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Had a dream last night that I was helping to put together a live-stage Dune Musical, but it had the cast of Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan. Unusual to have such vivid scenes.
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Apr 9, 2021 14:51
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Johnny Aztec posted:Had a dream last night that I was helping to put together a live-stage Dune Musical, but it had the cast of Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan. who did Ricardo play?
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Apr 9, 2021 15:11
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uber_stoat posted:who did Ricardo play? Plastic chest in one = heart-plug in the other?
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Apr 9, 2021 18:23
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Since there's talk of David Lynch's Dune, I just want to point people to Dune: The Alternative Edition Redux, which is a fan-edit made by a person named spicediver. how do i download this i'm old
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Apr 9, 2021 18:28
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uber_stoat posted:who did Ricardo play? Didn't get that far. In your heart, who do you feel he should be?
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Apr 9, 2021 18:29
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kiimo posted:how do i download this i'm old Or you can PM me and I can hook you up. First sample is free.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:50
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Inverted Icon posted:I know the thread moved on, but that the society didn't change much between the reign of Leto II and the beginning of heretics is part of the point. How much has the basic societal structure Really changed between now and ancient Ur? How much Will it change between now and a martian colony? Not very much I'd say, initially. That's why the scattered are so threatening to the old empire. They're represent the new and unprecedented. How can other memory help with what is not in its memory? It still sits weirdly with me. The basic societal structure between now and ancient Ur is.... entirely different. Imagine if the Catholic Church that we think of from the middle ages persisted more or less unchanged into the year 2700. It's inconceivable. That said, some of what Heretics seemed to be getting at was that in response to Leto II, the BG and the BT, through the use of gholas and ancestral memories, kind of made themselves into hives organisms not unlike Leto himself. So in some sense it would make sense that the motives and aims and goals of the BG and BT could be so unchanging over the millennia, but I just find it peculiar that Heretics contains all of the same entities, no more no less, and with a few political adjustments they all have mostly maintained their role in the galaxy. Like, just think about how different American is since say, financialization in the 70s, the internet, the tech boom, etc. That's just 50 years. It just strains credulity for me to imagine that any society, even one intent on stasis, could actually evolve so little in that timeframe. I haven't read Chapterhouse but I assume it's more of the same as far as the spacing guild, IX, etc. edit: I guess CHOAM and the Landsraad ceased to exist by the beginning of Leto II, but what else changes after that? The Fish Speakers seem only relevant during his reign.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:10
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Imo the emperor and his retinue had tons of water imported to Arrakis with them since they were too good to wear still-suits. Some Fremen thopter or lasgun took one of these container ships out in the air, and Paul used the moment to appear Messianic. I assure you, I've read this all in Frank's notes. No further questions.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:22
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It's a simple example of selective pressures: Those who didn't get scattered after the four-thousand-or-so-years of enforced stagnation will likely continue to stagnate even more.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:23
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YoursTruly posted:Imo the emperor and his retinue had tons of water imported to Arrakis with them since they were too good to wear still-suits. I assumed, from what the planetologist guy (Liet Kynes) said, that Arrakis had all the water of any normal planet, it was just tied up in the sandplankton/sandtrout/worm biosphere. It was always implied that the water exists, they just have to fix it into plants instead of sandtrout. But plants need a moist atmosphere to exist and all that, which kills off worms. Hence no worms in God Emperor. Then Chapterhouse and suddenly Arrakis is Dune again. Where's all this mythical comet water? Hmm?
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Apr 9, 2021 19:40
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Ventral EggSac posted:We had a fun week or so where it was solid dune yo mama jokes i'm not sure it peaked higher than "shadout in the streets, sandtrout in the sheets" bc
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Apr 9, 2021 23:59
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IronClaymore posted:I assumed, from what the planetologist guy (Liet Kynes) said, that Arrakis had all the water of any normal planet, it was just tied up in the sandplankton/sandtrout/worm biosphere. In Chapterhouse Arrakis is a cinder. It gets glassed in Heretics, the BG are turning their home planet of Chapterhouse into Dune in Chapterhouse Dune.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:06
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IronClaymore posted:Then Chapterhouse and suddenly Arrakis is Dune again. Where's all this mythical comet water? Hmm? The sand trout that got released from Leto at the end of God Emperor have re-destertificated Arrakis in the intervening X,000 years.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:16
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Always catch and release small sandtrout
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Apr 10, 2021 01:16
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:... looking forward to seeing this in october while sitting next to a coughing, sweaty, thousand pound man. anything rad happen itt in the last 5 months? He gained 15 pounds.
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Apr 12, 2021 12:52
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help me moneo I'm trying to desert-form the planet but I'm wormy thicc and the clap of my segments keeps allerting the duncans
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Apr 12, 2021 15:33
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Bubblyblubber posted:help me moneo I'm trying to desert-form the planet but I'm wormy thicc and the clap of my segments keeps allerting the duncans
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Apr 12, 2021 16:23
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Lincoln posted:He gained 15 pounds. me too 
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Apr 12, 2021 20:12
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Highlander II: The Renegade Cut is the unofficial sidequel to Dune
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Apr 13, 2021 04:04
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I'm watching what I assume is the original version of Highlander 2 right now and man I wish it was pulling me in more because on paper it should whip
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Apr 13, 2021 04:15
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Well, I'm a Dune nerd now I guess. Tore through the first one and maybe 1/3 left of Messiah and enjoying it. Are the Bene Gesserit the sex witches and I missed that or is that later or something else?
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Apr 14, 2021 23:21
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I'm about 2/3 thru Children of Dune and the witches haven't gotten too sexy 
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Apr 14, 2021 23:24
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the sex witches show up in the final two books.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:25
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KonMari DeathMetal posted:Are the Bene Gesserit the sex witches and I missed that or is that later or something else? They're kind of sex witches; their main thing is the breeding program but I think there's some pussy mind control going on with their involvement in the Great Houses. The real sex witches show up in Heretics, I think - the Honored Matres. I don't recall there really being much sex stuff at all until that gross scene in Children where Leto and Ghanima are at the spice orgy and IIRC even some Fremen remark that it's weird because they're supposed to be like 15 years old at that point.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:29
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They are 9 years old, op. But it's ok, they have old souls.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:42
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Mister Speaker posted:They're kind of sex witches; their main thing is the breeding program but I think there's some pussy mind control going on with their involvement in the Great Houses. The real sex witches show up in Heretics, I think - the Honored Matres. I don't recall there really being much sex stuff at all until that gross scene in Children where Leto and Ghanima are at the spice orgy and IIRC even some Fremen remark that it's weird because they're supposed to be like 15 years old at that point. You’re also forgetting in Children how their was a plan for them to interbreed
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Apr 14, 2021 23:43
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By the sisterhood, yeah, and even then there was a huge squick factor, they were afraid of losing the genes. Alia/Baron was in favour because he knew it would destroy the Atreides.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:52
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quote:what i got you got to see it as your mama
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Apr 15, 2021 00:08
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Jewmanji posted:It still sits weirdly with me. The basic societal structure between now and ancient Ur is.... entirely different. Imagine if the Catholic Church that we think of from the middle ages persisted more or less unchanged into the year 2700. It's inconceivable. That said, some of what Heretics seemed to be getting at was that in response to Leto II, the BG and the BT, through the use of gholas and ancestral memories, kind of made themselves into hives organisms not unlike Leto himself. So in some sense it would make sense that the motives and aims and goals of the BG and BT could be so unchanging over the millennia, but I just find it peculiar that Heretics contains all of the same entities, no more no less, and with a few political adjustments they all have mostly maintained their role in the galaxy. Like, just think about how different American is since say, financialization in the 70s, the internet, the tech boom, etc. That's just 50 years. It just strains credulity for me to imagine that any society, even one intent on stasis, could actually evolve so little in that timeframe. I had always taken it as based on ancient Egypt, where that did basically happen. Thats what stagnation means. Bear in mind also that the survival of the institution and name doesn't mean its identical in function now to how it was in the past and I don't think the books give us enough detail to evaluate changes there. There has been a King of England for a thousand years, a Pope and an Emperor of Japan for twice that.
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Apr 15, 2021 00:12
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under the sietch sand ground is where i hid my spice
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Apr 15, 2021 00:14
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I just got to the part of Heretics where Duncan becomes a super saiyan, but at loving and I don't know if this book is terrible or if it rules.
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Apr 15, 2021 23:26
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feedmegin posted:I had always taken it as based on ancient Egypt, where that did basically happen. Thats what stagnation means. Bear in mind also that the survival of the institution and name doesn't mean its identical in function now to how it was in the past and I don't think the books give us enough detail to evaluate changes there. There has been a King of England for a thousand years, a Pope and an Emperor of Japan for twice that. But I think the books do give us enough detail to evaluate whether there are any changes, because Herbert is foregrounding the same activities in Heretics that he does in Dune, implying that, for instance, the BG are still seeking a Kwisatz Haderach after approx. 5000 years since Dune 1. There's no discernable difference between the BG of Heretics and the BG of Dune, except that there's now a Mother Superior, though I'm unsure if that is something that changed or was something that Herbert was silent on in the first books. Same with the Bene Tleilax. In the case of the BG and the BT it does make sense given that there's a continuous consciousness that's keeping them on task over the course of centuries, but the rest of the world is unchanged too. And it just strikes me as odd that the monoculture of the BT, which is known in the era of Messiah primarily as the manufacturers of gholas, are still somehow making that same technology in Heretics. Granted, they're making synthetic spice as well at this point, but that's not terribly impressive after 5000 years. It'd be like if 1500 years from now there was a company named Apple that was still mostly known for making cellular phones. Now obviously Leto IIs project was all about forced stagnation, but 1500 years have passed since then. Even if Herbert's supposition is that the dictates of the Butlerian Jihad would dramatically constrict technological progress, it strains credulity to imagine that all of the same players are still on the game board, serving the same roles. In your own example, you would admit that the King of England from 1200 has little or nothing to do with QE2, but that even more importantly, the context around that role has changed so dramatically that a King of England circa 1200 and QE2 are similarly in only the most superficial ways. Even the political and religious reforms in the time of Henry VIII represent more change, in the span of a single monarch, than we tend to see in these latter Dune books. In 1500 years there isn't a single entity within the Old Imperium that can lay claim to as much power and influence as those legacy bodies of the BG, BT, Ix, Spacing Guild? I'm not saying it's unrealistic, obviously this is just a fantasy, but where the early books seemed so believable, I found myself feeling a bit irritated that Heretics bore so much resemblance to its predecessors. Why even set it 1500 years after Leto II's reign if so little has changed in that time? It isn't even a plot contrivance to allow Arrakis to undergo desertification, because Messiah/CoD/GeoD suggest that these processes can happen extremely rapidly, in a few generations, rather than a millennia and a half.
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Apr 15, 2021 23:28
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Twitch posted:I just got to the part of Heretics where Duncan becomes a super saiyan, but at loving and I don't know if this book is terrible or if it rules. Terrible with terrible purpose
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Apr 16, 2021 00:03
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Twitch posted:I don't know if this book is terrible or if it rules. Both honestly
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Apr 16, 2021 00:35
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To be fair to the new movie, good or bad, and there's probably 0 chance they'll get to Heretics, this is another crazy scene where Jason Momoa was a good choice as Duncan.
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Apr 16, 2021 01:44
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There's a probably 0 chance they finish the first book
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Apr 16, 2021 03:07
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Ingmar terdman posted:There's a probably 0 chance they finish the first book I wish it were otherwise but hey, at least it keeps that scumbag Brian Herbert from cashing in more than he has. And it limits the destructive influence of KJA, who I'm convinced would, if fed well enough, turn into another Joss Whedon. Murder Hollywood, save Dune.
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Apr 16, 2021 07:55
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KonMari DeathMetal posted:Dear Dune Goons, I am not going to read the entire thread, but I want to read Dune. I know at some point the series goes from good to terrible, where am I supposed to stop. Read to god-emperor of Dune, but if you can't stop there do yourself a favor and go no further than Chapterhouse of Dune at the absolute furthest. It does not get better.
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Apr 16, 2021 09:38
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i read to chapterhouse dune and now im back in lockdown and i want to witness ULTRASPICE finally, which one of the failson books is that? e: loving hell i thought they only wrote two or three, there's like twelve
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Apr 16, 2021 09:44
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Eau de MacGowan posted:i read to chapterhouse dune and now im back in lockdown and i want to witness ULTRASPICE finally, which one of the failson books is that? I’ve had COVID and read one of the failson books, I recommend you get COVID as a far more pleasant and less neurologically damaging option
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Apr 16, 2021 09:55
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