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Questions. 1) On the 'Crown Gold' map, tourists are supposed to be going to the beaches. I've yet to see one go there. Do I need to unlock a specific casino item that allows them to hit the beaches or is it broken? 2) How long through the game do you unlock the 2nd tier of science minions? The 3rd? Maybe I'm doing too many side stories but this is dragging on and I can't build in 2/3rds of the base because I still have yet to unlock digging through tougher rock. 3) When do saboteurs/rogues show up? So far I've only ever seen the time saboteurs and that's it. Really disappointed that I'm dealing with investigators 95% of the time and soldiers the other 5%.
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Apr 11, 2021 21:22
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Mikedawson posted:Is there a limit to how many henchmen I can have? I assume 5 based on the bar. Yep. To collect them all for the achievement “some betrayal is required”. Gotta execute some to open up space.
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Apr 11, 2021 21:31
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khy posted:Questions. 2) You unlock them through the main story, the timing of which seems to depend on which genius you chose 3) I didn't really get any rogues until I had advanced along the main story a bit. Heat may play a factor too, I'm not sure though
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Apr 11, 2021 21:59
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Danaru posted:Are you untagging them when they escape or distract tagging them? The only thing I can think of is there being some kind of safeguard to keep an agent from hitting 0 resolve too deep into your base. TL:DR: Manual distract still wasn't working, until suddenly it was. (Also auto-distract tags around a prison and adjacent hall are ignored, unless you manually unflag them first  )Preemptive update edit: After countless failures with manual distract flagging, suddenly manual "pause, power off, flag for distract before they leave the cell" started working for every minion once a passing construction worker pulled it off. Auto-tags on prison+hallway tiles still do not seem to work on prison breaks however. Initial testing: I didn't look into distract tagging a prisoner because there didn't seem to be any way to swap it on someone surrendering? (Also I forgot auto-tags existed  ) If an agent is slammed by a trap combo that left them beaten enough to instant surrender (like magnet + freeze ray), they would be locked into capture status. It was one of the few things I did that could make an agent behave themselves and stay at zero resolve without taking a photo... But the capture tag was greyed out, I could not turn off capture status, and my only choice is to let them be eventually escorted back into their cell. They were in the perfect gently caress all skill no resolve status to be easily lead by the nose out to the casino then go home after a breakout, the game just would not let me  Only changing to the kill tag is an option.Anyways. just to make sure, I put a bit more effort into prison distraction just now... Hoo boy. Manual Distract tags in a prison make your minions act like traitors? (Until suddenly it started working at the last second), and auto-tag distract is ignored entirely in favor of capture logic no takebacks. With manual release and distract tag, or pausing on prison breaks to flag them for distract. Free standing guard just happened to wander into the prison and is staring right at the cell? They just watched them turn around to take a photo. A row of advanced guard posts installed also just sat there and watched it happen. So eventually some kind soul will escort them to safety past your entrance trap maze and release them into the casino full of evidence. Good job team. Auto-tag distract on the hallway only, prison only, or a combination of both always resulted in it being treated as "Now it is capture time, no takebacks, no changing tags" for breakouts. With or without traps involved. Though on the bright side, the array of posted guards (arranged in a way that two guards could see any given cell and were standing safely BETWEEN magnets) were very on point for bum rushing agents to shove them back into their cell. A+ would hire a collection of idiots to stare at prison cells again. "And now suddenly it works" results right before posting: A passing construction worker pulled it off  Trying one last time on the power down and manual distract tagging before they leave the cell before posting. By pure coincidence a construction worker was loitering in front of the cell, and decided "Hey. How about we ACTUALLY distract them?" And now, after all of the above failures where manually flagging them as distract, in this very same setup at the moment. It always works and the muscle minions distract them back to the casino. (Why do they all disguise themselves as construction workers while on the beach on the way back to the speed boat?) The speedboat didn't leave though, I guess because there were still more fresh agents snooping around in the base. I was about to write it off as a failure again, but now it looks like the option is there (if the minion AI isn't making GBS threads itself?) ...And also auto-tag zones distract works very specifically if you remove their tags. But at that point you might as well manually tag then as distract. Also also the revenge. Removing auto tags, removing tags, and releasing a prisoner. My guards rushing over to re-capture another breakout stopped to shoot the agent I had released and designated to be ignored to death while he was an ice cube. So yeah. Minion AI when dealing with prisoners, not the most consistent thing in the world turns out. Elaborate resolve draining trap setups bad. A couple of guys on guard duty with some freeze rays good. Section Z fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 22:48
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i'm so loving sick of how long everything in this takes, I've played loving idle games that move faster than this
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Apr 11, 2021 23:31
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Yeah, i'm eagerly awaiting the "4x everything" speed mod.
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Apr 11, 2021 23:36
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I just saw a sandbox mode level 4 investigator with zero skill and still dripping from the freeze ray cube thawing disarm traps  Never, ever, EVER use boxing gloves I guess. Holy poo poo. Also confirmed that prisoners don't lose their guns, getting their disguise busted had them pull out their pistols and reduce a hitman down to 48 health (with late tier 100 health options) before getting caught. So a few token guards posts at the end of a prison zone just gives escaped prisoners time to remember "Oh right, I have GUNS" compared to putting them within arms reach of a prison cell. Section Z fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 01:48
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Grapplejack posted:i'm so loving sick of how long everything in this takes, I've played loving idle games that move faster than this I mean, based on how stupidly long schemes are, it almost feels like an earlier iteration of the game was precisely that in nature. Idle/f2p time scapes. The game is fun but oh so flawed. Just like the first one. I'm hoping patches and mods fixes the irritants.
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Apr 12, 2021 03:02
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dogstile posted:Yeah, i'm eagerly awaiting the "4x everything" speed mod. A plain "4x speed" mod would just make everything look like a hyperactive bee hive.
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Apr 12, 2021 05:31
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They just need to fix the side-objectives so that some of them don't take multiple steps and also the ability to pursue them at the same time.
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Apr 12, 2021 05:56
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i think the main story objectives are pretty good. there are a few small choke points, but mostly you are doing multiple things simultaneously.
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Apr 12, 2021 06:27
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Wipfmetz posted:I'd prefer an actual rebelancing of research and scheme times, and removal of some timewasters like that dualism of "there's a potentially huge delay between you ordering a scheme and that scheme actually starting" and "schemes will be canceled due to lockdowns". Looking forward to the eventual mod that turns workers into actual bees/wasps/insects.
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Apr 12, 2021 06:54
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Bloodly posted:Looking forward to the eventual mod that turns workers into actual bees/wasps/insects.
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Apr 12, 2021 07:10
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Bloodly posted:Looking forward to the eventual mod that turns workers into actual bees/wasps/insects. A Venture Brothers mod would be really cool
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Apr 12, 2021 07:11
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The loot items that double as traps are really bad. Investigators can get suspicion off of them, and thieves can steal them. The fires of prometheus are the worst, because even if you stash it somewhere quiet, any deserting minion will set it off and suddenly you have fires. I will remember to never place these in future games 
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Apr 12, 2021 08:22
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Wipfmetz posted:Can't wait to have my worker bees training to be muscle wasps. Muscle wasps, deception butterflies, ???? technicians/scientists....
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Apr 12, 2021 13:01
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Comte de Saint-Germain posted:The loot items that double as traps are really bad. Investigators can get suspicion off of them, and thieves can steal them. The fires of prometheus are the worst, because even if you stash it somewhere quiet, any deserting minion will set it off and suddenly you have fires. I will remember to never place these in future games no one gets suspicious of the bees, though they can still be stolen. but then, that one is only better than normal bee traps in that it doesn't require maintenance.
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Apr 12, 2021 13:29
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Bloodly posted:Muscle wasps, deception butterflies, ???? technicians/scientists.... Formula handling formicidae. Formulants. Wipfmetz fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 13:42
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Comte de Saint-Germain posted:[trap loot] Cupid's bow didn't seem to generate heat, and it was never stolen because it lived in the middle of a giant snake of other traps I stopped keeping any kind of loot in the vaults pretty quick though
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Apr 12, 2021 20:32
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Feel free too laugh at me for being the worlds biggest dum dum, but, what do heat, suspicion and lockdowns do? I'm asking because I thought it would be fun too turn off all my traps and distraction zones and just let investigators walk off with full suspicion thinking it would result in my base being raided, but nothing changed. I don't think them leaving increased Heat in their respective areas, at least I didn't see it go up. And having high Heat didn't result in different type of agents showing up, they seemed to send higher level investigators, but soldiers almost never raided my lair and I've never seen saboteurs and rogues show up on their own, they only come with super agents. I also let large chunks of the map go into lockdown and despite I.R.I.S warning me about "Tougher Agents" they never showed up. In fact lockdowns seemed to be a quick and cheap way to reduce that regions heat down too zero. There honestly seemed to be no difference at all, if I chased away all the investigators and mitigated heat I would only ever get a wave of investigators every few minutes with the very rare soldier raid, and if I ignored all these mechanics I would only ever get a wave of investigators every few minutes with the very rare soldier raid. So please, using tiny words, explain what the Heat, Suspicion and Lockdown mechanics actually do in regards to how the F.O.J react.
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Apr 13, 2021 04:49
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If anyone is considering the game I'd honestly suggest giving it like, 2-3 months or so. There are a bunch of bugs and issues and poo poo that need ironed out, largely QA issues.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:06
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Grapplejack posted:If anyone is considering the game I'd honestly suggest giving it like, 2-3 months or so. There are a bunch of bugs and issues and poo poo that need ironed out, largely QA issues. And then some. Played the original and was looking forward but apparently this game is built like a F2P game. Reading more it looks like there are lots of weird timers, arbitrary fillers, and balance issues reminiscent of a cell phone freemium game. I mean, really, there's even a bunch of random "do 10 [random activity] and collect a reward!" things that come and go. It's like the game really wants to sell people microtransactions, without actually having them. Ain't nobody got time for that.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:28
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Woodstock posted:And then some. Played the original and was looking forward but apparently this game is built like a F2P game. Reading more it looks like there are lots of weird timers, arbitrary fillers, and balance issues reminiscent of a cell phone freemium game. I mean, really, there's even a bunch of random "do 10 [random activity] and collect a reward!" things that come and go. It's like the game really wants to sell people microtransactions, without actually having them. Ain't nobody got time for that. I think maybe at some point during development they were actually looking down the barrel of something like this, the paywall trap kind've makes glib reference to an idea along those lines.
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Apr 13, 2021 06:19
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to me the game doesn't really play like an F2P friction hellscape with the IAP removed, it just has some dumb pacing that needs to get fixed.
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Apr 13, 2021 06:30
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It plays a little more like one of its main game designers has only made f2p games before and this is their first attempt at a real game.
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Apr 13, 2021 07:04
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Jack Trades posted:It plays a little more like one of its main game designers has only made f2p games before and this is their first attempt at a real game. seems likely, considering there were two games in the franchise between the 2004 and 2021 PC releases the original game was developed by Elixir studios, whose only other game was the flawed but interesting Republic: The Revolution. neither of these titles sold very well and Elixir went bankrupt. Rebellion bought the Evil Genius IP and sat on it for four years before releasing Evil Genius: WMD for Facebook in 2010. Evil Genius Online was released for Android in 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WuDVt_oEMY Rebellion isn't the biggest studio around so i'm not sure what these projects were, perhaps just keeping the IP in use? EGO looks like it recycled a lot of assets from the original game, so maybe it was a quick cash grab?
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Apr 13, 2021 07:22
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Quick Google of the lead game designer on the game reveals that all of his previous experience was in developing browser and mobile games, so yeah, looks like my guess was totally correct.
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Apr 13, 2021 07:41
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I'm about 25 hours in, and while it was fun messing around with base design and traps at first, it seems many of the systems that appear to do something really don't do anything. This leads it to feeling like a pretty empty experience overall. Are you placing all the decorations down that slow stat drains from working minions? There's no point (at this time), because those don't do anything. Are you stressing about investigators with max suspicion escaping, thinking they will be reporting you to their superiors, and a squad of high level soldiers is coming next? Don't worry, because it makes no difference; them leaving with suspicion doesn't actually do anything. Maybe I'm misremembering this, but in EG1 an agent you captured that managed to escape would make a beeline for the front entrance, and him escaping would raise your heat considerably. In EG2, they never escape, they slowly walk out with their low stats and get captured again. In the first game, high heat was quite dangerous because the FoJ would keep throwing stronger soldiers, saboteurs and super agents at you if you didn't tamp it down. Even if your security was quite robust, having high heat for a length of time was quite a challenge to keep your operation going. In EG2, it doesn't really matter, there's no real threat from building up heat. It just locks you out from that region and makes you wait more. Remember in the first game saboteurs would randomly tunnel into your base and set explosives in your generator room? I was waiting for that to happen in this, but instead they just tip toe in from the entrance and don't really do anything. Remember in the first game when you first killed a super agent? It felt really satisfying because you would place them on fancy interrogation device that would finally end them once and for all. In EG2, you do a bunch of annoying separate world map missions, you "capture" them, and then interrogate them, and they just die pretty unceremoniously. Every mission involving your base is a variation of "interrogate this guy," or "kill these 5 intruders," or "research this tech"... so much of the game is in the world map, which the first game also did better. In EG1 it was set up like a board game and your minions were like pieces. If you sent the minimum required pieces, and there was already high heat or a SA watching, you'd likely lose your whole crew with nothing to show for it. In this, you lose them regardless, but there's no tension there from EG1 where you're hoping that last worker left will clutch the mission. EG2 is just throwing more of them into a meat grinder. I'm curious to see what the DLC will be. Probably some new traps, a new minion... but it just annoys me on the main menu is "buy the season pass!" when so much of this is inferior to the 1st game, and much of it doesn't actually work.
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Apr 13, 2021 08:15
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I really like most of the systemic changes to the game, like making minions the currency on the world map... and while it definitely has some pacing and balance issues, I think the game is pretty solid and most of the issues are pretty minor. And while I think it's missing a lot of the charm of the original, I think there's some seriously rose tinted glasses going on in here. The original was extremely buggy! The research system required you to wait for science minions to decide to research an item, and if you didn't check a wiki to know the right combos, you could spend the whole game without some key techs. You think this game has pacing issues? Well at least you don't have to build a second island from scratch while super agents slaughter your minions on the beach.
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Apr 13, 2021 08:45
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I do think that this game could be pretty good after it solves some balancing issues but those issues are pretty dire.
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Apr 13, 2021 08:53
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getting a new genius as dlc really doesn't sound very appealing since it will just be the exact same dialogue for 95% of the game.
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Apr 13, 2021 08:57
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Yeah, I can see where the mobile/browser game comparisons are coming from in that a lot of the new systems in the game are some form of progress bar management. But these systems are absolutely better than the ones they replaced in the first game. Juggling your heat levels on the world map is done pretty well, honestly, other than that heat itself is pretty weak. I'll be unlocking level 4 criminal networks soon and I still haven't seen anything more dangerous than standard investigators visit my island organically (ie not part of a side story or a super-agent visit). I haven't seen rogues or saboteurs at all. I don't know if it's the mechanics being tuned for having level 4 networks around (which would max out at 1000 heat for most agencies, but can at worst reach half that with the level 2s you mostly use) or if the more dangerous agents actually come from letting investigators leave with evidence, which has never happened on my island. The research system is flawed for sure, not being able to put a research on hold to handle a story study and it being a waste of power to have more than one kind of research device switched on at a time. But if it means that I can either target the unlocks my base needs, or see why I am not able to yet, then I'll take it.
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Apr 13, 2021 09:00
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:getting a new genius as dlc really doesn't sound very appealing since it will just be the exact same dialogue for 95% of the game. This is SO baffling to me. They're already having to record separate dialogue with each VO, WHY would you have them record the SAME dialogue? Are they THAT short on writer man-hours? EDIT: Skyrim did the same thing and it was just as baffling there.
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Apr 13, 2021 09:04
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i guess so they didn't have to record separate lines for the person the genius is talking to? but the geniuses have the best voice actors anyway, so it's very confusing.
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Apr 13, 2021 09:07
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Jack Trades posted:I do think that this game could be pretty good after it solves some balancing issues but those issues are pretty dire. I don't know about "dire". Game is too easy, yeah, but that's not super hard to change (if they want to, no externalities etc). The systems themselves are fine. Like, the way the game handles heat generation is fine, it just doesn't have much of an effect. World map UI could use a summary window of recently completed schemes, but the way it works is fine (imo superior to the original but it's just a matter of taste). The game does a good job of understanding that one of the appeals of a game like this is distraction mechanics, by which I mean that the game is always pulling your attention in a bunch of different directions. Which is a great foundation, but the problem is that once you hit a certain point in the game, you can pretty much ignore some of the primary distractions, like agents- in this regard I actually think that auto-tagging zones really hurts the game. Comte de Saint-Germain fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 09:14
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Tenebrais posted:... But these systems are absolutely better than the ones they replaced in the first game. The thing is though besides the auto-tagging, heat, and world map minions don't return... what systems from the 1st game does this actually replace? Furthermore, what I'm saying is these aren't actually complete systems that feed back into the gameplay loop like the 1st game used, they're just simulacrums of them. What you just said about never seeing saboteurs organically, that for me made the first game actually fun, instead of just a boring plod through the mid/late game. The first game had rewards vs. risk / consequences that increased the further you got. EG2 doesn't have that. Like is there ever danger of you reaching a fail state unless you tell your genius to stand in the middle of Symmetry's henchmen? I feel bad coming in here just to complain. I really liked the game at first. But the more I play it and notice these things, the more I feel kind of swindled by it.
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Apr 13, 2021 09:21
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bromplicated posted:The thing is though besides the auto-tagging, heat, and world map minions don't return... what systems from the 1st game does this actually replace? I'm referring to the management of minions on the world map - in particular the gameplay around having half your base out on the map, and having to dance them around the roaming super-agents and manage whether they're stealing/plotting/hiding. In the first game that was too much of an attention tax for a mechanic that isn't integrated into the core gameplay and it punished you by killing off minions that could be very difficult to replace depending on what you sent out there. EG2 simplifies it into plate-spinning exercises - you don't manage minions on the world map directly, you just spend them to get money or lower heat (or hit story objectives). The main flaw in the world stage mechanic in EG2 isn't anything to do with the world stage itself, it's just that heat doesn't impact your island enough, which would be a simple thing to re-tune. The other main system I was talking about in being replaced was the research system, replacing the "sample random items, put them together and hope it does something" system with a more conventional choose-your-next-unlock one.
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Apr 13, 2021 09:34
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Woodstock posted:And then some. Played the original and was looking forward but apparently this game is built like a F2P game. Reading more it looks like there are lots of weird timers, arbitrary fillers, and balance issues reminiscent of a cell phone freemium game. I mean, really, there's even a bunch of random "do 10 [random activity] and collect a reward!" things that come and go. It's like the game really wants to sell people microtransactions, without actually having them. Ain't nobody got time for that. I haven't bought it yet but looking at the trailers reminded me *a lot* of two point hospital, and that there'd be heaps of grindy stuff. Seems I was right. Comte de Saint-Germain posted:I really like most of the systemic changes to the game, like making minions the currency on the world map... and while it definitely has some pacing and balance issues, I think the game is pretty solid and most of the issues are pretty minor. the scientists would only do research if they weren't training anyone, so you were hosed for a long time if you lost a biologist or a quantum physicist to world map activity or a red ivan accident or the sly marbo wannabe or even jet li deciding to super-kick them out of existence. There was a reason maxmilian was OP and it wasn't just starting with jubei
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Apr 13, 2021 09:44
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bromplicated posted:The thing is though besides the auto-tagging, heat, and world map minions don't return... what systems from the 1st game does this actually replace? i think this is not the issue. The issue is more of that there is nothing dangerous in the game, after you get out of hard early game, You have more than enough minions to bruteforce any super agent you encounter even symmetry and her mob. you have gazillion traps in your base since power room can fill up the whole of basement level. The design of the game is fine(outside the worldmap that is awful), it needs more dangers that are actually dangerous for your base. Like that permanently creeping cloud of death that they fixed recently. Once again modding could fix this because if you could take more than 1 side mission at once the difficulty would ramp up. But thanks to denuvo there wont be modding for long time.
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Apr 13, 2021 10:20
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Denuvo doesn't really prevent most types of modding. It only applies anti-tampering to the exe itself, not to any of the game resources.
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Apr 13, 2021 10:23
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