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Xtronoc
Aug 29, 2004
Pillbug

Xtronoc posted:

Goons help me make a life changing decision. Current junior funds attorney at sole-proprietorship. I have an offer at a mid-sized firm doing general capital markets work and an interview for a cap markets staff attorney at an AM Law 50.

Mid-sized firm:
Pros: people seem nice, substantial improvement over status quo, broad corporate law training with potential tax work, offer in hand
Cons: not market salary compared to bigger firms but i'm ok with that

Staff attorney:
Pro: well-known firm, maybe in 2 years+ I can lateral elsewhere as an associate (big if???), fixed hours
Cons: stigma as staff attorney lol

Leaning towards the mid-sized firm but I appreciate if you guys have some input.

Update: AM Law 50 gave me 2/3 salary of the mid-sized firms offer :allears:. As a long time lurker it brings a tear to my eye that I made thread title.

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Jean-Paul Shartre
Jan 16, 2015

this sentence no verb


Well glad the decision just got really easy for you. Go make enough to become a client who's money we move!

SlothBear
Jan 25, 2009


One of the many upsides of being disbarred would be how many great stories I could tell.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

SlothBear posted:

One of the many upsides of being disbarred would be how many great stories I could tell.

Ha ha! You won’t believe it. I used the old Ridgefield twirl and *whoosh* chased that money straight back to Lambert’s office. Ahh. Couldn’t believe it myself, truth be told.

Omerta
Feb 19, 2007

I thought short arms were good for benching :smith:

Ani posted:

I'm in biglaw. I would never have an "I told you so" call with a client because that's a good way for your client to stop being your client. I do sometimes commiserate, usually with other lawyers at my firm or sometimes even the lawyers representing the counterparty in the transaction, very much in a "these loving people, we did tell them this was going to happen and it would be a shitshow" kind of way.

Yeah, you write a memo beforehand and give it to the client to cover your rear end in case your client suggests you blessed their really dumb idea later on.

Or if you have a long-term relationship, you can have a “lessons learned” call or write-up after. That’s usually helpful only if there’s a rift between in-house legal and the business, though.

Omerta
Feb 19, 2007

I thought short arms were good for benching :smith:

Bold Robot posted:

For those of you who work in big law, what sense are you getting from your offices about what their plans are for remote work going forward? My office hasn't announced anything concrete, but it isn't exactly a secret that management is jonesing for asses in seats 5 days a week. I really, really do not want to go back to doing that and I hope that is not the way the industry is headed.

My firm is solidly in the “see what everyone else does” camp, but I seriously doubt we’d allow partner track associated to be fully remote. Prior to COVID, my office was generally fine about people not coming into the office on a regular basis unless you worked for one or two crusty old-school partners. Regular office attendance isn’t going anywhere, but I think a number of people will opt to work from home one or two days a week every week.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Bold Robot posted:

For those of you who work in big law, what sense are you getting from your offices about what their plans are for remote work going forward? My office hasn't announced anything concrete, but it isn't exactly a secret that management is jonesing for asses in seats 5 days a week. I really, really do not want to go back to doing that and I hope that is not the way the industry is headed.
Chicago office of national biglaw firm. I think leadership's view is that everyone being offices 5 days a week is a thing of the past. We are looking at laterals in locations we don't have offices and don't plan on having offices, we are looking at downsizing existing space to have some shared offices, and people are moving all over the county, to locations where we don't have offices. We were pretty lax/casual on in-person attendance even before though. I can think of a couple new york partners that have not been to the NY office in years, for example.

evilweasel posted:

i dont know what the gently caress funds attorneys or corporate attorneys in general do - but for the kinds of associates where i do know what it is they do, I would much rather hire a mid-size firm associate than a well-known firm staff attorney if all I knew was the title.

also, a mid-size firm may be a lot easier to make a career out of it than a bigger firm. a staff attorney at a big firm is a dead-end job so you have to move; the mid-size firm you may have an actual shot at partnership or moving in-house with their help
Yeah, as a big firm litigation partner, I would say mid size firm associate all the time.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Honestly " my parent is partner in a practice I can inherit" is the best reason to go to law school
Is inheriting work really a thing that still happens? I don't really see a lot of firm (as opposed to attorney) loyalty any more.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

gvibes posted:


Is inheriting work really a thing that still happens? I don't really see a lot of firm (as opposed to attorney) loyalty any more.

In small practices, particularly PI, it definitely is. Had to deal with that at my previous firm. Though I left in part because I wasn’t certain the clients would stick around when the old man hung them up.

Lots of mix-sized firms around here (10-40 lawyers) also have children of older partners.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

gvibes posted:


Is inheriting work really a thing that still happens? I don't really see a lot of firm (as opposed to attorney) loyalty any more.

In my state yeah but mostly with firms that have really specialized areas of practice. Like if you're THE firm for small independent practicioner med-mal, etc

TheWordOfTheDayIs
Nov 9, 2009

Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction
So I got to see an interesting letterhead today:



Be nice to me today, fellow lawgoons. I just found out that I'm getting evicted:



Nice knowing y'all! I'd better scram before Amtrack Joe gets here!

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
Sovcit with Indian characteristics

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
Lot's of free men of the land based culturally insensitive jokes to be had here I think.

Is there an AG of whatever? Does that qualify for impersonating a state official?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Nice piece of fish posted:

Lot's of free men of the land based culturally insensitive jokes to be had here I think.

Is there an AG of whatever? Does that qualify for impersonating a state official?

From about 1905 to 1907, before the State of Oklahoma was admitted to the United States, Sequoyah was the name of a proposed Indian State made up of the Five Civilized Tribes that made up/had made up the eastern and southeastern third of what became Oklahoma.

There is no Provisional State of Sequoyah, so there is no legal authority that they are impersonating. However, if they try to enforce any of their 'authority' they may run afoul of Oklahoma's anti-sovcit sham process/abuse of process laws.
Currently, Indians within what would have been Sequoyah are immune to state criminal laws, but not immune to Federal or Tribal (actual, recognized Indian Nations) law. However, Pawnee is not within that territory, and I haven't done the research to see if there is a legally extant Reservation there that would convey the same immunity to state criminal prosecution.

joat mon fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Apr 21, 2021

TheWordOfTheDayIs
Nov 9, 2009

Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

joat mon posted:

From about 1905 to 1907, before the State of Oklahoma was admitted to the United States, Sequoyah was the name of a proposed Indian State made up of the Five Civilized Tribes that made up/had made up the eastern and southeastern third of what became Oklahoma.

There is no Provisional State of Sequoyah, so there is no legal authority that they are impersonating. However, if they try to enforce any of their 'authority' they may run afoul of Oklahoma's anti-sovcit sham process/abuse of process laws.
Currently, Indians within what would have been Sequoyah are immune to state criminal laws, but not immune to Federal or Tribal (actual, recognized Indian Nations) law. However, Pawnee is not within that territory, and I haven't done the research to see if there is a legally extant Reservation there that would convey the same immunity to state criminal prosecution.

The author of the letter is a man prominently featured in this video: https://youtu.be/dw7Xhek_Ml8

I’ll let you guess which man.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

The author of the letter is a man prominently featured in this video: https://youtu.be/dw7Xhek_Ml8

I’ll let you guess which man.

💕 Paul Tay 💕 is the Vermin Supreme of Tulsa politics. Unfortunately, while Vermin is on the prankster end of the spectrum, Paul is a ways down on the mentally ill end of the spectrum.

TheWordOfTheDayIs
Nov 9, 2009

Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

joat mon posted:

💕 Paul Tay 💕 is the Vermin Supreme of Tulsa politics. Unfortunately, while Vermin is on the prankster end of the spectrum, Paul is a ways down on the mentally ill end of the spectrum.

With the Tiger King locked up for the foreseeable future, we need a new local aspiring politician/musician/artist/entrepreneur/criminal/renaissance man. Maybe Mr. Tay is up to the challenge?

Edit: I suspect that the main reason Joe Exotic blew up was because of the pandemic lockdowns last year coinciding with the release of Netflix series. There's lots more crazy out there to exploit, Hollywood! Get to work!

TheWordOfTheDayIs fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Apr 21, 2021

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

With the Tiger King locked up for the foreseeable future, we need a new local aspiring politician/musician/artist/entrepreneur/criminal/renaissance man. Maybe Mr. Tay is up to the challenge?

Edit: I suspect that the main reason Joe Exotic blew up was because of the pandemic lockdowns last year coinciding with the release of Netflix series. There's lots more crazy out there to exploit, Hollywood! Get to work!

Paul Tay has been at this since the 80s. It's well past time for him to get some broader recognition.



Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
Yesterday I got to watch a trial attorney ask a victim witness, on the stand, "when did you last beat your wife," and the judge allowed it over the prosecutor's objection

Defense counsel had laid the ground for it -- self defense case, defendant knew about the alleged victim's history of domestic violence and it in his mind at the time as a basis of his actions. Victim then denied ever beating his wife so the attorney brought in a whole stack of incident reports and pictures of his wife's injuries; prosecution objected but it was impeachment evidence at that point and so "victim" proceeds to repeatedly deny recognizing pictures of his own wife, bearing injuries, over and over again. Then the closer was just "Mr. ___, when did you last beat your wife?" and he was already walking back to his table as he asked it, didn't even care what the answer was

Just a beautiful, beautiful exhibition

TheWordOfTheDayIs
Nov 9, 2009

Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Yesterday I got to watch a trial attorney ask a victim witness, on the stand, "when did you last beat your wife," and the judge allowed it over the prosecutor's objection

Defense counsel had laid the ground for it -- self defense case, defendant knew about the alleged victim's history of domestic violence and it in his mind at the time as a basis of his actions. Victim then denied ever beating his wife so the attorney brought in a whole stack of incident reports and pictures of his wife's injuries; prosecution objected but it was impeachment evidence at that point and so "victim" proceeds to repeatedly deny recognizing pictures of his own wife, bearing injuries, over and over again. Then the closer was just "Mr. ___, when did you last beat your wife?" and he was already walking back to his table as he asked it, didn't even care what the answer was

Just a beautiful, beautiful exhibition

Was the defendant the wife?

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

Was the defendant the wife?

Nope, 3rd party, business associate.


It was an attempted murder case, they were doing the initial pre-trial "stand your ground" immunity hearing, which my state has because we are insane. Fact pattern was "victim" approached defendant's car waving and shouting, moved to open car door, defendant shoots.


Judge didn't go along with the stand your ground immunity so it moved forward to trial which was going to happen today but instead he got an offer and pled to something like 3 years probation.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
In Florida dude's self defense immunity would have succeeded based upon the facts as described.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Mr. Nice! posted:

In Florida dude's self defense immunity would have succeeded based upon the facts as described.

Honestly, it probably should have, but judges gonna judge. There were other factors going both ways but they mostly cancelled out or weren't directly relevant or weren't the basis for the judge's ruling.* The judge's comments from the bench when he ruled boiled down to "I don't understand anyone's conduct here, so preponderance isn't met".

*"Victim" had felony record including crimes of dishonesty so his version of events had serious credibility issues; defendant was at victim's apartment complex (although in his own car) so there was an argument he "brought on the difficulty" though that mostly got ignored; defendant arguably fired more shots than necessary to end the threat but counterargument was he was scared and just fired a full clip in a panic; etc.

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Apr 21, 2021

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
Under FL law, attempting to open the car door is burglary/carjacking which is considered a forcible felony under the SYG laws.

The defendant only has to present a prima facie argument that they are entitled to immunity under the statute. In this case, the defendant was in his car (satisfies one prong) and the "victim" was committing a forcible felony (burglary/carjacking satisfies the second prong).

From there the burden shifts to prosecution who must show by clear and convincing evidence that the person should not be entitled to self defense immunity.

thehoodie
Feb 8, 2011

"Eat something made with love and joy - and be forgiven"

joat mon posted:

Sovcit with Indian characteristics

There is a SovCit Indigenous group up in my neck of the woods: the Sovereign (c) Squamish Government.

They even have a Space Program!

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Mr. Nice! posted:

Under FL law, attempting to open the car door is burglary/carjacking which is considered a forcible felony under the SYG laws.

The defendant only has to present a prima facie argument that they are entitled to immunity under the statute. In this case, the defendant was in his car (satisfies one prong) and the "victim" was committing a forcible felony (burglary/carjacking satisfies the second prong).

From there the burden shifts to prosecution who must show by clear and convincing evidence that the person should not be entitled to self defense immunity.

Ahh, ok then, yeah. In our state these immunity hearings have a "preponderance of the evidence" standard and whether or not "victim" was attempting to open the car door was at least partially disputed (he admitted "intending to fight" and that he was moving towards the car door, but he didn't actually reach the car or physically touch it.) There was also some evidence that V. was also armed but it was an unreliable witness who was far away and didn't see what happened well and who changed her story a bit claiming bad memory, and no 2nd firearm was ever found (possibly for good reason as he would've been a felon in possession and thus had good reason to get rid of any firearm he might've had).

Given that the victim had literally zero credibility (repeatedly denying he recognized photos of his own wife on the stand, etc) the defendant's testimony + what the victim admitted should have met that preponderance standard, imho, but the judge didn't agree.

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Apr 21, 2021

TheWordOfTheDayIs
Nov 9, 2009

Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

thehoodie posted:

There is a SovCit Indigenous group up in my neck of the woods: the Sovereign (c) Squamish Government.

They even have a Space Program!

That's impressive, but are they headquartered at a run-down movie theater? (See letterhead in my previous post)

Munin
Nov 14, 2004


The fact that in the US all these stupid arguments and situations often involve guns is another reason why widespread gun ownership is a menace. In other places this kinda poo poo goes down without people getting shot and the average level of damage belligerent assholes can do to each other is generally more limited.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Munin posted:

The fact that in the US all these stupid arguments and situations often involve guns is another reason why widespread gun ownership is a menace. In other places this kinda poo poo goes down without people getting shot and the average level of damage belligerent assholes can do to each other is generally more limited.

Well, yes

Grip it and rip it
Apr 28, 2020

Munin posted:

The fact that in the US all these stupid arguments and situations often involve guns is another reason why widespread gun ownership is a menace. In other places this kinda poo poo goes down without people getting shot and the average level of damage belligerent assholes can do to each other is generally more limited.

People get murdered with rocks, do you want to make rocks illegal?!? Idiot

Munin
Nov 14, 2004


Grip it and rip it posted:

People get murdered with rocks, do you want to make rocks illegal?!? Idiot

Humans are such fragile things. Let me tell you of the hundreds of ways to kill a man.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
I read about a guy who died while having sex, I guess we have to outlaw sex. Good thing this won’t affect me

SlyFrog
May 16, 2007

What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

Phil Moscowitz posted:

I read about a guy who died while having sex, I guess we have to outlaw sex. Good thing this won’t affect me

“...and while I had often said that I wanted to die in bed, what I really meant was that in my old age I wanted to be stepped on by an elephant while making love.”
― Roger Zelazny, The Great Book of Amber

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

Munin posted:

Humans are such fragile things. Let me tell you of the hundreds of ways to kill a man.

I’ve been binging Forged in Fire as my current work time distraction, and the one thing I’ve definitely learned is that “will it kill” is a ridiculously low standard.

We should still outlaw guns.

Eminent Domain
Sep 23, 2007



TheMadMilkman posted:

I’ve been binging Forged in Fire as my current work time distraction, and the one thing I’ve definitely learned is that “will it kill” is a ridiculously low standard.

We should still outlaw guns.

That show is great lazy binge material.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Are you living your brand every day and in all interactions you have with others?

Staying true and upholding your vision consistently is very important - make it a priority!

Grip it and rip it
Apr 28, 2020

Vox Nihili posted:

Are you living your brand every day and in all interactions you have with others?

Staying true and upholding your vision consistently is very important - make it a priority!

I've been winking at everyone at.the courthouse so people will associate me with Wodin, the one eyed norse god of wisdom

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Vox Nihili posted:

Are you living your brand every day and in all interactions you have with others?

Staying true and upholding your vision consistently is very important - make it a priority!

A brand is your soul's own work of art. You can never go wrong if you follow your heart.

Grip it and rip it
Apr 28, 2020
Where do y'all buy dress clothes from? I need to expand my wardrobe

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
Most of my shirts came from goodwill. One of my suits I got in hong kong in 2007 on a port call for $30. Another I got off the shelf at macy’s for $120 and then tailored.

My slacks, khakis, and other pants are from target.

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ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Grip it and rip it posted:

Where do y'all buy dress clothes from? I need to expand my wardrobe

Jos. A. Banks, but other than the standard dark grey and black suits I just pick up shirts whenever they hit clearance.

Business casual pants I just order off of amazon, who cares.

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