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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I honestly like the 2e psionics handbook though I might be the only one. I feel like the main thing psionics needs is I honestly don't like separating magic/psionics to the point where Detect Magic doesn't work on psionics. The way I see it magic verbal/somatic components is just the way screw head backward cultures access their innate psionics.
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Apr 15, 2021 16:10
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Bobby Deluxe posted:There was a bunch of psionics playtest stuff on D&D Beyond last year, but it's crap - you have a telekinesis feat which as you say is just reskinned mage hand, telepathy which is just reskinned message, a few new psychic damage spells and a weird set of UA subclasses that isn't there any more. 2e psionics handbook is online here: https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1411785125629.pdf obviously it would need to be almost entirely rewritten but the main thing is the separate power list. Rutibex posted:I honestly don't like separating magic/psionics to the point where Detect Magic doesn't work on psionics. The way I see it magic verbal/somatic components is just the way screw head backward cultures access their innate psionics. Yeah, it's ultimately a design/ thematic choice : is psionics just magic with a different word, or is it actually a separate thing entirely? Thing is, if it isn't a separate thing entirely, it doesn't need separate mechanics at all; just make a wizard or sorceror and call them a "psionicist." This is what 5e does so far. The problem is that then settings like Dark Sun or Spelljammer which rely on psionics being different kinda collapse. You lose the post-apocalytpic feel of Dark Sun or the Spacepunk feel of Spelljammer because there isn't a "sciencey" element to the setting any more. For certain kinds of stories it really helps to have that contrast between the fantasy-magic and the science-magic and psionics is one of the handles that lets you get a grip on that kind of story.
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Apr 15, 2021 16:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I honestly like the 2e psionics handbook though I might be the only one. I feel like the main thing psionics needs is I loved 2E psionics, as do most people I've played with. It's the only edition where it actually felt like its own thing. It had its clunky bits, but there was a lot of good in it.
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Apr 15, 2021 16:29
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personally i hate psionics, but they are easily enough detachable that they deserve to be fleshed out with real mechanics for people that like them
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Apr 15, 2021 16:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Except dumber and worse Also come on, DiTerlizzi is to Planescape what Brom is to Dark Sun. Though hey, I think he is still active.
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Apr 15, 2021 16:41
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I honestly like the 2e psionics handbook though I might be the only one. I feel like the main thing psionics needs is Haha, I remember hating Psionics in 2E! Though I also didn't have anything other than the core books so I was just trying to make sense out of what was in the monster manual at the time.
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Apr 15, 2021 16:52
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What do you think Waterdeep's equivalent of OSHA is?
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Apr 15, 2021 17:49
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theironjef posted:Also come on, DiTerlizzi is to Planescape what Brom is to Dark Sun. Though hey, I think he is still active. I follow him on twitter and i'm sure he'd be stoked to do more planescape art anytime. He's really proud of the awesome work he did for it the first time around.
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Apr 15, 2021 17:57
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Jonas Albrecht posted:What do you think Waterdeep's equivalent of OSHA is? Presumably a trade guild
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Apr 15, 2021 18:02
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Mr. Lobe posted:Presumably a trade guild The Extortioner's Guild "Someone could have a nasty fall off this staircase if the owner doesn't do a health and safety course!"
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Apr 15, 2021 18:05
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Rutibex posted:No one needs Dragonlance it is the same generic poo poo as every other setting It's weird because it kinda is and kinda isn't. It is maybe the most Tolkien-esque high fantasy setting they made, but it's also lacking in so many of the signature creatures and classes that have come to define generic D&D. And at the same time, it introduced a number of elements that have come to be part of generic D&D. It was really distinct from generic D&D when it was released, but those distinctions are a lot less significant in a world that has seen Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Planescape, and Eberron. I still have a real soft spot for Taladas and the Time of the Dragon boxed set. That part of the setting leaned hard into what made DL different from GH and FR--wild environments, very un-Tolkien elves and dwarfs (alongside very traditional ones), weird gnomes with weird gadgets (that worked), and Greco-Roman minotaur empires--and was a really good fantasy post-apocalypse for people who want something less dour and brutal than Dark Sun (and I say this as a huge Dark Sun fan). Hieronymous Alloy posted:The problem is that then settings like Dark Sun or Spelljammer which rely on psionics being different kinda collapse. You lose the post-apocalytpic feel of Dark Sun or the Spacepunk feel of Spelljammer because there isn't a "sciencey" element to the setting any more. For certain kinds of stories it really helps to have that contrast between the fantasy-magic and the science-magic and psionics is one of the handles that lets you get a grip on that kind of story. I don't think you lose the feel of either setting without psionics being distinct. Neither relies heavily on a "sciencey" feel to me. Indeed, I'd argue that Spelljammer is distinct and interesting because it takes such a "non-sciencey" approach to space adventures, rooting its "physics" in medieval notions of cosmology and basing its space propulsion systems on explicitly magical sources of power. The Spelljammer boxed set even predates The Complete Psionics Handbook by a couple years. Psionics is definitely more core to Dark Sun. The setting was made in part to feature it after all. But I feel psionics' importance to Dark Sun is less about having a sort of science-magic and more about having everyone be a bit of a Gamma World style mutant with the wild talents and stuff. theironjef posted:Also come on, DiTerlizzi is to Planescape what Brom is to Dark Sun. Though hey, I think he is still active. DiTerlizzi also contributed some important and gorgeous art for Dark Sun. Elves of Athas really comes to life thanks to him.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:16
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I was thinking it was more like trade guilds would handle working conditions for their given trade, but if you want to go a criminal angle with it, you could take inspiration from the history of organized crime interfacing with organized labor and say some faction of the thieves guild presses down their thumb on the side of the workers when things get bad in work sites in exchange for protection money
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Apr 15, 2021 18:16
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Bobby Deluxe posted:There was a bunch of psionics playtest stuff on D&D Beyond last year, but it's crap - you have a telekinesis feat which as you say is just reskinned mage hand, telepathy which is just reskinned message, a few new psychic damage spells and a weird set of UA subclasses that isn't there any more. It kind of sounds like something similar to Battlemaster Fighter might work- choose from a list of powers and you have dice to fuel them. The thing that trips me up is, how do you make archtypes for the class? I guess they could be more like the Paladin archtypes, which are all pretty similar and don't change the class too much, but that's kind of boring.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:49
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At least for Dark Sun, if they're not willing to add the abilities to characters without replacing the subclass or subrace, it's kind of a nonstarter. Having everybody trade their subclass to be Psychic Warriors and Soulknives is lame and erases 3/4 of all class options instead of expanding them. I guess they could expand Backgrounds to give wild talents, either in the proficiency slots, or the background feature slot? It seems like DMs completely fail to give a poo poo about background features and make everyone roll unexpected d20s anyway, when things are supposed to be automatic. Might as well give something crunchy in their place.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:57
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Jonas Albrecht posted:What do you think Waterdeep's equivalent of OSHA is? I'd take a look at the list of trade guilds and just build it out from there. The Carpenters', Roofers', & Plaisterers' Guild seems like it would have the right mix of officiousness and labor union pride. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Guilds_of_Waterdeep
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Apr 15, 2021 19:13
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DourCricket posted:Haha, I remember hating Psionics in 2E! Though I also didn't have anything other than the core books so I was just trying to make sense out of what was in the monster manual at the time. That just made me think of the Psionicists Handbook and all the other class handbooks they had for 2e. I poured over those for hours when I was a kid. I’d love to get some 2e sessions in again. I love all the loot and encounter tables.
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Apr 15, 2021 19:52
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denimgorilla posted:That just made me think of the Psionicists Handbook and all the other class handbooks they had for 2e. I poured over those for hours when I was a kid. I’d love to get some 2e sessions in again. I love all the loot and encounter tables. I went to my first con in 2019 (Origins) and signed up for a 2E game just for some nostalgia. When I got there and they handed me the character sheet and saw there was no THAC0, they just converted it to AB, I almost left in disgust Seriously though THAC0 is terrible even if I love its stupidity out of nostalgia
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Apr 15, 2021 20:20
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DourCricket posted:I went to my first con in 2019 (Origins) and signed up for a 2E game just for some nostalgia. When I got there and they handed me the character sheet and saw there was no THAC0, they just converted it to AB, I almost left in disgust Seriously though THAC0 is terrible even if I love its stupidity out of nostalgia i love old school stuff and OSR in general and i feel this immensely. its fun being the guy that everyone who plays baldurs gate pms to ask how thac0 works
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Apr 15, 2021 20:31
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Kaal posted:I'd take a look at the list of trade guilds and just build it out from there. The Carpenters', Roofers', & Plaisterers' Guild seems like it would have the right mix of officiousness and labor union pride. I like it.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:47
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DourCricket posted:I went to my first con in 2019 (Origins) and signed up for a 2E game just for some nostalgia. When I got there and they handed me the character sheet and saw there was no THAC0, they just converted it to AB, I almost left in disgust Seriously though THAC0 is terrible even if I love its stupidity out of nostalgia THAC0 is terrible and stupid and I wouldn’t change a thing about it. I’m glad they ditched it for 3e and beyond, though.
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Apr 15, 2021 22:35
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THAC0 was so bad that it took WotC sixteen years to get the math right when they moved to ascending AC. 
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Apr 16, 2021 07:37
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I just wish all the OSR retro clones would ditch THAC0. They all managed to remove the female strength limits so I know they could if they wanted to
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Apr 16, 2021 12:59
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An acquaintance of mine is putting together what's intended to be a one-shot game to see if he's got his migraines under control enough to go back to DMing full time. Game is a "Battle of the Bands" kind of story. We're supposed to start at 10th level, but at least half of our levels have to be in Bard, and we're all supposed to be different colleges. I'm thinking of making a satyr eloquence bard with a dip in noble genie warlock. What's a better level spread for that, bard 6/warlock 4 or bard 8/warlock 2?
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Apr 16, 2021 13:23
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Rutibex posted:I just wish all the OSR retro clones would ditch THAC0. They all managed to remove the female strength limits so I know they could if they wanted to many do. old school essentials(its a variant but officially supported and in statblocks), basic fantasy, and dungeon crawl classics are some major titles that do it off the top of my head i would also be remiss to not mention five torches deep, the OSR game built on 5es rules designed to get 5e only players to try an OSR style game W.T. Fits posted:An acquaintance of mine is putting together what's intended to be a one-shot game to see if he's got his migraines under control enough to go back to DMing full time. Game is a "Battle of the Bands" kind of story. We're supposed to start at 10th level, but at least half of our levels have to be in Bard, and we're all supposed to be different colleges.
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Apr 16, 2021 13:31
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W.T. Fits posted:An acquaintance of mine is putting together what's intended to be a one-shot game to see if he's got his migraines under control enough to go back to DMing full time. Game is a "Battle of the Bands" kind of story. We're supposed to start at 10th level, but at least half of our levels have to be in Bard, and we're all supposed to be different colleges. 4th level bard spells: Compulsion Confusion Dimension Door Freedom of Movement Greater Invisibility Hallucinatory Terrain Locate Creature Polymorph All these spells are super powerful, you don't want to miss out on 4th level bard spells. I would go with Bard 7/Warlock 3. Level 8 of Bard is pretty garbage, its just a feat level you are not getting any new class features. But level 3 for the Warlock gives you a Pact Boon and access to second level spells. Level 3 of Warlock is way better than a single feat. pog boyfriend posted:i would also be remiss to not mention five torches deep, the OSR game built on 5es rules designed to get 5e only players to try an OSR style game ooohhh I'm gonna check this out
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Apr 16, 2021 13:34
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pog boyfriend posted:it depends on what your goal is here ..? Mechanically speaking, I don't really have a goal, mostly because I'm not really sure what those classes are capable of doing at those levels. The main thing I was looking at was slam-dunking Persuasion and Deception checks with the level 3 eloquence bard feature that turns any die roll of 9 or lower into a 10. Not really sure if (or even how) I should lean into that harder, or just let the class feature do the heavy lifting on that front while using my other options to round myself out more. Rutibex posted:All these spells are super powerful, you don't want to miss out on 4th level bard spells. I would go with Bard 7/Warlock 3. Level 8 of Bard is pretty garbage, its just a feat level you are not getting any new class features. But level 3 for the Warlock gives you a Pact Boon and access to second level spells. Level 3 of Warlock is way better than a single feat. But is it worth missing out on an ASI if I was planning on using that ASI to bump my Charisma to 20?
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Apr 16, 2021 13:55
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W.T. Fits posted:But is it worth missing out on an ASI if I was planning on using that ASI to bump my Charisma to 20? This is from my perspective as a DM, but I never take a +1 statistical bonus over another class feature. I know personally how much fudging gets done behind the DM screen, so to me a +1 feels like a waste when I could be taking an extra warlock level giving me Book of Shadows and three more cantrips to cast at will. But this is obviously dependent on your DM and table.
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Apr 16, 2021 14:00
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W.T. Fits posted:Mechanically speaking, I don't really have a goal, mostly because I'm not really sure what those classes are capable of doing at those levels. The main thing I was looking at was slam-dunking Persuasion and Deception checks with the level 3 eloquence bard feature that turns any die roll of 9 or lower into a 10. Not really sure if (or even how) I should lean into that harder, or just let the class feature do the heavy lifting on that front while using my other options to round myself out more. lv 8 bard pros: 4th level spell slot, ASI. at 4th level bard spell you can get charm monster, compulsion, greater invisibility, and polymorph (for things that fit your build). lv 4 warlock pros: ASI, pact boon(likely pact of the tome ..? pact of the chain will give you a familiar though), +2 warlock spells known, warlock slot level 2 7/3 to me is no good as the ASI is just too good to pass up here. 6/4 is the more versatile and rounded of the options. 8/2 has the most raw power.
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Apr 16, 2021 14:07
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The Three Sources, Three Emanations and Nine Aspects of Magic The power of magic is borne in the blood. This has been confirmed through the ages by pagans, heretics and Satanists who value the blood of spellcasters above all others. Such practices are now outlawed, though the historical records of the pre-Christian Romans and Greeks continue to be studied. As understood by modern philosophers, this magic can be manifested in nine different ways, called Aspects. This depends upon the conjunction of both the Source the spellcaster seeks to harness, and the Emanation of the Monad with which the spellcaster resonates. The Emanations of the Monad are thus: - The Mind, called by the ancients Nous, whereby the spellcaster is in direct intellectual discussion with the Source. - The Soul, called by the ancients Psyche, whereby the spellcaster is in unconscious spiritual harmony with the Source. - The Nature, called by the ancients Physis, whereby the spellcaster physically embodies the Source's conjunction with the Emanation of the Monad. The Sources are thus: - Divine intervention from Heaven such as by Angels, called by the ancients Theurgia, and today Theurgy. - Natural magic, such as laws governing life and matter, called by the ancients Magia Naturalis. - Satanic influnce from Hell such as by demons, called by the ancients Goetia. The Aspects of Theurgy, the most celebrated of Christendom, are thus: - The Emanation of Nous in conjunction with Theurgy is the Aspect of the Wizard, who seeks understanding of the hereafter through the summoning of Angelic beings, the observation of Heavenly bodies, through rigorous debate with his peers, and with the testing of hypothesis against argument in experiments. This is truly the greatest Aspect, as evidenced by the research carried out in the universities on the subject of magic. - The Emanation of Psyche in conjunction with Theurgy is the Aspect of the Cleric, who seeks spiritual harmony with the Divine, and shares its fulfilment with others in turn. - The Emanation of Physis in conjunction with Theurgy is the Aspect of the Paladin, who is imbued by God's grace to smite sinners and protect the innocent. The Aspects of Magia Naturalis are thus: - The Emanation of Nous in conjunction with Magia Naturalis is the Aspect of the Artificer, sometimes called Alchemy by the Mussulmen, who seeks intellectual understanding of the natural world, its laws, and how to magically alter those laws according to the needs of civilised peoples. Artificers are the foundations upon which are founded the great manufacturies, merchant navies and banking houses of Europe. - The Emanation of Psyche in conjunction with Magia Naturalis is the Aspect of the Druid, who seeks spiritual harmony with nature. This is thankfully dying out in Europe with the disappearance of all but the most stubborn sects of pagans and tree worshippers. - The Emanation of Physis in conjunction with Magia Naturalis is the Aspect of the Ranger, a barbaric waste of magical talent. Lastly we reach Goetia, the most accursed Source of magic, whose Aspects are thus: - The Emanation of Nous in conjunction with Goetia is the Aspect of the Warlock, who communes directly with demons, seeking power and wealth for selfish reasons, and plots the downfall of Christendom whether knowingly or through recklessness. Warlocks are abominations in every civilised land, and are its greatest threat owing to their intellect. - The Emanation of Psyche in conjunction with Goetia is the Aspect of the Sorcerer, whose resonations with the Satanic despoil his soul. He may seek to hide his darkness, but he is usually unable, and is liable to destroy himself and those around him in a blaze of Hellfire when confronted by Inquisitors and Witch Hunters. - The Emanation of Physis in conjunction with Goetia is the Aspect of the Bard. These sordid individuals are thought to be the progeny of Satanists who consorted with Succubi, and are able to escape the notice of Inquisitors and Witch Hunters thanks to the sins of those around them. What is one more fornicating liar in this fallen world? Only their unique talents give them away, so they forge for themselves doctorates and seek patrons to protect them. The Spymasters of the courts of Europe are surely not Bards, despite rumours to the contrary; Christian kings would never stoop so low, damning their immortal souls merely to spy on their rivals.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:08
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That is some rad poo poo. I always like to see how the different classes are put into settings. How about races in your setting?
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Apr 17, 2021 03:26
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So I've been putting more thought now into the 5e Hades inspired roguelite megadungeon campaign idea. I am thinking of the following. 1. On the start of a run, each player picks one special boon (these are stronger than common/uncommon/rare boons and meant to give the player something to think about how they want their build to go. They get two randomly assigned and can pick 1. 2. There are 100 floors to the megadungeon, of different locales, ecologies, etc. 2a. On each floor there's at least one midboss, and 1 floor boss. 2b. Defeating the floor boss grants a boon, you have three to choose from and pick 1; boons are roughly equivalent to an ASI/Feat with some randomness thrown in. I.e instead of "gain 2 strength" it can be "gain 1d4 strength" or "gain 1d4 extra attacks (this stacks with any extra attacks granted by your class or another boon). 2c. Boons are divided into rarities of common, uncommon, rare, and legendary. A legendary boon can be "gain 1d3 legendary resistances a day", a common one might be "gain slashing resistance" or a proficiency etc. 3. Enemies grant "yellow crystals" which can be exchanges for gear, items, etc, or to level up. Special enemies, midbosses, chests, floor bosses give purple crystals, which can be exchanged for additional boons or reset your choices of boons 4. When you die your boons all reset; the items and all crystals you were carrying are dropped; they are collected and distributed to the enemies that killed you or to enemies that happen to wander over them (leveling them up and making them stronger than normal). 5. Crystals, gear, and other items can be stored at special locations aka bonfires (or you need to activate the special elevator or Diablo-esque teleportation rune to travel back to town). 6. There's a special item, called "Shards" which grant a boost, increasing damage, health, and base stats for a number of hours, but also makes the group a target for special outsiders who hunt the Shard users. Using a shard takes 10 minutes (so it cannot be used in battle). I'm mostly worried about the "death and reset" portion, I think dungeon delving and being mechanically focused is probably potentially very fun; especially stacking a bunch of extra feats on your character and seeing what whacky mechanical poo poo you can get away with. But resetting losing your boons I'm worried about how to keep this fun. I can make it less of a hassle through keeping the floors from randomizing so they keep the information they gleaned about floors they've already explored to more easily traverse them later, and are likewise much stronger in later runs where they may have backup gear as well to make their way back down/up with. But then I run into the issue that retreading old ground, even if its fast, might be boring. Bit of a pickle. But if I randomize it, then they lose the ability to retain their "memory" between runs? What I think I can do to alleviate it is slightly randomize encounters; maybe there's stuff out of frame that happens, like monsters eating other monsters getting stronger, so one run there's a million kobolds and in a different run they're all gone because a giant snake happened to swing by and ate most of them. I think I can make that fair as long as I telegraph ahead of time that there's a bit of a living ecology happening (like in made in abyss or rainworld(?)) and things might not be exactly the same each run so they stay on their toes. I am also a little unsure about the role of elevator/teleporter shortcuts. Currently I am thinking of tying boons to defeating bosses or specific enemies instead of on level up, so they can always gain more boons than they have levels because that sounds the most hilarious. Also if I have it so that their level doesn't reset when they die then I can't really attach boons to level can I? But if they can skip floors to get back to where they were, do I let them? I think I could easily make it so they have to defeat the floor boss to use the elevator/portal for that floor, which would prevent them from skipping back to where they left off. But on the other hand, if I do let them skip, that would introduce an element of player choice and risk vs reward. Either I need a different source for what provides boons that is somewhat predictable so I can balance future floors to the expected Level of Brokenness of their characters or I dunno. I guess leaving it as a choice can't really hurt, maybe make it so that if they skip a floor and defeat a floor boss that they aren't supposed to, they get extra boons or an upgraded boon? I dunno. Thoughts? Part of my problem is I think I'm settling in for designing what is probably supposed to be a somewhat grindy game, and I am unsure if I am being too cautious in avoiding making it too grindy or if I should make it MORE GRINDY (i.e resetting them to level 1 on death with catch up mechanics to speed up level up to where they were)
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Apr 17, 2021 06:57
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Raenir Salazar posted:So I've been putting more thought now into the 5e Hades inspired roguelite megadungeon campaign idea. The idea isn't going to run, you are never going to finish the work it would need, and players are going to be bored with after reaching floor 7 with one death. I'd suggest turning the campaign into a more of a persona 3 like idea. You have the megadungeon, with the plot critical goal at the end, while also having a base/town. Every floor once completed is finished, and can be skipped, while a wipe restarts them on their current floor, and have one use long rest points to use depending on the size of the floor, to mitigate the party getting steamed by encounters. The dungeon should be between 8-13 levels deep, so you all can actually finish it. The 'town' should be a like a decompression from the dungeon, where the large (or small) amount of roleplaying takes place. You end up here after finishing every floor, dying, or taking a break at a rest point. Actions and decisions in the dungeon or the town should have a effect on the other, from time to time. Dying should not be a common thing, and at a guess the aim should be around less then a third of floors with a wipe when everything is finished. Resetting the floor should let the party feel smart when they face a old encounter with new information, or try completely new things when interacting with the floor's factions. The randomized element should be the floor's layout,corridors, simple rooms etc and a death should change this, while shuffling 1 or 2 ' fixed tiled' encounters out that didn't work, keeping the interesting ones, and adding more on theme if needed. Adding boons does nothing to help the game. You will make the one player just steamroll everything once he lands on something that breaks the games math that interacts with a class ability, or everyone will gain enough boons that to challenge them you are going to have to have 3 hour combats with bloated HP enemies. Let them find magic items, give them appropriate abilities for the PC's level, and adjust as you go down floors.
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Apr 17, 2021 11:30
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Raenir Salazar posted:Thoughts? I have a few thoughts on this: 1) what are you going to do when a single party member dies but the rest of the party survives a fight? 2) This sounds like a 100% combat campaign. I personally would hate this, I can play Path of Exile on my own time 3) Do you think people are going to enjoy dying and resetting their progress on a 100 floor mega dungeon? I've ran Undermountain and World Largest Dungeon, the fun of a mega dungeon is exploring new content. Also mega dungeons are not just combat, there are huge numbers of trick and trap rooms as well as non-combat type encounters. 4) A big part of the fun of a megadungeon (or any D&D game) is the permanent effect your players have on the world. You can look back at a trail of blood and think "that was me I did that!" when the dungeon is random and resets constantly this fun is lost. 5) Are all these extra death mechanics going to encourage you (the DM) to kill the party more often? Cuz thats not fun. Basically what I'm trying to say is I would personally not do it this way. Maybe do a campaign where the party is trying to escape from hell in a mega dungeon, but don't do this resetting dungeon or rogue-like death system. You can have the greek gods helping them too, giving boons along the way. But don't reset the players progress like Hades. Its not appropriate for D&D. Just grab Ruins of Undermountain, that has more then enough content you will not need to randomize anything! https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16785/The-Ruins-of-Undermountain-2e https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16789/Ruins-of-Undermountain-II-The-Deep-Levels-2e Rutibex fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 11:42
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I can’t think of a game less similar to D&D than Hades.
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Apr 17, 2021 16:26
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I mean my purpose is very much to play a roguelike in 5e and is why I am even considering DM'ing for my group; the megadungeon is just in service of that. The advice that constitutes "don't play a roguelike" I think is not getting at what I actually want to do. quote:1) what are you going to do when a single party member dies but the rest of the party survives a fight? The issue of what happens if just one player dies is a good point though, and brings into focus the question as to how a wipe should happen. But at a minimum its standard to let downed or "character not available" players play NPC's in our group. quote:2) This sounds like a 100% combat campaign. I personally would hate this, I can play Path of Exile on my own time I already asked them if they'd be up for a mechanically/combat focused and experimental gameplay focused campaign. In my group generally there's some back and forth to discuss campaign expectations before it starts. But it wouldn't be only combat encounters; puzzles, tricky traps, etc would all be there. quote:4) A big part of the fun of a megadungeon (or any D&D game) is the permanent effect your players have on the world. You can look back at a trail of blood and think "that was me I did that!" when the dungeon is random and resets constantly this fun is lost. This would be an argument in favour of not randomizing the dungeon on a reset, or having your character reset back to level 1. quote:3) Do you think people are going to enjoy dying and resetting their progress on a 100 floor mega dungeon? I've ran Undermountain and World Largest Dungeon, the fun of a mega dungeon is exploring new content. Also mega dungeons are not just combat, there are huge numbers of trick and trap rooms as well as non-combat type encounters. I believe I mentioned already that this part concerned me and how I could go about to alleviate it without contradicting the point of a megadungeon. One thing I was thinking of is that the floors might be large enough that you can choose to go down a different path earlier on while later in the campaign breeze through already explored parts later on. quote:5) Are all these extra death mechanics going to encourage you (the DM) to kill the party more often? Cuz thats not fun. I don't think so, as I already implied it's more of an ecology. I procedurally determine the content ahead of time and between resets, so I'm not going out of my way to kill them. quote:Dying should not be a common thing, and at a guess the aim should be around less then a third of floors with a wipe when everything is finished. Resetting the floor should let the party feel smart when they face a old encounter with new information, or try completely new things when interacting with the floor's factions. The randomized element should be the floor's layout,corridors, simple rooms etc and a death should change this, while shuffling 1 or 2 ' fixed tiled' encounters out that didn't work, keeping the interesting ones, and adding more on theme if needed. So you would suggest resetting the layout but not the encounters (except a few either at random or didn't work to add an element of freshness)? quote:Adding boons does nothing to help the game. You will make the one player just steamroll everything once he lands on something that breaks the games math that interacts with a class ability, or everyone will gain enough boons that to challenge them you are going to have to have 3 hour combats with bloated HP enemies. Let them find magic items, give them appropriate abilities for the PC's level, and adjust as you go down floors. I don't really intend to bloat HP as a means of compensating for the strength of the players; I found as a player HP chunky enemies annoying especially as a spellcaster with limited resources. And I'm even considering looking up the house rules that speed up encounters like the ones that double damage dice and what have you. The way I am going to approach difficulty is that there's a predetermined difficulty curve that rises linearly with floors. Basically there's a small spike of difficulty every five floors with each floor having some random number of localized difficulty spikes with a accompanying risk vs reward. I actually don't intend to increase HP from MM levels at all (except maybe for when I determine enemies to have HP gauges for Phases so there, but only a small amount and move the HP around), but I do intend to randomize the enemies abilities. So floor 5 goblins might be lightning resistant, floor 6 goblins might have a poison bite; floor 10 goblins might have armor and +1 swords with a low level cleric or spellcaster leading them etc. Floor 20 there's a dragon. Floor 50 every room has a dragon! (Probably not, but to get across the way Skyrim/Oblivion starts replacing enemies with more difficult ones as you level up, but in my case its tied to floor). So there might be a floor where enemies have lightning damage die but are weak to fire; so ideally the really difficult floors should have an exploitable weakness you can prepare around. But really the whole point is to have fun and see different ways of people are able to break the game. Pollyanna posted:I can’t think of a game less similar to D&D than Hades. I mean, isn't the whole point of D&D is that you can do anything within the limit of your imagination? What does it matter? The mechanics are just a medium.
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Apr 17, 2021 16:30
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Raenir Salazar posted:I mean my purpose is very much to play a roguelike in 5e doesnt work. sorry. you cant do it. you can try to fit this square peg into a round hole but it will never bear fruit. 5e is fundamentally not capable of creating that experience in a satisfying way and your results will end up being bitterly disappointing. i am working on a similar project right now which is still in infancy so i sympathize but you are looking into the wrong type of ttrpg if you want to make a roguelike experience
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Apr 17, 2021 16:39
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I'm still going to do it though and if it doesn't work out it's no big deal to end things and try again with a more conventional idea. The whole thing I am contextualizing as an experimental campaign to me and the group.
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Apr 17, 2021 16:42
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Fair enough, good luck.
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Apr 17, 2021 17:01
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm still going to do it though and if it doesn't work out it's no big deal to end things and try again with a more conventional idea. The whole thing I am contextualizing as an experimental campaign to me and the group. Have you ever played The Enchanted Cave (1 or 2)? Sounds almost identical to what you're planning. Version 1 is a free flash game on Kongregate and elsewhere. 2 is cheap on Steam. If it's something you and your players want to try, go for it. If it doesn't work, you all went in with your eyes open. Who knows, you may all have a blast. Good luck!
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Apr 17, 2021 17:06
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I mean I'd still appreciate advice to make the idea better as long as it doesn't abandon its pretext. Deteriorata posted:Have you ever played The Enchanted Cave (1 or 2)? Sounds almost identical to what you're planning. Version 1 is a free flash game on Kongregate and elsewhere. 2 is cheap on Steam. I haven't played it no, are you saying to take a look at it for inspiration?
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Apr 17, 2021 17:22
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