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Tyranny is an interesting game, one I want to like more than I think I actually like it. It's a game that wants to study and talk about power, how power flows and changes shape and form, and how people interact with power. I think in that respect Tyranny is a solid game with the goal of getting you thinking a little bit. As an RPG and as a story, though, I think Tyranny's devotion to its concepts and themes comes at the cost of its characters. Very few of Tyranny's characters feel particularly interesting to me, because to me they feel like they're heavily subordinated to the thematic needs of the plot. For me, Eb, Tunon, and Graven Ashe strike the best balance of serving the game's theme and concepts with also being coherent and compelling characters in themselves (yes I think Graven Ashe is an interesting character - as a villain). The Fatebinder herself, in my opinion, is probably the weakest part of the game for reasons already elaborated on. Thanks for the ride and thoughts, TheGreatEvilKing! Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a Disfavored run if you're going to do another. I'm not the only person who sided with them the first time I played the game because they superficially seem like the lesser evil, and I'd be interested to see a more in-depth look along those lines.
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Apr 3, 2021 22:14
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Going by what we've seen in the game so far, I can see an argument Kyros was potentially expecting to generate a new enemy for the empire but it was intended to be Ashe or Nerat. The Edict going off was her best-case scenario and the most likely to result, but even if one of the factions takes the hall that leaves the other unlikely to take the change of ownership lying down, and both Archons are unstable enough Kyros could easily provoke them into open rebellion in a deniable way. The Fatebinder taking command and then proving competent enough to fight off both armies was an unexpected factor, and then becoming the Archon of Edicts was completely impossible to predict and totally flipped over the game board. I don't have any specific preference for route but I would like to see whatever's needed to give the Stonestalkers their best ending, they're the most reasonable people in the entire game.
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Apr 3, 2021 22:30
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With the discord in the ending there I kinda want to see just how stupid and bad the blind loyalist ending gets. e: One thing I didn't see mentioned is that the Anarchy ending seems to mirror the rise to power Kyros had at the other end of the world. The story at the start of the game showed 3 Archons who bent the knee to Kyros at beginning and in the Anarchy ending you have Tunon, Bleden Mark, and Sirin serving under you. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 23:04
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Yeah I mean I think that's the point. We were always going to become a new Kyros. The Fatebinder wields absolute power in every ending. I've got no problems with all the infighting and problems that happen in the endings because a happy peaceful ending doesn't make any sense. It's not that kind of game, and power doesn't solve every problem. Kyros being a title rather than a single entity, people referring to them with different genders, etc. (even the ones that have met them in person); that was always my take on it, rather than any commentary on gender or whatever. Also I agree that the puppetmaster defense doesn't hold water either, the current Kyros was not expecting this.
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Apr 3, 2021 23:28
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Yeah, it seemed pretty popular but under scrutity Kyros is pretty hosed, with Cleo having authority over the Tiers and being able to just nuke the Empire if she wants. That said, isn't Cleo stronger since she can just use Spires to drop Edicts, while Kyros has to delegate to someone to read it? And I wouldn't be surprised if the ending weridness, beyond the game assuming Anarchy is the "gently caress you" path, was also because bugs.
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Apr 3, 2021 23:34
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Yeah, it seemed pretty popular but under scrutity Kyros is pretty hosed, with Cleo having authority over the Tiers and being able to just nuke the Empire if she wants. That said, isn't Cleo stronger since she can just use Spires to drop Edicts, while Kyros has to delegate to someone to read it? I'm sure Kyros can use Edicts as well but when you're a global empire-ruling Tyrant you have no shortage of disposable people to use to fire your magical nukes without putting yourself in harms way.
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Apr 3, 2021 23:40
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The game really can't decide if the Fatebinder has allies or not. And could really have used some organisation. I'm assuming you posted them in order in which case they really should have had it so it was "Stuff that happens to Nerat/Ashe, Stuff that happens with the Chorus/Disfavoured." Rather than all over the place like it was. And, you know, had some sort of option to return the helm since it came up in the trial. Or have it get auto-returned if you pick that trial defense. Early on I can see it being Kyros's plan. Right up until you start taking Spires and doubly so when you learn how to Edict.
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Apr 4, 2021 01:00
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I am also in the camp of "Kyros planned for whatever happened in the tiers to create the next Great Enemy, but did not plan for the tiers to start shooting edicts back her way." I'm not sure about gimmicks, but I'm voting for a Chorus run. I haven't seen the other two routes, but I have a pretty clear idea of what the Disfavored get up to, and you've already mentioned that the only way to recruit the Stonestalkers on the Rebel path is to also recruit the Unbroken, which, blech. The Chorus route is certainly something different, and comes with a whole array of endings, one of which is by far the best decision you can make in the game.
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Apr 4, 2021 01:27
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Veloxyll posted:Early on I can see it being Kyros's plan. Right up until you start taking Spires and doubly so when you learn how to Edict. Yeah, the fatebinder taking control of the spires and using them to cast edicts is something that Kyros' didn't expect. While it's not addressed what exactly Kyros does or doesn't know about the spires, very knowledgeable groups such as the sages or the court have no idea how they work. It's entirely reasonable to assume Kyros doesn't know about them and is caught completely off guard at this point. My read remains that Ashe and Nerat were supposed to have a civil war with one wiping out the other. The loser is declared loyal martyr, the winner is a traitor, and Kyros has an self sabotaging idiot as her controlled opposition. Everything after, starting with sending a fatebinder with an edict, is her attempting to salvage the plan. The assumption at that point is clearly the fatebinder would side with one of the generals and tip the balance, it doesn't matter which one. If I remember correctly, Tunon even tells you as much. He asks you to find evidence proving one archon guilty, and if you ask about the possibility that they are both at fault, he dithers a bit before saying you should really focus your efforts entirely on one of them. Kyros is obviously fallible, but not incompetent. Her empire is bad at providing effective governance to it's subjects, but that is not what being a tyrant's government is for. A tyrant's government is entirely about creating structures to maintain and grow the tyrant's power, which Kyros has done extremely well. Even if Cleo dethrones her tomorrow Kyros did hold power for 400 years and grew to directly control almost the entire known world.
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Apr 4, 2021 01:38
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I've never seen the Rebel Alliance route but I'm worried it'll be too similar to the No Masters route in parts. I think the Chorus route is fun (and probably a bit more narratively coherent than No Masters). I'm up for anyone who's done Disfavored to make a case for it.
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Apr 4, 2021 02:32
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I'll vote for the Chorus route and feed anyone we can to Nerat I don't see why people assume Kyros ever needed to turn the Tiers into some power enemy. They would only need to do that to keep the armies busy, but all evidence points to the plan being sabotaging everyone (after they got 90% of the way to conquest) as justification to kill everyone in the valley, tying up all the loose ends.
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Apr 4, 2021 02:38
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I think the thing to bear in mind about the whole "did Kyros plan for all of this?" thing is that the image of Kyros as a mastermind plotting everything that her enemies are doing is very much the image that Kyros would like to project, and that historically dictators tend not to be very smart, just lucky and with good propagandists. The early parts of the game are likely the result of Kyros maneuvering things to get rid of a few inconvenient archons, but pretty much everything after that is things just spiraling out of control. The characters want to believe Kyros is still behind the scenes pulling the strings because the propaganda environment they have been brought up in tells them that is what is happening, even when the things that are happening very clearly do not favour Kyros and her empire's stability. As for the next run through, I did Chorus when I played the game the first time so I've already seen that route, but wouldn't mind seeing your take on it, so my vote is Either Chorus or Disfavoured. The reason I'm not voting rebel is just because I feel like it might be a bit redundant with the anarchy path where it involves telling both of the main factions to gently caress off immediately.
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Apr 4, 2021 02:39
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Also that Lantry ending is not his standard loyalty ending; I'm assuming it comes from his DLC quest. I guess it's cool that he's resolved to be your personal propagandist, but the vanilla ending is one of the sweetest.
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Apr 4, 2021 03:21
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quote:We still need to pick a route and a gimmick for our second to last playthough. I am thinking our second Fatebinder is a cruel rear end in a top hat who gets all the party members killed and pisses off Tunon, but I'm open to suggestions! Sounds good to me. I would also suggest adding them picking "glare silently" as often as humanly possible. Preferably as a disfavored loyalist in heavy armor, but mostly because that option is amazing, them tracking it is amazing, and more games need dialogue options for silently judging those around you.
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Apr 4, 2021 04:07
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Guildenstern Mother posted:Barrick is much more handsome than I assumed. I always pictured him as kinda doughy and pale, like a british tourist at the beach. I was not prepared for studmuffin Barrick.
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Apr 4, 2021 10:49
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thanks for showing this game, the story was really interesting but the game mechanics make it look like it'd be very boring to play for me I agree that the ending cards feel cheap, oddly disconnected and poorly written. they should've made a bigger effort to write them in a way that overcomes the in-game narrative limitations, exploring the consequences of your actions in a more nuanced way
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Apr 4, 2021 11:25
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it really looks like they were racing to get this thing shipped before the deadline watching this anarchist path huh.
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Apr 4, 2021 14:38
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Tyranny is a decent game with a great concept, but after actually playing the game, I can't put it anywhere near Pillars, Kotor or New Vegas. In the end, a game needs to be evaluated for its gameplay, and Tyranny's....not very interesting. And I say this with tremendous sadness, because I loved the game, only to be increasingly disappointed by how they dropped the ball on the final chapter and the DLC. I'd honestly love for a Tyranny 2 that would just be the first game but with any kind of enemy variety, interesting dungeons, and a coherent narrative that ties into proper endings. Thank you for this run, the Anarchist path seemed interesting but I went Chorus instead so it was great to see the contrasts. I'd love to see you try out the DIsfavored path as loyal to Ashe as possible, because I could never bother with collaborating with the tin men. mortons stork posted:it really looks like they were racing to get this thing shipped before the deadline watching this anarchist path huh. the Bane monsters really give me the idea that the devs wanted a certain timeframe for the game and the company gave them half.
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Apr 4, 2021 20:02
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I vote for Kyros True Believer with unwavering devotion to all things Kyros just to see how bad it gets.Zulily Zoetrope posted:I am also in the camp of "Kyros planned for whatever happened in the tiers to create the next Great Enemy, but did not plan for the tiers to start shooting edicts back her way." I'm not. Kyros sent an edict that was very clearly a "I want you incompetent assholes to die" and while they would be ok with the tiers being taken and having to deal with Ashe/Nerat another time, as soon as the Fatebinder fulfills the Edict, absorbs its power, and activates a spire poo poo has officially gone sideways. Kyros was absolutely hoping the Fatebinder would fail since the problem of the Tiers and several troublesome Archons (including at least one who nearly killed them) would be resolved. Plus didn't the Edict ending flat out state "the Edict killed everyone in the valley and the rest of the Tiers surrendered. Kyros rules with absolutely no challenges to their power" because the world is literally terrified into obedience? That Kyros eventually decides "gently caress it, Archon Thunderdome in the Tiers" shows just how far out of their control things have gotten.
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Apr 4, 2021 23:48
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Declaring Kyros' Peace to be a lie is absolutely the nuclear option outside of just outright declaring numerous edicts to try and kill them all off, and Kyros may not be able to throw them around as much as his followers would believe.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:29
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ChaseSP posted:Declaring Kyros' Peace to be a lie is absolutely the nuclear option outside of just outright declaring numerous edicts to try and kill them all off, and Kyros may not be able to throw them around as much as his followers would believe. It's worth noting that Kyros dropped four in this conquest, which is something that would have emptied our power bar super quickly.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:33
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:It's worth noting that Kyros dropped four in this conquest, which is something that would have emptied our power bar super quickly. That was over the course of three years. We filled that power bar in what, several months?
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Apr 5, 2021 02:37
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Technically she dropped 3 Edicts in the third year of the Conquest, and a fourth the next year. So Kyros has shown that he can power multiple Edicts in the course of a single year.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:42
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Servetus posted:Technically she dropped 3 Edicts in the third year of the Conquest, and a fourth the next year. So Kyros has shown that he can power multiple Edicts in the course of a single year. True. But it may be telling that the message delivered to Cleopatra that kicked off the endgame was "just fight it out amongst yourselves" instead of using that messenger to shove an edict right down her throat.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:21
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Sure. Kyros was able to power 4 edicts in 2 years, but a fifth might have been pushing his capacity or beyond it, so she has the Archons fight instead. The fourth may have already been pushing it, Kyros likely wanted Ashe and Nerat to wear each other down fighting but instead they fumbled the occupation and so Cleopatra gets sent in with the Edict.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:44
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:He's Verse's half-brother, so it makes sense he shares some resemblance to her. They even both have heterochromia. Shouldn't he be really pale from not seeing any sunlight since the Edict?
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Apr 5, 2021 05:04
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I actually really loved the the evil, racist, idiot facist takes off his mask to reveal... He's actually a pretty good looking dude and otherwise normal.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:08
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I wonder if Cleo's edicts die off because she's less powerful, or if it's some secondary thing you need to add in order to place conditions on the edict.
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Apr 5, 2021 06:28
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The Lone Badger posted:Shouldn't he be really pale from not seeing any sunlight since the Edict? that is pale for a greek person
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Apr 5, 2021 07:49
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The Lone Badger posted:Shouldn't he be really pale from not seeing any sunlight since the Edict? There's not much info on the effects of people being trapped in a magical suit of armor made of blended iron that is magically fused to their body.
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Apr 5, 2021 08:48
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It's also possible that Ashe's Aegis kept him in top condition under the armor too. I've forgotten if it's come up early in the LP but it's a real gameplay effect too. If you fight Disfavored forces it can sometimes be a slog since they're in heavy armor and they also regenerate HP slowly over time. Not enough to make a huge difference but it means the last ones standing will probably have taken an extra hit or two.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:24
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bob dobbs is dead posted:that is pale for a greek person Now compare him to Ashe and other disfavored.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:35
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It also hasn't been that long since the Edict.
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Apr 5, 2021 16:28
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Victis posted:I'll vote for the Chorus route and feed anyone we can to Nerat
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Apr 5, 2021 17:30
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I'd like to vote for Disfavored just to showcase how hosed up a lot of things one does for the legion are, with an extra case of REDDIT STYLE KYROS LOYALTY for another helping to make the stupid-sauce complete.
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Apr 5, 2021 23:30
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Ending spoilers. I'm upset that there's no loyal flunky ending they just ends up with you executed once you've stabilizer the region for Kyros if you play the loyal stooge.
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Apr 6, 2021 00:27
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I'm voting for a mostly flesh and steel challenge run. The protagonist cannot use magic.
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Apr 6, 2021 00:43
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The Lone Badger posted:I'm voting for a mostly flesh and steel challenge run. The protagonist cannot use magic. I don't think this is that extra challenging, it just means you bench Barik, actually use some heavy armor yourself instead, and use Eb/Sirin/Lantry the whole run as your mages.
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Apr 6, 2021 01:00
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The Lone Badger posted:I'm voting for a mostly flesh and steel challenge run. The protagonist cannot use magic. That's honestly a really bad idea, various forms of punch wizard can be quite fun to play, but the game is built around magic and will be extremely annoying to play if a no magic run is attempted.
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Apr 6, 2021 02:15
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This isn't supported by any 'lore' in the game at all but I thought it'd be neat if Kyros is just bored, and doesn't really care about outcomes at this point. After 400 years and godlike power, what's the point of sweating the small stuff? It kind of flies in the face of the thesis of the game being about evil instead of destructive apathy, but would be a very Black Company kind of swerve.
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Apr 6, 2021 02:18
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