|
Vulture is and remains the best and most relatable villain in the modern MCU
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 12:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 14:19 |
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:Vulture is and remains the best and most relatable villain in the modern MCU Is there an MCU Classic to require that differentiation? Does it have a villain that is the equal of or better to the Vulture?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:16
|
|
|
tsob posted:Is there an MCU Classic to require that differentiation? Does it have a villain that is the equal of or better to the Vulture? Loki.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:34
|
|
|
Dr. Doom is probably the best classic Marvel Villain, the evil GOAT, but I’d hear out any case for Magneto as well. Unsure if anyone else really even comes close to those two in terms of spectacle and grandiosity, except for Galactus, but he’s just like really stupid and boring.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:36
|
|
|
Doom requires so much setup to actually work I can’t imagine them ever doing him well in the MCU. If he’s introduced and immediately made a villain in F4 it would suck.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:44
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:Dr. Doom is probably the best classic Marvel Villain, the evil GOAT, but I’d hear out any case for Magneto as well. Unsure if anyone else really even comes close to those two in terms of spectacle and grandiosity, except for Galactus, but he’s just like really stupid and boring. Norman Osborn is up there too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:45
|
|
|
The X-man cometh posted:Norman Osborn is up there too. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:47
|
|
|
Before Fox was bought by Disney they commissioned Noah Hawley to write a script for a Doctor Doom movie.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:51
|
|
|
What's the deal with the Green Goblin? Does he wear a mask? Does his face change color?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
live with fruit posted:What's the deal with the Green Goblin? Does he wear a mask? Does his face change color? It's just a mask.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 13:56
|
|
|
I love Gob but I don’t think he’s GOAT material because (and please nerds do correct me if I’m wrong) Magneto and Dr. Doom threatened the Earth like dozens of times, but Gob is just like Parker’s personal Joker style nemesis who trolls Manhattan and tries to ruin Peter’s personal life, which are the kinds of things that are too small ball for Magneto. Dr. Doom and Magneto are going to try to crash an asteroid into the moon, Gob is gonna try to crush Pete’s girlfriend under a collapsing clock tower. All that said, Goblin serves up what is possibly the most famous and impactful civilian death in Marvel, Gwen Stacy. One of the greatest stories in the history of comics, IMHO.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:03
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:I love Gob but I don’t think he’s GOAT material because (and please nerds do correct me if I’m wrong) Magneto and Dr. Doom threatened the Earth like dozens of times, but Gob is just like Parker’s personal Joker style nemesis who trolls Manhattan and tries to ruin Peter’s personal life, which are the kinds of things that are too small ball for Magneto. Dr. Doom and Magneto are going to try to crash an asteroid into the moon, Gob is gonna try to crush Pete’s girlfriend under a collapsing clock tower. As an MCU villain he would make for a great standin for Trump, trying to undo everything Tony has done to keep alien tech off the market while developing anti Skrull detectors that vaporizes the Skrull from existence when caught
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:10
|
|
|
Oasx posted:Before Fox was bought by Disney they commissioned Noah Hawley to write a script for a Doctor Doom movie. It's Dottie is Mephisto/Reed Richards is the engineer territory but there are theories out there that Zemo's line about neighboring countries absorbing what's left of Sokovia being a way of introducing Doom, with him scooping up all the leftover vibranium.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:12
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:I love Gob but I don’t think he’s GOAT material because (and please nerds do correct me if I’m wrong) Magneto and Dr. Doom threatened the Earth like dozens of times, but Gob is just like Parker’s personal Joker style nemesis who trolls Manhattan and tries to ruin Peter’s personal life, which are the kinds of things that are too small ball for Magneto. Dr. Doom and Magneto are going to try to crash an asteroid into the moon, Gob is gonna try to crush Pete’s girlfriend under a collapsing clock tower. You could make the case that all that just means that Gobbo is a more personal, and even relatable villain; by a twisted logic. He acts out of petty grievance and base human nature, rather than for lofty ideals or anything. I've never read a huge amount of his stuff though. Personally, I'm going to go against the grain and say "gently caress Dr. Doom". I'd be happy if he never got done well because a lot of writers and fans overblow the character from what I've seen. He's a completely detestable human being in some comics, who'll sell anyone and everything out for any scrap of victory, and in others he's a beneficent dictator who only doesn't take over the world because it'd be boring. Or even has taken over the world and just given up because "meh". He's like a pastiche of Reed and Tony combined, and some runs even put him on Strange's level as a magician as well as a scientist and inventor, he can scheme his way to take power from pretty much anyone and anything, including cosmic entities, has the skill and technology to beat every single hero combined with little to no effort (he's done it while sitting down in one of the Avenger's cartoons if I recall) and is Jesus incarnate if Jesus was just too good to want to rule over you. Only he also has the caveat that Doombots offer a cheap copout so any writer who doesn't like a previous thing can just point at it and go "nope, Doombot" to basically invalidate it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:16
|
|
|
Spider-man has several great villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Mysterio, Venom) but they're a lot like Batman villains in that they're mostly only good villains for Spider-man.They're all either very personal, or street level, or both. Dr. Doom's kind of unique in that he's basically a universal antagonist; it's easy to manufacture a reason why he might have a bone to pick with literally anyone, and his ego and powerset let him be scaled up and down to be an appropriate threat to pretty much anyone with powers between Spider-man and Galactus.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:18
|
|
|
gyrobot posted:As an MCU villain he would make for a great standin for Trump, trying to undo everything Tony has done to keep alien tech off the market while developing anti Skrull detectors that vaporizes the Skrull from existence when caught Really a lot of what they've done to Goblin is make Norman Lex Luthor achillesforever6 fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Apr 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:21
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:I love Gob but I don’t think he’s GOAT material because (and please nerds do correct me if I’m wrong) Magneto and Dr. Doom threatened the Earth like dozens of times, but Gob is just like Parker’s personal Joker style nemesis who trolls Manhattan and tries to ruin Peter’s personal life, which are the kinds of things that are too small ball for Magneto. Dr. Doom and Magneto are going to try to crash an asteroid into the moon, Gob is gonna try to crush Pete’s girlfriend under a collapsing clock tower. Gob is a bit Machiavellian. His run in Dark Reign is amazing and it plays both the I am rich and therefore better and smarter than you thing so well as well as Norman's psychosis. Also, I agree with the guy above me Dr. Doom is Batman for bad guys. He;s the best at everything now, smarter than anyone and even when he loses it doesn't count because reasons. Which is the most annoying part of Batman literature.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:38
|
|
|
When you beat the PS2 (PS3?) game as Spider-Man you could replay the entire game as the Green Goblin on the Sam Raimi goblin glider and I swear to god it was literally the coolest poo poo on Earth
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:44
|
|
|
I'd actually say he's worse than those badly written takes on Batman, because Dr. Doom outright has conquered the world multiple times over now so far as I know and just didn't find it worthwhile enough to keep being the dictator in chief. Which would be akin to Batman defeating the entire concept of crime, and then stepping back and allowing the concept of crime to exist again because he's bored.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 14:46
|
|
|
they should do a Doctor Strange movie/series that adapts the storyline where he participates in the magical cosmic competition to choose the next Sorcerer Supreme, and that's where they should introduce Doom (but incognito)
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
live with fruit posted:It's Dottie is Mephisto/Reed Richards is the engineer territory but there are theories out there that Zemo's line about neighboring countries absorbing what's left of Sokovia being a way of introducing Doom, with him scooping up all the leftover vibranium. Ok, I'm embracing the sheer stupidity of trying to force in a theory for a F4 origin in every Marvel property. Like the X-Men, ok. Wanda, Quicksilver, Madripor. I get it. But the F4 ones are just funny.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 15:48
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:I love Gob but I don’t think he’s GOAT material because (and please nerds do correct me if I’m wrong) Magneto and Dr. Doom threatened the Earth like dozens of times, but Gob is just like Parker’s personal Joker style nemesis who trolls Manhattan and tries to ruin Peter’s personal life, which are the kinds of things that are too small ball for Magneto. Dr. Doom and Magneto are going to try to crash an asteroid into the moon, Gob is gonna try to crush Pete’s girlfriend under a collapsing clock tower. Norman Osborn succeeded in taking over SHIELD, making his own Iron Man suit, creating his own Avengers team of supervillains, and hunted down and captured/ exterminated numerous superheros/ Metahumans as Director of HAMMER and Iron Patriot. He did all of this with the full support and approval of the US Government. Don't sleep on Osborn: Norman is downright terrifyingly effective when he wants to be. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:03
|
|
|
Can Feige and co. even really use the Green Goblin? Sony seems to have big plans for their own Sonyverse and Goblin's a heavy hitter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:08
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Ok, I'm embracing the sheer stupidity of trying to force in a theory for a F4 origin in every Marvel property. Like the X-Men, ok. Wanda, Quicksilver, Madripor. I get it. But the F4 ones are just funny. I'm still hanging my hat on "The Eternals" being how the X-Men are pulled into the MCU, being as how they're basically mutants themselves via the Celestials and related to the mutatative strain in humanity within the comics. I don't know how the F4 will be pulled in though; maybe they'll feature in one of the upcoming cosmic films, like Guardians 3 or Captain Marvel 2? One will already have Thor though, while the other will already have both Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau, so I doubt it. I'm also looking forward to Blade pulling in vampires and presumably other mythological creatures. That aside, Marvel released some new pics for the upcoming What...if? show.    I've never really cared about the Marvel Zombies, but Peggy as Cap (Captain Britain? Captain Allies?) looks cool, and it's interesting to see Killmonger, Gamora and Widow there too. I'd presume Killmonger and/or Gamora will figure into T'Challa as Starlord, while Widow helps Howard and Peggy as part of SHIELD. It looks like Thor is there in a "what if Thor never got banished and became worthy" way too, with Odin never having put a seal on Mjolnir, so he can use it despite being a dick. The show will be ten episodes, and I'd guess we've seen pics or snippets of 6:
I'm guessing Bucky is one of a small band of survivors in his universe leading the charge against the zombies, including Cap, that maybe Strange's is about what if...he never hurt his hands and that the Tony one is about him designing the armor while staying a war-mongering douche. There's one shot of Carol in the trailer too, but that could be in the T'Challa episode, given how brief it is. Or it could be her own thing, and they just didn't have much done of it at the time. Either way, I'm real excited about this after watching the trailer again. Peggy holding onto a special handle on Howard's bigass Mk I style armor, Bucky against Zombie Cap, T'Challa's cosmic adventure (and Boseman's last outing), Strange meeting Uatu (or at least, his shadow appearing behind Strange) etc. There's some real cool looking poo poo in there. live with fruit posted:Can Feige and co. even really use the Green Goblin? Sony seems to have big plans for their own Sonyverse and Goblin's a heavy hitter. He's probably not part of the deal, but Feige seems to want to use lesser Spiderman villains, rather than concetrating on the bigger hitters we've seen before (Norman, Venom etc) so I doubt it matters. tsob fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
tsob posted:I'd actually say he's worse than those badly written takes on Batman, because Dr. Doom outright has conquered the world multiple times over now so far as I know and just didn't find it worthwhile enough to keep being the dictator in chief. Which would be akin to Batman defeating the entire concept of crime, and then stepping back and allowing the concept of crime to exist again because he's bored. Maybe Victor is low key depressed and doesn’t know what do with the things that make him happy once he has them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
I want to know more about Party Thor.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
tsob posted:He's probably not part of the deal, but Feige seems to want to use lesser Spiderman villains, rather than concetrating on the bigger hitters we've seen before (Norman, Venom etc) so I doubt it matters. I wonder if that's Feige's call or Sony throwing them relative scraps. Supposedly Coogler wanted Kraven for BP but now he's getting his own movie.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:39
|
|
|
live with fruit posted:I wonder if that's Feige's call or Sony throwing them relative scraps. Supposedly Coogler wanted Kraven for BP but now he's getting his own movie. There's definitely this dance going on where Sony will never ever give up the rights they have in perpetuity, but they're also fully aware that they are riding the coattails of the MCU for a lot of their box office sales.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:43
|
|
|
tsob posted:I'm still hanging my hat on "The Eternals" being how the X-Men are pulled into the MCU, being as how they're basically mutants themselves via the Celestials and related to the mutatative strain in humanity within the comics. I don't know how the F4 will be pulled in though; maybe they'll feature in one of the upcoming cosmic films, like Guardians 3 or Captain Marvel 2? One will already have Thor though, while the other will already have both Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau, so I doubt it. I'm also looking forward to Blade pulling in vampires and presumably other mythological creatures. Given the nature of What If and that Guardians of the Multiverse with Utah thing my guess would be that its like 7-9 standalone episodes with Utah peering into different worlds and then a big crossover between all the worlds bringing the main heroes together.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:48
|
|
|
tsob posted:T'Challa's cosmic adventure (and Boseman's last outing) I'm gonna cry at this one, I know it.  tsob posted:I don't know how the F4 will be pulled in though; maybe they'll feature in one of the upcoming cosmic films, like Guardians 3 or Captain Marvel 2? I really liked one idea the comics had when they were staying off from incorporating F4 because of the movie situation. They retconned the F4 as having existed, but back in the 60s, and that's why they're not around in the modern day comics. I'd be interested in seeing that sort of take on it. Maybe have them having vanished into the Negative Zone in the 60s, and now they're back, powers and all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
tsob posted:I'm still hanging my hat on "The Eternals" being how the X-Men are pulled into the MCU, being as how they're basically mutants themselves via the Celestials and related to the mutatative strain in humanity within the comics. I don't know how the F4 will be pulled in though; maybe they'll feature in one of the upcoming cosmic films, like Guardians 3 or Captain Marvel 2? One will already have Thor though, while the other will already have both Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau, so I doubt it. I'm also looking forward to Blade pulling in vampires and presumably other mythological creatures. Real disappointed they couldn't make What If completely episodic. This ruins any tension in all of the lead up to the team up episodes. If they were married to the team idea, they should have put a non-MCU character/what if in the series to really make fans go wild.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Given the nature of What If and that Guardians of the Multiverse with Utah thing my guess would be that its like 7-9 standalone episodes with Utah peering into different worlds and then a big crossover between all the worlds bringing the main heroes together. Utah peers at us all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Given the nature of What If and that Guardians of the Multiverse with Utah thing my guess would be that its like 7-9 standalone episodes with Utah peering into different worlds and then a big crossover between all the worlds bringing the main heroes together. Yeah, I didn't even really think about the Guardians of the Multiverse name, but that makes some sense. It'd make them akin to an MCU Exiles team too, which I would be completely down for; especially if there's multiple seasons with a few episodes at the end of each season featuring a team up of all the characters we'd been following, but new characters each time. Also, I wonder if that sleeveless Natasha is a Russian super soldier to face Peggy in the modern day, since we see Fury uncovering a shield and that Natasha is wearing a variation of contemporary Widow armor and using the same weapons. The What If...? version of Bucky basically, though without the tie to that version of Captain America/Britain/whatever, since there's no established friend of Peggy to lose and undergo that treatment beyond Steve; which would kind of undercut the story by making him a super soldier again; even a Russian brainwashed one. Spacebump posted:Real disappointed they couldn't make What If completely episodic. This ruins any tension in all of the lead up to the team up episodes. If they were married to the team idea, they should have put a non-MCU character/what if in the series to really make fans go wild. I mean, I guess it guarantees Peggy will survive, but it doesn't really say anything for Howard or secondary characters in the other episodes. Who can be a source of tension too. It's not like Winter Soldier lacked tension because we knew Steve would survive or anything. Also, the entire draw of the What If...? line is tackling stories about little changes to familiar characters and familiar stories. Which means familiar to the audience, not to a part of the audience who've read the comics. The majority of MCU fans won't have read the comics, so doing a story about "What If..." Norrin Radd never joined Galactus, showed up to help on Titan against Thanos or whatever wouldn't hold nearly as much impact. Which is ignoring that it's possible they're holding back a surprise character or story anyway. It's also not like the lead character in every story has to survive. The Bucky we see fighting Cap could die for instance, since he'd be pretty redundant on a team with Cap Peggy. tsob fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Apr 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:17
|
|
|
tsob posted:Yeah, I didn't even really think about the Guardians of the Multiverse name, but that makes some sense. It'd make them akin to an MCU Exiles team too, which I would be completely down for; especially if there's multiple seasons with a few episodes at the end of each season featuring a team up of all the characters we'd been following, but new characters each time. Also, I wonder if that sleeveless Natasha is a Russian super soldier to face Peggy in the modern day, since we see Fury uncovering a shield and that Natasha is wearing a variation of contemporary Widow armor and using the same weapons. The What If...? version of Bucky basically, though without the tie to that version of Captain America/Britain/whatever, since there's no established friend of Peggy to lose and undergo that treatment beyond Steve; which would kind of undercut the story by making him a super soldier again; even a Russian brainwashed one. I've read almost every issue of What If, I understand the draw of the comics. I always appreciated that when the comic was over, the story was done unless it was a 2 parter. Heroes getting wrecked in their own What Ifs was always fun. I did not mean that I want them to do really random What Ifs (yet) like the one you proposed. They should all be drawn from live action movies at least initially. I'm saying do they should do something like a Fox X-Men What If and have that character join the Guardians of the Multiverse thing. It'd be more fun than the lineup they have.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:25
|
|
|
Spacebump posted:I've read almost every issue of What If, I understand the draw of the comics. I always appreciated that when the comic was over, the story was done unless it was a 2 parter. Heroes getting wrecked in their own What Ifs was always fun. I did not mean that I want them to do really random What Ifs (yet) like the one you proposed. They should all be drawn from live action movies at least initially. I'm saying do they should do something like a Fox X-Men What If and have that character join the Guardians of the Multiverse thing. It'd be more fun than the lineup they have. There's no guarantee that any given audience member would know that X-Man though. They're pulling from within the MCU and the stories they have established; not ones in film full stop. If anything, it'd be a chance to introduce the Netflix characters into the MCU, but they probably want to introduce them in a regular continuity first and then maybe do something with them, since the audience can't be guaranteed to know them and their stories are not part of the MCU regardless so they'd just have to be plopped into someone else's story as a supporting character in a story they weren't originally part of. Which might appeal to you, but doesn't sound any better to me, honestly. The lineup they have seems fun to me, based on what little we have. Additionally, if it follows Exiles logic then Uata can probably pull them from prior to their death even if they die in their own storyline and let them live on in this new multiverse.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:30
|
|
|
It would be funny to do a fantastic four movie origin where their villain isn’t doom. Unfortunately Incredibles handled the threat of the underminer, but the frightful four could be just as good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:31
|
|
|
Golden Bee posted:It would be funny to do a fantastic four movie origin where their villain isn’t doom. Unfortunately Incredibles handled the threat of the underminer, but the frightful four could be just as good. Honestly, I'd say someone tied to the Negative Zone like Annihilus or Blastaar, or even a cosmic villain like the Super Skrull makes a better origin villain anyway since it ties them to adventures in distant places by necessity. You could still have Victor von Doom as someone in the movie, just not a focus. A character whose ire rises throughout the story or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
tsob posted:There's no guarantee that any given audience member would know that X-Man though. They're pulling from within the MCU and the stories they have established; not ones in film full stop. If anything, it'd be a chance to introduce the Netflix characters into the MCU, but they probably want to introduce them in a regular continuity first and then maybe do something with them, since the audience can't be guaranteed to know them and their stories are not part of the MCU regardless so they'd just have to be plopped into someone else's story as a supporting character in a story they weren't originally part of. Which might appeal to you, but doesn't sound any better to me, honestly. The lineup they have seems fun to me, based on what little we have. Multiverse should mean more than multiverses that are similar to MCU. Also, lol at concern the audience members might not know who the X-Men are while wanting to bring in Netflix characters. Netflix shows aren't part of the MCU. There is no guarantee the audience would know any of these characters much like the Fox X-Men. However, I'd be the Fox X franchise is more well known than the Netflix Marvel shows. I agree that bringing in the netflix characters would be fun but audiences are less likely to know who they are than the X-Men. At least the real MCU has acknowledged the Fox X movies with joke casting in WandaVision. That is a great point if it follows Exiles logic, I didn't think about that part.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:37
|
|
|
Spacebump posted:Multiverse should mean more than multiverses that are similar to MCU. I never said that the Netflix characters were part of the MCU: I said it'd be a way to introduce them, but Feige probably wants them introduced in regular continuity first via the normal films or shows (since the rumor is he wants to bring in Charlie Cox, Krysten Ritter and Mike Colter as the characters, but not their shows). At which point, whether the audience knows them or not is immaterial, since they'd be introduced as a regular part of the MCU. Of course, if he isn't interested in bringing them into the MCU and the rumor of Charlie Cox appearing as Daredevil in Spiderman: No Way Home is just that, then never mind.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 14:19 |
|
|
Spacebump posted:Multiverse should mean more than multiverses that are similar to MCU. Yes, I agree. The What If...? series should have an ITSV Miles Morales cameo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2021 17:44
|
|