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76 | 50.67% |
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74 | 49.33% |
| Total: | 127 votes | ||
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Nephzinho posted:What could a bribe cost, $10? In a lot of place, yeah. A carton of duty free cigarettes goes a long way. Edit: friend of mine once got to go to Nigeria on a large crude oil tanker, the custom officer implied that the customs clearance would go a lot faster if she did it one on one with him; he had to satisfy himself with a dozen cartons of cigarettes and a pair of boots. FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 02:02
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FrozenVent posted:In a lot of place, yeah. A carton of duty free cigarettes goes a long way. People do not understand the difference in what a carton of cigarettes is worth to a sophisticated blue state American vs a filthy duty free seaman Edit: I feel like you know it's a kind of sad situation when old boots are so prized poll plane variant fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 02:05
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pantslesswithwolves posted:There’s a huge difference between members of the ruling party/family rearranging the entire ship of state to gorge themselves at the public trough and some bureaucrat who’s a generation removed from being a dirt farmer who gets paid in scraps seeking extra cash on the side because everyone else at their ministry does it. nothing that frozen vent had said in the lead up to this was hinting towards bribing people with eggs. Unless he was trying to imply that someone was going to fly into egypt with a duffel bag full of eggs. FrozenVent posted:Legit shipping companies have a process for facilitation payments. FrozenVent posted:It’s 100% Egypt trying to squeeze them, once the media spotlight is off someone is going to fly into Cairo with a duffel bag and fly out empty handed and the ship will quietly go to Port Said and unload. That’s how it works there, the only difference this time is the memes. This was followed by the resident dipshit lawyer and schmorkles asking what's wrong with bribes.
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Apr 15, 2021 02:12
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M_Gargantua posted:Do you just pretend reality doesn't exist then? I'm literally talking about reality. Two statements: bribery is morally wrong and we should not be encouraging or accepting it paying bribes is a cost of doing business internationally So paying bribes to get poo poo done out there is not morally acceptable but we do it anyway because the costs of taking a stand are very high and our ability to influence foreign nation's corruption is minimal at best. Bribery on home soil should have zero tolerance and the fuzzy language being thrown around suggests (rightfully or not) some people think that bribery at home is also just the cost of doing business.
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Apr 15, 2021 02:13
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The first step in getting rid of domestic bribes is abolishing the police. I consider this an absolute win.
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Apr 15, 2021 02:16
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PookBear posted:you are such an utter piece of poo poo of a lawyer. Esquire is the honorific you're looking for
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Apr 15, 2021 02:20
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FrozenVent posted:That’s assuming Smitt was contracted by the government or SCA and not by the ship. They’d usually get a contract with the ship so they can put a lien on it (beside the coastal / port state would sale to recover from the owner anyway) Whose Line is it Anyway rules have more transparency good lord
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Apr 15, 2021 02:23
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Milo and POTUS posted:Whose Line is it Anyway rules have more transparency good lord Welcome to shipping, where everything's made up and money's the only thing that matters!
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Apr 15, 2021 02:25
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Wrennic_26 posted:Incoming. Incoming. Incoming. [click] [beep] Well you just got 5 more years Iraq! Keep playing, Afghanistan, and we will stay in you for another 20 years!
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Apr 15, 2021 02:31
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I still find it kind of surreal that a country can just *yoink* everything on a cargo ship if it wants to. I mean I guess that's the benefit to being a sovereign power, but jeez. What would happen if a superjumbo cruise ship got stuck? (I have no idea if cruise ships actually go through the Suez canal much) Do they get to ransom the passengers? Enslave the staff? Do they keep all the passengers' luggage and all the booze and stuff from the onboard mall?
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Apr 15, 2021 02:50
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Milo and POTUS posted:Whose Line is it Anyway rules have more transparency good lord New thread title!
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Apr 15, 2021 02:52
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I still find it kind of surreal that a country can just *yoink* everything on a cargo ship if it wants to. I mean I guess that's the benefit to being a sovereign power, but jeez. It's never happened, so 
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Apr 15, 2021 02:58
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I still find it kind of surreal that a country can just *yoink* everything on a cargo ship if it wants to. I mean I guess that's the benefit to being a sovereign power, but jeez. The first world passengers would be fine but good luck to anyone else.
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Apr 15, 2021 02:59
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Eej posted:I'm literally talking about reality. Two statements: I'd imagine that the amount of fuzzy language about bribes is proportional to how much leverage the speaker has to fight that bribery, or how much it impacts them.
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Apr 15, 2021 03:05
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I know corruption, as a word, leaves a bad taste in one's mouth, but I think the ethics probably also can't be separated from the ethics of what you're corrupting. Corruption is bad like a fever, not bad like a virus. It's the symptom--and probably sometimes the easiest economic solution to a problem. Bribes are economic tools. They are abhorred by people living in countries that idealize (even if they often fail to achieve) fairness of courts, equality and equity, economic mobility, the legal and economic freedom for peoples to quit their job and get a new one, transparency in government and systems, and the ability of systems to be rationally altered to meet the need of their clients (i.e. democratic government, customer-oriented businesses). And if those ideals are being met, then they are probably unethical in those situations because they threaten all of those things by obfuscating economic systems. But if the price of corruption is large international companies localize more of their wealth to those adjacent to the efforts, that gets more ethically complicated. There's no doubt great wrongs and nepotisms that likely occur within any regular system of bribery, but the unethical act may not be participation in a system of bribery by either participant, it may be a lack of aforementioned conditions (or whatever other conditions that I didn't just make up are). And that's why it's corruption. It's not a single bad actor, it's complicated and the "wrongness" of some participants could are probably the refusal to violate the sovereignty of a nation and reestablish their government in a way that can establish those conditions. Truth told, I'd prefer it if Maersk didn't do that. So then who's fault is it? Where do I point the finger? Edit: It can also be unethical if you're civically oriented and are trying to participate or build such a society. On the far end of the spectrum would be bribery to achieve war aims against Nazis as pretty close to ethical bribery because pretty much everyone here would agree that undoing that society was a good thing. For the middle cases? I don't know that I'm well informed on the bureaucratic and political situation around the Suez to confidently specify an ethical position. piL fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 03:07
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I still find it kind of surreal that a country can just *yoink* everything on a cargo ship if it wants to. I mean I guess that's the benefit to being a sovereign power, but jeez. Admiralty law has been built out of millennia of shipping magnates doing everything they can to obfuscate ownership and liability. There are more layers in ship ownership than in an onion. The ability of a country to seize a ship and sell it is a necessary result of the ever-present effort by the people who own the ships hiding from liability. Even in 2021, Egypt's only real recourse to ensure they get compensated at all is to seize the vessel. This is their sovereign water and this ship caused them actual loss. If they weren't able to seize the ship, they'd never see a penny. The United States routinely arrests vessels in similar fashion. Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 03:08
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FrozenVent posted:Oh that reminds me, there used to be a dock in the Midwest that had a mailbox on the dock, like one of those mailboxes with the flag? What type of cookies
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Apr 15, 2021 03:12
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I still find it kind of surreal that a country can just *yoink* everything on a cargo ship if it wants to. I mean I guess that's the benefit to being a sovereign power, but jeez. Egypt doesn't have a great track record in terms of being able to hold the canal or the general area of the canal by force so I don't think they'd really want to dabble in headline news kidnapping/atrocities/etc.
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Apr 15, 2021 03:15
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I have a feeling that the cruiseliner insurance would actually just pay whatever they ask since people are a much bigger hassle to deal with than cargo.
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Apr 15, 2021 03:17
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Every single country on this planet has corruption. Low level bribe stuff for dock workers or cops is chump change in comparison to what is happening in the top levels of government. Humans are inheritantly corrupt, the world is a gently caress.
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Apr 15, 2021 03:20
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In other news, this guys chain of command is having a great day I bet. https://twitter.com/ap/status/1382505946778370050?s=21
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Apr 15, 2021 03:33
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CainFortea posted:I'd imagine that the amount of fuzzy language about bribes is proportional to how much leverage the speaker has to fight that bribery, or how much it impacts them. Its a little tricky to evaluate bribes based on western cultural norms. The poorer middle eastern states usually saw them as a gift between friends that helped to smooth things out. This doesn't mean that endemic bribery doesn't enrich connected people or punish poorly connected people but focusing on it strictly in terms of black and white leads to the previous examples of zealous managers trying to stamp out bribery and rapidly finding the exit. Changing cultural norms is one of the hardest things to do so while several packs of (American) Marlboro reds (the tobacco is better and they are worth more) may be perpetuating the status quo, I hope the damage is minor enough to not matter. The only way to avoid it or bigger sources of graft is to completely avoid certain areas of the world. Edit: Maersk tried to institute a no bribery policy. In Egypt the tugs tried to snap $5000 lines, in India the black gangs raided the slop chest anyways and held up the ship for an extended period, Sri Lanka was smooth but I think the captain just gave them cigs out of the slop chest and used the crew fund to pay it, Pakistan see India, etc etc. lightpole fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Apr 15, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2021 03:36
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Nephzinho posted:What could a bribe cost, $10? 
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Apr 15, 2021 03:40
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ASAPI posted:In other news, this guys chain of command is having a great day I bet. This bag of poo poo burned straight the blotter and had a quick mention by the president, he's hosed. They got the sheriff, local leaders, JAG, CID, justice department, post CSM and 2 star, and gently caress knows who else all up in this poo poo, I wouldn't even want to share a loving grid square with him.
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Apr 15, 2021 03:49
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I still find it kind of surreal that a country can just *yoink* everything on a cargo ship if it wants to. I mean I guess that's the benefit to being a sovereign power, but jeez. Countries can do whatever the gently caress they want, what are you gonna do, call the cops? They could seize a cruise ship, it would be a huge international incident, then they’d eventually release people from first world countries and gently caress the rest. I’ve been on a cruise ship that wasn’t allowed to clear custom and immigration until immigration had fingerprinted and photographed the entire crew, US Citizens excepted. What are you gonna do about it, not call Miami?
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Apr 15, 2021 03:51
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Almost 2200 Brooklyn Center MN about to pop off
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Apr 15, 2021 03:54
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The thirteen year old kid in chicago died with his hands in the air, and it doesn't look to me in the screenshot like he's got a gun. Below is spoilered not because it's graphic but because this was the kid's last moments alive. https://twitter.com/HechaEnChicago/status/1382401194627371009Also there's an explanation for the kid getting killed by police at the school in Knoxville. AppleNippleBOB posted:To circle back to the latest school shooting:
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Apr 15, 2021 04:05
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poo poo is going down in Brooklyn Center. Assembly declared unlawful. Hosing down the crowd in OC. Spraying pepperballs. crowd is not budging. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M25oERBxSg
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Apr 15, 2021 04:07
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hobbesmaster posted:Tasers should have the fire button on top like a Star Trek TNG phaser. https://twitter.com/curtisgilbert/status/1382454711920562176
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Apr 15, 2021 04:11
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Police phalanx closing in on protestors.
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Apr 15, 2021 04:11
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Mr. Nice! posted:poo poo is going down in Brooklyn Center. Assembly declared unlawful. Hosing down the crowd in OC. Spraying pepperballs. crowd is not budging. I've been watching wokenet on twitch. The use of dispersal agents of all types hasn't stopped. They've definitely taken lessons from Oregon, unlike the 1/6 crowd. Have their umbrellas, protection, chemical neutralization all set. Its past curfew now so police probably try and disperse soon.
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Apr 15, 2021 04:12
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lightpole posted:I've been watching wokenet on twitch. The use of dispersal agents of all types hasn't stopped. They've definitely taken lessons from Oregon, unlike the 1/6 crowd. Have their umbrellas, protection, chemical neutralization all set. They're marching on them now. Bigass phalanx.
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Apr 15, 2021 04:13
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SchnorkIes posted:Egypt doesn't have a great track record in terms of being able to hold the canal or the general area of the canal by force so I don't think they'd really want to dabble in headline news kidnapping/atrocities/etc. They have a great record of taking their ball and going home. If they can’t control the canal, no one can.
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Apr 15, 2021 04:14
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The cops are having the time of their lives. They live for this. They're rabid dogs itching for a fight. And they're getting a fuckton of overtime.
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Apr 15, 2021 04:15
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Mr. Nice! posted:The cops are having the time of their lives. They live for this. They're rabid dogs itching for a fight. And they're getting a fuckton of overtime. Would you say we’ve entered the summer coolzone?
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Apr 15, 2021 04:18
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FrozenVent posted:Would you say we’ve entered the summer coolzone? Yeah none of the problems in our policing system have been improved since last year, and each incident is getting more and more publicity. People are sick of this poo poo.
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Apr 15, 2021 04:21
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Apr 15, 2021 04:24
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They've got those "nonlethal" microwave pain beams that cause permanent damage mounted to their SUVs.
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Apr 15, 2021 04:24
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M_Gargantua posted:They've got those "nonlethal" microwave pain beams that cause permanent damage mounted to their SUVs. Jesus seriously?
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Apr 15, 2021 04:26
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Remember when TASERs were talked about as “less lethal” alternatives to guns and police weren’t supposed to use them for compliance and torture but only in situations in which they would otherwise shoot to kill?
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Apr 15, 2021 04:27
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