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WrightOfWay posted:Speaking of artifacts of unknown origin, do we know anything about the Tupsimati and where it came from? It seems stupid strong for something Louisoix just had lying around. The lore book just says it's an ancient artifact the Sharlayans found a long time ago, and that there are similarly powerful relics around the world. Their original construction and purpose is unknown. About the Heart of Sabik, I generally thought it had more to do with Ultima, the High Seraph, than it did the Allagans. It powers Ultima, which shares the name of some extradimensional being from god knows where.
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Apr 10, 2021 18:08
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Gearhead posted:(Seriously, guys, the man is suffering enough.) Incorrect, imo.
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Apr 10, 2021 18:10
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Gearhead posted:So I'm sitting here putting string between pushpins on Endwalker, because I have little better to do until all hell breaks loose next week. The way they cut the Ultima riff into the 5.5 trailer had me thinking the Heart of Sabik was going to be involved in Zenos’s Zodiark manifestation plot somehow
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Apr 10, 2021 18:11
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I thought the magic Ultima was named after the spooky space monster Ultima?
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Apr 10, 2021 18:47
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Frankly I think the kids have suffered enough, gently caress Gaius.
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Apr 10, 2021 18:56
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Ultima could cast Ultima so they worshipped her and also called her Ultima. Then there's the primal-eating weapon that can cast Ultima, also called Ultima. Also there is the primal-copying warrior weapon called Ultima that does not seem to be able to cast Ultima. And who could forget the beast called Ultima that can apparently cast "Slow Demi Ultima."
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Apr 10, 2021 18:56
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At some point Ultima wanted to roleplay as an Ascian so she rolled an Altima.
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Apr 10, 2021 19:29
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Cleretic posted:I'm honestly surprised the Heart of Sabik hasn't come up in the Weapon questlines. You'd think it would've been a big deal, at least as a design struggle to overcome, how to replace something like THAT. it literally has, in the sapphire weapon part of the story cid basically says "yeah the heart of sabik was probably some kinda auracite. auracite can do some crazy poo poo and who knows how close behind the synthetic version is" that doesn't mean it can't come up as a bigger deal again but right now they seem comfortable handwaving it as "idk auracite i guess"
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Apr 10, 2021 19:48
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Chillgamesh posted:The way they cut the Ultima riff into the 5.5 trailer had me thinking the Heart of Sabik was going to be involved in Zenos’s Zodiark manifestation plot somehow One of the theories I've kicked around in my head is the possibility that the Ultima we fought in the Ivalice storyline is a Primal that was, in fact, a Summon that tapped into the original arrival of Ultima on The Planet and The Real Ultima may be what Zodiark turned The Sound That Destroyed The World into as a part of him setting the world back in order. This would help to explain how Auracite was on the 13th and why nobody has pushed actual Auracite weapons seriously since the Heart of Sabik and the weapons used on the 13th. It could be that we are being deliberately misled to create a new generation of Auracite Weapons now by the Lucavi and their allies and, with the potential upcoming death of Zodiark, the Real Ultima may be unleashed again, even in some diminished form. aegof posted:Ultima could cast Ultima so they worshipped her and also called her Ultima. Then there's the primal-eating weapon that can cast Ultima, also called Ultima. Also there is the primal-copying warrior weapon called Ultima that does not seem to be able to cast Ultima. And who could forget the beast called Ultima that can apparently cast "Slow Demi Ultima." Which came first is difficult to say. 'Ultima' is the ultimate magic. 'Ultima' is the ultimate destructive force. A space monster landed on the world and ruined everything, was the space monster named Ultima for its ability to cause devastation, or was the effect of its passing named for it? Gearhead fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 20:23
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Gearhead posted:(Seriously, guys, the man is suffering enough.) No. He shouldn't get his war trophies back.
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Apr 10, 2021 21:32
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The real question is when do we get the beef soft tacos CUL recipe...
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Apr 10, 2021 21:47
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:The real question is when do we get the beef soft tacos CUL recipe... Koji is already pestering the artists to draw a taco icon
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Apr 10, 2021 21:56
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Chillgamesh posted:The way they cut the Ultima riff into the 5.5 trailer had me thinking the Heart of Sabik was going to be involved in Zenos’s Zodiark manifestation plot somehow Going by the preview of Diamond we got in the latest live letter, that part's actually from Diamond's raid. It's not opening with the Primals version of Ultima like the rest.
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Apr 11, 2021 02:44
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Gearhead posted:(Seriously, guys, the man is suffering enough.) Genocidal fascists don't deserve happy endings imo.
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Apr 11, 2021 02:58
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I should also point out that right now Gaius is a fascist locked in a Gundam story. I would not give him favorable odds of survival.
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Apr 11, 2021 03:12
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Cleretic posted:I should also point out that right now Gaius is a fascist locked in a Gundam story. I want him to survive just so he can see Garlemald destroyed in 6.0. I mean, have you see the art for the Garlemald capital? That place looks like a nuke went off. Only after he loses his family and his country... then he can die.
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Apr 11, 2021 03:18
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Cythereal posted:Genocidal fascists don't deserve happy endings imo. Gaius was explicitly NOT a genocidal fascist. His entire GIMMICK was 'We can't save dead people from themselves.' He KILLED genocidal fascists. Heirsbane was so named because he killed the poo poo out of anyone he thought was too much of a maniac to sit on the throne. Now Varis, Varis was a genocidal fascist. And he died like a dog. Gearhead fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 03:50
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He is genocidal specifically against "beast" tribes.
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Apr 11, 2021 04:01
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SirSamVimes posted:He is genocidal specifically against "beast" tribes. Garleans have an interesting definition of beast, and he's sitting there in ARR, speaking with the Warrior of Light, someone who is LEGALLY a Beast, asking them to take up arms and ally with him to conquer the world. Gaius' sins are that he was an authoritarian and may still be a bad judge of character.
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Apr 11, 2021 04:03
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Why do dogs have to have bad deaths? Dogs' deaths shouldn't be considered bad by default.
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Apr 11, 2021 04:08
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SirSamVimes posted:He is genocidal specifically against "beast" tribes. Gaius is/was a jackass, but his problem with the Beast Tribes is that they were prone to summoning Primals, and Garlemald had a very anti-Eikon stance. Part of their reason for wanting to conquer the world was because if everywhere was Garlemald, then folks wouldn't be trying to summon primals all the time because all of the fascism would stomp out the attempts and make the knowledge lost and forgotten.
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Apr 11, 2021 05:52
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the_steve posted:Gaius is/was a jackass, but his problem with the Beast Tribes is that they were prone to summoning Primals, and Garlemald had a very anti-Eikon stance. This argument of course falls apart come Stormblood, where Lakshmi is summoned despite (or likely because of, but who's counting, really) Garlean occupation.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:08
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Gaius is a complex character who is compelling largely due to the sincerity of his beliefs, awful and self-serving as they were. Now that he's had them thoroughly shattered and been pitted against his homeland, and now that he's having to deal with recognizing the consequences of his actions are falling upon the people he (stuntedly) cares about, it's far more interesting to see how he grows or fails to grow as a result of it and whether or not he's capable of admitting and coming to terms with what he's done.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:17
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the_steve posted:Gaius is/was a jackass, but his problem with the Beast Tribes is that they were prone to summoning Primals, and Garlemald had a very anti-Eikon stance. Gaius was probably one of the more decent people we've met with a third eye who was still serving the Empire. But he was misguided, heavy handed and thought Garlemauld could only be failed, not the other way around. Since then he has had it demonstrated to him that the people he was fighting for are NOT the people he thought he was fighting for, the society he thought he was fighting for was a lie and the people he thought were upright and forthright were complete dickbags. Even Varis failed him, in the end, deciding to make the ultimate 'gently caress you, got mine!' bid in an attempt to eke one out over the rest of creation.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:18
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Blows my mind that people are so opposed to depth or nuanced characterization that they just plug their ears and yell fascist anytime Gaius comes up.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:24
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Cleretic posted:This argument of course falls apart come Stormblood, where Lakshmi is summoned despite (or likely because of, but who's counting, really) Garlean occupation. I mean that's the entire basis of the Ascian plan to found a fascist nation for the purpose of destabilising the world. Emet (aka Solus) gave them the foundational ideals of a) hunting Primals b) subjugating "lesser" populaces while other Ascians went around teaching the subjugated peoples how to summon their gods. It's actually pretty brilliant and worked very nicely to trigger one rejoining and was on its way to causing a second if not for WoL interference.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:30
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Blows my mind that people are so opposed to depth or nuanced characterization that they just plug their ears and yell fascist anytime Gaius comes up. Gaius was a fascist, though. He was the general of a fascist dictatorship. And in this day and with what's going on in the world I can't really blame people who aren't willing or wanting to try and look through his eyes or appreciate his characterization. I wouldn't ask them to do that of actual fascists, and can only manage it here because Gaius isn't real, excuses haven't been made for his evils (he's outright called them such himself), and I'm a sucker for the possibility of a tense and difficult redemption story. The game knows what Gaius did is wrong, and so I'm not bothered.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:38
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Oh he absolutely is a fascist but there's more to him and that's why he's interesting. When people just go "hes fash end of story." and treat any examination of what makes him tic as apologia or whatever it's a huge disservice to the story.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:40
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Cleretic posted:This argument of course falls apart come Stormblood, where Lakshmi is summoned despite (or likely because of, but who's counting, really) Garlean occupation. Things in Gyr Abania started going to hell when Gaius was removed, I suspect that getting him killed in some way was a high priority wether or not Ultima Weapon actually worked out.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:42
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I'm starting to wonder what the crossover is between the people that go 'Gaius fascist, end of story, let's go home' and the people who do much the same with Emet. Because the former seems way more common than the latter, which doesn't seem quite right to me.
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Apr 11, 2021 06:53
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It's because Emet is a lot more charismatic and a lot more sad.
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Apr 11, 2021 07:02
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Also more people want to gently caress him
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Apr 11, 2021 07:21
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Cleretic posted:I'm starting to wonder what the crossover is between the people that go 'Gaius fascist, end of story, let's go home' and the people who do much the same with Emet.  "join me, warrior of light, and become my bass lass/koi boi" Emet's perspective is at least different and isn't beaten to death, and he also has humor and a more nuanced characterization.
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Apr 11, 2021 07:22
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I mean, one eternal truth is that being fuckable means you can get away with a lot. Game or irl.
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Apr 11, 2021 07:23
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Seeing the same cutscene multiple times in the MSQ roulette isn't a failure of the writing
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Apr 11, 2021 07:24
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Estinian, difficult to deal with, betrayed us often, brainwashed constantly. Everyone wants him. Emet, difficult to deal with, snide, openly treacherous. Everyone wants him. Gaius, open and forthright about wanting to rule the world, wants us to join him. Reminds everyone of their father. Edit: I suppose if there IS one thing about Ominous Masked Father Figures, Gaius at least still looks like he could be voiced by James Earl Jones with the mask off.
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Apr 11, 2021 07:27
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Uh the most ominous masked father figure is Lord Lolorito.
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Apr 11, 2021 07:53
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Nessus posted:Leaving aside any selection effect, Gaius is presented much more specifically and strongly as a military leader, to the point where we did not see his face, ever, until the end of Stormblood. We also saw his whole shtick like ten thousand times in Prae runs, and that entire shtick is basically: While I don't think it's the writing's fault that people willingly do the No Fun Roulette, this does touch on something that I think causes that imbalance beyond 'one of these two is hot' (which I also disagree with, I think Gaius is better-looking, but I'm not into either). Gaius has one big defining scene, and it's directly grappling with his views and outlook. Every other time he appears it's basically just to set up for further events, including the Weapon storyline, at least so far. So his only real defining scene is him screaming 'I'm a fascist, debate me, cowards'. Meanwhile, Emet has a whole bunch of defining scenes, but none of them really directly address or take him to task for... you know, the genocides and everything, not nearly to the level Gaius got. Emet is allowed to exist in basically every state but 'guy who invented fascism and caused countless genocides', despite being exactly that. Meanwhile, Gaius has so far only been permitted to excist as 'Fascist Guy', despite having more going on than that. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 08:00
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Lmao at the implication that people didn't immediately start thirsting for Gaius once he was shown helmetless.
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Apr 11, 2021 08:04
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Gaius is infinitely more attractive than Emet.
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Apr 11, 2021 08:09
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