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The Black Stones posted:Nebula is pure strain bullshit. Hope you like when cards surge! 13 of her cards will surge if played during the encounter round! Nothing like getting anywhere from 3-5 cards played against you in a single round. Side scheme to technique to shadows, and now my nemesis and its side scheme is in play. In the second round! Not coming back from that. Like, it’s loving standard. Why does Nebula have a surge mechanic built into her 1st form? This sounds an awful lot like why my gaming group bounced off Lord of the Rings. Some of the sets felt like half of the encounter cards had surge so any given turn would be barely an inconvenience or a game ending deluge of bullshit.
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Apr 6, 2021 18:42
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I've always liked Arkham better since it actually gives options to retreat/take alternate paths if you get a bad draw for certain scenarios; you can still move forward in a cycle even if you didn't get the result you wanted in one of the campaign points. Sometimes in Marvel Champions you get a really loving bad draw from the encounter deck + your own and it's extremely difficult to circumvent.
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Apr 6, 2021 18:57
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My guess is, for a game box that cost a lot, they want people to play multiple times, that means making it harder. Red skull was fun but On our first run through I think we did the five missions in six tries total. Collector one is brain breaking. It’s clearly “here’s a deck building challenge to beat perfectly.” Rocket and black cat were able to defeat it with zero threat on the main scheme and nine cards in the collection. Somehow the collector stole the Helicarrier and the concept of genius
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Apr 6, 2021 22:22
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I retooled the decks and tried again. On the plus side. I did a lot better, on the negative it really, really shows me how much bullshit Nebula is. I managed to get my engines up and running. A minion never lasted more than a turn and side schemes very rarely lasted a turn as well. Things going good. Then I hit Nebula stage 2. Stage 2 is a master craft of “gently caress this noise” because now when Nebula activated all of her techniques are still firing, but you get to discard only 1 after they fire. What a load of horse poo poo. She had 2 retaliates on her, then got it whenever she activated I get stunned, and then had where she gets tough card. If she’s tough or stunned already? Gets an extra boost card. Awesome, that in turn fuels more techniques to boost onto her. I had 4 techniques on her at the highest and only managed to get to 2 before she got another one on her. I eventually lost because I finally couldn’t keep the scheme on the first stage, and the nebula’s ship went up to 4 evasion counters. So that made me throw out 8 cards which pretty much decked booth Groot and Rocket and soon after had to draw 2 extra encounters cards which led to a poo poo spiral I could absolutely not fight back from. I really want to see people beating this on expert because I have a feeling if anyone is claiming this is easy that they aren’t playing with correct rules. I’m almost ready to just house rule some stuff like either going to next scheme doesn’t discard from each deck or you only increase the evasion counter by 1. Like, why the gently caress does the “Rogue Vessel” card need surge? Isn’t the fact it does an automatic 1 damage to each player enough of a drawback? Also I have to get rid of it by kneeling Milano and discarding 2 resources. So why does it need surge? Why? There’s no reason for it beyond them adding artificial difficulty by a stupid mechanic. Edit: yeah. What a loving crock of poo poo. I can regularly make it to the second round after I tweaked my decks, but when I get there? It’s pound town. Just an utter beating. Why yes it’s fantastic that there’s an event that has surge, incite 1, and places an evasion counter on nebulas ship which means the main scheme will go up by plus 2. Yes, EVERY minion in the side scheme deck needs quickstrike and the ability to remove cards from the game. Who the hell thought this was fun? I really want to have the designers, with the pre-built decks, attempt this scenario. They will not win. I guarantee it. It feels like they decided that every card can’t just do a thing. It has to do multiple things and that’s what annoys me. Card gets a minion from the deck? It can’t just grab the minion, the minion needs tough! But that’s boring, so the villain needs an encounter card too! So much stuff has to happen! It just feels so complicated. Like someone saw some of the hardcore on BGG complaining and went “the cards need to do more! Do more!” and never stopped to think “but is this fun, and simple for people who just like playing standard?” cause so far the answer is no, and I see a bunch of people on BGG that are casuals complaining too. The Black Stones fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Apr 7, 2021 |
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Apr 6, 2021 22:40
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I didn’t want it to get the best of me, but I give up. What an unfun piece of poo poo.
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Apr 7, 2021 07:14
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PrinnySquadron posted:https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2021/4/5/venomous-sting/ Venom uses guns now? I'm so out of touch
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Apr 7, 2021 11:11
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In the 90s, instead of killing people he ate hundreds of chocolate bars. He’s been weird for a long time
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Apr 7, 2021 16:48
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I decided to go back to the earlier scenarios and try them in campaign mode to see how my decks would hold up after all that tweaking trying to face Nebula. I honestly think they balanced the expansion with the expectation you run in Campaign. The first scenario doesn’t change much because you don’t have any market deck cards, but I did find my decks are tuned great because I beat him easily. Didn’t break a sweat and clobbered him good. Felt great after so many losses. Picked up some market deck cards (although I’m unsure if I’ve been doing the points properly for one of the victory conditions) and then went to punch Collector in the face. I got into trouble maybe once or twice the whole scenario. I had two Milano mods available that removed threat so I pretty much never worried about it. I had a guaranteed 3 threat down a turn. My Groot deck very rarely discards upgrades and I was aggressive on paying costs to unpack the collection and ended the game with no cards in collection and 0 threat on main scheme to get a bunch more victory points which meant even better market cards going into my deck. I’ll see how Collector 2 goes (but I didn’t really have trouble the first time so I doubt it will be hard) and then we’ll see if Nebula is still a pain. If that’s the case I think if I fight her non Campaign I’ll swap out the modular set to something that doesn’t mill the deck and has more cards that don’t hurt as bad. Maybe Band of Badoon or something.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:45
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That's good news. I liked the idea of the Red Skull campaign but the balance was off and Crossbones ended up being the only challenge due to upgrades. Especially in Expert but I've come to consider him one of the hardest villains. Playing Redskull for the first time as a standalone was a significantly better experience.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:52
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Had the experience the other day of playing two player with one of us playing a customized deck and the other one of us with a prebuilt. Not sure what I expected to happen, but it really doesn’t seem too fun if one deck feels as if it’s outperforming the other, even if the result is a win. Anyone have any thoughts on making sure the player decks are balanced against each other, as well as the encounter deck? It seems like there could be ways in which one deck appears to be not doing very much, but is preventing damage or disrupting the villain in ways that aren’t as immediately clear as big thwarts and attacks, but I dunno.
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Apr 7, 2021 19:53
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Minus1Minus1 posted:Had the experience the other day of playing two player with one of us playing a customized deck and the other one of us with a prebuilt. Not sure what I expected to happen, but it really doesn’t seem too fun if one deck feels as if it’s outperforming the other, even if the result is a win. IMO, the prebuilts are usually kinda awful because they’ll throw 3 of a card in that other decks can use one of, but isn’t good as a group. Take dauntless for a example. Great card, but Groot gets 3 and you can only have 1 per player. You now have 2 dead cards for the rest of the game. They’re resources sure, but they could go towards something else. A tweaked deck will always out perform the prebuilt because of how prebuilts take into consideration deck building purposes. That being said, all the prebuilts should usually do okay on standard difficulty fights. You might not do amazing, but you’ll do good enough. The only time I think it’s now become an issue where I don’t think a prebuilt will work well is GMW but I think the market cards can even make those work. My Groot deck doesn’t deal nearly as much damage as my Rocket deck, so on the surface it seems much isn’t happening, but I can remove 3 scheme on a successful defence, I can block a bunch for Rocket so he’s free to go guns blazing, and Groot does 2 chip damage every time he’s attacked when I have everything down. It’s going to boil down to how you wanna play. My friend hates playing defence decks I’ve seen because he says it doesn’t feel like he’s doing anything but I love being a big ol beefy boy tank. I liked my Justice black widow that just stopped threat and every single turn by fire off preparations but my friend hated it because he wasn’t doing anything flashy. If your in same boat, need to try heroes that want to pull of big flashy attacks like Ant-Man as an example.
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Apr 7, 2021 20:09
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Welp I ordered everything up to this point I was missing, finally grabbing Hulk/Ant-Man and the Red Skull box along with the Guardians box and Scarlet Witch. Little sad to hear the Guardians stuff is getting into LotR nightmare deck "we made the game harder by just giving every card surge" territory, but I don't play often enough for that to really matter. I'll probably take another break from purchases for a while as I want to grab the new Ashes upgrade kit and maybe rebuy some Summoner Wars stuff.
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Apr 7, 2021 20:29
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Fantasy flight builds adequate to bad prebuilt deck, because engaging with deck building means you’ll buy other things. It’s a reasonable business model, but it can be a shock to new players when they think a game is super hard, but it turns out their deck is just junky.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:04
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I thought the premades were intentionally bad to make deckbuilding seem more forgiving and accessible. Anyone can build a better deck after beating Rhino with just the starter cards so everyone should.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:59
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To be fair to FFG, they need to include three copies of new cards which may not be ideal for the deck. I would rather have an bad pre-built deck with a variety of new cards then an optimal pre-built without a full playset or very specific cards.
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Apr 7, 2021 22:16
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The only things I wish is that they will eventually reprint some cards with new heroes. For example the card that gives you +2 recovery in alter-ego? I slap that onto all my heroes who have only 3 recover. Getting 5 recovery means you don’t have to flip right back again if you get hit for 1 or 2. I’m not a huge fan of swapping cards between decks all the time, so getting some essential reprints every 3-4 heroes would be good.
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Apr 7, 2021 22:59
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I think the issue was not so much that the prebuilt deck wasn’t fun in and of itself, but just that there was a sense of imbalance between what each player could manage on a given turn. If you’re with a relatively inexperienced player and you just want to get back in the game, for instance, would it be better to both use pre-builds and just stick to a lower difficulty?
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Apr 7, 2021 23:59
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Tried out Nebula... and Rocket got surged to death on turn 2! Woo! ...But then reset and won on second try! Got very lucky with not pulling too many techniques as encounter cards, so there's that. Managed multiple 10 damage I AM GROOTs, and Rocket got a couple nice reload turns with particle cannon and his pistol out. They're pretty great.
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Apr 8, 2021 01:40
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Warm Woolen Pants posted:Tried out Nebula... and Rocket got surged to death on turn 2! Woo! Are you doing campaign? I finally won myself. The Milano mods are pretty much essential for getting a constant 4 threat a turn off the main scheme. The armour plating meant I could have Rocket take a hit or two, and giving the mounted laser to Groot helped get rid of tough cards. I had it touch and go at points, but won on my first try. It very much feels like they tuned the scenario for campaign play. Without the mods I would have 100% lost due to the amount of surging.
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Apr 8, 2021 04:22
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The Black Stones posted:Are you doing campaign? Yep. I don't think my market choices were great and would definitely switch them up if I could. Went for pure damage on Rocket and a mix of threat reduction / encounter card nullification on Groot to kind of stay in theme, and it's been suboptimal. Tried Ronan this morning, have not won or lost yet but holy mother of god he does awful things very quickly. I think I had a good starting set of hands, and a relatively soft draw from the encounter deck, and it's just not stabilizing. Feels like Mutagen Formula on Heroic 2, and this is on standard. The campaign-only starting side scheme adding an encounter card, and his ship adding another encounter card is just rough, even with the Milano ability to cancel one treachery per turn. The Hostile Vessel comes out or any of the other bad ship command cards, and you have to exhaust the Milano, and suddenly the horrible treacheries are piling up and jesus. Currently sitting on scheme 2, he's at roughly half health of form 1 with fanaticism freshly out and Rocket holding the Power Stone. It's not looking good.
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Apr 8, 2021 14:14
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Oh that’s sounds very not fun. I’m planning on giving it a shot today, so we’ll see how that goes. There’s a poll on the BGG forums about whether or not people dislike the upped difficulty and right now it’s 75% like it, 25% dislike. Take into account that’s where the superfans are posting about the game and I think this is not going to go over well with the casual crowd at all. Scenarios 1-3 are legitimate fun. It seems like they though “well, if we want things more difficult what’s the best way to do it” and got lazy and did it by slapping extra cards at you at every chance. I hope when they release the next big box expansion they have had time to figure it out.
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Apr 8, 2021 15:27
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Honestly, if I lose to Ronan a few times (and it is looking very likely by how that encounter deck is stacked), I'll probably shelve the game for a bit to clear up table space and run through an Arkham campaign (just got the full Circle Undone cycle delivered!) instead. This is all a bit stressful and I'd rather play the game that expects me to fail sometimes. Or possibly record all my campaign progress, and swap into a Dr. Strange / Ant-Man GMW campaign. I bet it would go smoother. Either way, I'm hopeful the rest of the Guardian packs will add useful cards that may make a big difference!
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Apr 8, 2021 16:04
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MChampions def has a teensy bit of power creep with some newer characters but the bosses in the expansion seemed like they were really going extreme with it, gently caress I have enough trouble with the bosses already out
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Apr 8, 2021 16:26
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ROFL. gently caress Ronan. I wanna talk with the devs and ask them what the gently caress they were thinking. Garbage, absolutely garbage of a expansion. Oh, how about having 6 encounters right on the first turn? You can come back from that, right? What do you mean just cancelling one them isn’t good enough? Minions with 7 hp and Guard and Stalwart? Oh yeah, that’s super easy to deal with. Ronan gets to his second stage? Good luck scheming because he gets the power stone and you can’t remove threat from the main stage until you remove it. The stages will pop pretty easy because having a 14 threat threshold when it goes up by 4 a round and he can scheme for 6-8 in one activation is not hard for him to do. Chalk up another one that even with Campaign is going to need heavy houseruling. I think I just won’t add Kree Supremacy because why the gently caress does Ronan need help throwing down encounters?
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Apr 8, 2021 17:59
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Minus1Minus1 posted:I think the issue was not so much that the prebuilt deck wasn’t fun in and of itself, but just that there was a sense of imbalance between what each player could manage on a given turn. Pre-builts are fine on an easy difficulty for new players. When I taught my wife to play, I basically used the framework of a pre-built from the core but slightly modified it and played on a low difficulty. Doing it that way made the turns less pressure-packed and gave her a chance to figure out how everything worked together.
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Apr 8, 2021 18:16
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the reddit threads about people losing to Ronan in round 1 are crazy. Also I've never understood the people in some MChamps boards saying the game is "too easy" when I've gotten hosed over quite swiftly due to the card draws---the game has never felt easy but then again I've never done the maximum min-max "specific deck just for this villain" with the same 3 heroes as some others do.
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Apr 8, 2021 18:29
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DLC Inc posted:the reddit threads about people losing to Ronan in round 1 are crazy. Also I've never understood the people in some MChamps boards saying the game is "too easy" when I've gotten hosed over quite swiftly due to the card draws---the game has never felt easy but then again I've never done the maximum min-max "specific deck just for this villain" with the same 3 heroes as some others do. Want a fun time seeing people brag about their e-penis? Load up the BGG forum for this game and see people go “oh Ronan is just as easy as Kang” “well the game was too easy until now, I always played on expert and it was boring” They just can’t comprehend that a lot of people didn’t play the game for ball crushing difficulty.
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Apr 8, 2021 18:36
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The Black Stones posted:Want a fun time seeing people brag about their e-penis? Load up the BGG forum for this game and see people go “oh Ronan is just as easy as Kang” “well the game was too easy until now, I always played on expert and it was boring” I don't quite get how people are crushing the game on the reg when I've watched countless Team Covenant streams/vids wherein they march through Heroic difficulty games for hours and get defeated like 60% of the time. It was a pretty hard game---I'd say possibly harder than Arkham imo????---even beforehand, and I thought with the last 4 or 5 heros they put out and new cards it would shore up the advantage I could have vs villains. I've read that the game is intended for 2/3 players, with solo not really being the intended way to play / 4 players getting too chaotic. Idk if there's truth to that but I've usually tried to always play two-handed, as it lends itself better to "this hero handles schemes, this one handles damage" or benefiting from someone using a resource upgrade for the other character.
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Apr 8, 2021 18:41
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The game is 100% balanced for 2-3 and the devs have said as much. That being said, I think the people who claim they can crush Ronan are full of poo poo. Give me some video proof if it. Someone tried to go “ah these guys did a play stream with the pre-builds and won” and when I looked at their nebula stream they flat out ignored Nebula thwarting for one guys turn. Yes, the game is easier when you don’t play correctly.
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Apr 8, 2021 19:11
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Started my game back up over lunch and Rocket immediately died. Got attacked (with double boost + overkill), then his (initially two) encounter cards were Kree Physiology (SURGE, give Ronan a tough card) into assault (villain attacks you (also with double boost + overkill)) and Headhunter's Henchman (SURGE, 8 health, 2atk, 1sch minion w/ Patrol) into Kree Physiology (SURGE AGAIN, now do 1 unavoidable damage since Ronan already has tough) into "You Stand Accused" (villain attacks you with +1 attack, overkill). Extremely fun game.
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Apr 8, 2021 19:20
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It’s so stupid. 6 hp minions with patrol means I can’t even use relentless assault to kill in one hit. I used Marketplace card to fish Nick and card to pay for him, so I had at one point an 11 card hand. So I can thwart the main scheme for a lot right? Haha? Nope even forgetting the minion was out. Ronan stage scheme was on 2nd form, and it fucks you in the glorious way that it steals your power stone and then goes “you can’t remove threat unless you have power stone” Wow! Because it’s so easy to hit Ronan when I’m literally on defence play from the word go. I legit never thwarted the main scheme one. I got rid of all the side schemes, but would for sure lose out on threat because well, couldn’t remove it. Amazingly fun. Glad BGG is happy, because that was their number one priority apparently. Edit: I am throwing up the white flag. I will probably still play with my friend, but if we do I’m going to just throw out a bunch of the stupid poo poo they do for the harder scenarios. Going to stop looking at BGG because the insane takes of “well, you don’t have to buy it if it’s difficult. It’s not for you” takes are just on an insane “gently caress you got what I wanted” level. The Black Stones fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Apr 8, 2021 |
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Apr 8, 2021 20:23
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The Black Stones posted:Going to stop looking at BGG because the insane takes of “well, you don’t have to buy it if it’s difficult. It’s not for you” takes are just on an insane “gently caress you got what I wanted” level. BGG is the worst for this. Having the standard difficulty be very accessible and having modular/difficulty options to jack the difficulty up sky high if you want it is better for everybody... but they're lovely grogs and don't actually have that capacity for empathy. I think from now on I'm going to house rule away the scenario side-scheme, and the Ronan's ship environment. His encounter deck is still the hardest one in the game, imo, he really doesn't need the extra encounter cards to be hard. Feels bad to 'cheat,' but playing him rules-as-written sucks.
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Apr 8, 2021 20:54
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Aren't the mixed in cards optional? What if you replace Kree Supremacy with Under Assault?
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Apr 8, 2021 20:54
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KPC_Mammon posted:Aren't the mixed in cards optional? What if you replace Kree Supremacy with Under Assault? Kree supremacy is a campaign card. It’s not a modular set. It’s an extra scheme that gets played that require 12 thwart to remove. Wouldn’t be so bad but it gives Ronan an extra card so if you’re playing by the rules and also want to remove his weapon you’re eating SIX encounter cards in the first round. I think I agree with Woolen Pants to just chuck Kree Supremacy. He doesn’t need the help, and then also ignore the extra encounter card from the ship. I’ve also been thinking of houseruling surge. Where you can’t have more than one surge. So if a card surges into another surge. That can’t surge any more. It stops any form of crazy chains happening. The Black Stones fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Apr 8, 2021 |
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Apr 8, 2021 21:02
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The Black Stones posted:I’ve also been thinking of houseruling surge. Where you can’t have more than one surge. So if a card surges into another surge. That can’t surge any more. It stops any form of crazy chains happening. That's what we did back when we played my LotR stuff for 6 months or so. Surge is just such a boring mechanic to tack on and I really wish there were more beneficial cards in the enemy deck, which was one good thing about some of the LotR pods. I loved randomly turning an ally card or an item that might have some nice 1 time use. That's something from Warhammer Quest I miss too is just a more general mix of positive and negative effects in the bad guy deck.
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Apr 8, 2021 21:10
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Yeah, the i feel like Rise of Red Skull was really good about “well bad things can happen, but there’s some cards that will give you breathing room” For example, Red Skull is tough and throws out a lot of side schemes, but half of them gave you a great benefit like putting an ally into play or discarding a minion. In GMW everything just craps all over you and there’s no benefit to anything ever. If the next expansion is indeed a Thanos box I really, really hope that they don’t just keep on trucking. I really wish there was some way I could give my thoughts to the developers to see how they feel about the reaction this expansion is getting.
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Apr 8, 2021 21:24
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Where's that Goon who always talks about homebrew like it's actually part of the game? I couldn't give two shits about homebrew heroes, but I wouldn't object to a polished, balanced villain deck.
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Apr 8, 2021 23:15
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Don’t forget, you can cancel an encounter card entirely by exhausting Milano and spending a resource. You pretty much have to do that a few times in the first few turns. Don’t be like me, assuming the first player controls the Milano for the whole game, instead of the ship moving with the first player counter. Me and my GF beat Ronan on a second try, but we had black cat as a custom character, and she can discard attachments. Getting rid of the universal weapon is a lifesaver. She also has five ‘bad luck’ cards to encounter deck, some of which were adequate and some of which were lifesavers. Also don’t do what we did, and clone cards in the marketplace you can take more than one of each. The game only ships with one of each so presumably you can’t do that in real life. —- Ant-man aggression is lotta fun, team training is more useful than helicarrier. Might bring tenacity so when I switch to giant I can attack twice starting at six with combat training.
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Apr 11, 2021 17:12
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Yeah you can cancel an encounter card, but that’s still 1 out of 6 from the first turn (if you choose to get rid of his weapon which you pretty much should), and then only 1 out of 4 from each round on until you can get the special campaign card gone which then is 1 out of 3 which is better. Definitely wasn’t doubling up the marketplace deck. My Groot/Rocket combo definitely can’t win. However, I’m thinking of trying my Ant-Man Leadership and Spider-Woman protection/aggression build.
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Apr 11, 2021 18:00
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Ant-man is a lot of fun in aggro. With the Gamora previews, miss marvel can you do some really crafty things, and it’s a big thwart campaign.
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Apr 11, 2021 21:46
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