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The Lord of Hats posted:This testimony feels like a slam dunk. Obviously there’s more to the case, but the medical aspect seems like a closed case. That last question/answer seemed devastating to the defense. I'm a little confused, did Nelson think that he would get a "it's theoretically possible" type answer from Dr. Rich? For those who didn't see it: Nelson: quote:But in terms of the combination. The, the drugs, every-, the high blood pressure. The..., take the paraganglioma out of it, right? The increase of adrenaline from uh, a struggle with officers. All of those things combined together, even in the absence of prone restraint, could have resulted in death. Yes or no, sir? Dr. Rich: quote:Upon my review of the evidence of the facts of the case, I found no evidence to support that. Nelson: quote:Fair enough, thank you. E: VVVV Not sure if you're talking about my post or currently. Currently, it's the spark of life testimony. I expanded my post anyways to give people more context on what I'm referring to. Kalit fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 18:51
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What is going on
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Apr 12, 2021 19:33
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Sjs00 posted:What is going on Not entirely sure of the prosecution's angle right now (sympathy?), but they've got George Floyd's younger brother on the stand. E: Seems like they're establishing Mr. Floyd's lifestyle as being active. Velocity Raptor fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 19:36
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I like this breakdown of ability opportunity and intent and appreciate how cops blow thru it and conclude gun very quickly loving acab
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Apr 12, 2021 20:17
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I'm not a lawyer, but isn't the defense of "they were frail, they were in poor health, there's no way to know this" not allowed because of the "eggshell skull rule"?
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Apr 12, 2021 20:20
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Solkanar512 posted:I'm not a lawyer, but isn't the defense of "they were frail, they were in poor health, there's no way to know this" not allowed because of the "eggshell skull rule"? Nothing actually matters for cops, the fact that anyone is plausibly in doubt of the outcome is evidence of that.
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Apr 12, 2021 20:41
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Solkanar512 posted:I'm not a lawyer, but isn't the defense of "they were frail, they were in poor health, there's no way to know this" not allowed because of the "eggshell skull rule"? That is apparently a civil court concept, but I saw a lawyer saying the concept will probably be ruled to apply in criminal cases if it is brought up.
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Apr 12, 2021 20:44
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I'm hesitant to pass judgement on the defense's performance since I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have a law background, and because I realize that this is probably a tough case to defend, but can any law goons speak to whether Nelson is doing a good job? It seems quite a few of his questions (with this witness, at least) have been answered to the contrary of the point the defense was making.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:55
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Velocity Raptor posted:I'm hesitant to pass judgement on the defense's performance since I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have a law background, and because I realize that this is probably a tough case to defend, but can any law goons speak to whether Nelson is doing a good job? It seems quite a few of his questions (with this witness, at least) have been answered to the contrary of the point the defense was making. I think Nelson has an extremely poor case to argue and very few avenues to work with. I also think that he has proven somewhat unprepared to work with those avenues. It may be unfamiliarity with NOT having the thin blue line lined up to defend their client. It's unfamiliar territory for most.
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Apr 13, 2021 01:00
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Kavros posted:I think Nelson has an extremely poor case to argue and very few avenues to work with. i think part of it is this is pretty black and white case, fucker murdered floyd and everyone in the world saw it and part of it is like you said, the cops not defending this guy to the death(in the courtroom).
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Apr 13, 2021 02:45
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Yeah a lot of interactions that make me react as if I'd just watched someone get physically bodied are mostly pertaining to Nelson attempting an introduction of doubt, which immediately gets thrown in his face by the assurance of police protocol, the unambiguous nature of the video and forensic evidence provided, or expert medical conclusion. For weeks, an unbroken string of something along the lines of quote:Expert: as a person who went to Recognizing Murder School with a cross doctorate in knowing-how-lungs-work-or-do-not from the medical university of breathing science, I can categorically state that this murdering of the murder victim was via not letting the lungs work, which is ipso facto fatal QED quad erat nobreathingum. It was a fatal case of preventing normal lungage, whereupon the victim died of insufficient lungification of the oxygen, by Derek Chauvin, who did the murdering.
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Apr 13, 2021 03:01
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Kavros posted:Nelson attempting an introduction of doubt, The thing is we're all expecting Chauvin to still get acquitted somehow regardless of the evidence, aren't we?
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Apr 13, 2021 06:22
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Rust Martialis posted:The thing is we're all expecting Chauvin to still get acquitted somehow regardless of the evidence, aren't we? I don't think we're expecting it, but we all think that it's at least plausible that it could happen. WRT the defence, the best description of a defense attorney I've heard is that it doesn't matter if you're innocent, their job is to ensure that the prosecution can prove that you're guilty. There's only so much you can do as a defence attorney when not only is your defendant 100% guilty but even the cops are abandoning him.
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Apr 13, 2021 06:40
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Rust Martialis posted:The thing is we're all expecting Chauvin to still get acquitted somehow regardless of the evidence, aren't we? At this point, no, I am assuming he will get convicted. Probably of the lesser charges (2nd degree manslaughter, iirc?) But not the main one, and his sentencing will be lenient as gently caress.
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Apr 13, 2021 06:42
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Ravenfood posted:At this point, no, I am assuming he will get convicted. Probably of the lesser charges (2nd degree manslaughter, iirc?) But not the main one, and his sentencing will be lenient as gently caress. If he does actually get convicted, given just how heavy the bus he was pushed under is I wouldn't be surprised by a relatively harsh sentence too, just so that the city can wipe their hands and proclaim that police brutality is solved once and for all by this example.
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Apr 13, 2021 06:47
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Rust Martialis posted:The thing is we're all expecting Chauvin to still get acquitted somehow regardless of the evidence, aren't we? But you can still judge whether a lawyer is good or not, regardless of whether the jury convicts or not. A lawyer can do a great job and still lose a case or a terrible job and still win it depending on the case and the jury.
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Apr 13, 2021 11:07
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Rust Martialis posted:The thing is we're all expecting Chauvin to still get acquitted somehow regardless of the evidence, aren't we? I was. I would no longer bet on it if I were forced to put down money and had to maybe not lose it. I no longer think actual acquittal is very likely and the most Chauvin can hope for is a holdout blue lives type being deranged enough to hang the jury and force the trial to be repeated. Absent that, this has been an extraordinarily damning and consistent affair.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:30
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I really burned myself out on this trial by watching livestreams. I would not want to be on the jury, listening to hours and hours of medical talk, necessary as it was. I do think the prosecution proved the case very well.
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Apr 13, 2021 16:06
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beejay posted:I really burned myself out on this trial by watching livestreams. I feel bad for the jury. I do think the prosecution proved the case very well. Yea, I'm curious on what the defense witnesses will be like. It seems hard to be able to unravel the case that the prosecution built. From the direct examinations of these first two defense witnesses, it seems like Nelson is just trying to build doubt by vague descriptions and letting things linger. Although I know they were very limited in what they could talk about relating to Mr. Floyd's police interaction from 2019. If it continues this way, I cannot imagine the jury will allow that doubt to creep in. Although I am not a lawyer, so for me 
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Apr 13, 2021 16:10
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Charlz Guybon posted:But you can still judge whether a lawyer is good or not, regardless of whether the jury convicts or not. Nelson appears competent but not particularly well-prepared or shrewd. His client just has no avenues of defense, which tends to make a defense attorney look like a butthead.
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Apr 13, 2021 16:14
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Volmarias posted:If he does actually get convicted, given just how heavy the bus he was pushed under is I wouldn't be surprised by a relatively harsh sentence too, just so that the city can wipe their hands and proclaim that police brutality is solved once and for all by this example. Actually they will probably give him a lenient sentence and still declare police brutality is solved once and for all.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:36
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the defense has some "expert" talking about how everything thing fuckface did was justified and how clearly floyd was violently resisting arrest.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:51
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The defense lawyer looks like Tony Schiavone. I just figured it out after like a week.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:01
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Dapper_Swindler posted:the defense has some "expert" talking about how everything thing fuckface did was justified and how clearly floyd was violently resisting arrest. CNN made the excellent point that the easy way to destroy his credibility would be to play the entire 9 minutes and 29 seconds tape, bringing attention to when George Floyd was motionless for 3 minutes, and then ask him if he would show to the recruits in the academy he teaches, if that was appropriate. He would either say no and undermine his entire defense, or yes and completely destroy his credibility with the jury.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:07
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Sky Shadowing posted:CNN made the excellent point that the easy way to destroy his credibility would be to play the entire 9 minutes and 29 seconds tape, bringing attention to when George Floyd was motionless for 3 minutes, and then ask him if he would show to the recruits in the academy he teaches, if that was appropriate. Yeah that was a pretty devastating argument.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:11
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mdemone posted:Nelson appears competent but not particularly well-prepared or shrewd. His client just has no avenues of defense, which tends to make a defense attorney look like a butthead.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:53
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Froghammer posted:This seems the most likely. Chauvin plead not guilty thinking that the establishment would have his back, it doesn't, and now Nelson is forced to make all these meal mouthed well-technically-he-might-have-sort-of-could-have-maybe arguments hoping that one of them will stick He tried to plea guilty to third-degree murder. But it had to be approved by the Justice Department because he wanted a guarantee he wouldn't be prosecuted by the Feds either. Bill Barr rejected it because it was still early and who knows what else would have cropped up.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:38
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Yeah the Lawyer is trying his best, but uh... he has nothing to work with.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:04
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https://www.insider.com/derek-chauvin-trial-minneapolis-police-officer-quit-over-trial-reaction-2021-4quote:Ashley Collman
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Apr 14, 2021 05:17
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Rust Martialis posted:The thing is we're all expecting Chauvin to still get acquitted somehow regardless of the evidence, aren't we? Honestly? Yeah, I'm still expecting this to be the case. At most, he gets a slap on the wrist or some sort of way to weasel out of any actual consequence.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:36
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:https://www.insider.com/derek-chauvin-trial-minneapolis-police-officer-quit-over-trial-reaction-2021-4 They really are just crying that they can't kill people without consequence anymore.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They really are just crying that they can't kill people without consequence anymore. That's the vibe I got for sure.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:40
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quote:"If Minnesota had the death penalty and Chauvin got it, people in Minneapolis are still going to riot," the officer said. "They're still going to burn the city down." With how the police act it looks to me like Minnesota already has a death penalty, but only if you are a poc. Maybe if they looked into why the people are rioting people in charge will finally understand that there isn't an equal set of standards based on race, but then that would be admitting they are at fault.
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Apr 14, 2021 12:09
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So did the prosecutor get the nod from the police union to go ahead, or are they ending their career here?
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Apr 14, 2021 12:18
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The Lone Badger posted:So did the prosecutor get the nod from the police union to go ahead, or are they ending their career here? It's theater, jury will acquit regardless bc convicting is throwing your life away
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Apr 14, 2021 15:58
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The Lone Badger posted:So did the prosecutor get the nod from the police union to go ahead, or are they ending their career here? I mean, this is being managed at the state level, it’s not just some random local prosecutor. That being said, from a realpolitik perspective, I’m pretty sure the PD is just going to leave Chauvin out to dry.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:30
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SchnorkIes posted:It's theater, jury will acquit regardless bc convicting is throwing your life away There's a good question because honestly, even if they're throwing Chauvin to the wolves, horrible things are probably going to happen to the prosecution and/or jury anyway just to make clear this was a one time thing.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:39
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SchnorkIes posted:It's theater, jury will acquit regardless bc convicting is throwing your life away I would not be surprised if we see a hung jury or something but if you're going to post conspiracy theories it'd be nice for you to post some kind of proof.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:52
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:https://www.insider.com/derek-chauvin-trial-minneapolis-police-officer-quit-over-trial-reaction-2021-4 All of the things he complains about seem extremely good. gently caress that pig.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:07
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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The Lone Badger posted:So did the prosecutor get the nod from the police union to go ahead, or are they ending their career here? Nah, this is out of their league. The AG of MN is Keith Ellison, formerly the Congressional Rep from the district that Ilhan Omar is from now. He quit to run for state AG and he's personally overseeing this case. If the cops tried to push him too hard they'd have investigators up their rear end looking for evidence of witness intimidation and racketeering. Part of the reason that I'm not worried about the prosecution pulling any bullshit is that I don't think that Ellison would put up with it, and because I'm fairly certain that the governor also wants Chauvin breaking rocks in Oak Park Heights until he drops dead.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:21
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