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Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Combat Pretzel posted:


Oh dear god, one guy is going all :byoscience: in that thread, claiming that downloading photogrammetry and generating geometry and rendering it is a purely sequential task, and things like ATC depend on it, and that's why the framerate is so poo poo.

Not only that, he seems to be claiming that flight simulation can't be multithreaded because everything depends on everything else and there's no way to ensure that tasks will finish processing in a specific order :allears:


quote:

Anything that has to stay in blistering synch to the main task of rendering would take so much extra code to synch it back to the main processes that whatever advantage you gained would be lost. Everything vital has to come through the main core. Code like downloading graphics, building the 3d world from it, grabbing weather, computing ATC is sequential. Task A happens, then task B, then task C because each task relies on the successful completion of the one before it. If you send task B off to another core, task A still has to wait for it to complete before task C can begin. Does that make sense? The only time you can get away with allowing another core to do something for you is if that task is completely separate from the sequential stuff or interacts rarely with the primary tasks. Flight sim code is almost all sequential stuff. Now if you’re multitasking, browsing the internet while your flight sim is running (and ignore the hit on network latency) you can run your other program in another core although it will still be in contention with the FS task since it has to compete for instructions sent to the GPU and other inter-related things.

You have some sequences that have to happen to render a scene, all before the GPU even is utilized.

Transfer of data to and from Asobo servers if you’re using photogrammetry.
Filling in the parts you don’t get fully defined that are stored on your computer hard drives and hopefully in memory. Things like autogen, water features, animations, trees, etc. Composing all of those things together to build the 3d scene complete with lighting positions, fields of view…
Weather info whether real world (another data transfer which is positional dependent) or generated if you have it turned on. I truly doubt most of us fly on cloudless days.
Traffic info (similar to weather)
Aircraft info especially interior with all the guages and real time displays.
Continual interaction with all the possible controls. Many of those code events are highly dependent upon sequence.
ATC (that one you might be able to have some of it such as the audio speech generation happen on another core)
These are just off the top of my head. I’m sure Asobo programmers could add a bunch more steps that have to complete to render even a SINGLE frame to send to the GPU to display and nearly all of those steps are sequential as I described above. You can’t fully display the shadows on the ground until you know where the clouds are above it as well as the dynamics of the terrain and what’s shadowed by the ambient light so you can’t send the cloud calculation off to another core because the next step on the main core has to wait for it to return full info before going on to the next. This is an extreme oversimplification of course and my steps are likely out of sequence.

oh god just imagine what might happen if the cloud dynamics got one frame out of sync with the simulation. Or if the ATC took an extra second to process and it reported the position of a plane slightly behind where it actually was! Immersion loving ruined

God the community is so dumb

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 1, 2021

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JayKay
Sep 11, 2001

And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

Sagebrush posted:



God the community is so dumb

The Internet Makes You Stupid.

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006
The official account of NFL Tackle Phil Loadholt.

Let's talk Football.

Steadiman posted:

I've been trying to figure out DCS so I've been watching tons of videos and the one thing that really stuck with me was that most of the sim pilots all took it insanely seriously (especially in the comments, filled with "well akshually...") but then you watch the people who actually fly these things do poo poo like run into eachother with glee, take off from taxiways while giggling like maniacs, and basically just having a blast doing everything they were never allowed to do in real life. The contrast is amazing.

like this, which made me laugh quite loudly several times (for reference, the guy is/was an actual F18/F16 pilot):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA2-ikfb8SY

I think its a very wannabe culture where they want their sim to be as "real" as possible but they don't actually know what real is. I have a friend is active in the navy who is an F-18 pilot. If he came over and saw me doing flight sim stuff he's not going to poo poo on me for trying stuff but not being 100 percent accurate. Its just the weird old man gatekeeper poo poo and its pretty amusing.

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.
I finally took the time to set up my StreamDeck for MSFS and I really appreciate the FlightTracker extension. Especially their macros for COM and NAV. Single press to swap to standby frequencies, long press takes you into a num pad so you can punch in freq/xpdr codes. It's so much better than trying to do it in the cockpit with a mouse that I'm actually punching in the handoffs from ATC instead of just having it auto set from the radio menu.

This is the profile I've been using, though I'm considering getting rid of COM2 and NAV2 and replacing them with an AP profile to make activating and adjusting the AP easier.


long-press num pad menu for XPDR



soggybagel posted:

I think its a very wannabe culture where they want their sim to be as "real" as possible but they don't actually know what real is. I have a friend is active in the navy who is an F-18 pilot. If he came over and saw me doing flight sim stuff he's not going to poo poo on me for trying stuff but not being 100 percent accurate. Its just the weird old man gatekeeper poo poo and its pretty amusing.

Yeah, most hobbies are like this, but especially military adjacent ones. I saw the same stuff playing airsoft. You have the super armchair mil-sim dudes who needed to be as "real" as possible with thousands of dollars of gear and who go out of their way to poo poo on and gatekeep everyone else, then you have the actual combat vets that are just there to have a fun time and usually go out of their way to help out new players. I really don't get people that gatekeep hobbies, like, why wouldn't you want to share your passion with as many new people as possible? Instead they just try to drive away any new/casual interest with their gatekeeping and sit in their clubhouse of like 10 other assholes talking about that time they totally owned a 10 year old so hard that the kid left crying.

Trillhouse
Dec 31, 2000

soggybagel posted:

I think its a very wannabe culture where they want their sim to be as "real" as possible but they don't actually know what real is. I have a friend is active in the navy who is an F-18 pilot. If he came over and saw me doing flight sim stuff he's not going to poo poo on me for trying stuff but not being 100 percent accurate. Its just the weird old man gatekeeper poo poo and its pretty amusing.

I have a theory that the flight sim posters (guys on flight sim forums, youtube, etc) don't actually play the game, just whine about realism. I saw a post the other day about the F-18 where a newbie asked the innocent question "How do I jettison drop tanks once I'm done with them?" The first half dozen replies were lecturing him on how real pilots don't jettison drop tanks unless they absolutely have to. It took that long before someone just told him how to do it, which is literally three steps.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

soggybagel posted:

I think its a very wannabe culture where they want their sim to be as "real" as possible but they don't actually know what real is.

ding ding ding

It's the community in these types of spergy wargames in general. I remember playing an ArmA 2 mission back in the day and there was one spergy guy who kept yelling at one of his squad members about what he was doing with the M249. You're in the wrong position, you're choosing the wrong targets, not firing in the right sort of bursts, you aren't using the gun correctly, blah blah. Eventually the gunner got fed up and said "look, dude, I carried one of these in Iraq for two years, I think I know what I'm doing."

Or another time when the server was arguing about who should take command of a mission and one guy says "Okay! Okay! Okay look. I think I should be the team lead. I've been in the poo poo at the big airsoft shoot..."

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Apr 1, 2021

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
The first guy through the door into the wooden shack on the airsoft field is never wrong.

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006
The official account of NFL Tackle Phil Loadholt.

Let's talk Football.
There is nothing better than a spergy loser getting put in their place though.

Anime Store Adventure
May 6, 2009


It's so bad in flight sim sometimes too - I can get pretty caught up in trying to be 'authentic' with tubeliner procedures and stuff. Looking up specific questions, you get a ton of exclusively sim-dads weighing in on what THEIR idea of proper procedure is and how it should be done exactly and drown out real pilots whose answer is usually "it doesn't matter/it depends/every pilot/airline does it different" for any number of weird behaviors.

Akion
May 7, 2006
Grimey Drawer
I'm constantly joshing the hardcore guys in the OnAir discord. I fly the bastardized ATR-72 with the CJ4 cockpit and the C-17 with the 747 cockpit just to make their eyes twitch.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Also keep in mind these simmers with $10,000 home cockpit setups could literally have learned to fly a private plane if they so chose, in which case they would have a clue what they are talking about.

E:

Anime Store Adventure posted:

It's so bad in flight sim sometimes too - I can get pretty caught up in trying to be 'authentic' with tubeliner procedures and stuff. Looking up specific questions, you get a ton of exclusively sim-dads weighing in on what THEIR idea of proper procedure is and how it should be done exactly and drown out real pilots whose answer is usually "it doesn't matter/it depends/every pilot/airline does it different" for any number of weird behaviors.

I def remember a real airbus pilot who was streaming and having to argue with some guy, who had never flown a plane, that there's no difference between calling "gear up" and "gear retracted" or whatever and painstakingly explain that it's literally just a case of saying the words in the airline's procedure manual.

Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Apr 3, 2021

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Aren't a lot of those verbose specific call outs mainly just for the blackbox recorder, anyway? For instance the gear up thing, with what hydraulics making a ruckus and there typically being conditionally lit buttons indicating state.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
I try not to go *too* hard on the realism thing, but man the GPS bothers me. Direct-To should work from the flight plan page, you should be able to load an approach without it activating, and when you do activate it, it should sequence from present position. If you fixed those three things, it would be 10 times more useable. If you also had the proper switching of GPS sensitivity for approaches and a glideslope that actually worked, that would be gravy, but not having direct-to implemented properly makes it nearly impossible to simulate an IFR flight.

Perfect procedures and stuff, though? Who gives a poo poo? It's a game, it's supposed to be fun.

Shart Carbuncle
Aug 4, 2004

Star Trek:
The Motion Picture

Scruff McGruff posted:


This is the profile I've been using, though I'm considering getting rid of COM2 and NAV2 and replacing them with an AP profile to make activating and adjusting the AP easier.


long-press num pad menu for XPDR




I saw this on flightsim.to and it prompted me to order a Stream Deck. Glad to get some confirmation that it’s good!

Being able to punch in numbers will be great, but this is what really got my attention:

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

They did do something with that last patch to nerf performance. I noticed some jitteriness on my 9900K w/3090 that I never had before in an area that isn't even super detailed.

Also, flew into KTTS, the space shuttle landing facility. Kennedy Space Center looks like poo poo. You can't even pick out the VAB on approach, it looks like a generic building.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Fortunately the modding community has been quite good about replacing the major missing landmarks.

https://www.msfsaddons.org/freeware/nasa-kennedy-space-center

FunOne
Aug 20, 2000
I am a slimey vat of concentrated stupidity

Fun Shoe
Anyone have an opinion on the VKB joysticks? Thinking about upgrading from the Thrust master Xbox one to something nicer. The xbox one is fine for arcade games but it has a big dead zone and isnt the smoothest thing in the world.

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019

A safety-conscious little mouse!

FunOne posted:

Anyone have an opinion on the VKB joysticks? Thinking about upgrading from the Thrust master Xbox one to something nicer. The xbox one is fine for arcade games but it has a big dead zone and isnt the smoothest thing in the world.

Their tomcat grip is better than virpils. I also like their grip mounting system better. That said, virpil being compatible with Thrustmaster grips is a plus (you can get an adaptor for VKB). I think I might like virpils cams and springs better, but it's marginal.

Tracking and smoothness is very good. I went from a CH fighterstick, and am very pleased.

Shine
Feb 26, 2007

No Muscles For The Majority

FunOne posted:

Anyone have an opinion on the VKB joysticks? Thinking about upgrading from the Thrust master Xbox one to something nicer. The xbox one is fine for arcade games but it has a big dead zone and isnt the smoothest thing in the world.

Night-and-day difference from my old CH Fighterstick. I have both the Gunfighter 2 MCG (mounted in a simpit) and the older Gladiator Mk II (used at my desk) and they're dope.

Anything you get from VKB, Virpil, or even the higher-end Thrustmaster stuff (Warthog, T16000M) will be way the gently caress better than what you're using now, so just get whatever looks appealing and is within your budget. The Gladiator NXT is a superb budget option.

I will say that VKB's Gunfighter MCG (Modern Combat Grip) is really loving big, being a replica of a grip designed for IRL Russian pilots who have large hands and are wearing gloves. Honestly, I think most gamers could do better, ergonomics-wise. The grip they released with space combat in mind, the SCG, feels better, as it was specifically designed for gaming instead of being a replica. There are also some issues with both the SCG and the F-14 grip if you plan to mount them between your legs on a simpit (they don't support as much rotational offset as the MCG, which can be an ergonomics problem for some people), but that's N/A for either using them on a desktop or side-mounted.

tl;dr get the Gladiator NXT. It's a fantastic stick at a budget price (as far as high-end poo poo goes). You can always sell it later (it'll hold quite a bit of value) if you ever want to get into higher-end stuff.

Imaginary Baron
Apr 14, 2010
I’ll echo the NXT recommendation. It was a night and day improvement over my x52 stick and frankly I love it so much I don’t think I’ll ever see the need to upgrade beyond it.

FunOne
Aug 20, 2000
I am a slimey vat of concentrated stupidity

Fun Shoe
NXT Premium ordered and hopefully on its way next week. Thanks everyone.

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

FunOne posted:

NXT Premium ordered and hopefully on its way next week. Thanks everyone.

I specifically got the Gladiator Pro for ergonomic and usability reasons and it's fantastic in that regard. I've got it with the default KG12 grip which is relatively small compared to the MCG and that helps a lot.

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Shart Carbuncle posted:

I saw this on flightsim.to and it prompted me to order a Stream Deck. Glad to get some confirmation that it’s good!

Being able to punch in numbers will be great, but this is what really got my attention:



Just finished a flight after setting up this AP profile and I can confirm it's really nice. Especially helps in the Grumman Goose I've been flying where none of the Nav/AP displays actually work...

Also, I'm late to the VKB chat but will also recommend the Gladiator NXT. Was a massive step up from the controller I was using. I'm also looking forward to the add-on parts they announced too, assuming they ever actually come out...

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!
Has MS Flight Sim gotten any more stable on bad hardware over the past six months? I had a lot of fun with it on release, but I had to give it up because of near-constant CTDs when flying over anything resembling a city. I'm on a Ryzen 5 2600 with a 580, if that matters.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013

Lester Shy posted:

Has MS Flight Sim gotten any more stable on bad hardware over the past six months? I had a lot of fun with it on release, but I had to give it up because of near-constant CTDs when flying over anything resembling a city. I'm on a Ryzen 5 2600 with a 580, if that matters.


What kind of settings? A 580 is nowhere near even medium settings, and if it CTDs over a city, you might be encountering just getting tapped out. How much system memory?

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!
This was with everything as low as possible, during release week, before any patches.

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005
Replaced my X52 with the Thrustmaster Airbus stick + throttle quadrant and boy it makes flying the CRJ a lot easier. Now if only I could find that add-on pack that adds flaps and speed brakes without paying 200% markup. Seems pretty difficult to find it.

lobsterminator
Oct 16, 2012




Lester Shy posted:

Has MS Flight Sim gotten any more stable on bad hardware over the past six months? I had a lot of fun with it on release, but I had to give it up because of near-constant CTDs when flying over anything resembling a city. I'm on a Ryzen 5 2600 with a 580, if that matters.

I have and old i7 and a 580 and 16GB RAM, and it's been fine for me since the start. Fine meaning flight simulator level of "fine" i.e. 20-40 fps depending on the situation.

Well it was fine when I had a 1080p monitor. I upgraded to a 1440p earlier this year and now it's struggling :(

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

lobsterminator posted:

I have and old i7 and a 580 and 16GB RAM, and it's been fine for me since the start. Fine meaning flight simulator level of "fine" i.e. 20-40 fps depending on the situation.

Well it was fine when I had a 1080p monitor. I upgraded to a 1440p earlier this year and now it's struggling :(

This is why you live the dual monitor life and have one of each.

Shart Carbuncle
Aug 4, 2004

Star Trek:
The Motion Picture

Scruff McGruff posted:

Just finished a flight after setting up this AP profile and I can confirm it's really nice. Especially helps in the Grumman Goose I've been flying where none of the Nav/AP displays actually work...


Hah! I actually fly that goose a bunch, and I didn't even think of that.

One in the Bum
Apr 25, 2014

Hair Elf
Are there issues with using AP when the plane is spawned mid-fight? I wanted to practice landings in the a320 so I loaded it up from the map with a destination airport selected, no departure and an ILS selected. Spawned mid air a few miles out. But as soon as I enabled the AP, it banked hard left and just spiraled out of control until it crashed. I was following a youtube guide that made it look simple so I was just trying to see if I could replicate the process.

JayKay
Sep 11, 2001

And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

In another episode of "It Came from Reddit"

SimWorks Studios and Milviz are being hounded because their flight models are 'too realistic' and 'not fun'

The issue has to do with flap speeds and failures and apparently people don't like that. Reminds me a bit of the Spitfire thing posted earlier.

Edit: Ok, this seems to shed a bit more light. And the general thread seems to have become a slap fight between "Sims and Gamers"

quote:

The problem is that Simworks said themselves that they don't have hard data on when it breaks as the number varies due to so many factors. Also, their implementation ignore the sim realism setting so it can cause a lot of confusion (not really their fault though). I think rolling back this particular feature makes sense for the time being until the sim gives more detailed control on damage modeling.

quote:

People seem not to be reading the actual post. Most sim fans should be happy for the reversion. They had hard coded an automated flaps retract into the sim (not a feature of the actual plane). They also added an unavoidable failure that kicked at a specific speed (rather than some more realistic combination of factors)...

JayKay fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Apr 5, 2021

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005

One in the Bum posted:

Are there issues with using AP when the plane is spawned mid-fight? I wanted to practice landings in the a320 so I loaded it up from the map with a destination airport selected, no departure and an ILS selected. Spawned mid air a few miles out. But as soon as I enabled the AP, it banked hard left and just spiraled out of control until it crashed. I was following a youtube guide that made it look simple so I was just trying to see if I could replicate the process.

Set your joystick deadzones to around 5-10%, I've heard this fixes the AP banking hard issue for a lot of people.

Beef Of Ages
Jan 11, 2003

Your dumb is leaking.
MSFS has a 17GB update this morning. Let's see what fresh new hell awaits.

Anime Store Adventure
May 6, 2009


quote:

INPUT:

Honeycomb device 10 degrees heading issue has been fixed

:woop:

JayKay
Sep 11, 2001

And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

Big if true

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
Bonjour!

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RELEASE NOTES 1.14.5.0
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INPUT:

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Autopilot has been fixed in the second tutorial

:siren: Liveries!

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004


Very relevant to pretty much everyone in this thread. :P

Theris
Oct 9, 2007

Zero One posted:

Autopilot has been fixed in the second tutorial

I'm guessing that's for this:
https://twitter.com/halkyardo/status/1381384573855145984

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
lol Pont de Wandre.

That thing is not far from here, and while it might look nice, it'll probably go under in the ugly autogen geometry (and I don't expect better, since the Bing satellite imagery is still the same). Also, the city around it is ugly AF. Think Beverly Hills Cop Chicago.

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