(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Mr Phillby posted:When I was a kid I played Doom with all the cheats on because the game was too scary otherwise. I just liked exploring the levels and finding secrets. I didn't play the intended way but I experienced a lot of the game's atmosphere and design in a way that felt comfortable. If Doom can be welcoming to new players without it being a huge deal I don't see why it would be a problem for any game to do the same at all? I don't care if someone uses cheats and I think games should have cheats in them again but yes souls would suffer if it didn't have the sense of constant looming danger and kick your rear end a lot. beyond it being more fun to engage with the mechanics instead of just bullshitting your way through its critical to the games' tone, pacing and worldbuilding. I don't think you are properly experiencing 20 hour game when you turn it into a two hour one
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Apr 13, 2021 05:19
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who cares if someone isn't properly experiencing it though. are you lurking outside their house watching it doesn't matter
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Apr 13, 2021 05:25
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IronicDongz posted:not sure if it's "inane" to start a discussion about dark souls in the dark souls thread and have people respond to it. unless having a dark souls thread in the first place is already "inane". but then again I also do not buy that there would be that much disagreement on those topics, there's not that many posters in those threads and none of them ever have people saying things like "if you use a shield in dark souls you didn't beat the game" I never said there are people saying "if you use a shield in dark souls you didn't beat the game" in the threads. I said people will argue over what in-game options will ruin the experience of the games. And I think there is also an obvious difference between when someone is posting smarmy stuff and trying to have a discussion, and it's pretty clear when one is happening and not the other in a video game thread. This isn't a personal attack on you or the threads and if I thought it was a constant or persistent problem I certainly wouldn't be reading or participating in them. I hope this makes it clear that I do not think the SA Dark Souls threads are gamefaqs* hellholes. *I don't actually know if gamefaqs is a hellhole.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:25
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The 7th Guest posted:who cares if someone isn't properly experiencing it though. are you lurking outside their house watching I would care. I'm talking about my experience playing these games. if, hypothetically, they made them easier at the expense of that experience it would suck because I like the design how it is. if you wanna watch a tarkovsky movie and fast forward through all the long shots then go ahead but you haven't watched the same movie as me Farm Frenzy fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 05:29
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I think the problem is that there is a rift between people who might still struggle and spend 20 or 40 hours on a game at a lower difficulty for various reasons and people who set a difficulty low just to blow through a thing faster. But like apparently people will also listen to videos and podcasts at 1.5x speed and like I don't get the point of that at all.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:39
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The 7th Guest posted:who cares if someone isn't properly experiencing it though. are you lurking outside their house watching Farm Frenzy posted:I would care. I'm talking about my experience playing these games. if, hypothetically, they made them easier at the expense of that experience it would suck because I like the design how it is. if you wanna watch a tarkovsky movie and fast forward through all the long shots then go ahead but you haven't watched the same movie as me Alternatively, I can't really recommend you drop $20-$70 on a game if you don't care about one or more of the core aspects, and I don't think the game can stand on the more superficial aspects alone. Then again, it depends on the game.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:41
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Nuns with Guns posted:lol yeah you could go start a multi-page flamewar in any of the Souls threads right now regarding weather or not magic/no magic, summoning/no summoning, shields/roll spamming and various other things "ruin" a true Dark Souls playthrough. The SA threads are largely chill save 1-2 shitposters but speaking more generally, bringing it up will inevitably have people crawling out of the woodwork to question your bona fides. Obviously the only reason to want an easy mode in Dark Souls is because you're a dumb idiot baby child who died to the first holliow and promptly rage quit. Maybe try getting gud instead?  Nuns with Guns posted:I think it'd be worthwhile to have more accessibility options in a game like Dark Souls, but something like an "easy mode" that only modifies how much damage an enemy gives/takes or how much HP it has or whatever would be a short-sighted and facile answer to accessibility issues the game would have. My biggest concern would be that is all the devs would do, too. The double standard that says a lot is that people worship Miyazaki for being some galaxy brained genius because he personally put that ambush skeleton there haha you died but the second you wonder how he might approach an easy mode suddenly him and From are nothing but bumbling fools who would fart something out over a lunch break and call it a day. Edit: In fairness, the infinitely more likely thing is for From to scramble to actually finish the game and subsequently gently caress up the difficulty stuff as a consequence of that. Because despite what weirdos believe every single Souls game is chockablock with problems caused by some combination of the budget running out, time crunch, and/or general mismanagement. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 05:46
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i think that sometimes the difficulty of a game is intrinsic to the feeling it is trying to evoke and changing that difficulty cuts against the core of the game. but also the majority of games aren't like that, and some of them even incorporate that into being about difficutly and perseverence, most notably Celeste, with its assist mode options.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:48
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I generally play things on normal mode so I have no idea how to actually fix accessibility for people. One person mentioned subtitle size and I am all for that getting increased. Give me the big blocky CONTROL name plates when you go to a new section of the map for the first time. I want them to rumble my house and cause an earthquake every time a new word comes on screen.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:56
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Nuns with Guns posted:I think the problem is that there is a rift between people who might still struggle and spend 20 or 40 hours on a game at a lower difficulty for various reasons and people who set a difficulty low just to blow through a thing faster. But like apparently people will also listen to videos and podcasts at 1.5x speed and like I don't get the point of that at all.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:59
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Sydin posted:The death of Gameshark/Action Replay is a bummer, it was such a cool little niche of gaming. In one of the many old boxes I haven't opened in close a decade, I wonder if I still have the binders of Animal Crossing AR codes I printed out to get rare furniture and gyroids off of Nook. The advent of online multiplayer for consoles sadly killed off that kind of cheating. At least as a marketable thing that companies could make money on. You can still achieve similar results on modern post-PS3/Xbox 360 consoles, but you have to resort to homebrew apps and jailbreaking. Hyperkin managed to release a version of the Game Genie for the PlayStation 3 near the end of the PS3's lifecycle and it was a really robust hexediting program with a decently sized hacking community who could create all kinds of cheats for it. Unfortunately, Hyperkin was/is a sketchy fly-by-night company, so its support for the PS3 GameGenie didn't last but a few years at the most. The forums where all the user created codes were found are now long dead and I think they also pulled the plug on the servers you had to connect to in order to run your save files through to import the cheats. But I appreciated the PS2/PS1 cheating devices like Gameshark and Codebreaker because they actually helped me clear out a large swath of my backlog for those systems by cutting down on a lot of the time and hassle in certain places in certain games. And that's what I miss about modern games.
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Apr 13, 2021 07:22
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Impermanent posted:i think that sometimes the difficulty of a game is intrinsic to the feeling it is trying to evoke and changing that difficulty cuts against the core of the game. but also the majority of games aren't like that, and some of them even incorporate that into being about difficutly and perseverence, most notably Celeste, with its assist mode options. I've been trying to imagine what an easy mode version of Lobotomy Corporation would look like, but the way it's written makes the difficulty part of the point.
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Apr 13, 2021 07:24
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Some higher difficulties are not finely tuned well, but then you've got poo poo like KH2 Final Mix's Critical Level 1 which is pretty much the most fun poo poo ever, so hard as hell poo poo can also be the best experience a game has to offer
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Apr 13, 2021 08:00
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Cheat "devices" are still around it's just called cheatengine and is pc exclusive, and it's a pretty neat tool for dealing with developer bullshit, intended or not. My problem with people saying that difficulty settings rob people of the intended experience in hard games is that because people have so wildly different skill levels, very few people are getting the same experience against a static difficulty because the gap between it and skill vary so much. Instead having an adjustable difficulty would actually let more players have the intended hard experience because then the gap would be of equal size.
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Apr 13, 2021 08:44
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Ghostlight posted:A lot of people talk insanely slowly.
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Apr 13, 2021 08:46
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For me, I think standardizing things like control customization and color blind mode would go a long way for accessibility issues. There are still plenty of companies who think that one controller configuration is good game design ("we configured the controls this way to evoke a feeling") regardless of whether or not players are comfortable or able to use it properly, and that shuts out a lot of potential players. Hell, I'm pretty sure that if it wasn't for the Switch Lite, Nintendo would have shoved a lot more motion controls into their games
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Apr 13, 2021 08:52
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IronicDongz posted:I don't think I've ever heard someone talk in a way where they wouldn't sound really weird sped up to 1.5x/2x speed
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Apr 13, 2021 09:12
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I think that's its okay for difficult games to exist and that not everything has to be created to appease everybody. Tho it'd be nice if more games had options to help people with disabilities, like the earlier mentioned colorblind modes and control rebinding. Captain Invictus posted:I tend to watch a lot of youtube videos with someone talking, like let's plays and the like, at 1.25 speed and it's usually barely noticeable. I usually start at 1.25 then ramp it up to 1.5 once my brain's used to the increased speed. You barely notice the speed increase if you do it like that.
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Apr 13, 2021 09:23
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Archer666 posted:I think that's its okay for difficult games to exist and that not everything has to be created to appease everybody. On the other hand, modding should be ubiquitous, your copyright can go gently caress itself, and your vision right along with it.
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Apr 13, 2021 10:18
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Shinji2015 posted:For me, I think standardizing things like control customization and color blind mode would go a long way for accessibility issues. There are still plenty of companies who think that one controller configuration is good game design ("we configured the controls this way to evoke a feeling") regardless of whether or not players are comfortable or able to use it properly, and that shuts out a lot of potential players.
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Apr 13, 2021 10:44
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there should be difficulty options so people who are not super skilled can still enjoy games. the tryhards can have their hardcore permadeath modes or whatever, that's fine. having a peaceful equivalent in minecraft is also fine. not everyone has the reflexes to handle the default difficulties of a bayonetta or what have you, easy modes are perfect for those folks while the pros can have their Heaven or Hell modes. having bj blazkowicz in a baby bonnet is also unnecessary, even if it's funny to see the epitome of grizzled manliness in a baby bonnet with a pacifier
Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 11:09
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On the one hand yes, no developers HAVE to give difficulty options, but I just don't agree about it ruining the vision or whatever of the game. If it's some kind of dynamic difficulty system where it gets easier if you keep dying then yeah I think that's bad. But if it's simply an option you can toggle to make whatever game you're playing easier, there's no argument against it that I'll really accept because you can safely ignore it. Captain Invictus posted:there should be difficulty options so people who are not super skilled can still enjoy games. the tryhards can have their hardcore permadeath modes or whatever, that's fine. having a peaceful equivalent in minecraft is also fine. not everyone has the reflexes to handle the default difficulties of a bayonetta or what have you, easy modes are perfect for those folks while the pros can have their Heaven or Hell modes. having bj blazkowicz in a baby bonnet is also unnecessary, even if it's funny to see the epitome of grizzled manliness in a baby bonnet with a pacifier I don't mind the BJ thing just becasue it's a reference to the old games. I feel like the new Wolfenstein games otherwise try to be a bit more progressive (as progressive as that kind of game can get), so I'm willing to give them a pass on haha grizzled man look funny as baby. Hel posted:Cheat "devices" are still around it's just called cheatengine and is pc exclusive, and it's a pretty neat tool for dealing with developer bullshit, intended or not. I used cheatengine to get past the absolute horseshit second to last segment of Control (where you're going up trying to get to the Polaris Orb) and I don't feel bad about it at all. When I played there were not difficulty settings and it really annoyed me (I don't remember if that was a thing they added in later). I didn't want to struggle on the awful combat, I wanted to go through the cool story and interesting SCP like environments Macaluso fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 11:57
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StealthArcher posted:On the other hand, modding should be ubiquitous, your copyright can go gently caress itself, and your vision right along with it. I like it when modders get really, really, bent out of shape about other people modding their mods. Or fanfiction authors getting super upset that someone else wrote fiction of their fan characters.
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Apr 13, 2021 11:58
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Macaluso posted:I used cheatengine to get past the absolute horseshit second to last segment of Control (where you're going up trying to get to the Polaris Orb) and I don't feel bad about it at all. When I played there were not difficulty settings and it really annoyed me (I don't remember if that was a thing they added in later). I didn't want to struggle on the awful combat, I wanted to go through the cool story and interesting SCP like environments same
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Apr 13, 2021 12:14
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StealthArcher posted:On the other hand, modding should be ubiquitous, your copyright can go gently caress itself, and your vision right along with it. I don't disagree. Once the game's out there, nobody's stopping people from modding an easy mode into the game if they feel like it. Nuebot posted:I like it when modders get really, really, bent out of shape about other people modding their mods. Or fanfiction authors getting super upset that someone else wrote fiction of their fan characters. No you see its their vision for how the game ought to have been that's really important.
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Apr 13, 2021 12:18
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just having the option be, well, an option means people will slampick it if they aren't confident, rather than playing on the 'intended' difficulty, even if they'd actually enjoy the intended difficulty more. like plenty of people were scared of dark souls' reputation for being hard but actually found the trial and error aspects enjoyable. if that game just had an easy mode they would have just slammed that in and not gotten that experience. which isnt like, an unbreakable sin of the world or anything, some guy not having as much fun as he could have doesnt effect me, but i do think its an obvious issue with just slapping an easy mode into games that people tend to gloss over.
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Apr 13, 2021 12:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2DOmc0tTZ8&hd=1
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Apr 13, 2021 12:46
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if i play easy mode in a game and really like it I'm more likely to ramp up difficulty and play again later than I am to keep playing a normal+ mode that's frustrating me, even with my limited adult time that said I don't give up easily especially when I have short iteration time to keep trying.
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Apr 13, 2021 12:48
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Macaluso posted:I don't mind the BJ thing just becasue it's a reference to the old games. I feel like the new Wolfenstein games otherwise try to be a bit more progressive (as progressive as that kind of game can get), so I'm willing to give them a pass on haha grizzled man look funny as baby. I wish Youngblood had been a better game (and it's not terrible you have a friend to play it with) given how shriekingly, bone-rattlingly mad it mad Certain People to play teenage girls.
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Apr 13, 2021 12:50
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CYBEReris posted:if i play easy mode in a game and really like it I'm more likely to ramp up difficulty and play again later than I am to keep playing a normal+ mode that's frustrating me, even with my limited adult time
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Apr 13, 2021 12:51
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in long running series sometimes normal difficulty is intended for new players, and sometimes it's intended for like, people who have been following the series for a while so a suitable challenge is built for them.
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Apr 13, 2021 12:51
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CYBEReris posted:in long running series sometimes normal difficulty is intended for new players, and sometimes it's intended for like, people who have been following the series for a while so a suitable challenge is built for them. I like the way Halo does it Easy - “Your foes cower and fall before your unstoppable onslaught, yet final victory will leave you wanting more.” Normal - “Hordes of aliens vie to destroy you, but nerves of steel and a quick trigger finger give you a solid chance to prevail.” Heroic - “Your enemies are as numerous as they are ferocious; their attacks are devastating. Survival is not guaranteed.” Legendary - “You face opponents who have never known defeat, who laugh in alien tongues at your efforts to survive. This is suicide.”
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Apr 13, 2021 12:54
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Nuebot posted:I like it when modders get really, really, bent out of shape about other people modding their mods. Or fanfiction authors getting super upset that someone else wrote fiction of their fan characters. Oh yeah, modder drama can be hilarious. Especially when they try bullshit lawsuits over it.
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Apr 13, 2021 13:04
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there was a sonic fangame that literally turned itself into a creepypasta nightmare with sonic corpses flying aroudn and poo poo if you googled cheats for it while it was open, or if it detected cheatengine running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_eGynZoL0c&t=67s
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Apr 13, 2021 13:30
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Difficulty modes or modifiers are important for accessibility reasons and not having them is just as bad as not having proper subtitles or colourblind settings.
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Apr 13, 2021 13:38
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The problem with using the Souls games as the baseline/example for why video games need easy modes, is that the Souls games aren't actually that difficult. At least not in the way video game culture has hyped itself up into believing. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 got their reputation for difficulty because at the time they were published, every AAA game was deep into player hand-holding, making players feel powerful, walking players through set-pieces, flashing commands on screen, telling players exactly where to go, etc. Those sorts of games could still be mechanically difficult, sometimes extremely so. What the Souls games did is strip all of that away and expect players to actually read environmental cues, explore for themselves, decide certain enemies are too tough to handle now, learn attack patterns, etc, which was a breath of fresh air at the time. Unfortunately the framing of 'difficulty' means you now get stupid poo poo like people trying to tackle the skeletons at the start of DS1 and deciding the game is bullshit hard, when the whole point of the skeletons being hard is to indicate to the player they should maybe come back later. Bloodborne and Sekiro are different, because Bloodborne relies on aggression and responding quickly, and Sekiro's sword clash mechanic demands good reaction speed.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:09
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Hungry posted:The problem with using the Souls games as the baseline/example for why video games need easy modes, is that the Souls games aren't actually that difficult. At least not in the way video game culture has hyped itself up into believing. I don't think souls games not being brutally difficult really changes the point at all
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Apr 13, 2021 14:13
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Yeah I'm bad at video games and (obviously) love FromSoft's stuff. I think they're the best in the biz mostly because of what Hungry laid out (the other reason being the way they use the medium for narrative). I personally don't use summons but I enjoy being summoned to help someone out and that there is such an option for people who get stuck.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:23
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Queer Salutations posted:Difficulty modes or modifiers are important for accessibility reasons and not having them is just as bad as not having proper subtitles or colourblind settings. no
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Apr 13, 2021 14:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tPJDZv_VE I like Mark Brown's solution to this. Have difficulty settings but hide them away and warn people that they aren't getting the intended experience that way.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:32
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