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the move away from freud in american practical psychology has been a move towards, not away from psychology as a disciplining science
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Apr 9, 2021 09:55
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DOMELORD420 posted:I'm by no means an expert, but almost the entire field of psychotherapy is no longer based on Freud and Jung's weird mindsurf cocaine ramblings. You'd be really hard pressed to come by any therapist doing legit Freudian psychoanalysis in 2021. There's a lot of humanist thought in modern psychology. lol My dude have you heard of this bullshit called “positive psychology”? It’s just one example in the total privatization of the field
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Apr 9, 2021 10:25
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https://twitter.com/BrandyFromTX/status/1379688075643785217
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Apr 9, 2021 10:29
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DOMELORD420 posted:but generally speaking modern psychology focuses on freeing people from the effects of harmful structures, not controlling them. So is this why I know so many mental health professionals quitting their profession when they realize they’re basically just helping people stabilize enough to be broken further by their jobs/life situations?
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Apr 9, 2021 12:04
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I should point out that my criticisms of psychology/medicine aren't slights on the researchers/doctors/therapists themselves. In all fields, there are always going to be people who challenge the norms, but I'm talking about who shapes the norms themselves. In medicine, for example, we have become societies that increasingly rely on last minute too-late intervention by doctors/surgeons, overworked and in cramped underfunded hospitals. When we think of medicine, we think of doctors, not the vast network of environmental and lifestyle factors that precipitate much of disease and could be targeted to improve health. Even when we do think of those other factors, for example diet, we think wow you shouldn't have eaten so poorly way to make poor individual choices guess you can only blame yourself. We don't think of food deserts or money. There is less and less space to even recognize larger factors that influence everyone's health. I have a book or two on epidemiology because I figure that must be a field that could challenge these larger factors. I have read Michael Marmot's book and he is probably the biggest name on the impacts of poverty on health, but I think he is also one of the best examples of my criticism. Despite having led countless WHO and other official fancy health panels, the changes he has got to push through are minimal. He himself fears looking too leftist and in lieu of arguing for significant changes, just lauds NGO efforts that chip away at not much or even tries to appeal to the right by falsely twisting his own findings to suggest that poor people are to some extent dumb/lazy (conveniently removing his own proven data as to why poverty might be associated with lower cognitive performance). There is always space for researchers to look for new answers, but I'm asking where are the systems outside of science to implement them?
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Apr 9, 2021 12:35
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also the structures of contemporary science are themselves heavily biassed towards knowledge as a means of control, due to publishing pressure and the strong valuation of the cognitive sciences as positive rather than critical sciences
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Apr 9, 2021 12:45
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V. Illych L. posted:also the structures of contemporary science are themselves heavily biassed towards knowledge as a means of control, due to publishing pressure and the strong valuation of the cognitive sciences as positive rather than critical sciences theres a number of Black authors I've read -- Patricia Hill Collins comes to mind -- who talk about how positivism is intimately tied up with colonialism. (I mean positivism as the general tendency, not the actual Positivists who are basically all gone afaik.) Basically, positivism lets you draw a line in the sand; "this knowledge counts as True and Correct Science, whereas this other knowledge disagrees with Science and is therefore wrong." But since the gatekeepers to Science are generally rich white dudes, this lets rich white dudes control what kinds of knowledge/facts are expressible in the academy.
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Apr 9, 2021 13:13
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idk about that critique, but positivism debates were a whole Thing in germany and norway in the sixties and seventies with the anti-positivists being proven pretty much conclusively right in retrospect as the positivists' programme was universally applied over the eighties i'm uncertain that i'd agree that it's inherently colonialistic more than the journal/peer review system weighing institutional prestige so heavily, which means that it's extremely difficult to get anywhere if you start on the periphery. i know that e.g. kenya has been spending a ludicrous amount of money trying and failing to set up academic institutions because all the promising prospects would rather work in europe or the US and have much better careers to an extent, this is tied up in colonialism, but i'd have to read the actual argument to fully buy it as inherent to this form of positivism as such rather than how we evaluate academic merit, i.e. the sort of metascientific network
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Apr 9, 2021 13:20
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it makes it even more incredible that while, at home, science was becoming increasingly constrained and the CIA was limited to harnessing hypnosis and psychoactive drug work, they were also funding anthropology work on things like Yoruba witch doctors through MK Ultra
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Apr 9, 2021 13:25
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nut you should pop into the Climate Change thread for critiques on that entropy thing that I was too lazy to do myself (they also approach it lazily, but hey) - it's nonsense and you shouldn't put any stock in it. It's very silly Theweleit's book, I know you critiqued its treatment of psychoanalysis, does an amazing job of proving the unconscious without Theweleit himself being a real friend to psychoanalysis. I do think McGowan is terribly mistaken about psychology generally, although not terribly off the mark regarding its institutional aspects (mental wards, mental hospitals, coerced medication, etc).
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Apr 9, 2021 14:15
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Zimbardo and Milgram's infamous experiments, which have been proven to be complete horse poo poo (and were funded by CIA cutouts), are still considered seminal research in the field, so I don't think McGowan is wrong. Evo psych, medical/individualistic models of psychopathology, and a whole lot of research that can't be replicated also gives the field a strong whiff of bullshit.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:43
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Backweb posted:Jeffrey's death has made too many people radicalize. And not in the direction that the intelligence agencies want!!! Love that Matt Gaetz wanted into the cabal and even they told him to gently caress off. The thing about Epstein radicalizing people really does just lend credence to Qanon being a psy-op of some sort that was intended, at least in part, to delegitimize theories around Epstein by directly entwining it with their loony bullshit. Just, it's too convenient for them.
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Apr 9, 2021 15:00
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Zimbardo and Milgram's infamous experiments, which have been proven to be complete horse poo poo (and were funded by CIA cutouts), are still considered seminal research in the field, so I don't think McGowan is wrong. Evo psych, medical/individualistic models of psychopathology, and a whole lot of research that can't be replicated also gives the field a strong whiff of bullshit. I never majored in psychology but those experiments are as famous, these days, for being tainted as they are for the conclusions themselves. At least, in the internet circles I've run in you can't breathe them without someone mentioning their dubious methods and conclusions. No one takes evo pysch seriously in academia, do they?  Medical/individualistic models of psychopathology is probably given too much due, yes, and I'm not sure that the replication problem is more pronounced in psychology than in any other field but I could be wrong.
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Apr 9, 2021 15:01
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Ive been bouncing this around in my head for a long while now; If all these ultra powerful cabals and intelligence networks were uh, so intelligent and powerful, wouldn't they have done something about climate change? I mean they cant be this blind and dumb to deny hard scientific evidence that the world is in for a terrible time for the next 50 years. All the upcoming wars, refugees, angry poor people and general strife cant be good for number - which I assume is the most important thing for these people - other than fresh supplies of kids. So, what gives? I know some of them have been building remote bunkers and private shelters in bumfuck New Zealand, but even the most corrupt and evil scumbag on this earth must realize that sitting in a bunker for untold amounts of time (possibly years and decades), hoping to "sit out" all the wars and chain social/financial collapses - isn't really a viable solution. I was just wondering how all these psyop networks and ultra rich cabals of psychopaths operate within the context of climate change - which basically overshadows all other things in life.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:06
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^ ^ ^ Climate change isn't a problem for them, they'll be dead by the time the consequences are inescapable for their class and in the meantime, all the children they can rape and all the peasants they can torture. Yeah, normies don't give a gently caress IRL, they cling to the debunked legitimacy of these experiments because it supports their biases (biases that Capital forced onto them in the first place, either through their culture of origin or the media landscape that shaped the minds of their contemporaries). It is depressing and maddening as gently caress.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:10
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Tony Tone posted:Ive been bouncing this around in my head for a long while now; If all these ultra powerful cabals and intelligence networks were uh, so intelligent and powerful, wouldn't they have done something about climate change? If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably the fallacy of believing there would be positive coordination between people in this class. Achieving success on the backs on wildly rapacious and competitive practice doesn't exactly set you up to suddenly restrain, and if it did, wouldn't that just be opening for someone else to gain at your loss?
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Apr 9, 2021 16:11
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Tony Tone posted:which basically overshadows all other things in life. maybe for you and me, but not for the people who live their lives on private planes going back and forth between private resorts wherever the weather is nice that week
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Apr 9, 2021 16:12
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nut posted:If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably the fallacy of believing there would be positive coordination between people in this class. Achieving success on the backs on wildly rapacious and competitive practice doesn't exactly set you up to suddenly restrain, and if it did, wouldn't that just be opening for someone else to gain at your loss? right, just because they look like a bloc, they're not actually a cohesive unit. They come together to gently caress over the poors, but they also constantly fight each other like cats in a bag. If any one of them stops exploiting their personal infinite money glitch, they'll quickly lose position. Of course even if they lose position they're still set for life if they were living like a normal person. but that next island isn't gonna buy itself...
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Apr 9, 2021 16:42
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Demon Semen posted:lol whats seligman or peterson or Csikszentmihalyi done that jams in your craw? always seemed innocuous compared to the strain all urine variety of good doctor. also everybody defending modern psychotherapists now do the modern psychoanalysts. then do the PsyDs and MSWs that practice in states where they can prescribe psychotropic substances to help keep the young poor in check. defend the men who perscribe chemical restraints to ward and prison inmates after a three minute webcam "sessions." defend the dozen or so sham industries based on false research (example: subject based learning disabilities). please do go on about why its okay that the average practitioner will fully alleviate zero patients of just their symptoms. and make the cherry on top an impassioned defense of the idea that teaching a nation that mental illness is the result of "chemical imbalances" (humors) when decades of literature admits this is a lie. like you dont have to go to the evopsych misogynists take a look at the work coming out of feminist sex labs or whatever you think the opposite its hot garbage all the way down. The Saucer Hovers has issued a correction as of 17:49 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 17:34
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Therapy has improved my life tremendously. I refuse to take medication beyond marijuana and my therapist has never pushed pharma on me. But I am white.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:41
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talk therapy isnt science or a cure, its animal social catharsis thats been commodified for those without access. it can be good and right, and yes all folks could do with some skill building around empathy and interpersonal communication...hell maybe even with certifications and such...but making this social role into a "doctor" with all its attendant power dynamics hasnt been great for society if you were helped by therapeutics im glad. i was not, i was deeply hurt by those systems and i went back to school as an adult to interrogate those systems and found...well...that science aint an exact science with these bozos
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Apr 9, 2021 17:55
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Let me tell you how the field that through decades of academic dishonesty gave you the concept of priming which at this point is so ingrained in leftist culture you have the SNP moving forward a bill to criminalise the possession of spicy memes is actually not an insane hellfont spewing toxic waste over modern life.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:07
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I got a therapist and he ghosted me and that was the end of that.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:09
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inferis posted:I got a therapist and he ghosted me and that was the end of that. this is truly the natural conclusion of the app-ification of therapy
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Apr 9, 2021 18:09
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nut posted:this is truly the natural conclusion of the app-ification of therapy I had a doctor do it too so it’s probably me. she actually ended up shutting down her whole clinic though and it was clear from the staff that she just kind of stopped coming in
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Apr 9, 2021 18:13
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The Saucer Hovers posted:if you were helped by therapeutics im glad. i was not, i was deeply hurt by those systems and i went back to school as an adult to interrogate those systems and found...well...that science aint an exact science with these bozos im surprised that anytime ive dug into science backing public policy, it's basically been garbage. a few years ago i spent a considerable amount of effort trying to educate myself on diet and nutritional science only to find out that basically noone knows basic poo poo like ideal macronutrient splits to feed the human animal. what does the food pyramid say, i ask. depends on which industry is in charge this decade, they answer.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:17
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My first therapist, responding to my woe regarding poverty and war, said, "War and poverty have always been around actually." Ah, cheers man, that makes me feel actually so much worse. Then he would yell at me to go back to school every session in between stories about his life. I stopped going after he tried to sell me on "Israel's Right of Defense". But he did introduce me to Tikkun Olam and pushed me to volunteer my time. Which I did and then I worked in social work for a while. So not all bad I guess.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:32
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pizza is a fruit
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Apr 9, 2021 18:32
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Tony Tone posted:Ive been bouncing this around in my head for a long while now; If all these ultra powerful cabals and intelligence networks were uh, so intelligent and powerful, wouldn't they have done something about climate change? Feel like this thread takes the concept of cabals too literally sometimes. 1) Those in power are a decentralized group of wealthy individuals, many of whom hate one another or roll in different cliques, etc. Yes, they bow before number but there's no NWO calling the shots. One billionaire has interests in embracing electric cars, other billionaires say woah woah my money's in oil gently caress off and it's a matter of who they can influence. 2) They're not that intelligent, they just have money. Some of them truly deny climate change is happening, some of them think they'll just ride it out, some think they can fix it through market oriented solutions, some don't give a poo poo since they'll be dead before it gets really bad and just about all of them are profiting from it.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:27
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You know the story of Job? Or the story of Abraham and Isaac? It's kind of like that except instead of God being Jehovah it's Capital.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:35
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If these people were smart they wouldn't constantly be getting caught doing poo poo. They tell other people to make their fuckups go away is all.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:49
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Tony Tone posted:Ive been bouncing this around in my head for a long while now; If all these ultra powerful cabals and intelligence networks were uh, so intelligent and powerful, wouldn't they have done something about climate change? Try thinking of it as an ideological end goal of the power brokers. I think the same could be asked about any capitalist, corporation, or ultra entrenched corporation. The bottom line is to ensure power now, and to centralize it to ensure continuation down the line. As others have said, if poo poo gets real, then they will ride it out as best they can to ensure they're the neo Noah. The tech icons worshipped by the "I loving love science" morons are taking steps to make sure their ilk would survive regardless. If you want to get more out there, then the pedo cabal may be anticipating this. It could be accelerationism, like how super born again Jesusy whackjobs want to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem to bring about the end times. It would make some more sense of Epstein's temple and poo poo if we're neo Babylon and are anticipating another Atlantis event. We already know the elite power brokers do some weird stuff already. Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, etc. So if this is the foundation of western civilization, normies are expendable. Whether or not it's a cultic system, the coopting of the elites by a mobbed up MIC (or vice versa), or a Masonic master plan ongoing for 2000+ years, we've seen hints in this thread that the elites are effectively trying to being about this situation. For one reason or another, they apparently don't mind.
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Apr 9, 2021 20:25
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https://twitter.com/TrueAnonPod/status/1380600491663495169?s=20
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Apr 9, 2021 20:30
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TrixRabbi posted:Feel like this thread takes the concept of cabals too literally sometimes. I disagree. There certainly are secret societies of elites helping each other out. See the thread favorites: Bush, Bush, and Prohibition era gangster Bush. People like Musk aren't part of the "cabal" though. They seem more like useful idiots who are allowed to fail upwards because their hobbies, though in opposition to the money making schemes of other useful idiots, help to diversify the possibilities of further concentrating power in the hands of the real elite.
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Apr 9, 2021 20:47
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And what's the status of those groups right now? Couldn't make it work for Jeb! I mean again, you're conflating cabals with networks of influence. The Bush's are a powerful family with a wide network that tapped into various individuals, groups and orgs that have come and gone over the years. I'm not denying the existence of clandestine organization, secret meetings and networks. Rather, I think a "cabal" implies a religious element that is more easily clarified as the more mundane knowing lots of the right people and having the power to make them do what you want.
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Apr 9, 2021 20:54
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TrixRabbi posted:And what's the status of those groups right now? Couldn't make it work for Jeb! fraternities have been doing weird ritualistic poo poo for like 1000 years and no one really cares or believes in any of it. people just like to get fancy and rape minors and then help their buddies they meet at child rape club out with great deals
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Apr 9, 2021 22:11
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https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1380581353599737859?s=20 New York Times loves UFO stories now
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Apr 10, 2021 05:16
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Tony Tone posted:Ive been bouncing this around in my head for a long while now; If all these ultra powerful cabals and intelligence networks were uh, so intelligent and powerful, wouldn't they have done something about climate change? 🦂 🐸
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Apr 10, 2021 06:44
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TrixRabbi posted:And what's the status of those groups right now? Couldn't make it work for Jeb! TrixRabbi posted:I mean again, you're conflating cabals with networks of influence. The Bush's are a powerful family with a wide network that tapped into various individuals, groups and orgs that have come and gone over the years. I guess I should ask whether or not you believe Epstein was part of a cabal. I'm not conflating, but it's easy to assume. But to say that would be to simplify the fact that the western order is a nexus of many threads of power coming together to operate the global system. A cabal, in the sense that Epstein was part of one, doesn't have to be an expressed cultic thing. It just needs an elite membership, ritualism or symbolism, and the goals, of which influence is a component, is enough. I'd also argue that the rituals and symbols are likely mundane enough that we take them for granted as not being symbols. For example, the symbolism of the fertile crescent. These really have nothing to do with modern western society, yet they're everywhere, on everything, and us normies see it so often that we don't realized we're already born into it as drones in the cabal's system. The crack ping of Epstein is that his dealings, networking, kompromatting, crimes, death, and associations is that his centrality to the modern western order has torn back the curtains and given us a glimpse of the nexus of organized crime, shadow state organizations, MIC, intelligence, and old money who operate by a different set of rules. If that's not a cabal, I don't know what is. I think WW2 was a major critical juncture that allowed the old money cabal to become transformed into a modern industrialized one, what with the way the mob took control of the American MIC during WW2, Meyer Lansky setting up the modern intelligence kompromat system, etc. That hadn't been done before, and I assume it was done in part because Nazism and Communism in Europe were both threatening to undo the old money conspiracy (I.e. the back channels used by royalty and their old money bourgeoisie associates) which had been running the show for centuries before.
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Apr 10, 2021 07:35
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Backweb posted:SMDH. Newsweek, Newsweek, Newsweek... The blood of the young doesn't stop aging. You gotta gently caress the young like Jeffrey and Ghislane did. It's young cum. Gotta have regular cum injections.
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Apr 10, 2021 08:07
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