bobjr posted:

The Michael Jordan story I always heard was his year off Basketball to play baseball was a stealth ban because of his gambling.

C. Everett Koop posted:

Well, here's one that never fails to blow everyone's mind when it gets told. I'm sure I'm not the first to put it out there either, but if you've ever wondered the lengths Michael Jordan would go to humiliate someone and prove that he was the best, here's one small step down that path.

Before his second and final season with the Wizard, Jordan was pitched an ad idea by Gatorade that had him playing a younger version of himself, which Jordan signed off on. The spot, entitled 23 vs. 39 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL6pYmybB9Y), was a technological marvel at the time, using face-mapping technology to make a younger Jordan for the current MJ to ball again. The face wasn't the hard part, it was finding the rest of the body. They needed a 6'-6" black male, slender build with some muscle, who could play basketball to a respectable degree but wasn't already in the league or in college (even with the different face the NCAA wouldn't allow an athlete of theirs in a commercial unless they were the ones profiting off of it), and who would be available to shoot a commercial around Jordan's schedule.

In the end they found Kevin "Special K" Daley, who had played for Azusa Pacific University and was kicking around the lower levels. Daley was brought in, made up, and went through several of Jordan's dunks to serve as B-roll and a test for the cameras and lights. As Daley dunked, Jordan and Grover, along with a small entourage for Jordan, entered the gym. Jordan saw a guy wearing his jersey, doing his dunks, and was not happy.

However, he was professional at first, and they shot the staredown stuff, then a couple of staged baskets. The director wanted the two to be even, so he had older Jordan make a play, followed by the younger one. Wanting to use nat sound, he encouraged some mild trash talk, and after Daley made his scripted shot and mildly taunted Jordan, that flipped the switch. Jordan grabbed the ball, slammed it down on the court, and said they were playing one-on-one for real. And keeping score.

Everyone panicked. The director said that the cameras had to be moved for each planned shot, Jordan told him to move them after each game. His entourage called David Falk, who basically gave Jordan carte blanche to do what he wanted. The Gatorade execs were concerned about Jordan hurting himself but they weren't about to say no. And Daley was going to get a chance to go one-on-one with his idol from him growing up.

He shouldn't have. Once the games started, Jordan beat the living poo poo out of this kid. Daley went to drive, the bigger Jordan physically bullied and bumped him, hacking away whenever Daley tried to take a weak jumper. Daley tried to get an outside game going, but Jordan called him a coward and physically bodied up on him. On offense, Jordan did whatever he wanted as Daley bit on every fake and Jordan played him like a fiddle. And talked trash. Oh did he ever talk trash.

Jordan was already known for being one of the best trash talkers in the game, but surrounded by cameras, mics, and high rollers in expensive courtside seats, he kept it mostly PG-13. But in a closed environment with someone he felt was disrespecting him (of course Jordan did), he unloaded on Daley with both barrels and kept it up. Crew members, who are no strangers to salty language, said it was a verbal beatdown they had never seen before. Every other word out of Jordan's mouth was either "motherfucker" or "human being", and Jordan never let up.

They played about six or seven games and Jordan easily won them all, Daley scoring maybe six or seven points total and getting shutout several times. As they moved the cameras, Jordan would ask questions of Daley, only to insult and curse him out upon hearing the answer. After Daley stopped responding, Jordan increased the heat even more. Towards the end, he tried to rip the Bulls jersey off of Daley's back, saying that Daley didn't deserve to be wearing it. No one dared to do anything lest Michael's steroid-enhanced wrath be directed towards them. Finally, once the director said he had all the shots he needed, Jordan grabbed the ball, autographed it, and then threw it to the other end of the gym, screaming at Daley to go chase it down and get the gently caress out of his motherfucking gym.

The problem was that they weren't done. The director had all the action shots he needed, but they still needed to do the sitdown at the end where the UNC Jordan showed up. Jordan iced down courtside, still steaming, still letting everyone know who was king. When it was time to shoot, Jordan plopped into his seat, but no one could find Daley. It took them 15 minutes before they found Daley sobbing in his car and brought him in to shoot the final scene. Daley sat down, the lights went on, Jordan flashed that charm, the director yelled cut, and Jordan told Daley to get the gently caress out of his gym again, which Daley did.

The good news is that Daley wasn't permanently scared off of basketball; he's been with the Globetrotters since '04. Gatorade, however, destroyed most of the footage and has only used videotape of Jordan for their promotions since.

GunFondler42069 posted:

oh my god

i'm me and that disturbed me

DC Murderverse posted:

This is a great opportunity to post one of my all-time favorite SA threads.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547828&perpage=40&noseen=1

A sampling of the wonderful content within:

DC Murderverse posted:

I highly encourage reading the whole thread to get the full story

GunFondler42069 posted:

oh my god

i'm me and that disturbed me

Bored As gently caress posted:

Can we get a TL; DR on that?

Oceanlife posted:

Welcome to the Michael Jordan Steroid Discussion Thread

This thread exists to help facilitate mature and reasonable discussion on what is often a controversial issue. In the past decade questions have been raised from multiple sources about the legitimacy of Jordans physique. Did the ultra competitive Jordan use steroids, HGH or testosterone enhancement to get an advantage? Under the tight media control of David Stern the NBA avoided the performance enhancing drug scandals that plagued Major League Baseball, Football and even cycling; all the while maintaining the weakest testing policy in professional sports. Many people simply asked why the NBA was so scared to test their top athletes if they had nothing to hide, but these questions were ignored.

Now even though many sports heroes from the 1990's like Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire as well as current NBA players like Hedo Turkoglu have admitted to using steroids, that does not necessary mean Michael Jordan abused them as well. This is not a witch hunt, merely a discussion. In this thread we will provide evidence to help the posters reach their own conclusions as to whether Michael Jordan indeed used steroids to help him compete at the highest level.

Michael Jordan's Alleged Descent into Steroid Use:

Michael Jordan was always an elite athlete from his days at UNC and like many basketball players of the era like Dr J and Connie Hawkisn he possessed a strong but slim frame that was considered ideal for a basketball player:

Take notice of the normal sized head, full hairline, and slim arms.



After a championship at UNC and college player of the year honors Michael Jordan dropped out of school to pursue a career in the NBA. He started off his first year very strongly, averaging 28.2 points and winning rookie of the year honors. Within three years he was the leading scorer in the NBA and averaging over 37 points per game. Billboards adorned his name, he received the first ultra lucrative show deal for his Air Jordan sponsorship and was one of the most recognizable basketball players in the world. Then, his career stalled.

Despite his high scoring and crowd pleasing dunks Michael Jordan was not a champion. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were in the finals almost every year and considered the #1 and #2 players by knowledgeable fans. This was a constant frustration to Jordan who wanted to be the best. As Bird and Johnson got older Michael Jordan (MJ) knew it was his chance to shine. Except one thing stood in his way: the toughest most physical team in the NBA, the Detroit Pistons.

NBA Champion Detroit Pistons


Contrasting to Michael's "Me first" style the Pistons played the game the right way. They passed to the open man, hustled for loose balls, and played solid defense. But above all else they were physically the strongest team in league history. This made them the most dangerous team in the NBA and they won the Eastern Conference almost every year and two Championships. Their biggest strength was also Michael's greatest enemy, a passing and scoring wizard named Isiah Thomas.

NBA's two top guards show mutual respect before a playoff game


Isiah Thomas hated Jordan's selfish style of play. When Jordan was a rookie Isiah tried to impress the need for team play on the ball hogging young Jordan by passing to the other All Stars. This infuriated Jordan who swore revenge in the post season. However every year in the play offs the Pistons proved too strong for the Bulls to overcome. High flying basketball may win games in the regular season but playoff basketball in the 80's was known for strength and physical play. After years of losing, Jordan enlisted the help of controversial trainer Tim Grover in 1989 who immediately told Jordan he needed to bulk up if he wanted to survive a series with the Pistons. Jordan listened.

Secretive Athletic Trainer and Founder of "Attack Athletics" Tim Grover


This is when we believe Jordan was introduced to steroids. As he said to Sports Illustrated that summer:


Jordan "made it happen" and worked out extremely hard that off season. Hitting the weights everyday, guided by Tim Grover and boosted by his new cocktail of performance enhancing drugs. He entered the season much bulkier, looking more like a power forward than a perimeter player. It's then we start seeing the first effects of steroid use: Hair loss.

Jordan experiencing rapid hair loss after first summer of alleged steroid use


Fellow players were shocked when they saw Jordan who at 27 completely changed his body from the first 26 years of his life. Some claim this was just from a new training regiment while others feel this is the most stunning proof of performance enhancement. Whatever Jordan did worked, and his new strength made him impossible to defend. Combined with the emergence of the Chicago Bulls role players Jordan won three straight tainted championships from 91-93. However, steroids were slowly changing Jordan as a person. He began fighting with team mates, saying profanities on the basketball court in front of young fans and developed a crippling gambling addiction that likely stemmed from the same addictive personality disorder that led him to steroid abuse. This is known in gym circles as typical "roid rage" and was documented in the best selling novel, The Jordan Rules.

Then came the next chapter of his life, he suddenly retired and played baseball. This also put him into one of the most steroid infused club houses in professional sports, the Chicago White Sox farm system.

Jordan batting .202 for the Birmingham Barons during the hayday of Baseball's steroid era


It was here that the student became the teacher. Surrounded by minor league players who were desperate to succeed, Jordan introduced them to Tim Grover's advanced steroid cycles. Players like Chris Snopek, Matt Karchner, Steve Gajkowski, Chris Tremie, Doug Brady and Larry Thomas all took Jordan's lessons seriously and were able to make it to the Major Leagues a few years later. Karchner in particular became Jordan's apostle for many years, spreading steroid secrets to the Chicago Cubs. Having a crisis of conscience he later exposed steroids in the locker room, though he protected Jordan


Unable to make it in the majors and two years removed from making an NBA income, Jordan decided to return to the NBA for one last run.

Now bald and noticeably bulkier Michael Jordan upon returning to the NBA in 1996


Jordan returned for the end of the 1995 season and realized his team had changed. They were still good, but they weren't strong enough to win a championship. They were eliminated in the playoffs and that summer Jordan vowed to not let it happen again. For the first time he was going to reveal his training secrets to two select teammates: Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman.

Pippen and Rodman were two very thin but very active and athletic players prior to the 1996 season. Notice their physiques prior to training with Michael Jordan


Jordan had one rule for his two young disciples: Win at all costs. He had seen how his training had turned mediocre minor league players into legitimate MLB starters and he knew if he used it on players as talented as Pippen and Rodman they would be unstoppable. Training began that summer and in 1996 Jordan had two super star teammates with bodies that were now cut from steroid infused granite.

Noticeably more muscular Rodman and Pippen


And so began the NBA Bulls 72-10 NBA Championship season. After winning three more championships Jordan retired for a second time. But Pippen and Rodman were both different people. Under the influence of steroids Pippen would instigate fights and became so self centered and narcissistic that he wouldn't even tip his waiters, becoming known as "no tippin Pippen". Rodman was in countless fights with Karl Malone and even kicked an innocent cameraman during a game. Jordan won his second threepeat but at what cost?

I wish this was the end of the story, but there is one more chapter in MJ's cycle of steroid abuse: The Washington Wizards

An older MJ showing puffy muscle definition caused by retained water after a heavy steroid cycle


Jordan needed a training partner to prepare for the season and was introduced to Ron Artest. Ron at the time was a young rookie who wasn't even old enough to legally drink. But he was tough and provided the enthusiasm Jordan required. Sadly, Jordan's influence rubbed off on Artest.

Ron Artest as a young rookie


Ron Artest after training with Michael Jordan


Ron Artest wasn't mentally prepared for the heavy cycles Jordan introduced him to. This backfired in a way MJ never expected when in a fit of roid rage Ron Artest broke two of Jordan's ribs. Artest later went on to attack a fan during a basketball game in an event known as "Malice in the Palace". That's the risk with introducing steroid to a young person, you never know how they are going to react.

During his time with the Wizards only one player resisted Jordan's controversial methods, a young #1 pick named Kwame Brown. This infuriated Jordan to the point he would use sexually explicit and degrading language towards the 18 year old Brown causing psychological damage that prevented him from becoming the Next Garnett he was projected to be. Eventually even steroids were not enough to keep MJ's game effective at an NBA level. His shooting percentage was falling to almost below .400 and he had to beg Vince Carter to let him start in his last all star game. He was clearly finished. And after failing to make the playoffs for two straight seasons Michael Jordan retired for good, leaving behind a tainted legacy.

Conclusion: Remember this thread is for mature discussion. If anyone has additional evidence of Jordan using steroids or first or second hand accounts please post them in this thread. The sanctity of the game is paramount. Even though many of us idolized Jordan as naive youths, we owe it to the future generations to know the truth about the player sometimes referred to as the greatest of all time.

DC Murderverse posted:

the stories in this thread are mostly not real, including all of C. Everett Koop’s.

Bust Rodd posted:

I’ve never been able to figure out why I would take Kratom instead of like 6 other drugs, many of which are also naturally occurring flora. Happy it makes people happy, I did it like 3-4 times and was like “whoa ok hippies like this? Yikes!” but I get why it might appeal to certain peeps.

Bust Rodd posted:

I’ve never been able to figure out why I would take Kratom instead of like 6 other drugs, many of which are also naturally occurring flora. Happy it makes people happy, I did it like 3-4 times and was like “whoa ok hippies like this? Yikes!” but I get why it might appeal to certain peeps.

DC Murderverse posted:

Edit: also I started listening to My Momma Told Me after Langston Kerman was on and it’s a good listen if you’re interested in conspiracy theories. It doesn’t always stay perfectly on topic but it’s always good conversation and some of these theories I’ve never heard before!

Everett False posted:

As someone whose ASMR gets triggered by woo-woo bullshit, energy work always makes me wonder how many people go to someone to get paid attention to in a touchy-feely non-sexual way with a soothing voice, get weird brain tingles, and go, "I can feel the energy! It's working!!" It has to have happened at least once, right?

Bust Rodd posted:

As someone who is fully reiki certified, this is 90% of clients. The remaining 10% smell terrible.

I got certified lvl 1-2 after college, and then took my lvl 3 cert a few years later. I’m super into meditation and related personal therapies, but I don’t believe in crystals or magic or astrology, I just believe in the healing power of the human body and I think reiki triggers psychosomatic healing states in certain kinds of people and I wanted to explore that. You meet charlatans ALL THE TIME, but woo-woo people are all HUGE gossips so you only have to worry about the ones who come into the community already rich, because they will sue you.

Shinji2015 posted:

Same. I listened to the OJ Simpson episode and it was the first time that I ever heard about the theory that Simpson's son was the real murderer. Dunno if I subscribe to that one, but it definitely seems possible.

It's a good podcast

Everett False posted:

As someone whose ASMR gets triggered by woo-woo bullshit, energy work always makes me wonder how many people go to someone to get paid attention to in a touchy-feely non-sexual way with a soothing voice, get weird brain tingles, and go, "I can feel the energy! It's working!!" It has to have happened at least once, right?

DC Murderverse posted:

I think Robert Evans might be the only person I’ve ever heard in any media talk about kratom. Which is probably good because if dumb people paid any real attention to it I’m sure it would be precursor to regulating it or banning it. Which would not be good.

some plague rats posted:

Someone hasn't been listening to the only good podcast, Street Fight Radio Cum Town

Bust Rodd posted:

some plague rats posted:

This absolutely does not seem like the right venue to get into my feelings about cum town and the men who host it

Marsupial Ape posted:

Aren't they a spin off of that podcast that tricks Twitter communists into believing donating to their Patreon is a valid form of praxis? Goddam, that's good work, if you can get it.

some plague rats posted:

Nah dude it's explicitly not that

https://twitter.com/AdamFriedland/status/860576794524749824?s=20

some plague rats posted:

Nah dude it's explicitly not that

https://twitter.com/AdamFriedland/status/860576794524749824?s=20