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Schadenboner posted:Bequin questions ahead, read spoilers at own risk &c. &c.: quatorze means fourteen, as you know. and the emperor's children, to whom she is pledged, are the third legion. but children is plural, implying at least two children. so 3 + 3. which equals 6. and 6 + 14 equals 20. you know what that means. 
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Apr 13, 2021 16:13
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The Bequinmost of all possible Bequin snypes. E: But that also means no stinkibois in Book 3?  E2: Oh poo poo: Book 3! 
Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 16:32
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One of the little details I like about the Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin cycle is how incredibly  Greg is about how unbreakable and adaptive Glossia is and how every single adversary is all "Oh yeah, that was p.obvs to decode, sorry?"
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Apr 13, 2021 16:44
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This looks amazing https://www.amazon.com/dp/190722209X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_8GFEGZY5QPEDX3FD6AN7
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Apr 14, 2021 02:09
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Schadenboner posted:One of the little details I like about the Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin cycle is how incredibly I always took it to mean the core conceit was it's idiosyncratic - The 'code' is transparent, anyone can 'read' it, but individuals are encouraged to develop their own flair so that it becomes obvious when someone else is aiming to falsify it. In AAA terms it's got great Authentication, terrible Authorization. It's actually fine for secured, non-real time comms, and worthless for radios. Unfortunately, most of the time they use it in the books exactly the other way around.
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Apr 14, 2021 03:52
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It's pretty much just a low-effort substitution cipher, and thanks to how it's written with Abnett kind of intending the reader to be able to work out what the gist of it is that leaves us looking at it and going "this is terrible". It's probably piss easy to construct a fake message, but the 2FA function of it is doing that and using the right voice over the radio. Still pretty weak 2FA, given that voices are fakeable etc.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:04
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Eisenhorn being smug about his poo poo being unbreakable and incorruptible when in reality it's nothing of the sort is pretty on point though.
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Apr 14, 2021 08:57
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D-Pad posted:This looks amazing Ooo yeah I'm definitely keeping an eye on this
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Apr 14, 2021 13:37
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Same, found it Book Depository so I'll just wishlist it there for later.
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Apr 14, 2021 14:37
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Facehammer posted:Eisenhorn being smug about his poo poo being unbreakable and incorruptible when in reality it's nothing of the sort is pretty on point though. Arquinsiel posted:It's pretty much just a low-effort substitution cipher, and thanks to how it's written with Abnett kind of intending the reader to be able to work out what the gist of it is that leaves us looking at it and going "this is terrible". It's probably piss easy to construct a fake message, but the 2FA function of it is doing that and using the right voice over the radio. Still pretty weak 2FA, given that voices are fakeable etc. IMO you could probably fix it by making the broad gist readily accessible, but add more specific examples as to how very specific and way less obvious nuances get added. Abnett vaguely alludes to these, but you never get a real sense of what they are, so it rings hollow. I think the only example he gives is something about a thimble that Ravenor makes up on the fly (?). In any case, though form and syntax supposedly matter, the actual examples/explanations are always on the level of content rather than form, so it's always comes across as vague, imprecise language, plus a few more entrenched, recurring symbols whose referents are still pretty obvious ("Aegis"). I think you could make it seem a bit more of a code and less like just... "being vague" if you gave actual examples of the rules relevant to the form or syntax that are supposedly what makes the code so great. If you just refer to a church as "the worshipful place" (an actual, terrible example from Hereticus) that's obvious and kinda dumb. But if you imply that, I dunno, the use of an adjective before a noun ("worshipful") vs an adjective-prepositional phrase ("place of worship") makes some kind of subtle difference in the meaning, then I could buy "Okay sure there's more to this than a painfully obvious way to avoid saying 'the church'." The thing about glossia that's weird is that Abnett actually seems to like language and the play of meaning. It comes up again and again in his books. So while it's tempting to be like "and now we've put more thought into it than Abnett ever has" I'm tempted to say that's... not actually true. He loves this stuff. That's why glossia sticks out.
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Apr 14, 2021 15:03
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Oh yeah, totally. When you see him talking about Kingdom for 2000AD it's clear that he thinks a lot about what the language a character uses says about them and the culture that created them.
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Apr 14, 2021 15:51
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I didn't really have trouble suspending disbelief for Glossia and accepting the meaning it's intended for: it is presented in a way to invoke code language but I still need to be able to read it. Like if I can accept the way orcs talk this doesn't seem like a huge deal to me.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:33
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Arquinsiel posted:It's pretty much just a low-effort substitution cipher, and thanks to how it's written with Abnett kind of intending the reader to be able to work out what the gist of it is that leaves us looking at it and going "this is terrible". It's probably piss easy to construct a fake message, but the 2FA function of it is doing that and using the right voice over the radio. Still pretty weak 2FA, given that voices are fakeable etc. Shockeh posted:I always took it to mean the core conceit was it's idiosyncratic - The 'code' is transparent, anyone can 'read' it, but individuals are encouraged to develop their own flair so that it becomes obvious when someone else is aiming to falsify it. In AAA terms it's got great Authentication, terrible Authorization. It's actually fine for secured, non-real time comms, and worthless for radios. Unfortunately, most of the time they use it in the books exactly the other way around. No one wants to end up with Cryptonomicon. loving seriously. I mostly just like making GBS threads on Eisenhorn, tbh?
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Apr 14, 2021 17:08
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So... I’ve been wondering which of the Primarch books are worth picking up for reading? Are there any that stand out in a positive/negative manner? Furthermore, I started reading HH during my final year at Uni, after being introduced to BL and 40K novels and reading Eisenhorn one summer. Stopped after the three first books when I was writing my master degree, and haven’t really picked up on my leisure reading until recently (too much reading at work as well as other fiction/non-fiction in my spare time). So I was also wondering; are there a definite list of HH books that one SHOULD read (incl. Short stories and the the like) if one want to do it, without reading the entire list?
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Apr 14, 2021 22:28
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I'm trying to collect 40k/HH hardbacks so if anybody has a bunch they would be willing to get rid of PM me.
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Apr 15, 2021 00:36
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GannerOne posted:So... Both the Angron and Leman Russ ones are quite good. (The one about his rivalry with the Lion, I’m not sure if he has a stand-alone also) Valdor, also pretty good.
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Apr 15, 2021 10:08
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GannerOne posted:So I was also wondering; are there a definite list of HH books that one SHOULD read (incl. Short stories and the the like) if one want to do it, without reading the entire list? I'm using this guide currently, but the consensus I usually see in this discussion is something like: - Horus Rising - False Gods - Galaxy in Flames - The Flight of the Eisenstein - Legion [this one is divisive; if you're in a pinch you could skip it but it's Dan Abnett and it's really good] - A Thousand Sons - Prospero Burns - The First Heretic - Know No Fear - Praetorian of Dorn - The Master of Mankind - Slaves to Darkness and then move on to the new Siege of Terra series
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Apr 15, 2021 13:40
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You definitely need to add Betrayer to that list. Which both forms an effective sub-trilogy within the series with The First Heretic and Know No Fear. And is an extremely good ADB book. Edit: Vengful Spirit's also pretty good, and has some interesting lore stuff.
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Apr 15, 2021 17:10
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No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:I'm using this guide currently, but the consensus I usually see in this discussion is something like: I’d add Fulgrim (which has important plot stuff and isn’t bad) and Betrayer (which is spectacular), as well as the Vengeful Spirit/Wolfspear arc. You can skip all the dark angels, white scars, and salamanders books unless you like those legions, as well as most/all of the short stories and the Unremembered Empire and its sequels. (Ironically, very forgettable)
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Apr 15, 2021 17:14
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GannerOne posted:So... Valdor: Good. Leman Russ: Good. Lion El'Jonson: Decent, not as good as the first two. Perturabo: Average to decent. Rboute Guilliman: Avoid. Ferrus Manus: not great, read only if you are an iron hands fan. Jaghatai Khan: good, read especially if you enjoyed Scars.
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Apr 15, 2021 17:28
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Angry Lobster posted:Valdor: Good. Valdor was great because I'm a complete nut for anthropology about normal* life in-universe and a fan of Thunder Warriors. *: 
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Apr 15, 2021 17:47
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Valdor was great because it’s one of the rare moments in newer lore where gw remembered that the imperium is actually awful and the emperor is not different than the tyrants before him the only difference is he won.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:06
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Zasze posted:Valdor was great because it’s one of the rare moments in newer lore where gw remembered that the imperium is actually awful and the emperor is not different than the tyrants before him the only difference is he won. Treason must fail because if it does not it ceases to be treason.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:21
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/15/there-are-a-whopping-26-warhammer-40000-ebooks-in-the-latest-humble-bundle/ Another Humble Bundle for 40k books. But they definitely front loaded the first tier with all the good stuff.
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Apr 15, 2021 19:39
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No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:I'm using this guide currently, but the consensus I usually see in this discussion is something like: I've been thinking about this question because my wife loved the Abnett inquisition books and wants to read HH, but isn't so invested in the setting that she can tolerate terrible prose. I struggle because some of the books (like Eisenstein) depict important events but are just really poorly written. I'd recommend without reservation everything but Eisenstein on the list above, subbing in Fulgrim instead, although when she gets to Slaves I'm going to sit her down and give her the three-minute capsule explanation of the events of Vengeful Spirit and Wolfsbane rather than making her read those. I'd also recommend Betrayer, obviously, Scars, Path of Heaven, and a selection of short stories: 1) Misbegotten is actually the thing I'd recommend people read first, before even Horus Rising. It's short, nasty, and sets the right tone. 2) After Desh'ea should be read before Betrayer and Know No Fear, maybe after Fulgrim. 3) Two Metaphysical Blades is cool and should be read after Master of Mankind. Blood Games around then, too; it's a good story and enjoyable but not mandatory. 4) The Last Church should be read early but it's not essential. It's just better than most of McNeill's writing. 5) The Abyssal Edge should be read right before A Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns 6) Savage Weapons and Little Horus are both good stories-- read Savage Weapons after The Abyssal Edge, Little Horus after Know No Fear. 7) Prince of Crows right after Savage Weapons. Lightning Tower around then, too. 8) Unmarked after Know No Fear, probably. Then Perpetual right after Praetorian of Dorn. that's my current tentative list. I'd also recommend Valdor because I am trying to set her up to love Penitent so she needs to know what a big deal Valdor is.
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Apr 15, 2021 19:43
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GannerOne posted:So I was also wondering; are there a definite list of HH books that one SHOULD read (incl. Short stories and the the like) if one want to do it, without reading the entire list? Read all of the books by Dan Abnett, Aaron Dembski-Bowden, and Christ Wraight, and on top of those read McNeill's A Thousand Sons. This includes the short stories if you can find them for a reasonable price. For the others just read Lexicanum summaries to get the general idea, they aren't worth the time and the expense. You'll see a lot of people saying that you need to read False Gods and Galaxy in Flames, but you really don't have to. They're terrible and you can skip them.
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Apr 15, 2021 20:02
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von Metternich posted:I’d add Fulgrim (which has important plot stuff and isn’t bad) and Betrayer (which is spectacular), as well as the Vengeful Spirit/Wolfspear arc. You can skip all the dark angels, white scars, and salamanders books unless you like those legions, as well as most/all of the short stories and the Unremembered Empire and its sequels. (Ironically, very forgettable) Oh yeah I totally forgot about Fulgrim, that definitely goes on the list. And I'll add Betrayer to my list! I just finished A Thousand Sons today...  it's heavy, and now I'm squarely on team Magnus-did-nothing-wrong. On to Prospero Burns!
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Apr 15, 2021 21:02
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Cooked Auto posted:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/15/there-are-a-whopping-26-warhammer-40000-ebooks-in-the-latest-humble-bundle/ ebook bundles have made my job so much more bearable
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Apr 15, 2021 21:17
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So the future of the setting almost has to be a new imperial civil war between the emperor-worshippers and the classic-crusade securalists right? Horus heresy became such a success they have to realize imperial civil war is their most marketable angle. They brought back guilliman who’s disgusted by the worship in the empire. He used to feud with dorn who oh has it happens sired a massively plot-important chapter of emperor-worshippers that have allegedly swelled their size beyond all legal limits. Dorn also a notably more pragmatic guy who would probably not emotionally care about the emperor-worship stuff if it had a tactical advantage. Secularist guilliman vs zealot dorn could easily be built where dorn owns terra and this time the outsider rebels are the good guys.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:13
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It's going to be Lorgar. He's been sitting in the eye of terror for ten thousand years writing the new testament and he going to nail it to the Eternity Gate.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:23
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The emperor is obviously a god and his fedora-tippery was as poorly chosen as it was hypocritical. Even if he was only a demigod c. 30k he’s very very obviously an actual full-blown one 10k years later. And Rowboat continues to show he’s the dumbest motherfucker on the loyalist side for continuing to rage against the machine in re: this.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:17
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My personal, extremely unlikely, prediction for the future metaplot is Cawl taking some Primaris, the Iron Hands and the Mordians and forming his own empire that pisses off both traditionalists and reformists of both the Imperium and Mechanicum. Maybe Ferrus Manus comes back with a necrodermis head thanks to Cawl too
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Apr 16, 2021 23:10
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Cawl legitimately believes that he is the chief conduit of the emperor-as-omnissiah. He's fanatically loyal and has been for 10000 years.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:21
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Apr 16, 2021 23:27
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wiegieman posted:Cawl legitimately believes that he is the chief conduit of the emperor-as-omnissiah. He's fanatically loyal and has been for 10000 years. Ah, but Cawl has his Great Work, which the Emperor said he must continue, even when Cawl thinks he has betrayed Him. Gonna be something bad I bet
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Apr 17, 2021 01:19
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Improbable Lobster posted:Ah, but Cawl has his Great Work, which the Emperor said he must continue, even when Cawl thinks he has betrayed Him. Is it really a betrayal when your god literally hides a vision of him speaking to you in the mind of your enemy so you'll find it? Besides, he'll only think he's betrayed the Emperor once.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:37
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I predict a civil war. My guess is the Lion waking up, finding out Bobby destroyed his legion and usurped control of the Imperium by lying about having the Emperor's blessing, worked with xenos, spending way too much time managing Ultramar, and being way too tolerant of the Imperial cult bullshit. He reforms his legion against Bobby's orders and is joined by all the Astartes that think they're being replaced with Primaris plus a significant part of the Mechanicus that feels Cawl has way too much influence there. A beaten down and desperate Ecclesiarchy will turn to their only savior, Lorgar, who may be good now, or not.
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Apr 17, 2021 04:28
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Schadenboner posted:The emperor is obviously a god and his fedora-tippery was as poorly chosen as it was hypocritical. Have you read DI: Plague War? The ending has Gman potentially coming around to the idea Ego-bot posted:I predict a civil war. I like the idea that Guilliman didn't actually talk to the emperor so much as encounter a being whose lost all sense of self and has been driven completely insane by 10k years of pain so he just decided he would have to take the wheel himself.
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Apr 17, 2021 04:59
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A setting detail I really liked from the new post-rift books is how Cawl's Mechanicus faction goes out of their way to make things sleek and presentable. They don't go in for bulky augmetics (unless they're like Cawl himself and are old as balls and have abandoned their failing bodies completely) and huge soot belching machines, everything is in the human form factor and hums along quietly. They want to look like they're living in the future, not its ruins.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:12
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Yo that Alpharius book is good! Mike Brooks is drat near top tier
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Apr 17, 2021 08:38
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