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They're not temporary problems, pitchers throw really hard and really nasty and are going to continue to do so. Strikeouts are higher than they've ever been and are going to continue to go up unless you do something about it. They've changed the strike zone plenty of times, how is that any different than moving the mound back?
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Apr 14, 2021 16:52
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more falafel please posted:They're not temporary problems, pitchers throw really hard and really nasty and are going to continue to do so. Strikeouts are higher than they've ever been and are going to continue to go up unless you do something about it. Pitchers have always thrown really hard and really nasty, the limits of the human body haven't changed in the past hundred years. Pitchers just didn't put the extra oomph on the ball until they had runners in scoring position back in the day, they throw every pitch at max effort now. That's going to ease off eventually because owners will get tired of paying $300m for guys who can't throw a full season without injury. It's a temporary problem.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:54
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more falafel please posted:They're not temporary problems, pitchers throw really hard and really nasty and are going to continue to do so. Strikeouts are higher than they've ever been and are going to continue to go up unless you do something about it. have hitters tried not selling out for TTO
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Apr 14, 2021 16:55
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I think I would love tying the DH to the starting pitcher.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:11
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bawfuls posted:This league is a joke. They managed to change the ball in ways that will likely result in more strikeouts AND more dingers, despite their stated goal of increaseing balls in play. Not surprising, it is delusional to think you can control the carry distance of the ball by 1-2 feet. It's just so funny. I do think it's really interesting that they acknowledge a few feet reduction could have a dramatic (5%) reduction on home run rates when the argument during the steroid era was a few feet increase wouldn't make much difference lol.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:16
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Poque posted:I think I would love tying the DH to the starting pitcher. Yes, by having one guy perform both tasks, the way it's supposed to be.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:21
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Manfred isn't a baseball guy, he's a labor lawyer.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:27
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Pitchers have always thrown really hard and really nasty, the limits of the human body haven't changed in the past hundred years. It is absolutely not a temporary issue. If anything owners are happy to have pitchers who flame out fast, because they can get production out of them cheap pre-FA and then let them walk.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:29
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Baseball's always had this gimmick or that magic bullet though. The forkball, the screwball, and so on. They come and go.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:31
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I think Greinke still throws an eephus?
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Apr 14, 2021 17:32
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Training with the specific goal of throwing harder, optimizing your mechanics to maximize spin rate and complimentary spin planes, and using high speed cameras to do these things is not a "gimmick". It's elite athletes leveraging the latest technology to improve their performance.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:33
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Ah yes, the gimmick of throwing the ball hard.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:34
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Maybe but like I said, the human body has limits and owners are going to get tired of paying out the rear end for guys who break down a third of the way into the season. It's a temporary problem and it will solve itself, moving the mound back is an unnecessary panic reaction.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:35
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Moving the mound back will put more selection pressure on throwing as hard as possible. Move the mound forward
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Apr 14, 2021 17:35
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Move the mound sideways
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Apr 14, 2021 17:36
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Maybe but like I said, the human body has limits and owners are going to get tired of paying out the rear end for guys who break down a third of the way into the season.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:36
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Move the mound at a thirty degree angle to home plate and ban the shift.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:36
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Popete posted:Ah yes, the gimmick of throwing the ball hard. Hey now there's also the gimmick of throwing your less hard pitches better!
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Apr 14, 2021 17:39
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I can not express how ridiculous an assertion it is to suggest that ownership pressure to reduce injuries will result in a move away from max-effort pitching. Like this is the complete opposite of every incentive built into the sport/business both on and off the field.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:40
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Manfred just pitch multiball come on
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Apr 14, 2021 17:43
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People throwing the ball hard is not a new problem and there's no reason to modify the fundamental rules of a 160 year old sport to compensate for it. Batters just need to get better and quit selling out for home runs all the time.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:44
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Average fastball velocity is up 2.4 mph since 2007 but sure it's not a new problem
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Apr 14, 2021 17:48
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:People throwing the ball hard is not a new problem and there's no reason to modify the fundamental rules of a 160 year old sport to compensate for it. Batters just need to get better and quit selling out for home runs all the time. I think it's weird to hold the pitching distance as sacrosanct but not care about the pitch count rules, the baseball composition, etc. Like why is that immune? bawfuls posted:Average fastball velocity is up 2.4 mph since 2007 but sure it's not a new problem I feel like breaking balls - specially sliders -have gotten nastier in recent years too not sure that's something easily tracked though. Like distance it moves
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Apr 14, 2021 17:49
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adaz posted:I think it's weird to hold the pitching distance as sacrosanct but not care about the pitch count rules, the baseball composition, etc. Like why is that immune? All those rules are stupid too
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Apr 14, 2021 17:50
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bawfuls posted:Average fastball velocity is up 2.4 mph since 2007 but sure it's not a new problem The way velocity is measured changed in 2017 like I said earlier, that accounts for some of it. Also you couldn't even measure velocity for the first 110 years
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Apr 14, 2021 17:51
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Also "selling out for home runs" aka prioritizing hard contact over more contact is not just some gimmick or fad. It is the correct strategy from a game-theory perspective, which is why it's become so commonplace. Ted Williams understood this 80 years ago which is why he didn't change his approach at the plate even when teams shifted him like this: 
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Apr 14, 2021 17:51
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Manfred needs to reintroduce amphetamines to the game so players can manage proper nine inning doubleheaders.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:52
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:The way velocity is measured changed in 2017 like I said earlier, that accounts for some of it. in 2016 it was 93.4
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Apr 14, 2021 17:52
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bawfuls posted:league average fastball velocity in 2007 was 91.1 Do you think the rules need to be changed to handle this?
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Apr 14, 2021 17:53
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adaz posted:I think it's weird to hold the pitching distance as sacrosanct but not care about the pitch count rules, the baseball composition, etc. Like why is that immune?
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Apr 14, 2021 17:54
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^^^^ Huh that's really cool imma google it I bet someone has done a think piece on it. Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Do you think the rules need to be changed to handle this? The league has stated that the current era of TTO is boring to watch and want more balls in play, more steals, more action, etc which is why you see these rule changes. The whole point is to cut down on Ks and homers
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Apr 14, 2021 17:56
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adaz posted:The league has stated that the current era of TTO is boring to watch and want more balls in play, more steals, more action, etc which is why you see these rule changes. The whole point is to cut down on Ks and homers No one steals anymore because the game trends towards giant fat men who hit the ball really hard. I just don't think it's a good idea to change the fundamental rules of a 160 year old game to compensate for trends when trends come and go and everything in baseball is cyclical. I'm probably in the minority there but panic changes are a bad idea to me, you eventually end up with something that just isn't baseball anymore. I also think the game should be played like it was in 1970 so ymmv. I'm going to watch whatever they change so it's all internet posturing.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:58
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Do you think the rules need to be changed to handle this? The league would decide and announce target values and ranges for league-wide metrics of scoring and play, specifically the rate of balls in play (or 1-TTO%) and runs per game. The targets should probably be something akin to the post-deadball averages so like ~75% balls in play rate (or 25% TTO rate) and 4.5 runs per game per team. The league should actively seek to maintain these targets via rules and equipment changes, including adjustemetns to the constructino of the baseball, the size and shape of the strikezone (this would be easier with an automated strikezone) and the distance/height of the mound. All of these are changes the league has made to the rules in the past, and are less aesthetically offensive to me than the runner in extra innings or banning the shift.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:02
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The runner on second and seven inning doubleheaders are abominations and need to go.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:03
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160 years ago the pitchers mound was a flat box 50 ft from the plate, batters could request a high or low pitch, curveballs were illegal, and it took 9 balls to draw a walk.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:04
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They never should have made curveballs legal
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Apr 14, 2021 18:06
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:The runner on second and seven inning doubleheaders are abominations and need to go. yeah this i'm more upset about than any changes to pitchers mounds. Like how dare they pull extra baseball away from us
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Apr 14, 2021 18:06
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The baseball media and pundits by and large seem like a bunch of people who actually don't like baseball and just want it over and done with asap. The Pirates - Padres game last night was 4h 5m and it was a rollercoaster ride the entire way through.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:07
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:I also think the game should be played like it was in 1970 so ymmv. I'm going to watch whatever they change so it's all internet posturing. But why 1970? That seems arbitrary; especially since you're making claims about rules staying the same for 160 years (they haven't as other people pointed out)
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Apr 14, 2021 18:10
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Slimy Hog posted:But why 1970? That seems arbitrary; especially since you're making claims about rules staying the same for 160 years (they haven't as other people pointed out) Pre-DH, good mix of big fat Stargell and Boog Powell types who hammered dingers and agile guys like Bert Campaneris who stole bases.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:12
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