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Flannelette posted:Shoot down straight away and cripple so it crashes before reaching home are different things. Ahh yes, every IL-2 that got hit by german fighters and flew away from it inevitably crashed after, of course. You know, that actually still doesn't really help your case of rifle calibre bullets supposedly being effective against a plane that proved quite resistant to HMG and light autocannon calibres.
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Apr 1, 2021 17:52
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Magni posted:Ahh yes, every IL-2 that got hit by german fighters and flew away from it inevitably crashed after, of course. Effective? Probably not. A lucky shot being able to bring down a plane, or kill the pilot? Absolutely.
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Apr 1, 2021 19:23
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Magni posted:Ahh yes, every IL-2 that got hit by german fighters and flew away from it inevitably crashed after, of course. Nobody's making the assertion that anything is 100% effective. If you've played literally any flight sim for a long enough period of time, you'll know that literally any amount of damage can lead to a lost plane. If the gear takes damage from even just small arms for example, it's quite likely that the plane is absolutely fine up until landing, at which point you shear the wing off and snap the prop. These kinds of concerns do have important implications in terms of airframes, parts and pilots. You also have to add the psychological component. Nobody likes being shot at. Meanwhile if you're an infantryman or a gunner not diving for cover because it doesn't look like the plane's coming right at you, you're probably taking shots at the thing. Would you want to fly slow, straight and level near the ground in those conditions? Similarly, even if the PTAB isn't actually a great tank killer, imagine you're inside a tank when those things drop. It'd probably sound and look like the world is loving ending, and it wouldn't be surprising if it fucks with your tracks or turret, with lucky hits actually penetrating. As previously discussed, WW2 was before anti-tank airstrike capabilities were actually decent, but that doesn't stop them from being utterly terrifying against crews of very uncomfortable and very tense and nervous men inside of lovely tin cans with limited visibility at a point in time when they're still learning how to train people to cope with that poo poo. Buller posted:The Germans lost the Battle of Britain to Tommies who were really good with the Enfield. Stukas were specifically made to scare the living poo poo out of people in the area being bombed and were dive bombing at speed. 88s and 111s would bomb from altitude. Totally different scenario.
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Apr 1, 2021 20:08
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I'd just like to apologize for the Il2/PTAB discussion that I started. As for the Easter Sale, I can recommend Panzer Corps 2, Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa (all of them are pretty good, but barb is the best), Shadow Empire. I liked War Plan, but it's one of those weird games that is part way between Panzer Corps and being a real simulation, so it's not for everyone. Also, since it's April 1st, I'll add: Panzer Corps 2 is the best because it accurately depicts the Stuka as being better for anti-tank missions than the Il2, thank you for your time. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 21:20
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Like I kinda want this to not be joke. https://twitter.com/TriassicGames/status/1377655750500159493
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Apr 1, 2021 21:42
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V for Vegas posted:Like I kinda want this to not be joke. Hopefully it turns out to be like one of those War Thunder jokes that end up getting implemented for real.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:52
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That but not a joke is just war on the sea isn't it?
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Apr 1, 2021 22:45
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Pharnakes posted:That but not a joke is just war on the sea isn't it? I think that's the joke, the studio split up and Killer Shark the studio who made Cold Waters went the WW2 Pacific route and the new studio made up of ex Killer Shark devs continued with the Cold War stuff.
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Apr 1, 2021 23:55
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has anyone played the new SGS Afrika Korps published by Avalon? I've been dyin' for something in that theater but it seems like slim pickins
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Apr 2, 2021 00:02
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ZombieLenin posted:Effective? Probably not. A lucky shot being able to bring down a plane, or kill the pilot? Absolutely. Whoever landed that rifle shot should be playing the lottery, because he just beat odds worse than that. It's so far out there to be statistically meaningless. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Nobody's making the assertion that anything is 100% effective. If you've played literally any flight sim for a long enough period of time, you'll know that literally any amount of damage can lead to a lost plane. If the gear takes damage from even just small arms for example, it's quite likely that the plane is absolutely fine up until landing, at which point you shear the wing off and snap the prop. These kinds of concerns do have important implications in terms of airframes, parts and pilots. No, but someone's trying to make an assertion that what amounts to a million-in-one chance is actually meaningful in a larger context. As for psychological impact? An IL-2 on a run isn't that slow. The most likely result of some idiots wasting ammo trying to take potshots at it with a rifle or LMG is that the pilot never even notices. Hoping to scare off a plane diving right at you with tracer fire from your tanks' self-defense AAMG is already what amounts to a desperate last resort. Some chucklefuck trying actual deflection shots with a handheld weapon or machinegun without an AA mount? That's just a lot of noise and wasted ammo for absolutely nothing. Magni fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 02:27
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Wow it sold 9000 copies! https://twitter.com/piuemme/status/1377984685117210633
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Apr 2, 2021 21:41
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Would overpressure from a close but not direct bomb explosion be a concern for a WW2 tank crew?
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Apr 2, 2021 22:06
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skooma512 posted:Would overpressure from a close but not direct bomb explosion be a concern for a WW2 tank crew? Depends on how big the bomb is I guess. Near misses probably screwed up optics/tracks and might immobilize or reduce a tanks effectiveness.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:11
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skooma512 posted:Would overpressure from a close but not direct bomb explosion be a concern for a WW2 tank crew? I assume you're thinking of "could this big blast of air pressure near you, kill you, if you're inside a non-NBC hardened box?" Answer is like everything else "it depends", but; in generalised WW2 tanky-battlefield terms, No. A big hardened metal box is very very good at withstanding pressue from outside, much like an egg. Your ears aren't etc. but the difference between being on the inside and outside is immense. Now, if you moved that pressure inside the box...
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Apr 2, 2021 22:56
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:I assume you're thinking of "could this big blast of air pressure near you, kill you, if you're inside a non-NBC hardened box?" Answer is like everything else "it depends", but; in generalised Got it, makes sense. I would say losing their hearing is a risk too, but they're already in a cannon on top of a diesel engine, so they're probably all going deaf just by being a tanker in the first place.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:36
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V for Vegas posted:Wow it sold 9000 copies! The irony is Matrix were the only ones claiming it was a dying niche as their self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Apr 3, 2021 01:20
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Magni posted:Whoever landed that rifle shot should be playing the lottery, because he just beat odds worse than that. It's so far out there to be statistically meaningless. Honestly, I know you are wrong on this account. Small arms anti-aircraft fire was taught in American Infantry school during the Second World War. Don’t mistake lack of modern computers for lack of statistical data and very smart statisticians (Macnamare was one of them, in fact.) If anti-aircraft small arms fire did not show statistically significant results, it would have never been taught. I am not saying it was easy for infantry to bring down planes with rifles, but concentrated anti-air small arms fire got results often enough for the very smart people in charge of the United States Army invested the resources and time on training infantry men how to properly shoot at airplanes. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 04:32
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That doesn't necessarily mean it was effective, just someone in the Department of War thought it was a good idea. There's a lot of reasons you could justify it, e.g. the price of small arms rounds is considerably less than the price of a plane and pilot so even a million-to-one rifle round to plane-downing ratio would be cost efficient, teaching infantry to return fire might reduce the morale impact of air attacks (which is considerable), taking 30 minutes to teach infantrymen how to engage aircraft has a very small marginal cost, etc. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it's easy to come up with a story to justify it.
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Apr 3, 2021 05:42
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Yer, I believe it was mainly a morale thing. Being bombed of strafed with no way of hitting back is a killer. Even with AA sights you're still chasing that needle in a haystack. What you are doing is making life harder for the pilots trying to attack you though. Make them pull out earlier or fly higher etc. Lots of tracers is intimidating even in your fairly well armoured aircraft. Abongination fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 06:03
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I've read an accout years ago, which I now just cannot find. Of an extremely upper class british officer circa summer of 1940. Giving confident lectures to his bemused battalion of ex-miners and brummie factory workers about how shooting down a Stuka with a Lee-Enfield was just like 'Bagging a brace of Grouse* on the Glorious 12th**' and offering tips on how to do so. *British game bird. **12th August, traditional start of the hunting season.
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Apr 3, 2021 09:07
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Abongination posted:Yer, I believe it was mainly a morale thing. Being bombed of strafed with no way of hitting back is a killer. On both ends. There's plenty of accounts of allied pilots who hated flying over allied troops because of the hail of small arms fire they'd get from inexperienced formations. It might be mostly ineffective, but all it takes is one lucky bullet and you are dead.
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Apr 3, 2021 09:34
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https://twitter.com/unityofcommand/status/1378308755264307201 this is looking real dang cool
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Apr 3, 2021 15:34
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/unityofcommand/status/1378308755264307201 Cool, now back to grog games...
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Apr 3, 2021 15:54
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I like the screenshot because it seems hes just thrown away the entire panzer strength of army group centre. e: I wish unity of command would decide what it wants to be - if it wants to be a full puzzle game (get rid of the randomness factors) or if it wants to be a grog-lite title (get rid of the puzzle mechanics)
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Apr 3, 2021 17:29
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this counts as a grognard game and I will not hear otherwise https://twitter.com/open_sketchbook/status/1378393515294613507
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Apr 3, 2021 18:08
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sum posted:That doesn't necessarily mean it was effective, just someone in the Department of War thought it was a good idea. There's a lot of reasons you could justify it, e.g. the price of small arms rounds is considerably less than the price of a plane and pilot so even a million-to-one rifle round to plane-downing ratio would be cost efficient, teaching infantry to return fire might reduce the morale impact of air attacks (which is considerable), taking 30 minutes to teach infantrymen how to engage aircraft has a very small marginal cost, etc. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it's easy to come up with a story to justify it. Again, I am absolutely not saying that it effective enough it could be relied on as a way to ‘regularly’ bring down airplanes, but it was effective enough—and significant enough—that they continued to train men how to do it. By the way, when they were teaching men how to do it, it always involved the massed fire of a whole platoon—if they weren’t being bombed directly. And yeah, I think in those rare moments 5 or more guys aimed well enough that a cloud of rifle projectiles was in the path of a low flying/strafing airplane, it probably wasn’t fun for the pilots they were shooting at—regardless of whether or not the plane was actually damaged. Edit And it’s still occasionally effective against things like attack helicopters. A large percentage of Apaches shot down in Afghanistan and Iraq have been brought down my small arms fire and non-guided RPGs. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 21:37
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BrotherJayne posted:Cool, now back to grog games... We occasionally talk about this puzzle game.
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Apr 4, 2021 01:36
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:I assume you're thinking of "could this big blast of air pressure near you, kill you, if you're inside a non-NBC hardened box?" Answer is like everything else "it depends", but; in generalised Wouldn't a direct explosive shell from something like an ISU-152 or an American 155 artillery gun be a really bad day for you even inside a tank?
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Apr 4, 2021 05:08
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Mans posted:Wouldn't a direct explosive shell from something like an ISU-152 or an American 155 artillery gun be a really bad day for you even inside a tank? 1. What box are you in 2. Most boxes cracked from that, with a result again much like an egg 3. The Q was originally about the "near miss" situation => a direct hit from a 15cm gun is a whole box full of bullshit to be in 
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Apr 4, 2021 06:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zydMg5eEMKk New Second Front vid. Looking like the compu-ASL game I was hoping for
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Apr 4, 2021 06:48
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Good, i'll have something to incessantly stream as i recreate every asl scenario in it.
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Apr 4, 2021 06:58
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Good, i'll have something to incessantly stream as i recreate every asl scenario in it. Hopefully you'll find better opponents with the new game!
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Apr 4, 2021 15:17
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Kinda liking the look of WITE2, but I see it's only available in the Slitherine store. Any idea if it's coming to Steam later, or if buying it in the Slitherine store gets me a steam key?
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Apr 4, 2021 15:45
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Loezi posted:Kinda liking the look of WITE2, but I see it's only available in the Slitherine store. Any idea if it's coming to Steam later, or if buying it in the Slitherine store gets me a steam key? Yes to both, probably 6 months or so.
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Apr 4, 2021 15:48
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Mans posted:Wouldn't a direct explosive shell from something like an ISU-152 or an American 155 artillery gun be a really bad day for you even inside a tank? gently caress yes. The concussive force could kill you regardless of whether or not the AFV was penetrated. Edit Yes, depends on the vehicle and how close the near miss is. I will point out the IEDs in Iraq that utilized 155mm Iraqi Army artillery shells would cause casualties in an M1A2 without penetrating the actual vehicle from concussive force alone. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Apr 4, 2021 |
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Apr 4, 2021 16:11
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Speaking of flight sims: why the gently caress are all the IL2 dlcs 50+ bucks? That's ridiculous.
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Apr 4, 2021 18:08
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Ashmole posted:Speaking of flight sims: why the gently caress are all the IL2 dlcs 50+ bucks? That's ridiculous. Just wait for it to go on sale for 50% or more. It happens pretty regularly.
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Apr 4, 2021 18:12
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ZombieLenin posted:gently caress yes. The concussive force could kill you regardless of whether or not the AFV was penetrated. 
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Apr 4, 2021 19:23
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Ashmole posted:Speaking of flight sims: why the gently caress are all the IL2 dlcs 50+ bucks? That's ridiculous. That’s downright reasonable. DCS sells individual planes at that price. You can buy a moderately fancier aircraft carrier to land on for £30. With IL2 you get a campaign/campaigns, map and several planes.
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Apr 4, 2021 19:34
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Yep. Does it count as a penetration of the turret pops off?
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Apr 4, 2021 20:31
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