|
BrainDance posted:I feel like this is really the conclusion most people on SA have come to, lol. You do not even say a word about Xinjiang unless you're ready to have a dozen really angry, really strongly opinionated people assume a whole lot and just blow the gently caress up on you. It's like, you could go to stormfront and argue against nazis or whatever, and you'd be right, but is it worth it? I think a comforting fact about this topic is that the second anyone starts talking about France, the US, Sweden in the 19th century or whatever, as if that changes anything, you can just comfortably assume that they're a bad faith troll and stop reading. Because it's either that or they're actually pro-genocide. Rabelais D posted:I think this was an interesting post but I thought that China very vocally did deny the existence of camps until it could do so no longer, then the narrative switched to yes, there are camps, but actually they are the good kind of camp (that you cannot leave of your own volition). No that's not it. We have known beyond reasonable doubt that this was happening for two years already, that's not why they flipped the script. What has changed is that the EU has reached the tipping point where they can no longer pretend this isn't happening which has forced the CPC's hand. That's why there's been so many clumsy attempts at rhetoric and intimidation in the last month, there are diplomatic repercussions coming if they don't dig themselves out of this hole. Of course they could just end the policy but we all know how the CPC feels about backing down on anything. EDIT: Reminder that just four months ago Merkel was forcing the China-EU investment deal through the proper channels in spite of being fully aware what was about to come. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Apr 5, 2021 |
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 06:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 11:43 |
|
|
Yeah, the way they attempted to positive-face happy cotton picking field labor uyghurs out in the open on their own official channels just feels like the worst and most brazen kind of double down.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 06:42
|
|
|
Yeah, same with the targetted sanctions at MEP:s two weeks ago.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 06:46
|
|
|
Rabelais D posted:I think this was an interesting post but I thought that China very vocally did deny the existence of camps until it could do so no longer, then the narrative switched to yes, there are camps, but actually they are the good kind of camp (that you cannot leave of your own volition). that is my rough understanding as well - external pressure in 2018 forced the central govt to tone down the eliminationist rhetoric and to compel the Xinjiang regional govt to give the campaign an image more palatable to foreign audiences rather than domestic audiences I'm not particularly invested in terms of posting  to die on that hill however. I will settle for noting that it is the Chinese government position now so the camp-existence or camp-magnitude denial that was once popular ITT is moot
ronya fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Apr 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 07:17
|
|
|
Hang on, googled the names of multiple people who wrote that and I realized that it's a think-tank and a few of the citations ring alarm bells, so I'mma assume this is just the version of having a Guantanamo interrogator lie about being an activist and then keep lying when questioned about torture and forced rectal feeding of ham. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Apr 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 07:23
|
|
|
i dont think anyone in the thread has claimed that the camps do not exist, i just keep reading that theres a genocide going and uighurs are being harvested for organs and hair, and so on... and being that concentration camps are nowadays an accepted part of modern western society, it seems a bit much to argue for economic blockade based on something that americans are themselves doing at this very moment what am supposed to believe is happening in those camps when every time it turns out to be an american regime change op behind the info, and it keeps turning out that the most outrageous claims are bullshit
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 08:41
|
|
|
brotha from anatha posted:and being that concentration camps are nowadays an accepted part of modern western society Hello yes please provide proof of this statement. Without smug references to Joe Biden, please, because the US does not equal the entirety of "modern western society".
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 08:54
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:Hello yes please provide proof of this statement. Without smug references to Joe Biden, please, because the US does not equal the entirety of "modern western society". well, if nobody in power across the west is criticising them for their concentration camps, nevermind to the same extent as china is being, doesnt that make them accepted? idk, thats how i interpret the word 'acceptable' there might be another word for it
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 09:13
|
|
|
Ah if one thing bad then no thing bad. Very wise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 09:18
|
|
|
brotha from anatha posted:what am supposed to believe is happening in those camps when every time it turns out to be an american regime change op behind the info, and it keeps turning out that the most outrageous claims are bullshit You could start with the report I posted. Even if you don't trust the writers for whatever reason, every claim is sourced.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 09:25
|
|
|
brotha from anatha posted:well, if nobody in power across the west is criticising them for their concentration camps, nevermind to the same extent as china is being, doesnt that make them accepted? idk, thats how i interpret the word 'acceptable' there might be another word for it This thread isn't about the west. You're sealioning. You don't care about concentration camps in the US, and you don't care about the welfare of immigrants being held in detention centers. You only bring them up to create a sense of equivalence. 'Hey look, the US does this as well, so that makes it fine, especially since nobody in the west criticises them for that!' You don't bring it up out of a sense of moral superiority. You bring it up to create a sense of moral nullification. The message you're trying to convey is 'It is terrible, but so is everything, there is no moral high ground'. And this is where the conversation gets lost. Because some posters see genocide happening, irrefutable, plain, simple genocide, and they feel a sense of moral disgust. And some other posters see genocide happen, but they don't have the same sense of disgust. The morality of the situation isn't something that gets factored into their thinking. And really, at the heart of it, the reality of the matter doesn't really matter to those posters either. Somehow, they've detached themselves not just from their sense of human decency, but also from needing truth. Everything is unclear, anything is untrue, even what my side says is lies, but everybody else lies too. The truth, base reality, doesn't matter. Nobody knows what it is, so it doesn't matter. It's unclear. Is there any solid, irrefutable proof either way? It could be the Uighurs genociding themselves out of spite for all we know. Let's talk about how talking about Uighur genocide is western hypocrisy instead. And that is what you just don't get. You've somehow in your mind de-personed not just the Uighurs being genocided, and the immigrants in detention at the US border, but every human being who has ever had to face state persecution. The bureaucratic hum-drummery with which it is enacted somehow legitimizes it in your eyes, and turns it all into great game politics. It is as if you read The Trial by Kafka and concluded that the system is the hero. You come here to spew this filth and 'muddy the waters', because you have no understanding of why people are disgusted and enraged at genocide. You don't care about it. It's just a thing that happens, part of how the system works, and 'right and wrong' don't make any sense when it comes to national strategy, because hey, the world is a rough place, right? This is also where that tone-deaf propaganda on twitter comes from. People are supposed to see it and go 'oh yes that looks like cotton picking in the antebellum south, but a bit better, so we should shut up otherwise we'll look like hypocrites because when we did that, we did it worse'. Instead, they go 'that was terrible and morally wrong when we did it, and it is morally wrong now, when someone else does it'. The propaganda isn't supposed to placate you by telling you 'there is no genocide, the Uighurs are happy'. It's supposed to placate you by telling you 'we're doing what you did, but we're doing it more nicely'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 13:01
|
|
|
I think it's reasonable to criticize governments that put sanctions on China because of their concentration camps but not America because of our concentration camps. That is obviously using the concentration camps as an excuse for other political ends. A person can point that out without being a sociopathic soul-dead Twtitter destroyer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 13:28
|
|
|
It's a very emotive topic so I think discussion too often breaks down into 'you agree with me 100% or you're literally an apologist for crimes against humanity/a CIA-brainwashed dumbass (delete as appropriate)' which just ends up with people talking past one another. I think it's quite obvious that something is happening in Xinjiang, and that whatever that is is Not Good. I also think it's absolutely true that there is a huge propaganda effort on the part of the USA and its allies to make whatever is happening seem as bad as it is possible to be at all times, because it's no conspiracy theory to say that this has been the tried and trusted playbook in manufacturing consent forever, and some of the evidence provided in support of the most egregious accusations is demonstrably suspect. See also that this did not become such a hot button issue until diplomatic relations became strained. Occam's razor suggests that we're seeing an inflexible authoritarian bureaucratic state acting like an inflexible authoritarian bureaucratic state because of a perceived secessionist threat directly intertwined with the growth of CCP-hostile radical Islamic ideology within the region in question. This is a blunt hammer approach that is almost certainly going to do a lot of damage (and is probably counterproductive in the long term), and its crude inflexibility means all local Muslims become objects of suspicion. Nonetheless, its not the deliberate destruction of an ethnic group - China has hundreds of non-Han ethnic groups and tons of non-Uyghur Muslims. There is literally no reason whatsoever that Xi would wake up one morning and decide to embark on an eradication campaign against this one particular group just because he felt like it. Now I'm not saying that government policy isn't harming Uyghur people disproportionately. It almost certainly is. But it's doing so isn't the actual goal. The issue here is that genocide is a very very loaded term that implies a certain intentionality, and that isn't a meaningless academic point. There is a world of difference between authoritarian overreach loving people over through ineptitude or apathy, and an overt policy of eradication.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 13:56
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:I think it's reasonable to criticize governments that put sanctions on China because of their concentration camps but not America because of our concentration camps. Why? They're never ever going to sanction the US, for obvious reasons (they're allies, the US is too powerful etc.). In which case, I'll take "action against crimes against humanity" over "intellectual consistency" any day of the week.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:07
|
|
|
It is an overt policy of eradication though. Edit: Directed at Thomaspaine MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:07
|
|
|
Definitely wouldn't want to be an Uygher in Xinjiang right now. Also would not want to be an African American in the Antebellum South. Would definitely opt for someplace else in either situation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:14
|
|
|
In the US there are also a sizeable number of individuals and organisations loudly lobbying to put an end to ICE camps and Gitmo and whatnot. You absolutely do not get that in China because such individuals would be silenced and or thrown in jail and human rights organisations are also completely neutered. Outside of Xinjiang nobody in China seems to care either because the state-run propaganda machine is so efficient.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:35
|
|
|
Rabelais D posted:In the US there are also a sizeable number of individuals and organisations loudly lobbying to put an end to ICE camps and Gitmo and whatnot. You absolutely do not get that in China because such individuals would be silenced and or thrown in jail and human rights organisations are also completely neutered. Outside of Xinjiang nobody in China seems to care either because the state-run propaganda machine is so efficient. Given that Gitmo and the ICE camps are still open despite repeated promises to close both, what value do you see in the lobbying of sizeable numbers of individuals and organizations?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:40
|
|
|
Stringent posted:Given that Gitmo and the ICE camps are still open despite repeated promises to close both, what value do you see in the lobbying of sizeable numbers of individuals and organizations? Good point. So it’s better if nothing was done at all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:46
|
|
|
Stringent posted:Given that Gitmo and the ICE camps are still open despite repeated promises to close both, what value do you see in the lobbying of sizeable numbers of individuals and organizations? lol are we going to have to actually post the sealion-comic. If feel like this one deserves it for how utterly dumb and uncreative it is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:49
|
|
|
This just in: governments are bad. Do you think it preferable that the state locks people away simply for belonging to a certain ethnic group and that nobody is allowed to either know about it or speak up about it if they do?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:49
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:lol are we going to have to actually post the sealion-comic. If feel like this one deserves it for how utterly dumb and uncreative it is. Are you sure you're thinking of the right funny talking animal comic? I'm not sure how The Sea Lion Comic is apposite in this specific concentration camp discussion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 14:56
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:Occam's razor suggests that we're seeing an inflexible authoritarian bureaucratic state acting like an inflexible authoritarian bureaucratic state because of a perceived secessionist threat directly intertwined with the growth of CCP-hostile radical Islamic ideology within the region in question. This is a blunt hammer approach that is almost certainly going to do a lot of damage (and is probably counterproductive in the long term), and its crude inflexibility means all local Muslims become objects of suspicion. Nonetheless, its not the deliberate destruction of an ethnic group - China has hundreds of non-Han ethnic groups and tons of non-Uyghur Muslims. There is literally no reason whatsoever that Xi would wake up one morning and decide to embark on an eradication campaign against this one particular group just because he felt like it... whynotboth.jpg China does have a concrete reason to brutally suppress breakaway nationalist identities on its borders: official and party intellectual speeches repeatedly cite the dissolution of the Soviet Union as a warning on tolerating border nationalism Hui people in the northwest are not breaking away, but Uighur nationalists are, so their identification as a separate national people (as opposed to just one of 55 ethnicities with <1% representation each) must be destroyed
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 15:15
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:It is an overt policy of eradication though. This is kinda my point - you say that in the absence of any proof of intentionality as if it was a self-evident truth, and implicitly suggest that anyone who takes issue is a genocide apologist. I'll almost certainly get a bunch of posters calling me a piece of poo poo for even questioning that the CCP is basically doing a Hitler. Conversely, I also get Tankie LARPers telling me I'm a CIA asset because I don't think the Chinese state actually just decided to open a chain of Butlins parks across Xinjiang. The discourse around the whole issue is so toxic that there basically isn't any, just a load of dumbasses throwing poo poo at one another. This is extremely bad because it forces you to pick one side of a binary that's nakedly ridiculous, which lets both players off the hook because everything's so wrapped up in an absolutism that everyone knows is horseshit. I feel like going full 'CCP is literally doing a deliberate ethnic cleansing rather than responding with disproportionate blunt force to a threat to China's integrity' needs to be pretty robustly argued otherwise you literally hand ammunition to the pro-Beijing camp that they use to head off legitimate criticism of their poorly implemented and deeply insensitive authoritarianism. And the exact same applies the other way round - I'm certain that Western interests have very deliberately fanned the flames and engaged in propaganda vs. the Chinese state on the issue, but the idea that the whole thing was imagined up by US intelligence and D.C. thinktanks is clearly nonsense, and saying as much just discredits real criticism of NATO foreign policy. ronya posted:whynotboth.jpg I suppose the go-to comparison should be less the Holocaust and more Turkish policy towards Kurdish separatism, in that sense. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Apr 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:There is literally no reason whatsoever that Xi would wake up one morning and decide to embark on an eradication campaign against this one particular group just because he felt like it. I just want to highlight this section of your post because of how awful it is, and point out that one of the classic tropes of Holocaust denial is to point out that it was illogical of a country at war to devote resources to a genocide, therefore it must not've happened! And as people have pointed out, there s a logic to it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 15:41
|
|
|
We cannot control what governments do, but we should at least have the power to inform ourselves, take moral positions, and to speak out if we think it right. I don't think China is uniquely bad at all but it has probably the world's most sophisticated domestic propaganda machine and (as a proponent of Sapir-Whorf) I think this is both worrying and dangerous.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 15:44
|
|
|
You have a point, however I do think the question of intentionality isn't all that important compared to the issue of what exactly is happening and what, if anything, can be done to stop it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 15:48
|
|
|
Okay, two things: 1. There's been plenty of proof. Absolutely overwhelming amounts of documentation, journalistic investigations, reports, photo, film, satellite imagery, thousands of direct testimonials and overt statements by CPC officials. Whether you want to call it genocide or "responding with disproportionate blunt force to a threat to China's integrity" (  ) you're only benefiting one part of this equation by playing the semantics game. We're past the point were intent matters, it is very clear what the result is. 2. I'm just going to leave this learning resource on how use paragraphs here. Please read it and apply it in future attempts at writing: https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-and-tools/paragraphs/ Owlspiracy posted:I just want to highlight this section of your post because of how awful it is, and point out that one of the classic tropes of Holocaust denial is to point out that it was illogical of a country at war to devote resources to a genocide, therefore it must not've happened! And as people have pointed out, there s a logic to it. Yes. It is a core constituency of holocaust denial.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 15:52
|
|
|
Owlspiracy posted:I just want to highlight this section of your post because of how awful it is, and point out that one of the classic tropes of Holocaust denial is to point out that it was illogical of a country at war to devote resources to a genocide, therefore it must not've happened! And as people have pointed out, there s a logic to it. Oh give over with the false equivalences. Yeah, funnily enough this makes sense in the context of the holocaust because weirdass eugenics and race science and the idea that Jews were subhuman inferiors (and yet also terrifying, devious corrupting influences, of course) were foundational components of the whole ideology of national socialism. Of course the Nazis diverted resources to genocide because genocide was literally the end goal they were working towards. But, you know, if there's some part of Xi Jinping thought where he lays out in excruciating detail why Uyghurs as a people are the root of all of China's problems and need to be stamped out like vermin please do let me know. Daduzi posted:You have a point, however I do think the question of intentionality isn't all that important compared to the issue of what exactly is happening and what, if anything, can be done to stop it. I agree in principle, but I feel that understanding exactly what is happening and why that is is a necessary prerequisite to forming a proper strategy for dealing with it, and failing in this will probably do more harm than good in the long run. What exactly is the plan here, beyond both sides yelling that the other is the Worst Person with zero attempt at good-faith dialogue? Nothing materially changes in Xinjiang regardless. I feel like de-escalating the rhetoric would be a good first step, rather than both camps just doubling down at each other for all of eternity. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
Intentionality is integral because that is what underpins genocide in international law, which then impacts the subsequent questions. ThomasPaine posted:I suppose the go-to comparison should be less the Holocaust and more Turkish policy towards Kurdish separatism, in that sense. It's a continuum spanning forced assimilation (which is the Chinese official position) to the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, one supposes. Albeit the Chinese are not simultaneously fighting a losing war and are therefore not in a hurry.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:02
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:I agree in principle, but I feel that understanding exactly what is happening and why that is is a necessary prerequisite to forming a proper strategy for dealing with it, and failing in this will probably do more harm than good in the long run. It's Beijing, you kind of have to set "why that is" to one side. Nobody outside the inner circle really knows why the decisions that are made are made. Either way, whether what's going on in Xinjiang is a deliberate policy of extermination or an overzealous attempt at integration that happens to end up looking a lot like deliberate extermination, it doesn't much change how it should be approached. Which is piling on enough economic pain that the policy becomes unsustainable. Not that I'm holding my breath that will happen, mind. ronya posted:Intentionality is integral because that is what underpins genocide in international law, which then impacts the subsequent questions. I'm kind of operating on the assumption that international law is not going to be invoked to a meaningful degree, barring a complete collapse of the Chinese state. Daduzi fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:07
|
|
|
Daduzi posted:Either way, whether what's going on in Xinjiang is a deliberate policy of extermination or an overzealous attempt at integration that happens to end up looking a lot like deliberate extermination, it doesn't much change how it should be approached. Which is piling on enough economic pain that the policy becomes unsustainable. Not that I'm holding my breath that will happen, mind. Powerful interests in the EU is firmly on that side of the argument (the auto industry for instance) which is why this hasn't really popped in international politics until very recently. Everyone knows that there is tremendous economic pain in going alone against China. But when you add up the ongoing genocide, everything going on with Hong Kong and the several very vocal Chinese ambassadors in EU-media there is actually a non-trivial chance of things escalating. China's bumbling diplomatic game in the last few months could aggravate enough MEP:s or member state governments to make things play the other way irregardless of what those interests think. Daduzi posted:I'm kind of operating on the assumption that international law is not going to be invoked to a meaningful degree, barring a complete collapse of the Chinese state. Yeah barring the complete collapse of the regime this will never ever see a courtroom. Like almost everything that happens in international politics, this is not a legal question.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Daduzi posted:You could start with the report I posted. Even if you don't trust the writers for whatever reason, every claim is sourced. "136 For a list of documented deaths within the camps, see Xinjiang Victims Database, https://shahit.biz/eng/#lists" clicking it, who comes up but adrian zenz. the apocalyptic nutcase himself is referenced 42 times in the document itself. yeahh.... gonna go with a big rear end nope on this report. do you have anything that doesnt rely on insane weirdos? i can keep going through this, but im not exactly filled with trust already at this point. and if you'll excuse me, i do not consider asia free radio or other US state reports as reliable. you know, after having been lied to repeatedly over my entire life about every single claim of genocide ever made by these genocidal regime change fuckheads, i have hard time believing people like adrian zenz there are plenty of extremely good reasons not to believe anything coming out this government, and until somebody unassociated with the leading mass murderers on earth, i think im going to reserve an extremely small bottle of doubt over all these claims of intentional genocide. i know, this makes me a horrible genocide supporting monster without empathy or morality, but if you want to convince me over this, i think youre going to have to find a report that doesnt reference habitual liars
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:21
|
|
|
Daduzi posted:I'm kind of operating on the assumption that international law is not going to be invoked to a meaningful degree, barring a complete collapse of the Chinese state. Probably something more akin to pressuring the Chinese central government to imposing more oversight on the provincial government and giving it some legal basis and accountability to the center, rather than none at all These things do have material impacts on how bureaucracies function on the ground the Xi administration isn't going to leave off a conviction that Xinjiang is a timebomb that must be defused ASAP, but it would probably do so more gently if it felt that any other course is too embarrassing
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:23
|
|
|
brotha from anatha posted:after having been lied to repeatedly over my entire life about every single claim of genocide ever made by these genocidal regime change fuckheads Like what, exactly? In b4 Kuwait incubators, lol.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
if you're going to use historical claims of genocide as a basis for judging the existence of a genocide in china then you're actually arguing that a genocide is happening, because the historical record is filled with countries - including the united states - pretending that a genocide isn't happening to excuse their own inaction or justify their continued relationship with the perpetrator of the genocide. rwanda is the best example of this, of course, but there's others. the good news though is that none of us are congressional officials so its ok for us to say something is a genocide when it's... a genocide, without fear that we're contributing to a new cold war.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Like what, exactly? Sorry, that was trollish of me. What I should have said is what I said in a older post in this thread: Silver2195 posted:Also, in general, journalistic reports of systematic human rights abuses, especially in peacetime, are true. False atrocity propoganda tends to focus on sensational acts of direct violence (e.g., WWI German soldiers eating babies, Saddam Hussein's wood chipper).
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
brotha from anatha posted:somebody unassociated with the leading mass murderers on earth, Who would that be, exactly? e: also I quickly double checked and I think you had a copy-paste error. Here's the full citation you partially quoted: quote:136 For a list of documented deaths within the camps, see Xinjiang Victims Database, https://shahit.biz/eng/#lists. Daduzi fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Apr 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 16:41
|
|
|
I've seen some instances where the Chinese government has claimed that their measures in Xinjiang are a necessary response to terrorist threats, which combined with general racism really makes the whole thing seem more familiar and not like some uniquely Chinese thing. Seems like the sort of thing that could easily have happened in the US or France in the last 20 years if it weren't for the fact that those countries have built-in civil protections for their citizens. India was actually in the process of building mass-detention camps intended for muslims, but they needed to strip muslims of their citizenship first, and the big program to do that apparently died or got shelved after the pandemic hit. It's not a surprise that something similar had already started in a country without the pretense towards democracy or civil protections and so lacked the need for a major procedural step or broad public support.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 11:43 |
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:I've seen some instances where the Chinese government has claimed that their measures in Xinjiang are a necessary response to terrorist threats, which combined with general racism really makes the whole thing seem more familiar and not like some uniquely Chinese thing. Seems like the sort of thing that could easily have happened in the US or France in the last 20 years if it weren't for the fact that those countries have built-in civil protections for their citizens. I like this article for putting the camps in Xinjiang into a global context: https://lausan.hk/2020/camps-in-xinjiang-global-problem/ (https://madeinchinajournal.com/2019/07/09/good-and-bad-muslims-in-xinjiang/ is linked in that article and dives a bit deeper).
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 17:59
|
|
