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How are u posted:Biden has 10 accusers? Reade is the only one I've ever heard of. V Oh, maybe I was wrong. V
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Apr 12, 2021 16:30
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How are u posted:Biden has 10 accusers? Reade is the only one I've ever heard of. I think they're making a comparison with Cuomo. One accuser: smear her as a Russian asset, a bomb-throwing anarchist, a sexist BernieBro, etc Ten accusers: can't do that, punt it over to a committee, shrug and say it's in their hands now, make sure the committee doesn't recommend impeachment,  whaddaya gonna do we followed the rules and couldn't get it done so it's impossible! (What no we can't use our prerogative to draft and vote for impeachment, we already handed it over to a committee it's out of our hands!)
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Apr 12, 2021 16:30
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Oh got it. Yeah with 10 accusers there is really no denying Cuomo is a creep who has to go. There is always a pattern.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:33
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How are u posted:Biden has 10 accusers? Reade is the only one I've ever heard of. Reade is the only one who accuses Biden of outright sexual assault, but he has a well documented history of being inappropriate with women, on par with the Cuomo allegations, I'd say. All the Women Who Have Spoken Out Against Joe Biden Harris: 'I believe' Biden accusers quote:Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) said Tuesday that she believes women who say they felt uncomfortable after receiving unwanted touching from former Vice President Joe Biden. Note that the above story is from 2019, before Reade came forward.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:34
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah maybe, the New York Times printed that article attacking her character and smearing her with reports from her landlords and what the gently caress ever, but that was back during the primary, so maybe the character assassination was just business for them. Just to be clear, the ones that knowingly held their nose and voted for a rapist anyway after they decided they believed Tara Reade are even worse than the annoying shits that have a pathological need to lie to themselves and gaslight everyone else about things. John_A_Tallon fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 16:38
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Cuomo is the one with ten accusers, I'm just pointing out how the thought process handles one dismissible voice vs. enough that dismissing them all becomes too ridiculous although it's always interesting to see just where they draw that line
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Apr 12, 2021 16:53
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:although it's always interesting to see just where they draw that line n accusers is a controversy, but we need 2n+1 accusers and then Cuomo is done
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Apr 12, 2021 17:13
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VitalSigns posted:n accusers is a controversy, but we need 2n+1 accusers and then Cuomo is done John_A_Tallon posted:Just to be clear, the ones that knowingly held their nose and voted for a rapist anyway after they decided they believed Tara Reade are even worse than the annoying shits that have a pathological need to lie to themselves and gaslight everyone else about things. I think this is the only thing you've posted in this thread that I disagree with you on. The former are odious cowards who knowingly voted for a rapist because they were scared Trump was going to send the proud boys to their house or whatever but at least they acknowledge Biden is a rapist and that rape is a bad thing but they were too
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Apr 12, 2021 17:15
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Folks may disagree, but it is clear to me that democracy itself was on the line in the 2020 election, and I think Trump and the Republicans' actions in the lame-duck period that culminated in an actual literal violent coup attempt bear that out. I couldn't ever hold a 2020 vote for Biden against anybody.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:25
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Hilbert's paradox of the Democrat rapist We may be placing similar value on how malignant and awful the latter are. I weigh the former more harshly than most people would because I believe that cowardice allows malignancy to fester.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:28
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That's fair
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Apr 12, 2021 17:33
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John_A_Tallon posted:We may be placing similar value on how malignant and awful the latter are. I weigh the former more harshly than most people would because I believe that cowardice allows malignancy to fester. "All it takes for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing" but phrased a bit differently, and seems like the crux at many of the criticisms levied at the Democratic party about this subject!
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Apr 12, 2021 17:34
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John_A_Tallon posted:Just to be clear, the ones that knowingly hold their nose and voted for a rapist anyway after they decided they believed Tara Reade are even worse than the annoying shits that have a pathological need to lie to themselves and gaslight everyone else about things. Maybe. Full disclosure: I did that. I had to wrestle with my conscience over that and for a while I was pretty sure I would vote Green because it's not like my one vote even matters. But as the polling tightened and Trump was openly telling Nazis who want me dead to "stand by" I lost my nerve and voted for him even though I 100% believe he did it. Maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way, but it seems to me that the issue isn't individual votes, it's these systems which protect powerful men from consequences and even manage democracy to ensure we only have the choice of which representative of the ruling class gets to run the country. Huge systems from the corporate media to the political parties had already decided that powerful men are allowed to rape, that they would put two rapists on the ballot and make us choose, and that not voting for either still means one of them wins anyway. I can't opt out of that system because whoever is president has power over me whether I vote for them or not, so I find ordinary people's individual votes within a system rigged for a rapist to win anyway a lot less frustrating than individuals who go out of their way to support and defend the system, because they help lend legitimacy to the systems that turn around and protect rapists. Like, we couldn't hold rapists accountable last November because one of them was going to win that's bad. But how insane is it that we also couldn't hold Biden accountable in the primary when a non-rapist could have won. And we also can't hold him accountable now when there's a Democratic VP who can take over without letting a republican win. And we can't hold Cuomo accountable when there's a Democratic Lt Gov who can take over, etc. We can't hold Bill Clinton accountable and he hasn't been in office for 20 years, one prominent Democrat even tried, ever, to hold him accountable by being like "hm maybe we should rethink our association with this guy and how we defended him from his accusers" and she became persona non grata immediately and the party crowded her out and pushed every moderate woman Democrat primary candidate except for Gillibrand
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Apr 12, 2021 17:41
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How are u posted:Folks may disagree, but it is clear to me that democracy itself was on the line in the 2020 election, and I think Trump and the Republicans' actions in the lame-duck period that culminated in an actual literal violent coup attempt bear that out. I couldn't ever hold a 2020 vote for Biden against anybody. Every election I can remember has been "the most important election of our lives." You can certainly make a case that this was actually true in 2020, but do you imagine that it won't also be true in 2024 and beyond? Do you think the GOP nominee will be less of a fascist than Trump (assuming it's not just Trump again)? I can understand this rationale, but it can easily be used to paper over any and all Dem failings because they'll always be facing off against a Republican. To be clear, I blame Biden primary voters and the DNC apparatus a lot more than Biden GE voters, but I do think they have a responsibility to reckon with their choice now that the dust has settled.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:49
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Lester Shy posted:To be clear, I blame Biden primary voters and the DNC apparatus a lot more than Biden GE voters, but I do think they have a responsibility to reckon with their choice now that the dust has settled. Considering the polling from 2020 showed that, at the time, 55% of Democrats thought the accusation was not credible to begin with (only 20% reported that they did believe it was credible), I doubt there's going to be much in the way of reckoning.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:56
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How are u posted:Considering the polling from 2020 showed that, at the time, 55% of Democrats thought the accusation was not credible to begin with (only 20% reported that they did believe it was credible), I doubt there's going to be much in the way of reckoning. I mean yea that's the problem right, women who accuse powerful men are dismissed as "nuts and sluts" pretty much reflexively. Unless it's politically convenient for one side to believe her (Dr Ford's case), they won't. You either need a photo of him doing it (Franken), or so many accusers it's impossible to disbelieve them all (Cuomo) and the jury's still out on whether the latter is actually enough. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 18:10
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:This really is it, and why we were treated to pages of "well technically"s and "sure it was inappropriate, but"s: some people understand politics to primarily be the actions undertaken by a government or within a government. Politics is the thing Joe Biden does when he signs an EO or congress passes a bill and everything down the chain: advocates, lobbyists, procedural processes, etc. etc. The only real meaningful interaction any "regular" person can have with this realm is their vote. It's so important because it actually means something and does something, even if it's a small thing, and because of that some part of the actions and responsibilities of the people or parties you vote for is invested in you. They are there because of you, after all. This post is a masterpiece, and explains so much about liberals, even beyond the issue waving away sexual assault, because it's extremely applicable to other wave-aways.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:59
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Lester Shy posted:Every election I can remember has been "the most important election of our lives." You can certainly make a case that this was actually true in 2020, but do you imagine that it won't also be true in 2024 and beyond? Do you think the GOP nominee will be less of a fascist than Trump (assuming it's not just Trump again)? I can understand this rationale, but it can easily be used to paper over any and all Dem failings because they'll always be facing off against a Republican. Yeah. 
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Apr 12, 2021 23:02
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Willa Rogers posted:This post is a masterpiece, and explains so much about liberals, even beyond the issue waving away sexual assault, because it's extremely applicable to other wave-aways. Seriously. Absolute monster of a post
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Apr 12, 2021 23:12
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thank you both. I think it ultimately is the foundational and most pernicious piece of political fiction both sides tell themselves: the other side is clearly evil, so we must be the good ones. Liberals get some credit for recognizing what is blindingly obvious: that the GOP are, in fact, the evilest party. Unfortunately that doesn't make the Democrats "good" anywhere outside of the minds of the people that need them to be good for their own self-image. I think due to how constrained our political horizons are and what we think "politics" is means you can't work your way out of that trap without some sort of external viewpoint, which is to say: class analysis. The work is cut out for us I guess.
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Apr 13, 2021 00:36
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there is of course a lot of vicious tara reade smears and hate post-election if you go outside verified accounts, which is the natural fallout of how liberal media chose to cover the tara reade story which absolutely included the russian disinformation angle
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Apr 13, 2021 01:06
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There are plenty of people whose primary contribution to this thread has been "oh wow reade likes putin isn't that weird makes you wonder not saying anything just saying wink wink" There is quite clearly a very strong current of thought that cannot abide the idea that their preferred set of rich rear end in a top hat politicians might do many of the same bad things as the other set of rich rear end in a top hat politicians. See also: we must be thankful that president biden is very humanely putting children in cages, unlike when the evil president trump does it. There is no real concern about the issues, not when it comes down to it, it is entirely about the people and the branding. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 15:02
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Please keep this thread on track to things like Tara Reade, the Cuomo accusations, the general state of the metoo movement, or even Gaetz's sex trafficking allegations or whatever else comes up Please do not do deep dives into what random twitter losers think. Please have your discussions about what twitter idiots think on twitter.
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Apr 13, 2021 17:17
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on a non IK note, I'm skeptical that there's anything particularly about liberals or whatever that is leading to people choosing to vote for someone accused of rape when literally both sides just had the highest turn out in american history while each running candidates accused of rape. Which is hella depressing to think about. I'm gonna go walk around in the woods with my dog.
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Apr 13, 2021 17:21
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Herstory Begins Now posted:on a non IK note, I'm skeptical that there's anything particularly about liberals or whatever that is leading to people choosing to vote for someone accused of rape when literally both sides just had the highest turn out in american history while each running candidates accused of rape. It was a choice of poo poo sandwiches. Handsy Joe versus Grab-em-by-the-Trump.
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Apr 13, 2021 17:47
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And not voting for either. Three choices
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Apr 13, 2021 17:49
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World Famous W posted:And not voting for either. Three choices Trump lost the election by ~40,000 votes across several states. I am enormously glad that more people didn't vote third party or opt out entirely.
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Apr 13, 2021 17:56
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Cool, maybe it won't be so worringly close if they don't run a rapist again
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Apr 13, 2021 18:02
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In the grim darkness of modern American politics, there are only rapists.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:09
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Vote for the seemingly less bad option, which takes a half hour of your time on one day every two or four years- then apply the huge remainder of your time to helping your community in what ways you can, when & where you can. Provide people a positive example, show them what the good values are, encourage them to be like you. Or: don't vote, but do all the other stuff.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:12
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Vote to be clear, just not for rapists. There is still poo poo down ballot that matters
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Apr 13, 2021 18:13
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Rust Martialis posted:It was a choice of poo poo sandwiches. Handsy Joe versus Grab-em-by-the-Trump. Reade's contention is that Biden literally grabbed her by the pussy. One man bragged about it; the other actually did it.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:56
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Willa Rogers posted:Reade's contention is that Biden literally grabbed her by the pussy. (To be clear, this doesn't make Biden's alleged behavior ok)
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Apr 13, 2021 18:57
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Willa Rogers posted:Reade's contention is that Biden literally grabbed her by the pussy. Are you saying that Trump's sexual assault accusers are lying?
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Apr 13, 2021 19:00
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It could count for something, especially if a true understanding and contrition to past actions came of it. Also trying to make right for your victim, however they decide (if they even decide to accept your attempts in the first place). However being trusted with a position of power afterwords is shaky at best and out of the question completely without said contrition and amends making
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Apr 13, 2021 19:03
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World Famous W posted:Vote to be clear, just not for rapists. There is still poo poo down ballot that matters Lots of down ballot candidates are still rapists, so I'm not sure what your point is....
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Apr 13, 2021 19:06
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If those down ballot candidates are rapist, don't vote for them. You ain't this stupid Also, in Alabama at least, we also include a lot of bills and amendments on our ballots that are dealt with at the same time
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Apr 13, 2021 19:09
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socialsecurity posted:Are you saying that Trump's sexual assault accusers are lying? No; I'm pointing out the absurdity of handwaving Reade's accusation as Biden being "handsy."
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Apr 13, 2021 19:16
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Mellow Seas posted:It seems that only one of them was in the business of stopping when asked, if that counts for anything. Oh no. Oh nonono
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Apr 13, 2021 20:21
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