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SchnorkIes posted:Yeah I mean if they're predictable it's just a cost of doing business, like any other fee or toll, just with a different infrastructure behind it. Why does it matter if it goes to some guy vs some govt you have no say in or control over? well drat since you put it that way I guess corruption is ok
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Apr 15, 2021 00:34
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Is there some kind of moral objection to bribes?
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Apr 15, 2021 00:41
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Grip it and rip it posted:Is there some kind of moral objection to bribes? -trump
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Apr 15, 2021 00:44
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I can never be a politician because I’ve been poor before and you could easily bribe me with a few zeroes on a check.
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Apr 15, 2021 00:47
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Things in this world are sold to the highest bidder. I don't see how bribes really deviate from that reality in any substantial way. Like withholding services that would otherwise be performed pending the delivery of a bribe is bad, but so is simply taking down a complaint and not doing anything about it. I think the context surrounding a bribe have a much more significant moral dimension than the exchange of cash for a service. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 00:48
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Grip it and rip it posted:Things in this world are sold to the highest bidder. I don't see how bribes really deviate from that reality in any substantial way. It's that some things shouldn't be sold. For example, if you could bribe your way out of murdering someone, that'd be an objectively worse world than one where you can't. And since it's a lot harder to draw a line around "these things should be bribable and these things shouldn't" a clear bright "bribes are bad" line helps maintain the norm in places where it really matters.
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Apr 15, 2021 00:51
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Grip it and rip it posted:Things in this world are sold to the highest bidder. I don't see how bribes really deviate from that reality in any substantial way. quoting this so you can't edit it
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Apr 15, 2021 00:53
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boop the snoot posted:I can never be a politician because I’ve been poor before and you could easily bribe me with a few zeroes on a check. Yeah but my luck, and maybe yours, I'd end up like one of those guys from the slides about insider threat who sold secrets for like $5,000..
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Apr 15, 2021 00:57
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To give an example, there’s a port where it’s well known that if you don’t put a $20 in the glove the foreman “drops” in front of you, your ship is going to get loaded very shittily. You could file a complaint, but by the time it’s received, your ship has already been loaded. By the time it gets investigated, every single ship your company has sent to this port has been delayed by multiple hours (at $lol an hour) and the customer is getting annoyed that your performance is shittier than the competition. The investigation concludes that lol, what are you even talking about? But anyway by that time the ships have started giving the money anyway, out of the crew’s pocket, because gently caress dealing with that poo poo for $20 anyway. This port is in the USA. I’ll let you imagine what it’s like overseas.
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Apr 15, 2021 00:57
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PookBear posted:quoting this so you can't edit it He’s right, if you’re paying someone that is supposed to do something but won’t unless you pay them personally it’s a grease payment and not a “bribe”. Just like a campaign donation isn’t a bribe. Yes this means whether or not giving some foreign customs officer $100 to get into a country is a US federal crime depends on the exact phrasing in a conversation with them.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:00
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Tips are bribes if you really think about it. *ducks*
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Apr 15, 2021 01:03
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My favorite is when they just go “is problem with form capitan” and the captain just hands them a bottle so they flip over to the next form which - you guessed it - has problem.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:04
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Wasabi the J posted:Yeah but my luck, and maybe yours, I'd end up like one of those guys from the slides about insider threat who sold secrets for like $5,000.. Heck no man I’m waiting until I’m a senator to start taking bribes because then laws don’t matter.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:04
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FrozenVent posted:To give an example, there’s a port where it’s well known that if you don’t put a $20 in the glove the foreman “drops” in front of you, your ship is going to get loaded very shittily. The "easy" fix to these problems is vertical integration with a side of omnipresent surveillance, oligopoly, and union busting. I think a $20 tip in a glove is better than Amazonifying the waterfront any more than it already is. I definitely remember loading in Fourchon at docks where the workers could be characterized as "exhausted, cringing serfs" at the start of the big downturn. That Works posted:Tips are bribes if you really think about it. Yeah exactly, grease payments are basically an included gratuity.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:07
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hobbesmaster posted:He’s right, if you’re paying someone that is supposed to do something but won’t unless you pay them personally it’s a grease payment and not a “bribe”. Just like a campaign donation isn’t a bribe. except we're talking about bribes you loving moron Grip it and rip it posted:Is there some kind of moral objection to bribes? FrozenVent posted:fly into Cairo with a duffel bag and fly out empty handed
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Apr 15, 2021 01:09
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hobbesmaster posted:He’s right, if you’re paying someone that is supposed to do something but won’t unless you pay them personally it’s a grease payment and not a “bribe”. Just like a campaign donation isn’t a bribe. And basically everything we did to get work done in HOA.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:09
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That Works posted:Tips are bribes if you really think about it. bribes stands for bucks really insure the best employee services
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Apr 15, 2021 01:09
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Guys what if capitalism is a bribe
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Apr 15, 2021 01:11
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Gaetz's buddy is skeeeeeeeezy. https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1382483237394612225 https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1382486566468268040
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Apr 15, 2021 01:13
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I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been hit with an “entry/exit fee” or some other little bullshit charge coming in and out of places in Africa or the Middle East, always paid in cash directly to the person who was holding my documents at the time. Could I protest it? Sure. Would it be worth it? No, especially when I have four connecting flights to make that day. The only time I would make a stink (after the fact, to my agency’s legal department) is if I got detained and asked to pay a fine for my release because then it’s not just a bribe, it’s effectively robbery. Now extrapolate that out to global shipping when there’s tons of ships waiting to pass through a canal or enter a port. Bribery and low level corruption is a fact of life- lovely as that may be- for a lot of places in the world, and while I won’t defend it, I certainly understand why it happens.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:15
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we went through four years of trump and decrying the constant cronyism and self dealing but now bribes are OK
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Apr 15, 2021 01:16
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PookBear posted:we went through four years of trump and decrying the constant cronyism and self dealing but now bribes are OK Think of them as tips given ahead of time. It’s not nearly the same scale, anyway - I’m not going to hold up a shipment of, idk, 20,000 tons of diesel because the custom officer wants a bottle of scotch. It’s the way of the world outside North America and Western Europe (and even then, sometimes in these places).
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Apr 15, 2021 01:25
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FrozenVent posted:Think of them as tips given ahead of time. It’s not nearly the same scale, anyway - I’m not going to hold up a shipment of, idk, 20,000 tons of diesel because the custom officer wants a bottle of scotch. FrozenVent posted:Legit shipping companies have a process for facilitation payments.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:28
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PookBear posted:we went through four years of trump and decrying the constant cronyism and self dealing but now bribes are OK Pookie, go back to good posting and stop being dumb okay?
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Apr 15, 2021 01:28
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No one is arguing that they want the US/Canada/Northern Europe to have more bribes (though every consumer transaction in the US wants a minimum 20% tip lol), just that it's not the role of a private company to tell Egyptians how to run their country/save them from themselves.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:30
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Because we can’t do business without them and accountants don’t like it when money disappears? So you have an entry like “bonded store disbursement to courtesy gift, XYZ port” and you move on. Because there’s ten other ships in ten other ports in ten other countries that are making “petty cash disbursements to goodwill, ABC port”
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Apr 15, 2021 01:31
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Like it's becoming normal in hot US housing markets for sellers to only consider offers that include an under the table "cash gift" up front, which they keep whether or not they take your offer.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:31
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SchnorkIes posted:Like it's becoming normal in hot US housing markets for sellers to only consider offers that include an under the table "cash gift" up front, which they keep whether or not they take your offer. And ironically I’ve heard key money is mostly gone in Japan
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Apr 15, 2021 01:33
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Oh that reminds me, there used to be a dock in the Midwest that had a mailbox on the dock, like one of those mailboxes with the flag? Anyway when you docked there, you put a box of cookies and a can of coffee in the mailbox or the loading rig had electrical problems for a while. Funny how that goes. That was in Ohio of all places.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:36
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PookBear posted:we went through four years of trump and decrying the constant cronyism and self dealing but now bribes are OK I was pretty sure you've traveled around the world a bit. Its a minor problem in the US and its a way of life everywhere else. What are we going to do to fix bribery in Egypt? Bomb them? poo poo like domestic cash bribes on housing offers are unacceptable and someone needs to 'bribe' those real-estate people with a baseball bat.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:40
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Ohio... Was it one of those ports where you're going to like the last functioning dock in a sea of rust and depression? They deserve some fuckin cookies
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Apr 15, 2021 01:41
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FrozenVent posted:Oh that reminds me, there used to be a dock in the Midwest that had a mailbox on the dock, like one of those mailboxes with the flag? At that point its practically ceremonial "Hi yes I am not new to this we can be friends"
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Apr 15, 2021 01:41
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M_Gargantua posted:I was pretty sure you've traveled around the world a bit. Its a minor problem in the US and its a way of life everywhere else. There's a huge difference between saying bribes are acceptable and paying bribes to get poo poo done in corrupt countries.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:43
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Eej posted:There's a huge difference between saying bribes are acceptable and paying bribes to get poo poo done in corrupt countries. Paying bribes to get poo poo done in corrupt countries is acceptable
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Apr 15, 2021 01:45
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Incoming. Incoming. Incoming. [click] [beep] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN2C12PR
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Apr 15, 2021 01:46
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Eej posted:There's a huge difference between saying bribes are acceptable and paying bribes to get poo poo done in corrupt countries. Do you just pretend reality doesn't exist then?
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Apr 15, 2021 01:48
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Eej posted:There's a huge difference between saying bribes are acceptable and paying bribes to get poo poo done in corrupt countries. SchnorkIes posted:Paying bribes to get poo poo done in corrupt countries is acceptable I think we are all almost on the same page here. Paying a bribe where bribery is part of the process is fine.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:53
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Grip it and rip it posted:I think we are all almost on the same page here. Paying a bribe where bribery is part of the process is fine. you are such an utter piece of poo poo of a lawyer.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:55
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PookBear posted:we went through four years of trump and decrying the constant cronyism and self dealing but now bribes are OK There’s a huge difference between members of the ruling party/family rearranging the entire ship of state to gorge themselves at the public trough and some bureaucrat who’s a generation removed from being a dirt farmer who gets paid in scraps seeking extra cash on the side because everyone else at their ministry does it. Both are technically wrong but let’s not pretend there’s not an order of magnitude of difference between them. I mean gently caress when I lived in Egypt I knew a few doctors who were employed by the Ministry of Health who had their wages (less than $100 a month) supplemented by a few dozen chicken eggs.
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Apr 15, 2021 01:58
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What could a bribe cost, $10?
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Apr 15, 2021 01:59
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