Online Creators V: I believe it is actually his ass cheek and balls

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Rapidly Going Deaf > Online Creators V: I believe it is actually his ass cheek and balls

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(Thread IKs: Nuns with Guns)

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Elephant Parade posted:

Is Higurashi really an example of "mystery box" writing where the author doesn't start writing with an answer in mind? I never got that impression, especially given that Higurashi is losely based on a stage play by the same author, "Hinamizawa Bus Stop", with the same basic mystery/solution (strange violent outbursts/hallucinations caused by the narrator's descent into brain-parasite-induced paranoia). Is there reason to believe that the author didn't have an outline from the start?

The individual acts of Higurashi don't really build towards the grand mystery in my opinion. It's an overarching and very loose structure which ties the individual parts together. It could be the author had it conceived from the start, but the fluidity of how the story is told means is just as well could not. Like it goes from plot A to plot B to plot C without anything really but the general setting and characters pulling it together. Much more akin to something like Breaking Bad's loose storytelling format (which they famously diverted from and tried to plan in season 3).

# ? Apr 10, 2021 18:38

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# ? May 31, 2024 03:19

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

I feel worse for all the kids named Khaleesi (or Kelly C).

lmao yeah that's a yikes.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 18:51

Bug Squash: Mar 18, 2009

MiddleOne posted:

Sure, but the problem with a story is that it really is all its parts. A videogame can have a dogshit ending and still be a sweet and enjoyable memory due to the fact that there's more there than just the characters and plot. But movies and TV, nah.

The mystery box structure is a good way to build commitment. Problem is that once you have commitment you run the risk of tainting the resulting relationship with the show by not delivering.

Hard disagree I'm afraid, but personal tastes do come into it. Good episodes of BSG didn't burn up for the last season or two going to the dogs. Babylon 5 likewise had a fantastic run and it's easy to pretend the last season never happened.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:04

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Katt posted:

I liked Stannis. He was the king that they deserved and probably needed. Having him burn his own daughter disappointed me though because from that moment I knew he was hosed. I also didn't feel like it was something that his character would do. Nor without a substantial buildup to it.

Breinne acquiring closure from killing a defeated and defenceless Stannis also seemed like an jarring character move. I had almost forgotten about Renly at that point but even then he was at war with Stannis so it seemed kind of like fair game? If Renly didn't believe that Joffrey was the son of Robert then Stannis was the rightful king.

renly is decent in the books. its just in the show they make him a whiny fop who just claps at his boy friend doing jousts and being kinda woke for the times they live.

also i agree with stannis and d&d never gave him a good shake because they hated his character which is understandable but it also made every book action he took in the worst possible light.

Sydin posted:

Right, Dany was pretty obviously always going to turn and for all the good she did she also perpetrated a lot of unneeded death in the name of planting her rear end down on the throne of a country she didn't even really know. She just wanted it because it should be her's, and that was enough to justify using any means necessary to build an army and invade. IMO one of the most telling moments of her character is when Tyrion (in one of the last smart moments his character has before being driven into the dirt forever) points out to her that she now rules all of Slaver's Bay, with a people who not only love her but need her to keep the nobles in check lest they just yeet her reforms the second she moves on, and tells her the smart thing to do is just forget her claim to some country across the sea she has no real ties to and settle down with her current rule. And she can't. Danny rejects this advice completely out of hand, because as much as she cloaks her ambition in compassion and a hatred of slavery and the systemic cycles of violence and exploitation, it is still ultimately in her heart of hearts about getting her rear end on the Iron Throne.

...But not a lot of watchers looked past the superficial justifications she gave, which why there's an unfortunate amount of children who are going to have to grow up with the name Dany or Daenerys. Tyrion's little "oh you all just ignored the bad poo poo she was doing because she was pretty and badass and freed the slaves *winks at camera*" speech is obviously bad and way too on the nose, but it's also not completely wrong.

yeah, she is a tragic character who got hosed over by a hosed up childhood with a weird hosed up brother and bad genetics. i am still mad how they hosed varys over because he should have had more second thoughts earlier in the show.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:08

Babysitter Super Sleuth: Apr 26, 2012; my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

CYBEReris posted:

Twin Peaks is an interesting one because there's a concrete mystery with a solution that has a mundane surface layer that's covering a massive series of more abstract mysteries with few to no clear solutions.

Twin Peaks is kind of an odd example in that Lynch and Frost have said in interviews that they never really had any intention of answering the question of Who Killed Laura Palmer until network execs basically forced their hands (which is why the series quality kind of falls off a cliff after that mystery gets answered, as Lynch basically lost interest until the finale and the movie) and were far more interested in using the mystery as an exploratory tool for unraveling the stories of the town and its people than in solving the mystery itself.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:12

Katt: Nov 14, 2017

Dapper_Swindler posted:

renly is decent in the books. its just in the show they make him a whiny fop who just claps at his boy friend doing jousts and being kinda woke for the times they live.

also i agree with stannis and d&d never gave him a good shake because they hated his character which is understandable but it also made every book action he took in the worst possible light.

I have issues with Renly because everyone else is fighting for what they believe is justice but Renly fights because he wants to be king due to might-makes-right and his claim ultimately falls apart in part because his followers are of the same idea and so would probably ditch him if someone more mighty came along. But also because he died)

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:12

Yvonmukluk: Oct 10, 2012; Everything is Sinister

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

Twin Peaks is kind of an odd example in that Lynch and Frost have said in interviews that they never really had any intention of answering the question of Who Killed Laura Palmer until network execs basically forced their hands (which is why the series quality kind of falls off a cliff after that mystery gets answered, as Lynch basically lost interest until the finale and the movie) and were far more interested in using the mystery as an exploratory tool for unraveling the stories of the town and its people than in solving the mystery itself.

Waasn't the guy who played Bob a crew member whose reflection was caught in a shot so he was written into the show?

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:15

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Bug Squash posted:

Hard disagree I'm afraid, but personal tastes do come into it. Good episodes of BSG didn't burn up for the last season or two going to the dogs. Babylon 5 likewise had a fantastic run and it's easy to pretend the last season never happened.

Yeah agreed, it is quite a personal thing. For me personally a show having a bad chunk doesn't ruin it for me. You can always skip bad parts. But a bad ending however, that taints everything before it for me. Even something like Dexter where I adore the first season is ruined by it's steady but inevitable 7 season slope.

I think this kinda seeps into my taste in movies sometime. I'm infatuated with movies with clear thesis statements at the very beginning that they deliver on (for example; La La Land, Whiplash and Bodied).

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:15

Shyrka: Feb 10, 2005; Small Boss likes to spin!

Yardbomb posted:

I mean, remember when Death Note ended, then the publishers basically told Ohba "No it didn't, turn it around now" and then it meandered through some more that felt obviously tacked on.

I wish they'd remake Death Note but with Light killing billionaires instead of criminals.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:20

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Shyrka posted:

I wish they'd remake Death Note but with Light killing billionaires instead of criminals.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:21

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Katt posted:

I have issues with Renly because everyone else is fighting for what they believe is justice but Renly fights because he wants to be king due to might-makes-right and his claim ultimately falls apart in part because his followers are of the same idea and so would probably ditch him if someone more mighty came along. But also because he died)

sorta. renly sorta thinks he would be a more enlightened king compared to stannis but he doesn't really know the game, he kinda wants to "break the wheel" but he doesn't give enough of a poo poo to do anything to do that. i mean part of it, is he isnt in the show that long.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:22

Babysitter Super Sleuth: Apr 26, 2012; my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

Yvonmukluk posted:

Waasn't the guy who played Bob a crew member whose reflection was caught in a shot so he was written into the show?

Kind of! Frank Silva, who played BOB, was a set decorator on twin peaks, but Lynch really liked his vibe and was looking for an excuse to slot him into the show anyway, and the camera operator accidentally catching him in a mirror was what Lynch saw as a sign to use him as the villain.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:29

DeafNote: Jun 4, 2014; Only Happy When It Rains

Shyrka posted:

I wish they'd remake Death Note but with Light killing billionaires instead of criminals.

I mean Light did give the deathnote to a rich executive so he could start killing rivals and be his fallguy for an extremely convoluted AccordingtoKeikaku plan.
close enough.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:39

Marshal Radisic: Oct 9, 2012

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

Twin Peaks is kind of an odd example in that Lynch and Frost have said in interviews that they never really had any intention of answering the question of Who Killed Laura Palmer until network execs basically forced their hands (which is why the series quality kind of falls off a cliff after that mystery gets answered, as Lynch basically lost interest until the finale and the movie) and were far more interested in using the mystery as an exploratory tool for unraveling the stories of the town and its people than in solving the mystery itself.

Mulholland Drive, at least in its original form as a TV pilot, is kinda interesting as an attempt to avoid the problem Twin Peaks ran into with its central mystery. While MD was also built around a mystery, the question of "who is Rita and what was she involved in" is a more complex and ambiguous one than "who killed Laura Palmer", and the way the show was set up, at least as can be conjectured from the leaked 90-minute pilot cut it's pretty clear that the Hollywood of MD is so enmeshed in conspiracies that resolving any mysteries about Rita's identity is just going to raise more questions. Of course, making the central mystery weak and putting more focus on the plots that spiral off the main one (I have no idea what MD would have looked like as a series, but I've long suspected that the Hollywood elements of Inland Empire are refractions of ideas Lynch had for the original show) will eventually have viewers start asking if the show is actually going anywhere or means anything, and I think it was this issue that prompted the executives at ABC to ultimately pass on the MD project.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:46

MechanicalTomPetty: Oct 30, 2011; Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me

Wasn't there a one shot not too long ago where Ryuk gives the death note to loving Donald Trump?

And then Donald Trump decides to lock it away instead of using it to murk every last person he disliked, like he absolutely would have immediately done in real life?

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:46

DoctorWhat: Nov 18, 2011; A little privacy, please?

the reason light kills criminals is because his dad is a cop

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:46

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

MechanicalTomPetty posted:

Wasn't there a one shot not too long ago where Ryuk gives the death note to loving Donald Trump?

And then Donald Trump decides to lock it away instead of using it to murk every last person he disliked, like he absolutely would have immediately done in real life?

I remember Golgo 13 having a story during/about the Bush election lol

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:53

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

MechanicalTomPetty posted:

Wasn't there a one shot not too long ago where Ryuk gives the death note to loving Donald Trump?

And then Donald Trump decides to lock it away instead of using it to murk every last person he disliked, like he absolutely would have immediately done in real life?

There's some rules lawyering such that for the US to take possession of it, he'd have to die, so he refuses out of self preservation.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:55

MechanicalTomPetty: Oct 30, 2011; Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me

On the topic of mystery plots and wrapping things up, I feel like Disco Elysium handled this pretty well. The mystery is compelling and drives the main plot along but is ultimately kind of ancillary to everything else that's going on. The real meat of the story is this absolute disaster of a human being trying and/or failing to put his life back together again, and the mystery serves as the catalyst that sets him down that path and ultimately drives him onwards.

Spoilers for the ending, don't read unless you've played DE (which you really should by the way): I feel like the ending kind of reflects this setup, where the culprit is ultimately dealt with in the end rather quickly and without much hassle. The real climax of the plot is the phasmid encounter right after that, where it basically reaffirms the detectives existence and life up to that point.

MechanicalTomPetty fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 10, 2021

# ? Apr 10, 2021 19:57

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Raphael Ambrosius Cousteau is a better protagonist than we deserved.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 20:13

Mr Phillby: Apr 8, 2009; ~TRAVIS~

David Lynch has at least a vague notion of what's going on in his mysteries he just has no intention of explaining it to anyone.

'Mystery boxes' on the other hand start with no actual solution at all but boy do they want you to try and solve it.

Twin Peaks definitely turned into the latter when Lynch left though, like remember the magic cream corn teleporting old lady in the spooky disapearing house?

Lynch is also the master at leaving himself lots of little weird hooks that make him look like a galaxy brained genius in the future, like the whole "25 years later" was completely arbitary, however the show failed and became cult classic and got to come back 25 years later for season 3, making it seem like it was the plan all along when I'm sure Lynch would have planned around y'know actually making the show and not having a falling out over creative control and leaving.

Like bullshitting and backfilling details is an incredibly more important skill than meticulously planning in the first place.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 20:24

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

I'm not saying that anything that becomes extremely popular automatically becomes bad. However, I will say that if I did say that, you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 20:29

Veib: Dec 10, 2007

Mr Phillby posted:

David Lynch has at least a vague notion of what's going on in his mysteries he just has no intention of explaining it to anyone.

Yeah it's great

quote:

FRANICH: Quick follow-up question: What is the story with Billy?

LYNCH: [Laughs] [Does not answer]

# ? Apr 10, 2021 20:31

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Dabir posted:

I'm not saying that anything that becomes extremely popular automatically becomes bad. However, I will say that if I did say that, you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong.

JoJo still rules even if the massive popularity boom gave it a lot more vocal anime-only fans that can't stop about it.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 20:36

Junpei Hyde: Mar 15, 2013

One Piece is good

# ? Apr 10, 2021 20:59

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Mhm, mhm, interesting. You two raise a good point, I didn't account for things that started out as trash, like Star Wars and Zack Snyder films.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:03

Elephant Parade: Jan 20, 2018

Dabir posted:

I'm not saying that anything that becomes extremely popular automatically becomes bad. However, I will say that if I did say that, you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong.

There are plenty of popular works which are widely considered to be excellent by critics, casual audiences, and hardcore fans alike. Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica and Dark Souls, to name a couple.

e: if you mean "becomes bad" in the sense that continuations of the work become bad, I think these examples still work-- people liked Rebellion, which came out a few years after the original Madoka, along with Bloodborne, a spiritual sequel to Dark Souls

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:04

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Elephant Parade posted:

There are plenty of popular works which are widely considered to be excellent by critics, casual audiences, and hardcore fans alike. Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica and Dark Souls, to name a couple.

e: if you mean "becomes bad" in the sense that continuations of the work become bad, I think these examples still work-- people liked Rebellion, which came out a few years after the original Madoka, along with Bloodborne, a spiritual sequel to Dark Souls

Are you... are you impying Bloodborne is bad?

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:15

dmboogie: Oct 4, 2013

Shyrka posted:

I wish they'd remake Death Note but with Light killing billionaires instead of criminals.

death note would be very boring if light was anything approaching right imo

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:24

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I think they're talking about how popular things get pushback just because they have loud fanbases due to being popular.

If you could search this thread alone for all the permutations of "I wanted to like X but now I hate it because of the fans" you'd see almost every popular IP being mentioned, I think.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:24

Elephant Parade: Jan 20, 2018

MonsieurChoc posted:

Are you... are you impying Bloodborne is bad?

No, I'm implying the opposite: that they're wrong because popular works sometimes have very strong continuations/sequels (e.g. popular game/series Dark Souls receiving acclaimed spiritual entry Bloodborne). I probably could've been clearer about that.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:28

PhysicsFrenzy: May 30, 2011; this, too, is physics

MonsieurChoc posted:

Are you... are you impying Bloodborne is bad?

I think they're implying that Rebellion is good

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:28

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Dias posted:

I think they're talking about how popular things get pushback just because they have loud fanbases due to being popular.

If you could search this thread alone for all the permutations of "I wanted to like X but now I hate it because of the fans" you'd see almost every popular IP being mentioned, I think.

No, the things themselves become bad and you can trace it to the moment they got popular. Obviously if they're completed before they get popular they're hard to retroactively ruin. Bloodborne isn't the correct example, Dark Souls 2 is and that game personally came to my house and shot me in the face.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:30

Katt: Nov 14, 2017

Junpei Hyde posted:

One Piece is good

I think most of the villains are actually interesting while the heroes are kind of bland and boring. It's also laughably horny and for some reason most female characters share the same face (Luffys face but with eyelashes and sparklier eyes)

Why did Arlong offer to sell back that village for a hundred million when it was generating 25 million every month in tribute?

Did the units get messed up in the translation?

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:33

Ariong: Jun 25, 2012; Get bashed, platonist!

Dabir posted:

No, the things themselves become bad and you can trace it to the moment they got popular. Obviously if they're completed before they get popular they're hard to retroactively ruin. Bloodborne isn't the correct example, Dark Souls 2 is and that game personally came to my house and shot me in the face.

Mods, I don�t know what this person did to get on the poo poo list of the best dark souls game but it�s probably bannable!

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:34

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Ariong posted:

Mods, I don’t know what this person did to get on the poo poo list of the best dark souls game but it’s probably bannable!

I will never forgive Hayao Miyazaki

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:35

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Katt posted:

I think most of the villains are actually interesting while the heroes are kind of bland and boring. It's also laughably horny and for some reason most female characters share the same face (Luffys face but with eyelashes and sparklier eyes)

One Piece was really good up until the Whitebeard War arc and I don't think it's really come close since, on top of Oda getting a little weird(er) about women with the timeskip. I'm told he's getting over it but I don't want to have to plow through my backlog to get there.

Also give Robin her skin tone back you cowards.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:36

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

Dawgstar posted:

One Piece was really good up until the Whitebeard War arc and I don't think it's really come close since, on top of Oda getting a little weird(er) about women with the timeskip. I'm told he's getting over it but I don't want to have to plow through my backlog to get there.

Also give Robin her skin tone back you cowards.

One piece has been super good for like five years now

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:39

MechanicalTomPetty: Oct 30, 2011; Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me

Katt posted:

I think most of the villains are actually interesting while the heroes are kind of bland and boring. It's also laughably horny and for some reason most female characters share the same face (Luffys face but with eyelashes and sparklier eyes)

Why did Arlong offer to sell back that village for a hundred million when it was generating 25 million every month in tribute?

Did the units get messed up in the translation?

Because Arlong was a shithead who had no intention of following though on his end of the bargain, as soon as it looked like she might get close he sicced his cop buddy on her so he could walk away with the loot.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:56

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# ? May 31, 2024 03:19

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

I like One Piece, but haki stuff was a mainly lame development to me, the fruits added enough cool ways to bend people's powers without needing to go into power aura junk.

# ? Apr 10, 2021 21:58

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Rapidly Going Deaf > Online Creators V: I believe it is actually his ass cheek and balls

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