|
Yeah a lot of it is people who want to theorycraft a better society but then when you ask them how we get from here to there they call you an authoritarian or tankie
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:46 |
|
|
Josh Christ posted:It sucks because now I need to find a new way to describe my bone deep hatred of hierarchical power structures welcome to the world of christian communism, josh christ
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
If we're being serious as I understand it the basic philosophy is: 1. No one has authority to tell others what to do unless they accept their commands willingly 2. Decisions that affect a group must be made by the group that is most affected 3. The only plot of earth you have any right to own is the part you are physically in poo poo in the river? #2 says that if the people downstream agree to forbid it then you shouldn't do it. Smoke weed? #1 says no one has the right to stop you unless you value their company more than weed. Sleeping in the park? #3 says that it is no one's business. The natural conclusion to these principles is that the status quo is a hellscape and we would be better off living in the woods, but a lot of philosophies end with that conclusion. What you can do about this is form an Epicurean commune if you and your friends are rich enough, but you'll still need to interact with the outside world. Violence against people is against #1, but having the system forced on you when you can't afford opt out makes you a victim of violence by default. This is the rational behind the alternative, actively destroying materials and infrastructure that keeps the current power systems in place. You can believe the basic philosophy of anarchism to be true, or at least better than the status quo, but not be an anarchist. I would say there is no one in the US today is a communist either, just people who believe that communism is correct. Everyone feel free to dog pile me though, I haven't given that big of a poo poo about tossing my body into the gears to make them stop ever since I got a job that pays above poverty wages.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
Flying-PCP posted:It means removing all hierarchy, and then adding back hierarchy as you decide you need it, until you're back to neoliberal society as we know it in a week or so, except now you have a lot of glass to sweep up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
like if any of these people had actually read Kropotkin they'd know that he specifically says that if someone in the anarchist commune decides they want to bring back capitalism his answer was that everyone else should just shoot the fucker
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
ram dass in hell posted:Yeah a lot of it is people who want to theorycraft a better society but then when you ask them how we get from here to there they call you an authoritarian or tankie A good rule of thumb to me is the following. Ask someone if he would participate in an armed revolution if the need arises, so that his/all children can have a better future. If he says that violence can never be the answer, then gently caress him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:44
|
|
|
the guy who wrote king leopold's ghost has a book on the spanish civil war where he off-handily describes anarchism as a pre-industrial ideology. probably one of his better political insights in the book
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:47
|
|
|
Josh Christ posted:It sucks because now I need to find a new way to describe my bone deep hatred of hierarchical power structures hierarchy, what is actually is and how it manifests or arises, the extent to which its required and what protections should be put in place to neuter hierarchies in systems, what it means to be communal in the communist sense and how that relates to hierarchy, etc. etc. etc. are all incredibly important things to talk about and think about and keep at the forefront of your mind when you're trying to work towards communism, but it's almost totally impossible to talk about with any American* self-professed anarchist under the age of 40 because suddenly you're a tankie fascist stalinist for pointing out that there will probably need to be some sort of at least semi-coercive structure so that society continues to maintain sewage systems and produce medicines. that said anarchism is fundamentally liberal in how it regards the individual as the singular and atomic unit of society to whom all rights are exclusively given, but at least anarchists -- by which I mean people that understand the word and aren't just teenagers in breadtube comments -- are honest about it * I don't know poo poo about European anarchists, maybe they are cool, sorry Dante80
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:50
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:the guy who wrote king leopold's ghost has a book on the spanish civil war where he off-handily describes anarchism as a pre-industrial ideology. probably one of his better political insights in the book pre-industrial social models but with full liberal enlightenment is their only real vision, it seems
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:53
|
|
|
Pentecoastal Elites posted:* I don't know poo poo about European anarchists, maybe they are cool, sorry Dante80 No prob...this post might give some more context about the situation here in Greece..although things have changed since then too. To the worse, of course. T_T
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
i have tried to read some early 20th century east asian anarchists and all they could talk about is loving up the Japanese. pretty cool but not sure how valuable it is today.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
vaush looks like sebastian gorka
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 17:59
|
|
|
Josh Christ posted:It sucks because now I need to find a new way to describe my bone deep hatred of hierarchical power structures Poststructuralism?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
AOC definitely wants to run at some point
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:01
|
|
|
Fleetwood posted:vaush looks like sebastian gorka vaush looks like your college roommate who had to stay an extra year because he spent too much time organizing world of warcraft raids to get enough credits to graduate on time is trying his best to look like sebastian gorka
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:02
|
|
|
aoc getting destroyed by pelosi and the dnc through redistricting and other tricks would be really funny
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
the difference between a good anarchist and a bad anarchist is that if you tell the anarchist that a hypothetical decentralized, democratically run worker's militia preventing capitalists from gathering their power back would still be considered a state, a good anarchist will be like "oh yeah we're not intrinsically anti state if thats what you mean", the bad anarchist will be like "no its not because the state is bad and that is good"
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
she's gonna be in congress for as long as she wants and people will give her all of the money
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
lumpentroll posted:she's gonna be in congress for as long as she wants and people will give her all of the money
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:16
|
|
|
hello it is me the self-hating libertarian here to tell you what an evil tyrant you are for not believing humanity capable of just magically getting a grip once proscribed rules don't exist no, NO it's DIFFERENT when the militia does it you shut the gently caress up
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:17
|
|
|
the majority of people will absolutely buy the bullshit she's selling
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
AOC in 30 years: Look at my ice cream collection! We have to do something in 20 years about the second climate war! By 2050 we should think about raising the minimum wage to $20/hr!
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
DoomTrainPhD posted:AOC in 30 years: MechaTrump was the arm reduction candidate
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:21
|
|
|
Pentecoastal Elites posted:hierarchy, what is actually is and how it manifests or arises, the extent to which its required and what protections should be put in place to neuter hierarchies in systems, what it means to be communal in the communist sense and how that relates to hierarchy, etc. etc. etc. are all incredibly important things to talk about and think about and keep at the forefront of your mind when you're trying to work towards communism, but it's almost totally impossible to talk about with any American* self-professed anarchist under the age of 40 because suddenly you're a tankie fascist stalinist for pointing out that there will probably need to be some sort of at least semi-coercive structure so that society continues to maintain sewage systems and produce medicines. I didn't read any of this, gently caress you dad
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:21
|
|
|
DoomTrainPhD posted:AOC in 30 years: how can you say they're cages? look, they use laser fencing, those aren't cages, by definition!
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
DoomTrainPhD posted:AOC in 30 years: But for real though, when you look at Pelosi in the 1990s talking about single-payer versus her now, you can see AOC starting down that path.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:23
|
|
|
Ruzihm posted:the difference between a good anarchist and a bad anarchist is that if you tell the anarchist that a hypothetical decentralized, democratically run worker's militia preventing capitalists from gathering their power back would still be considered a state, a good anarchist will be like "oh yeah we're not intrinsically anti state if thats what you mean", the bad anarchist will be like "no its not because the state is bad and that is good" Yeah that sounds like an okay state as opposed to every other state.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:24
|
|
|
lumpentroll posted:it turns out D&D were the ones actually posting unsourced quotes Isn't every post an unsourced quote of the inner voice of the mind?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
PoontifexMacksimus posted:Isn't every post an unsourced quote of the inner voice of the mind? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
I got bounced from DSA for yelling at two other Steering Committee members who found out in advance of a credible threat of violence at a protest we were organizing (that I and other members did attend, unkowingly) but told no one, because the threat came from one of their krustie buddies in ISO. This was in the hot days right after Trump and charlottesville to be clear so there was at least the sense of real risk at times. During the grievance process, they (only one of them, the other chickenshitted out, 'they' is for anonymity) said that as an anarchist they didn't believe it was ok of me to declare for them what their responsibilities were to myself and to the group they campaigned to be on SC, then campaigned within SC to be chair, then about ten minutes later said that it was disrespectful of their position as chair and whatever rinky-dink national committee they'd managed to get on by, probably, filling out a google form. Anyway, that's my one and only experience with 'anarchists'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
Biden already put down astroturf on top of the bare concrete these people were sleeping on so he is objectively better than Donald Trump Checkmate, Anarchists
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:26
|
|
|
I do wonder if this was always the plan or if Bernie and his movement getting blown out is specifically what set her down this path.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:27
|
|
|
PipHelix posted:I got bounced from DSA for yelling at two other Steering Committee members who found out in advance of a credible threat of violence at a protest we were organizing (that I and other members did attend, unkowingly) but told no one, because the threat came from one of their krustie buddies in ISO. This was in the hot days right after Trump and charlottesville to be clear so there was at least the sense of real risk at times. lmao DSA!
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:28
|
|
|
Buck Wildman posted:hello it is me the self-hating libertarian here to tell you what an evil tyrant you are for not believing humanity capable of just magically getting a grip once proscribed rules don't exist yeah if you press any of them it reveals that they take the Human Nature argument and dive headfirst in the other direction, and communism will simply bring about a new kind of uncorrupted person.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:lmao tbf I was young and stupid. Freshfaced 30something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:I do wonder if this was always the plan or if Bernie and his movement getting blown out is specifically what set her down this path. For her? I don't think it's either. I think she's a dipshit who got coopted.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:30
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:I do wonder if this was always the plan or if Bernie and his movement getting blown out is specifically what set her down this path. I think it just sped it up. There were a poo poo ton of vocal leftists happily riding Sander's wave to suddenly 180ing on all of their ideals the moment he quit. Anyone like that was going to turn the more power they accrued regardless.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
if she was an op from day 1, she probably wouldn't have been put up against joe crowley. she merely became an op later on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:32
|
|
|
Notorious R.I.M. posted:But for real though, when you look at Pelosi in the 1990s talking about single-payer versus her now, you can see AOC starting down that path. or hillary, from trying to get UHC passed and failing to "it's not gonna solve racism! 5 minute abs! ponies and rainbows!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:46 |
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:I do wonder if this was always the plan or if Bernie and his movement getting blown out is specifically what set her down this path. wasn’t there some stupid beef she had during his campaign too? I thought she stopped doing events for a minute
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:36
|
|
