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GCValentine posted:A metered approach where the game suggests bits of tutorials to you over time after playing certain amounts that would probably be the best way to help people eventually learn stuff, like how all the different blocking methods are useful, without overwhelming them at first.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:36
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there is no amount of tutorializing that could take a player from 'barely ever played a fighting game' to 'able to compete with even mediocre players online', it is something that can only be learned through losing dozens of times. barring inventing the world's most advanced ai that can perfectly replicate human play and adjust its skill level to be a fair match for the player while still pressuring them enough to force them to learn, it isn't a solvable problem. the will to learn and acceptance of losing over and over at first has to already be there. the best fighting game tutorial would be a pop-up that says 'you are going to get your rear end kicked' when you select netplay
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Apr 6, 2021 23:37
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they need to make it fill meters and level you up and unlock poo poo after each match, win or lose
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Apr 6, 2021 23:51
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Endorph posted:there is no amount of tutorializing that could take a player from 'barely ever played a fighting game' to 'able to compete with even mediocre players online', it is something that can only be learned through losing dozens of times. barring inventing the world's most advanced ai that can perfectly replicate human play and adjust its skill level to be a fair match for the player while still pressuring them enough to force them to learn, it isn't a solvable problem. the will to learn and acceptance of losing over and over at first has to already be there. i feel like a huge poo poo for saying this sort of stuff but it definitely feels true. like i don't know how to not sound like a Gatekeeper by saying "sorry, the multiplayer in this video game is only going to be appealing for a small number of people who play games, and that's a good thing, not something to be fixed", but i feel like the past decade of developers (some more than others) genuinely trying to onboard people in various ways has shown that this is probably the case. but it still makes me feel like a jerk to say, idk.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:56
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What's the best wrestling game on Gamecube? I want something like those AKI N64 ones.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:58
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Endorph posted:there is no amount of tutorializing that could take a player from 'barely ever played a fighting game' to 'able to compete with even mediocre players online', it is something that can only be learned through losing dozens of times. barring inventing the world's most advanced ai that can perfectly replicate human play and adjust its skill level to be a fair match for the player while still pressuring them enough to force them to learn, it isn't a solvable problem. the will to learn and acceptance of losing over and over at first has to already be there. I totally agree with all of this, fighting games will continue to be niche as long as most gamers just want to sit back and win some, lose some. Anyone can see high-level play and think "I wanna do that!" But only a certain type of person will be willing to put in the hours and rear end-kickings in order to play at that level. b_d posted:they need to make it fill meters and level you up and unlock poo poo after each match, win or lose This is a good idea, people like filling bars. Japanese devs could maybe learn something from brawlhalla, it's free and has tons of players and lots of cosmetics to get. I can understand if a traditional JP dev doesn't want to make the jump to f2p and all the baggage that comes with it, but it might be the way of the future as a way of getting competitive-minded players on board.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:59
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Whether or not it's fruitless ultimately developers are still never going to stop trying because "we're not trying to expand our install base" is not something you can really pitch to a board or investors.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:03
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SeANMcBAY posted:What's the best wrestling game on Gamecube? I want something like those AKI N64 ones.  Literally an AKI wrestling game
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Apr 7, 2021 00:05
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i mean, i think you can expand the userbase, you just need to be honest about what players should expect going in. ofc 'expanding the active playerbase' and 'getting more sales' are two different goals.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:13
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Why have wrestling games gone so far down hill? I'd figure WWE would like people to buy their products? Looking forward to that AEW game though.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:16
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Geo Fixer posted:Why have wrestling games gone so far down hill? I'd figure WWE would like people to buy their products? Looking forward to that AEW game though. people will buy wwe games regardless of the quality of the games
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Apr 7, 2021 00:17
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They previewed Rose. She doesn't have Reflect anymore, that's sad. She does have a teleport now, and V-Skill orbs, so you win some, you lose some. Her cr.MP looks like poo poo tho.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:21
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Dias posted:They previewed Rose. She doesn't have Reflect anymore, that's sad. She does have a teleport now, and V-Skill orbs, so you win some, you lose some. forget that poo poo akira has air combos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOdgfo7OaLI
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Apr 7, 2021 00:25
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Countblanc posted:i feel like a huge poo poo for saying this sort of stuff but it definitely feels true. like i don't know how to not sound like a Gatekeeper by saying "sorry, the multiplayer in this video game is only going to be appealing for a small number of people who play games, and that's a good thing, not something to be fixed", but i feel like the past decade of developers (some more than others) genuinely trying to onboard people in various ways has shown that this is probably the case. A lot of people in this position want the gratification of single-player games, which is funny because a lot of people at the far end of the bell curve also want single-player games but in a completely different context.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:28
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Streets of Rage 4 and River City Girls are both very good modern recommendations for gamers who want to play fighting games but don't want to lose to human players until they start to get their bearings.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:29
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Blockhouse posted:forget that poo poo akira has air combos typical weeb poo poo preferring a school girl over a mature and powerful woman
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Apr 7, 2021 00:31
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A post match analysis with the option to view a replay or lab out parts of the match would be cool. It could be pretty basic stuff too. "Hey, you kept getting hit because you were pushing buttons at a frame disadvantage " "You got crossed up 3 times, would you like to see the setup?"
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Apr 7, 2021 00:32
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Xand_Man posted:A post match analysis with the option to view a replay or lab out parts of the match would be cool. It could be pretty basic stuff too. Oh yes. The way to win over new players is adding Clippy to help you learn fighting games. Your intentions are good but you would go down in history as the greatest of villains.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:35
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Xand_Man posted:A post match analysis with the option to view a replay or lab out parts of the match would be cool. It could be pretty basic stuff too. agreed, every game should have BLC-style damage done/received metrics
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Apr 7, 2021 00:48
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Xand_Man posted:A post match analysis with the option to view a replay or lab out parts of the match would be cool. It could be pretty basic stuff too. +r added a feature where you can go back to the replay and take control of either player to see what options would beat whatever you got hit by and it's honestly revolutionary. I wish this was the standard for every fighting game going forward.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:50
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Mr. Locke posted:Oh yes. The way to win over new players is adding Clippy to help you learn fighting games. Yeah, those stats should be tracked for those who want them, but shoving them in the player's face after each round would tremendously add to frustration, which is the opposite of what you'd want to do to keep people from leaving. SF5 tried to do something like this with the post match stats screen, but those are A) so vague that they're meaningless and B) add a lot of unskippable delay between matches. The question for retention shouldn't really be how do you get 100% player retention, but that if you assume 1% of people will stick around, what can you do to make it 2%. You can want a community of players who only have the true warrior's spirit, but if only 10 people are playing your game, it'll hardly matter.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:56
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Xand_Man posted:A post match analysis with the option to view a replay or lab out parts of the match would be cool. It could be pretty basic stuff too. Tekken 7 kind of has a basic version of this in the Tips feature of its Replay function. It will pause the replay and say something like 'instead of getting your rear end kicked, you should have whiff punished here' complete with suggested move.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:02
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Geo Fixer posted:Why have wrestling games gone so far down hill? I'd figure WWE would like people to buy their products? Looking forward to that AEW game though. For too long, WWE was the only game in town and that wasn't going to work out in the long run. WWE mainly released the same type of game on an annual basis while the bugs and developer issues piled up until it imploded. As long as they could release mediocre crap, they knew that they could make money (which is WWE summed up, honestly). In the past 10-15 years, they only released a few attempts to shake things up. One was Legends of WrestleMania, which was a failed experiment made of quicktime events that just didn't do so well. The other was the over-the-top WWE All-Stars, which was well-regarded, but didn't sell enough for a sequel. Recently they released WWE Battlegrounds, which was sort of an attempt to bring back All-Star's style, but it felt too stripped down and dependent on DLC unlockables. There was also the NetherRealm WWE mobile game, but that wasn't really wrestling. In recent years, we've seen more attempts from non-WWE companies to release something of worth. - Fire Pro came back, which is more fun for simming matches than actually playing it. - The McDickie games, which are more like the Goat Simulator of the wrestling genre. - Retromania, the 30-years-later sequel to Wrestlefest, which has a roster of legends and indie wrestlers that's out of date enough that they've been signed to all the bigger promotions by now. It's fun, but like with the original arcade game, there's only so much time you can put into it when you have regular access to it. - CHIKARA Action Arcade Wrestling was like a half-finished AKI game made by one guy with a really strong create-a-wrestler system. It's since become Action Arcade Wrestling after the promotion CHIKARA got MeToo'd into oblivion. - And now we have AEW's game, which is seen as humanity's last hope. It's too early to say how it's going to be, but they're really going strong with how much they want it to be like No Mercy and that's a good thing.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:28
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mango sentinel posted:
Thanks. This looks rad.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:33
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Get whichever one had John Cena rapping the commercial
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Apr 7, 2021 01:44
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chumbler posted:Yeah, those stats should be tracked for those who want them, but shoving them in the player's face after each round would tremendously add to frustration, which is the opposite of what you'd want to do to keep people from leaving. SF5 tried to do something like this with the post match stats screen, but those are A) so vague that they're meaningless and B) add a lot of unskippable delay between matches. The main issue is that online play in fighting games is a lonely and isolating experience. The general gameplay loop has barely changed since SFIV - either you play ranked against faceless opponents (which depending on what statistics you believe anywhere from 50-90% of players will never even touch) or try to find somebody in Free Play (the UX around this isn't very accomodating). People like to point to team games and say well in fighting games you only have to blame yourself when you lose, but I don't think that captures the complete picture. I think it's more accurate that even when you let the team down you get to suck poo poo together If you compare it to the arcade scene in days gone, you have ready access to multiple stations, even when you're not actively playing the game you can still surf between machines and see what other people are up to and shoot the poo poo / talk poo poo with passersby, and it's really easy to see where all the energy in the room is cause everybody is crowded around a hot setup. GGPO/Fightcade capture this spirit much closer due to fast text chat and matching and spectating and as a result the culture around that online experience is much more developed.
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Apr 7, 2021 02:00
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Dias posted:They previewed Rose. She doesn't have Reflect anymore, that's sad. She does have a teleport now, and V-Skill orbs, so you win some, you lose some. Wow, you're not kidding about her cr.MP, it looks awful. She looks hella fun, though. She has a lot of new tools to play with, and although I've never been good with teleport mix-ups, I'll definitely give it a shot
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Apr 7, 2021 02:37
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Half the reason I even went to the arcade in the 90s was to hide from my folks and smoke cigarettes, maybe score a bag. Fighting games just happened to be there, but it worked.
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Apr 7, 2021 02:38
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i can't get the strive theme out of my head, please help i spilt the game on the carpet and the smell is everywhere
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Apr 7, 2021 03:05
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Yinlock posted:i can't get the strive theme out of my head, please help That is bullshit
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Apr 7, 2021 03:25
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I've had a Razer Panthera for a little while now, but am thinking about picking up the ~$90 8BitDo Arcade Stick because 1) would be nice to have something smaller that's better than my Hori Mini 3, and because 2) I recently came into a Switch and being able to play fighting games on it with a stick would be neat. It also being 2.4G/BT capable is convenient when I just wanna romp through arcade/story modes on my PC. I know a few goons picked it up; those of you who have, how have you been liking it thus far? I don't plan to mod it or anything, since I read the stock lever/buttons are pretty good.
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Apr 7, 2021 03:33
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Endorph posted:people will buy wwe games regardless of the quality of the games WWE 2K20 is the one that proved otherwise, apparently its one of the worst selling main wwe games
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Apr 7, 2021 04:28
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KungFu Grip posted:WWE 2K20 is the one that proved otherwise, apparently its one of the worst selling main wwe games Yeah that was the result of the last couple installments having at least a couple significant gripes each and then 2K20 coming out hilariously busted as usual as well.
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Apr 7, 2021 04:32
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My absolute favourite thing was WWE 2k20 not working in the year 2020.
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Apr 7, 2021 04:35
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Okay I take back what I said about Rose it looks like they actually made her fun to play
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Apr 7, 2021 04:39
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maybe fighting games should fun singleplayer modes you can put a lot of time into hunting down all the weird endings in ggxx or doing the weapon master stuff in soulcal2 is a great time. it's probably what most people did forever before even playing other human people lol unless you had an arcade.
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Apr 7, 2021 06:26
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Soul Calibur has definitely had some of the best no stress play around SP content
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Apr 7, 2021 06:33
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New Rose model looks terrible. Both the re-design and the quality of the actual model. That scarf in particular looks like trash.
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Apr 7, 2021 07:55
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teagone posted:I've had a Razer Panthera for a little while now, but am thinking about picking up the ~$90 8BitDo Arcade Stick because 1) would be nice to have something smaller that's better than my Hori Mini 3, and because 2) I recently came into a Switch and being able to play fighting games on it with a stick would be neat. It also being 2.4G/BT capable is convenient when I just wanna romp through arcade/story modes on my PC. By far the most annoying thing is the space on the stick side is too narrow so my hand hangs off the edge. It doesn’t really bother me when I’m playing, but my larger sticks definitely feel nicer on my hands.
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Apr 7, 2021 08:44
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KungFu Grip posted:WWE 2K20 is the one that proved otherwise, apparently its one of the worst selling main wwe games
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Apr 7, 2021 13:02
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