom) that that's how the ammo economy worked, it wouldn't have been an issue. Eternal is extremely good once you've recalibrated your expectations; it actually overcomes the biggest problem that I had with 2016 (arena fights are kinda boring) by ramping up the mechanical mastery required to excel, and it feels like a Dark Souls game or a character action game like Devil May Cry where at first you're struggling and dumbly slashing at enemies but once you figure it out you're dancing around and slaughtering enemies with unmatched style. I don't have a problem with the fact that it has strayed so far from classic Doom because 2016 was also straying from classic Doom in many ways and it's approaching 30 years later so loving get over it, right? The Marauder is inexcusably terrible though and betrays their own design philosophy. eta: the Spirits in the DLC where you're forced to use the microwave beam are a lovely patchwork answer to why people don't use the microwave beam although I think the possession mechanic is good. Same with the Stone Imps forcing you to use the auto-shotty. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 15:35
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Turin Turambar posted:If I had to describe the quality of og Doom, in contraposition of modern shooters, I'd say that Doom is a game where the star of the show is the level designer. He/She is the one how the flow of the level works, how hard are the secrets, where are the fights, where there are imps hidden in a closet, where to put each piece of armor and health and ammo, therefore making some areas harder and other easier, where to put fights where the player is locked, where the action goes from room to room freely, etc. Yeah, agree. I'm sure it's possible to make a fancy expensive AAA reinvention of map-centric FPS games and it'd be neat to see a major studio take a swing at it.
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Apr 1, 2021 15:45
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RyokoTK posted:I think the biggest problem is that the game was so adamant about having popup tutorials to tell you how to thwart specific enemies, but that's not actually very relevant -- it should have instead spent that time to emphasize how important it was to use your cooldowns. Since 2016 didn't have meaningful cooldowns you wouldn't have any reason to think this was the entire backbone of the combat loop. It's a messaging issue. The ammo thing is probably the one that gets people the most -- you have unlimited ammo, but you have to be using your chainsaw more or less off cooldown to keep it that way, rather than just stockpiling 500 chaingun ammo and then holding down the button to clear an entire fight. Instead of looking for a pile of plasma cells to restock, you're looking for an imp. If the game actually communicated to people who played 2016 (or, yknow, Doom) that that's how the ammo economy worked, it wouldn't have been an issue. See, I fully understand this, and I just don't like it as a design ethos. It became really obvious that all the super-weak zombies that mill around fights without posing any threat are the game equivalent of pickups, that I'm supposed to be using my fire belch to manage my armor, my chainsaw to manage my ammo, my finishers to manage my health, my off-hand grenades to manage crowd control/stuns, my crucible to rapidly dispatch key threats (excepting the only targets I would actually want to use it against, which are immune to it) and that I need to keep an eye on my various charges and timers while managing the enemy tide in order to succeed. I get it. I didn't enjoy the process that was set before me by the devs. The thing I enjoy maybe the most in first person shooters (and action game in general) is the feeling of improvisation. A small example - it always bugged me in games whenever you'd be in a vehicle turret section and, without fail, you'd pass a wooden platform that had three guys shooting at you while next to a huge red barrel of gasoline. The devs put the gas there so you could shoot it with your turret and make the guys go flying while the platform burned down, and every time I see that kind of setup I can feel the developer's intentions breathing down my neck. It's a small, stupid thing, but it's impossible to not notice after a while and it always takes me right out of whatever game I'm playing. Whenever someone talks about Doom Eternal "clicking" for them, those moments when you're locked into the flow of combat and the game is working on its intended level, those are moments I felt the least free to improvise. It felt so scripted, so choreographed, so exactly what I was intended to do, that I didn't have any fun with it. It never felt like I was overcoming some great challenge or figuring out clever tricks to get through a hard battle, instead I was managing cooldowns and counters like some tedious MMO and if I did it "correctly" the fight would end. I could see how someone would like that, but I didn't.
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Apr 1, 2021 16:51
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RyokoTK posted:Doom Eternal's problem is that it's the successor to Doom 2016. 2016 is a game where you can entirely impose your will on the enemies. You can engage in any of the mechanics that you want to and ignore the rest. Eternal expects you to participate on its terms, which is actually an entirely reasonable thing for a video game to do, but since it's skinned to look like the sequel to 2016 people expect it to play like 2016. See I don't think Eternal actually does have that much mechanical mastery required. It has a lot of physical control mastery required - but the actual combat is dead simple. I beat Eternal on UV from start to finish using the exact same tactics - run in a circle, use dash and every other cooldown ability whenever it comes off cooldown, quickswap between big guns and aim at enemies. If there's a shield, use plasma. If there's a big boy, use rockets. I could try and be fancy, using the various mechanics like sniping heads with the rifle or the plasma secondary, but every time I did the game got consistently harder. You can play Eternal on autopilot and it's the easiest way to play it. I just don't find a game that requires only muscle memory to be built to be "good" at it to be particularily interesting. It's like the worst kind of RTS dark age where APM is somehow the stat that matters or an anime fighting game with insanely complex motions and minute long touch of death combos. It's just loving boring.
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Apr 1, 2021 17:24
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DoombatINC posted:See, I fully understand this, and I just don't like it as a design ethos. It became really obvious that all the super-weak zombies that mill around fights without posing any threat are the game equivalent of pickups, that I'm supposed to be using my fire belch to manage my armor, my chainsaw to manage my ammo, my finishers to manage my health, my off-hand grenades to manage crowd control/stuns, my crucible to rapidly dispatch key threats (excepting the only targets I would actually want to use it against, which are immune to it) and that I need to keep an eye on my various charges and timers while managing the enemy tide in order to succeed. I get it. I didn't enjoy the process that was set before me by the devs. Yeah it doesn't surprise me that the Early FPS Megathread broadly doesn't like Eternal in this exact way. DatonKallandor posted:See I don't think Eternal actually does have that much mechanical mastery required. It has a lot of physical control mastery required - but the actual combat is dead simple. I beat Eternal on UV from start to finish using the exact same tactics - run in a circle, use dash and every other cooldown ability whenever it comes off cooldown, quickswap between big guns and aim at enemies. If there's a shield, use plasma. If there's a big boy, use rockets. I could try and be fancy, using the various mechanics like sniping heads with the rifle or the plasma secondary, but every time I did the game got consistently harder. You can play Eternal on autopilot and it's the easiest way to play it. I feel like you can be similarly reductive about classic Doom or most FPS games, really. All you do is stay mobile, use all your tools and abilities and kill the enemies before they kill you -- yawn. eta: like make no mistake, I totally get why people don't like Eternal, but I think people are making the whole bit about "it expects me to play the game in this exact way" to be more egregious or unusual than it actually is. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 18:02
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DatonKallandor posted:See I don't think Eternal actually does have that much mechanical mastery required. It has a lot of physical control mastery required - but the actual combat is dead simple. I beat Eternal on UV from start to finish using the exact same tactics - run in a circle, use dash and every other cooldown ability whenever it comes off cooldown, quickswap between big guns and aim at enemies. If there's a shield, use plasma. If there's a big boy, use rockets. I could try and be fancy, using the various mechanics like sniping heads with the rifle or the plasma secondary, but every time I did the game got consistently harder. You can play Eternal on autopilot and it's the easiest way to play it. The biggest skill barrier in DE is purely mechanical - learning how to manage your ridiculous number of binds for weapons, cooldowns and grenade switching. The dash, the hook and big floaty double jumps - even moreso with air control rune - make space control largely irrelevant. If that fails, you have at least three discrete "get off me" buttons - the freeze bomb, bfg and the sword poo poo - and an iframe generator by the way of glory kills. On multiple occasion I'd corner myself from a lack of attention and then merely dash directly in front of a cyberdemon, baron or whatever and get away taking no damage. Resource management is also a matter of pressing the correct dispenser button at the right time and grabbing the occasional pickup along the way while running the big arena loops. Enemies don't really have strong enough roles to force you to change up what you are doing. The most dangerous enemies are the ones with attacks that predict where you are going to move to - so the snake men are a good example, but that's mitigated 90% of the time by dashing past them on your way around the winding multi-layered arena paths. Even the big bad marauder can be completely ignored in many cases while you take care of all the other threats. Once they're out of the way, it's just a case of standing still, waiting for the flash and following it up with the right combination of buttons to maximise damage output and get it over with faster. To make it worse, they don't really seem to work together outside of say, the archvile doing the buff totem thing (which was exceedingly rare in the base game). No analogous situation to the classic dilemma of being torn between the desire to dodge revenant rockets vs the constraints of a vile's line of sight attack, or having a shambler bearing down on your rat hole while you get grenades rained down from above. It's just the same poo poo on a loop. Sure, there are enemy weaknesses and the DLC introduces some gimmicks to force you to switch weapons to take care of specific threats, but these feel incredibly static and artificial, not helped by putting a loving popup in the game telling me exactly what to do before the situation even arises. I learn the button to press to make the issue go away and it eventually becomes another part of the autopilot system, which you execute at your leisure, if you even have to bother. It just feels like an attempt to replicate the complexity of encounter design in old doom, which result from the stronger delineation of enemy roles, how they interact with each other and geometry etc without having any of those systems. Instead I need to learn a new combination of keys or remember a fact like "press e to smash totem", "use microwave gun on blue ghost" or "switch to the autoshotgun when I see the recoloured imp". Superficially there's a lot going on with DE. It's loud, fast and you're pushing a lot of buttons, juggling a set of cooldowns, remembering what to use on the gimmicky enemy variants with specific weaknesses in the DLC, but every fight still largely boils down to the same thing. I compare that to the original doom and quake, where the challenge doesn't come from the flawless execution of a bunch of finger acrobatics, but is about the mental challenge of adapting to the specific situations a given map presents. In a good level I'm seriously made to think about (finite) resource management, spatial management, how to safely defuse dangerous combinations of enemies and how I can turn them to my favour. Every encounter feels substantially different to me and they're part of a continuum where the choices and mistakes I make in one fight directly affects how the next one will go and what I have to do there. DE feels utterly anaemic by comparison on any difficulty, even in the nastier (and agonisingly drawn out) bits of pre-nerf DLC1.
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Apr 1, 2021 18:13
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koren posted:The biggest skill barrier in DE is purely mechanical - learning how to manage your ridiculous number of binds for weapons, cooldowns and grenade switching. Yeah, this. There's nothing wrong with any individual weakness or gimmick in Eternal, but the majority of fights past the intro levels seem to throw all of them at you at once until the number of things you have to keep track of and execute simultaneously becomes so overwhelming it's not fun any more. You're trying to get in position to land the correct hit on the correct monster while at the same time avoiding the area denial guy (wrong weapon in hand to deal with him), the high-pressure charging guy (anti-this-guy tool is on cooldown), and the suppressing fire guy (can't do certain maneuvers or parkour routes). haveblue fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 18:17
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RyokoTK posted:Yeah it doesn't surprise me that the Early FPS Megathread broadly doesn't like Eternal in this exact way. I don't want to sound like a grognard, I'm extremely open to new mechanics in my FPSes and if I had my way there'd be a lot more experimentation in the genre. I just found Doom Eternal to be multiple steps in the wrong direction. RyokoTK posted:eta: like make no mistake, I totally get why people don't like Eternal, but I think people are making the whole bit about "it expects me to play the game in this exact way" to be more egregious or unusual than it actually is. But not playing how the game expects isn't any better. Like, example. I just beat Rage 2. Had a lot of fun, it's remarkable that it shares any DNA with Rage 1 - though the vehicles were still godawful, but I digress. You have a similar degree of mobility as Doom Eternal, and a similar host of powers and abilities on multiple cooldowns. But unlike Eternal, the areas are way more open and my powers aren't also my primary lifeline to my core resources, and so I don't feel a need to micromanage both during every fight. Your Rage powers can counter various types of enemies, but so can different weapons, or grenades, or just being clever with what parts of the enemy you target, or your angle of fire. I'd bounce between structures with dashes and double jumps to scale a huge building so I could power slam down on a mob, or I'd do a rapid dash between catwalks over a death pit to switch up my approach on a group, or I'd hop a fence to get the drop on some huge target so I could shatter-blast him off a cliff - and at all times, I felt like I was using the tools I was given to find creative solutions to problems. It never felt like that building was there for me to climb and the mob placed beneath it for me to slam, nor did I feel it was mandatory that I deal with a big bad using a shatter ambush. It's the same with my weapons and mods - I would definitely use certain weapons more against certain enemies, and even would mod with that in mind, but I never felt like I had to or that I was at a significant disadvantage when I wanted to try something else. Conversely, in Eternal I feel like using my powers has all the agency of the "harvest resources" button in a strategy game or timed buffs in an MMO. I'm not using my flame belch because I think a fire-based damage over time attack would be a clever way of dealing with a situation, I'm doing it because the timer is up and I need more armor. I'm not using a grenade against a Cacodemon because I think the area of effect will help soften up nearby flying enemies, I'm doing it because when the game holds up the flash card Cacodemon I need to hold up the flash card Grenade or the fight will take several seconds longer and cost more ammunition, and since I find Eternal's combat unfun and tedious the last thing I want to do is volunteer for more of it.
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Apr 1, 2021 19:04
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The Kins posted:New Civvie delves into the mustier parts of history. I'm interested because I didn't know there was enough to make a video on. I thought it'd been not only early in development when it was cancelled, but that a lot of data was lost afterwards and there were basically only a couple screenshots left.
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Apr 1, 2021 19:07
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I did not like Doom Eternal very much but I'm happy for the people that did and the more we get away from CoD style single player shooters the better. Also Mick Gordon is the Tom Follin of modern video game music.
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Apr 1, 2021 19:52
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https://twitter.com/Bridgeburner4/status/1377693912714801152?s=19 This is looking nice. There's a lot of shooty poo poo in development atm that looks really fast and crunchy and I'm into it.
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Apr 1, 2021 20:01
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haveblue posted:Yeah, this. There's nothing wrong with any individual weakness or gimmick in Eternal, but the majority of fights past the intro levels seem to throw all of them at you at once until the number of things you have to keep track of and execute simultaneously becomes so overwhelming it's not fun any more. You're trying to get in position to land the correct hit on the correct monster while at the same time avoiding the area denial guy (wrong weapon in hand to deal with him), the high-pressure charging guy (anti-this-guy tool is on cooldown), and the suppressing fire guy (can't do certain maneuvers or parkour routes). This is not unlike the harder maps of classic doom over the last five years though. Area denial, suppressing fire, high-pressure charging, yeah I just saw all of that playing 180 minutes pour vivre from the 2020 Cacowards.
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Apr 1, 2021 20:15
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Shoehead posted:https://twitter.com/Bridgeburner4/status/1377693912714801152?s=19 Oh yeah, the guy also posted a boss fight teaser a little while ago.
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Apr 1, 2021 20:31
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Can we at least agree that the decision to focus on "Lore" was an awful one? Like jesus christ, who the gently caress cares about that?
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Apr 1, 2021 21:15
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Narcissus1916 posted:Can we at least agree that the decision to focus on "Lore" was an awful one? Like jesus christ, who the gently caress cares about that? i sure dont and also the sword looks like poo poo
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Apr 1, 2021 21:22
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The way that it's both incredibly in your face and poorly written in Eternal, sure.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:23
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Narcissus1916 posted:Can we at least agree that the decision to focus on "Lore" was an awful one? Like jesus christ, who the gently caress cares about that? The one log that really got me was the doctor making voice notes on Earth. Hearing a scientist go from "holy poo poo there's someone trying to save people" to "holy poo poo it's literally Jesus Christ, I'm not worthy to touch the same ground as him" was really grating. A series of logs of her getting more and more annoyed at the superhuman poo poo the Doom Slayer was pulling off would have been way better, for instance. "Okay, he just punched out a Baron. Pretty strong, maybe they have a glass jaw. He just pulled three giant guns out of nowhere, this is getting stupid. Maybe a transdimensional storage spa- What the gently caress, that demon cube is three thouand tons, there is no way he punched that thing an inch, let alone ten feet! There's not even a dent! This is bullshit!"
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Apr 1, 2021 21:30
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Narcissus1916 posted:Can we at least agree that the decision to focus on "Lore" was an awful one? Like jesus christ, who the gently caress cares about that? It reminded me to the John Wick series. People like the first one all the brief mentions that implied an entire and mysterious mythos of underworld assassins and secret societies. The creators, instead of being wise and understanding it worked as long it was small teases implying a big, cool world our there, fell into the trap of focusing on it on the sequels. Too much focus on Proper Nouns instead of a simple vengeance story: the Continental, being Excomunicado, the Director, the Elder, the Adjudicator, the High Table, etc. (yes I'm looking at a wiki to remember this poo poo). Eternal Doom is the same, they didn't expect people to care for the small amounts of lore in Doom 2106, so when they did it (or at least, some did it), they over corrected and focused too much on DE.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:36
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catlord posted:I'm interested because I didn't know there was enough to make a video on. I thought it'd been not only early in development when it was cancelled, but that a lot of data was lost afterwards and there were basically only a couple screenshots left. Check the calendar ;D For real the work on this video is beyond impressive it’s like Petscop quality in making a facsimile of a thing.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:36
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al-azad posted:Check the calendar ;D Ah, that's right. That's pretty impressive though.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:53
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I feel like your ability to enjoy juggling cooldowns impacts what you get out of Doom Eternal. There's plenty of variety but constant cooldown management is a must regardless of how you play, and if you hate that then whatever other freedoms it offers feel like choosing the color of your jumpsuit in prison. This is compounded by the fact that cooldown management has never been an element of the series before (yes, 2016 had them, but far less and they were easily ignored), so you've got plenty of people who couldn't otherwise care about this particular playstyle suddenly forced to deal with it. Personally, I can't stand constant cooldown management so I was never able to enjoy whatever else the game had to offer. It just dictated the pace of the game too much, and was too central to the flow of combat, for me to get past it and enjoy all the cool things that I could see sitting there, just out of reach.
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Apr 1, 2021 22:07
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Narcissus1916 posted:Can we at least agree that the decision to focus on "Lore" was an awful one? Like jesus christ, who the gently caress cares about that? I really liked Doom3's story, which slowly revealed just how hosed stuff got. Like you thought it was mostly hosed but it was actually turbo hosed, it's great. I mostly liked Doom2016's retread of Doom3, though it got kinda wonky at the end - Which is generally where it deviated from Doom3 (Which maybe was outlined in the Doom bible? I forget) The lore in Doom Eternal is atrocious. And I went in expecting, based on what Hugo said, some saturday morning cartoon absurdity. Instead we got a fully voiced detailed sausage factory tour. It's really, really loving bad. But I haven't played the DLCs and won't til the game is done, done.
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Apr 1, 2021 22:42
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Narcissus1916 posted:Can we at least agree that the decision to focus on "Lore" was an awful one? Like jesus christ, who the gently caress cares about that? Oh for sure it's the dumbest poo poo ever. The settings are very nice to look at, at least, but it turns out that when you just come out and say that Doomguy is an immortal superhero it's just lame.
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Apr 2, 2021 00:37
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Learning how Argent Energy is produced is really funny if you play Doom 2016 and E back to back. You have Hayden ensuring you it's clean as gently caress, safe and renewable and then later in Hell he's like "And here is were we crush the bodies, only on the brink of pure suffering can we harvest their souls to power microwaves"
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Apr 2, 2021 00:38
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sethsez posted:I feel like your ability to enjoy juggling cooldowns impacts what you get out of Doom Eternal. There's plenty of variety but constant cooldown management is a must regardless of how you play, and if you hate that then whatever other freedoms it offers feel like choosing the color of your jumpsuit in prison. This is compounded by the fact that cooldown management has never been an element of the series before (yes, 2016 had them, but far less and they were easily ignored), so you've got plenty of people who couldn't otherwise care about this particular playstyle suddenly forced to deal with it. This was pretty much my experience with it last year. The cooldowns are practically required (a main source of health/armor/ammo) and if you're not playing the cooldown game, the game gets infinitely harder. I want to focus more on traversing terrain and working crowds of monsters, but the game also requires additional attention paid to 10+ second cooldowns if you want to survive the encounter. The Cacoward entries got brought up as having similar dynamics to Eternal, but there's a huge gulf of a difference between how the two games handle that it seems like a really bad comparison. In classic doom, if an Archvile (or multiple) appear during a monster trap, you're instantly looking around at your terrain and monster placement to see where you should murder a path through to get to safety and work out how you're getting to this one priority target in a crowd of chaos and infighting. I just don't get the same satisfaction in Eternal.
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Apr 2, 2021 00:55
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Narcissus1916 posted:Can we at least agree that the decision to focus on "Lore" was an awful one? Like jesus christ, who the gently caress cares about that? Yeah, like I’ve said before: if you’re making a Doom game, and you find yourself designing a level where you walk down a long hall not shooting anything but being repeatedly interrupted by cutscenes, you need to take a step back and re-evaluate everything that led you to this point
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Apr 2, 2021 01:03
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