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So, I actually manage crypto money (more than I'll ever see myself, surely) for HNW and institutional clients. However, unlike xtal and others with ego problems, these folks aren't jackasses. One told me he was excited to be funding and building a special needs school in Haiti. Another told me to prepare for donations to charity with my commission as they're adding more funds. These people actually focus on trying to improve the world. Please continue to probate xtal forever. If they were so crypto rich they wouldn't be donating 10 loving dollars. lol notwithoutmyanus fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 07:08
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low key sex master posted:I check this thread on occasion because it's way too dense for me at times but I swear to God every single time I go to the last page I have to go back one because some weirdass had a meltdown It's not really a superpower when that happens every other page.
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Apr 10, 2021 11:02
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never touch a blockchain. it has a 100% record of turning people into bad/worse posters
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Apr 10, 2021 11:06
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blockchain posted:Type !blockchain and solve 199+64 to enter something into the blockchain.
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Apr 10, 2021 11:10
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notwithoutmyanus posted:So, I actually manage crypto money (more than I'll ever see myself, surely) for HNW and institutional clients. However, unlike xtal and others with ego problems, these folks aren't jackasses. One told me he was excited to be funding and building a special needs school in Haiti. Another told me to prepare for donations to charity with my commission as they're adding more funds. These people actually focus on trying to improve the world. Please continue to probate xtal forever. Is there some reason they couldn't build a school with dollars? What is it about crypto that has allowed them to be charitable? Or are you saying all their money comes from crypto because they got lucky and hodled
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Apr 10, 2021 23:14
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Illuminti posted:Is there some reason they couldn't build a school with dollars? What is it about crypto that has allowed them to be charitable? They're paying in dollars. It's just the generation of money is from Crypto. These people don't hodl. Most of what I do is accumulation of coins (btc, ada, eth, and so on). So maybe they gain 15% btc holdings in a month, for example.
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Apr 11, 2021 01:05
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I work with some people that dove into the deep end of the crypto pool. Sounds like they got in early on the ramp up to the current price, so the spend at least half of each shift talking about whatever the current hot coin is. Hearing all the Reddit jargon, I only half joking told them, “one day you guys are going to have a stroke, and we are not going to have any clue”.
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Apr 11, 2021 01:15
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notwithoutmyanus posted:They're paying in dollars. It's just the generation of money is from Crypto. These people don't hodl. Most of what I do is accumulation of coins (btc, ada, eth, and so on). So maybe they gain 15% btc holdings in a month, for example. Wow that's amazing gains. And for a good cause too! Poggers.
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Apr 11, 2021 08:21
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:i have now gotten 3 PMs from them lol the mixing of slang is triggering me
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Apr 11, 2021 12:14
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has anyone said buttcoin yet
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Apr 11, 2021 14:41
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Rectal Death Deft posted:has anyone said buttcoin yet asspog
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Apr 11, 2021 16:51
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notwithoutmyanus posted:So, I actually manage crypto money (more than I'll ever see myself, surely) for HNW and institutional clients. However, unlike xtal and others with ego problems, these folks aren't jackasses. One told me he was excited to be funding and building a special needs school in Haiti. Another told me to prepare for donations to charity with my commission as they're adding more funds. These people actually focus on trying to improve the world. Please continue to probate xtal forever. In a zero sum game like bitcoin (and it is) when you gain 1000 bux from it, someone else has lost 1000 bux. Given that cryto "enthusiasts" are now advertising this poo poo to pensioners and boomers as a "retirement investors" (and the ASA and the irish garda has had to start cracking down it after a few 6 figure bitcoin scams, infact) it's quite likely they're paying for those donations to schools and suchlike with money that people needed for retirement and were scammed into.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:07
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Illuminti posted:Is there some reason they couldn't build a school with dollars? What is it about crypto that has allowed them to be charitable? notwithoutmyanus posted:They're paying in dollars. It's just the generation of money is from Crypto. These people don't hodl. Most of what I do is accumulation of coins (btc, ada, eth, and so on). So maybe they gain 15% btc holdings in a month, for example.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:33
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Drone_Fragger posted:In a zero sum game like bitcoin (and it is) when you gain 1000 bux from it, someone else has lost 1000 bux.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:54
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Drone_Fragger posted:In a zero sum game like bitcoin (and it is)  it is a negative sum game. power companies are constantly draining real money from the market
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Apr 11, 2021 22:03
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Hammerite posted:
Btw, who are the biggest bitcoin shovel sellers these days? Are they still essentially scams who "burn in" their equipment while it is still profitable?
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Apr 11, 2021 22:10
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Munin posted:Btw, who are the biggest bitcoin shovel sellers these days? Are they still essentially scams who "burn in" their equipment while it is still profitable? You can look at the exact location of every Helium network miner on a map. You can zoom in on them and see exactly how much money that guy running a miner is making. For example, at the current 17:1 HNT:USD exchange rate this random dude in Iowa is making $540/month by just letting a wifi router run in his attic and there are people making a lot more than that. You're probably already thinking about how you could get in on this wifi router racket, but here's the catch: Only four companies are allowed to make Helium miners. They used to allow people to DIY their own routers, but after some captains of industry figured out they could make routers that lied about the good they were doing they switched to only allowing approved Helium network miners. Despite being ~$100 worth of parts the chosen manufacturers can sell the routers for $429 a pop and they're backordered for months. quote:To order more than 50 Bobcat Miners, please contact partner@bobcatminer.com with subject line ORDER 50 AND MORE. Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 23:52
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Gazpacho posted:though if they had held there would be tax advantages (under US law) to donating appreciated bits rather than dollars to a willing charity Re zero sum, I don't think it can be or everything would have gone bust from people losing continually. People are constantly pouring in money, it seems. Even though we hear sob stories of foolish people mortgaging homes for crypto it still goes up. If everything has to be zero sum then we can't have a market at all. Also the idiots pumping helium token are making it one of my most profitable coins to run algos (and extract btc) from notwithoutmyanus fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 06:25
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notwithoutmyanus posted:Guarantee you they don't care. I actually wonder if they're doing it for tax breaks. A zero sum market can run until it runs out of bag holders.
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Apr 12, 2021 06:34
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Munin posted:Btw, who are the biggest bitcoin shovel sellers these days? Are they still essentially scams who "burn in" their equipment while it is still profitable? same as its been for several years, a chinese company called Bitmain Bitmain's founder was notable for being the guy who decided the protocol wouldn't change to become more easily adopted and this caused the fork wars a few years back Literally one guy said no Something something decentralized network
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Apr 12, 2021 06:34
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notwithoutmyanus posted:Re zero sum, I don't think it can be or everything would have gone bust from people losing continually. People are constantly pouring in money, it seems. Even though we hear sob stories of foolish people mortgaging homes for crypto it still goes up. If everything has to be zero sum then we can't have a market at all. it's not just zero sum, it's negative sum, as I say. but yes idiots are pouring money in, idiots pumping money in and losing it has been a major feature of cryptocurrency for just about its entire existence. also Tether is constantly pumping "money" in and the illiquidity and obfuscation + general stupidity of the whole space means that until the Tether operators decide to exit, the essentially valueless nature of Tethers isn't realised by market participants
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Apr 12, 2021 09:57
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Crypto is zero sum because nothing of value is being produced - no product, no service, nothing. NFTs might have been useful, in theory, but their actual application is basically worthless, so no dice there. No bank is creating credit to loan to people for the purpose of buying or mining crypto, so it's just dollars being traded around for ownership of crypto, but no-one is then able to turn crypto ownership into economic growth. Money is still flowing in because the capital generated by economically useful activity is being sunk into it, but at no point will crypto become an economically useful endeavour in itself, so once fools are no longer being parted with their money, it falls over, or at best gently collapses as true believers keep shovelling cash in to prevent a total collapse. E: and as mentioned above, because there is a cost to producing and trading crypto, that makes it negative sum.
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Apr 12, 2021 11:07
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I'd say both Crypto and NFT are huge net-negatives on the planet, but even if you disregard the environmental impact: The money invested in Bitcoin could have gone to some more useful investment, instead.
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Apr 12, 2021 11:15
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:but no-one is then able to turn crypto ownership into economic growth. Ok don't attack me but what if people with less money who invest in crypto and then it spikes up so by luck they have more money and then cash out and go and buy more things or invest in a local business, public project or charity doesn't that transfer some of the money from the wealthy people who spiked the cyrpto to the local economy?
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Apr 12, 2021 11:19
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Flannelette posted:Ok don't attack me but what if people with less money who invest in crypto and then it spikes up so by luck they have more money and then cash out and go and buy more things or invest in a local business, public project or charity doesn't that transfer some of the money from the wealthy people who spiked the cyrpto to the local economy? This is literally trickle down economics; ie a fake idea designed around assuming outliers will be the norm and everyone will win the lottery
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Apr 12, 2021 11:26
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Flannelette posted:Ok don't attack me but what if people with less money who invest in crypto and then it spikes up so by luck they have more money and then cash out and go and buy more things or invest in a local business, public project or charity doesn't that transfer some of the money from the wealthy people who spiked the cyrpto to the local economy? Okay, so in this case a guy buys a crypto coin from a guy for $10, and it goes up to $100 where he sells. That guy “makes” $90, pays taxes on it, and spends it all in a local business or whatever. Good? Good. Wrong. The other guy who just bought it for $100 no longer has $100 to spend, invest, or do anything with. His community loses $100. Maybe it goes up, and some other poor sucker buys it for $200 letting this current dude enrich his local community by $100. Some idiot now has a $200 crypto coin and his community loses $200. Bitcoin will always, zero exception, have someone left holding a bag one day. You hope it’s rich people who can bear the loss, but probably not. It is a zero-sum (negative sum if considering the environmental toll) game because bitcoins, the actual “asset” of a Bitcoin, is 100% useless in all regards except as a storage of value. People will make money on Bitcoin from now until the day it crashes, but ultimately everyone holding a Bitcoin at some point in the future will never be able to get their money back for it. It might be a hundred, thousand years, or maybe tomorrow. You could make the argument that everything will be valueless one day, but it’s more likely and imminent that the value of a beanie baby will be near-zero than, like, a horse. Or a car. Bitcoins are just digital beanie babies. Or maybe that’s NFT? jokes fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 11:46
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Flannelette posted:Ok don't attack me but what if people with less money who invest in crypto and then it spikes up so by luck they have more money and then cash out and go and buy more things or invest in a local business, public project or charity doesn't that transfer some of the money from the wealthy people who spiked the cyrpto to the local economy? Someone does that and in doing so takes that same value spike from someone else. The person they bought from could have gone out to buy more things or invest in a local business, public project or charity, and that person they bought from could also be a person with less money and a crypto investment, or, and given the current price point this is quite likely, even less money than our protagonist. That value spike also comes from somewhere, usually lots of people putting money into the system or side ventures directly related to the system that will crash with it if it collapses, or even if it flatlines for a while. It also has to be cashed out, which means that while our protagonist rides the wave, in order to benefit from that wave they have to take money out of the system, pushing someone else into the system at a high point and simultaneously causing other people's crypto to fall in value. If the value is high enough, they won't find a buyer. Yes, if you look at it from a solipsistic lens, a single person can make money out of crypto, but every dollar they make is a dollar they're taking from someone else. E: Moved to a second post Somfin fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 11:46
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^^^ man we said the same thing! Zero sum games are hard to conceptualize because people have difficulty understanding the perspective of a total market, with both buyers and sellers. Stocks are also very similar. When you buy a stock, someone else is selling it. So there is no situation in which more stocks are bought than sold, only that more people are trying to buy than people are trying to sell which creates price pressure to move the thing up. But at the end of the day, SOMEONE bought Lehman brothers at every price point on its way down until it got delisted. Some erstwhile moron is currently holding a share of Lehman Brothers that he bought for $100. Unlike the poor suckers holding Bitcoins during its ultimate crash (in the future!), the Lehman shareholder is entitled to some legal claim on the assets of the company. Bitcoin entitles you to nothing. jokes fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 11:54
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jokes posted:^^^ man we said the same thing! Zero sum games are hard to conceptualize because people have difficulty understanding the perspective of a total market, with both buyers and sellers. Stocks are also very similar. When you buy a stock, someone else is selling it. So there is no situation in which more stocks are bought than sold, only that more people are trying to buy than people are trying to sell which creates price pressure to move the thing up. But at the end of the day, SOMEONE bought Lehman brothers at every price point on its way down until it got delisted. Rather than edit my post I'm gonna differentiate my tack here: If I take a computer and an internet connection and a bunch of time and put in a whole lot of effort, I can create a game about funny frogs that I can exchange with people for money. The people who exchange that money with me do not want the game to go up in value; they are not expecting to be able to sell it again; the value of it is in what they experience in playing the game, which is either worth or not worth the money that they paid for it. However, that game exists and if you pay me money for it you get that experience. The overall amount of value in the world has increased, because the total amount of money has stayed the same but a lot of folks have had a positive experience from playing that game about funny frogs that I made, and, having paid me, they can at any point have another round of playing that game about funny frogs. All of that money is now part of my local community and a lot of it ends up in the hands of local liquor stores because I have problems, but the point is, none of the people who sent me money feel ripped off and at no point will their payment to me turn into nothing. This is, incidentally, one of the major reasons that people are wary of Steam and other "digital storefronts," and one of the reasons that the closure of the Playstation 3 store is such a brutal blow is because all of a sudden that is not true and a product you have purchased is going to turn into nothing. The only value in crypto is selling that crypto on in the future. The total amount of value in the world can only ever stay level because the only value in crypto is what you can eventually be paid for it, and that number must return to zero at some point, because deep inside all of the people playing the crypto game know that the real value of all of their crypto is zero. Either lots of people lose a lot of money over a long period of time or there's just a sudden halt and the people who bought in latest, or held the longest, get nothing. E: Just to be clear, not disagreeing, I just realised after I posted my thing that I had said the same thing as you and wanted to explain the alternative
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Apr 12, 2021 12:02
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I'm confused - are you saying that buying crypto is like speculating on the stock market or trading foreign currencies?
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Apr 12, 2021 12:07
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Well there’s utility, and that’s arguably the truest source of value in the world. I suppose with digital storefronts the other issue is that you’re buying a license which has some utility but it’s not the amount of utility you had hoped for or had come to expect, in the event of a service shutdown. So it’s more value than a movie ticket, but less value than a DVD. But I have a nasty habit of losing/breaking DVDs and try not to store too much stuff so digital storefronts and digital licenses is actually just the best bang for my buck. And it’s the most environmentally friendly option.
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Apr 12, 2021 12:14
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Warthog posted:I'm confused - are you saying that buying crypto is like speculating on the stock market or trading foreign currencies? Buying crypto is like speculating on the stock market but only if buying a stock entitled you to absolutely nothing, ever, beyond a cost basis and a transferable line of code that says you own that stock. Your entire value in that stock is derived, completely no exception, in the value someone else is willing to pay for it. A real stock derives a lot of value from what someone else is willing to pay for it, but a stock is a legal claim on assets and profits and entitles you to certain rights and protections. Many people buy stocks, and make their investment back plus extra without ever needing to sell. Many billionaires made their billions by simply owning stock and collecting dividends and distributions without ever needing to find a greater fool. jokes fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 12:16
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jokes posted:Buying crypto is like speculating on the stock market but only if buying a stock entitled you to absolutely nothing, ever, beyond a cost basis and a transferable line of code that says you own that stock. Your entire value in that stock is derived, completely no exception, in the value someone else is willing to pay for it. So I buy $1'000 worth of Walmart stocks which then entitles me to get a dividend of $15.70 every year plus the stocks' increase in value and should they go bust I can take a fridge? I'm not a billionaire so I'll just ignore that part...
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Apr 12, 2021 12:40
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Yeah pretty much. But in the event of a liquidation, common stockholders are paid last (if at all).
jokes fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 12:45
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if i short shitcoin, thereby ripping off the neckbeards who actually think it's the future of currency, am i morally in the wrong?
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Apr 12, 2021 13:22
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Hmm... so basically the higher the risk of my investment the higher the possible returns on it still sounds a lot like every other investment opportunity
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Apr 12, 2021 13:23
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The highest risk should generate the highest returns, quick get a match!
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Apr 12, 2021 13:33
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Every day for the past two weeks twitter is trying to advertise to me this hot new solution. "Timing the market is hard", it says. So why not automate it? You can pay them (minimum) $50 dollars a week, which they will use to buy you butts once a week so that you can "build your stack". lmao marketing algorithms think that because i say buttcoin i actually want buttcoin
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Apr 12, 2021 14:06
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Warthog posted:Hmm... Missing some key points with the "it's just higher risk" but somewhat correct! But now ask any true believer what bitcoin is, and they will tell you it is a currency. Now ask yourself what is the value of a currency whose value consistently and rapidly changes over the course of a single day, transactions are commonly taking 10-30 minutes, and if you buy a $2 coke it'll cost an extra $20+ in transaction fees. Add in the environmental aspect, lack of regulation (touted as a bonus until an exchange takes your money) and child porn. There are obviously other investment vehicles that are safer, but there are also better risky investment vehicles with the same capacity of gains and risk without the downsides specific to bitcoin. In short: buy bitcoin, it can only go up.
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Apr 12, 2021 14:13
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decided to short 1INCH if it goes down to the price i want, im going to make $27.4 if it goes up instead, i've got a stop loss set up so i only lose $5.27 i literally do not see a downside to this someone help im turning into a dickhead
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Apr 12, 2021 14:27
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