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tsob posted:The mid-season trailer from a few days ago has shots of Walker throwing his shield and Karli kicking it away. So he's definitely in the next episode. I presume the serum gives him accelerated healing as well as strength and durability. I'm pretty sure Cap healed fast at some point too. Whoops. You would be correct.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:40
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VagueRant posted:I know we're not supposed to think about how the magic shield works but how does the magic shield work and how can a non-super powered person with a non-robotic arm possibly use it? I was thinking that it should probably shatter Sam's arm but it's vibranium so it could be argued that it absorbs the energy?
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Apr 16, 2021 21:41
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tsob posted:I presume the serum gives him accelerated healing as well as strength and durability. I'm pretty sure Cap healed fast at some point too. IIRC, theres a scene in one of the Cap movies where he laments that he cant get drunk anymore because of the Serum's effects
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Apr 16, 2021 21:41
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live with fruit posted:I was thinking that it should probably shatter Sam's arm but it's vibranium so it could be argued that it absorbs the energy? Sam swole.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:43
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Was disappointed at the color scheme in the mid-credits scene tbh.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:49
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Marsupial Ape posted:They want him in a hole where he can't point at generals and politicians and say, "Hydra, Hydra, not Hydra, Hydra..." and so on.  That got a laugh out of me, but it's actually very,very true.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:50
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it dawns on me that they jailed Isiah for doing the same thing that made Steve Captain America in earnest. that's just an incredible bit of storytelling
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Apr 16, 2021 21:56
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live with fruit posted:I was thinking that it should probably shatter Sam's arm but it's vibranium so it could be argued that it absorbs the energy? In the comics it's this, it doesn't conduct kinetic energy at all which... is unscientific comic nonsense and not even consistently portrayed but whatever it works however it needs to.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:57
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Marsupial Ape posted:How did Zemo's head not explode last episode when Walker bounced the shield off his temple? This thing either buries it self in concrete or lightly taps off human heads, no matter how hard it is thrown.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:00
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VagueRant posted:I'm STILL trying to figure out if the reveal in episode 4 that Walker had taken the serum was supposed to be when he embedded the shield in a concrete wall OR when he bent the pipe with his bare hands, I think the shield in the concrete is meant to make you go "Huh?" and then it's confirmed with the pipe.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:02
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Just Andi Now posted:I think the shield in the concrete is meant to make you go "Huh?" and then it's confirmed with the pipe. That's how I read it. Plus, that's when it was confirmed for the people he was fighting, the shield in the wall the dude was running away and could have just not seen it. As soon as he bent the pipe the dude reacted like "Oh poo poo, this is bad".
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Apr 16, 2021 22:06
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TheTofuShop posted:IIRC, theres a scene in one of the Cap movies where he laments that he cant get drunk anymore because of the Serum's effects Karli got shot and was fine later in the same episode last week too.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:08
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Carlosologist posted:it dawns on me that they jailed Isiah for doing the same thing that made Steve Captain America in earnest. that's just an incredible bit of storytelling 
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Apr 16, 2021 22:08
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Carlosologist posted:it dawns on me that they jailed Isiah for doing the same thing that made Steve Captain America in earnest. that's just an incredible bit of storytelling This is the one bit I don't like in Truth (the comic) Isaiah's final mission literally has him leading Jewish women into a gas chamber by mistake as he tries to free them from a concentration camp
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Apr 16, 2021 22:09
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Gaz-L posted:This is the one bit I don't like in Truth (the comic) Isaiah's final mission literally has him leading Jewish women into a gas chamber by mistake as he tries to free them from a concentration camp Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Apr 16, 2021 22:24
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Gaz-L posted:This is the one bit I don't like in Truth (the comic) Isaiah's final mission literally has him leading Jewish women into a gas chamber by mistake as he tries to free them from a concentration camp Not exactly he's chased into the gas chamber, and tells the women going in to chamber to "run away and hide", then goes in and is surprised by the women already inside what he now realizes is a gas chamber as the door is sealed behind, the women assume he's been sent in to have his way with them as a final indignity, and he can't get the door open because they attack him it's hosed up and horrifying, very much stayed with me.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:28
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"Hey man, the entire country is pretty pissed at you for breaking out our most hated war criminal from prison and then fighting us. Don't come back to Wakanda for a long, long time." "Ok, that seems pretty straightforward. Can you you develop, test, and build a new vibranium flight suit for Sam in like 3 days and a super snazzy solar powered-charging case that's genetically coded to Sam... as a favor?" What exactly does Wakanda owe Bucky that he can just request multi-million dollar experimental tech on a whim and even when he's seen as unwelcome or even potentially exiled the Dora still love him enough to be like "sure boo, White Wolf 4 eva!!! <3<3". Is this something covered in a comic book somewhere or is it buried in Endgame/Infinity War?
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Apr 16, 2021 22:29
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Gaz-L posted:This is the one bit I don't like in Truth (the comic) Isaiah's final mission literally has him leading Jewish women into a gas chamber by mistake as he tries to free them from a concentration camp 
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Apr 16, 2021 22:29
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Gaz-L posted:This is the one bit I don't like in Truth (the comic) Isaiah's final mission literally has him leading Jewish women into a gas chamber by mistake as he tries to free them from a concentration camp lol, what the everloving gently caress. This show is alright, but it's really obviously suffering from being half filmed in a pandemic. Someone last page mentioned that Sam and Bucky's chemistry seems off, but it's not consistent throughout and there's plenty of scenes where they work great together. It's pretty clear from the amount of (really quite badly) CGI'd depth of field rack pulls, odd framing and weird ADR that they probably weren't even shot together lot of the the time. I'm guessing there's a fair amount of green screening going on, and it suddenly feels weird for a lot of scenes because they were acting against thin air and were comp'ed together afterwards. It's a shame, because there's a lot of interesting ideas and themes going on in this show, and it's a miracle any big budget show is getting made after the last 12 months, but I imagine the cast and crew are tearing their hair out over what this show is versus what it could have been. Still, it's not like a show about a man with a bird costume and a magic frisbee is worth anyone dying over.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:30
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Its Rinaldo posted:The US training, indoctrinating, equipping, using, then discarding Walker Cap with no help or support is an elegant summation of a lot of veterans experience.  it really is. Just rewatched the episode again and... I still feel for the guy. Not white at all but That trial was brutal. Thought it was blatant that it wasn't about actual contrition or regret at what happened on the part of the government... just that it got caught on film. Easier to just put him in a hole to die so everyone forgets the real evil is the system that created him. "I lived my life by your mandates! I dedicated my life to your mandates! I only ever did what you asked of me, what you told me to be and what you trained me to do, and I did it. And I did it well." Really good speech by Russell and gently caress me the gut punch indifferent reply by the suits. "You built me." That really got to me. This will sound all too Eurotrash for U.S. tastes but I also hope that he somehow gets free from being used for a bit then gets tonnes of counseling and, maybe, one day can learn to be his own hero. In no way should he have that shield or role but he can still serve. Marsupial Ape posted:They want him in a hole where he can't point at generals and politicians and say, "Hydra, Hydra, not Hydra, Hydra..." and so on. Carlosologist posted:it dawns on me that they jailed Isiah for doing the same thing that made Steve Captain America in earnest. that's just an incredible bit of storytelling There's some discussion in the couch thread that makes me rethink some things and maybe going the F&WS avenue is the best. It's not light but it is present. I daresay this is familiar territory for anyone with any skin tone like myself and it will make it all the better and happier when I see Sam in his outfit. I know I'm being a silly mark but I'm loving jazzed to see Sam Wilson: Captain America. Not Captain America: soldier of America, but a representation of the dream of America. The America that should be as opposed to what is. Fitting that Wakanda helps him out as they did start to outreach to brothers and sisters all over the world. Really, really loved Bucky turning Zemo in to Ayo. Nice to see someone honour the people that helped him and the word he gave them. Really everyone was good in that episode and can't think of one part I disliked. Can't wait for more goons to see this so less [redacted] blocks and more beat discussion. Doom2020! fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 22:35
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Bust Rodd posted:"Hey man, the entire country is pretty pissed at you for breaking out our most hated war criminal from prison and then fighting us. Don't come back to Wakanda for a long, long time." Like I said earlier in the thread the can't be that mad at him, they showed him they could disable his billion dollar arm then just let him keep it. Bucky is a useful guy to be friends with and that sort of thing is probably what Shuri does for fun in her free time.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:39
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I love how transparently evil they made the GRC at the end there. "gently caress the refugees, push them in the sea or something I don't care". It kills me that they don't seem to be veering away from their "both sides" course.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:40
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About Sharon Has anyone brought up that her fake/real art dealing might be their attempt at a "subtle" tell that she's not herself and is a Skrull instead? The fake is out in the public as Sharon/Power Broker, while the real one is hidden away, i.e. locked up. Though I don't know if it's really their MO to keep the original somewhere alive. Maybe if they need to get intel from her or something.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:44
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stev posted:I love how transparently evil they made the GRC at the end there. "gently caress the refugees, push them in the sea or something I don't care". I mean, there was still pushback to the 'send them all back' plan even from other GRC members. Given that the US was the one pushing the plan, I suspect it's kinda like the UN where the major powers run roughshod over the rest of the world.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:44
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The hour's approaching, to give it your best And you've got to reach your prime. That’s when you need to put yourself to the test And show us a passage of time We're going to need a montage (Even Rocky has a montage)
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Apr 16, 2021 22:44
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Bust Rodd posted:What exactly does Wakanda owe Bucky that he can just request multi-million dollar experimental tech on a whim and even when he's seen as unwelcome or even potentially exiled the Dora still love him enough to be like "sure boo, White Wolf 4 eva!!! <3<3". I think it's a thing where politically, nothing can change the fact that he let the guy who killed T'Chaka out. The Dora Milaje can see why, and can see that he also brought him back, but that parts not going to be in the news as much, so he's still a liability.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:48
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BooDooBoo posted:Not exactly he's chased into the gas chamber, and tells the women going in to chamber to "run away and hide", then goes in and is surprised by the women already inside what he now realizes is a gas chamber as the door is sealed behind, the women assume he's been sent in to have his way with them as a final indignity, and he can't get the door open because they attack him it's hosed up and horrifying, very much stayed with me. Are you sure, I read it a couple of weeks back and I read it as he frees them as part of his attack on the camp, the Nazis start shelling him, so he tells them to run inside the nearest building, but oh no, it's the gas chamber and then they turn on him while the gas is released. The imagined threat of sexualised violence aspect, I can see, but i was pretty sure he was leading some of the women from the barracks already. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 22:50
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does doing a backflip make the magic shield easier to catch
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Apr 16, 2021 22:53
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VagueRant posted:does doing a backflip make the magic shield easier to catch I figure he's just ensuring that even if he throws it and does something else in a fight, punching a guy, evading an attack or whatever, that he has the timing and awareness to catch it again afterwards; using backflips to simulate complex movements mid-combat.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:55
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OB_Juan posted:I think it's a thing where politically, nothing can change the fact that he let the guy who killed T'Chaka out. The Dora Milaje can see why, and can see that he also brought him back, but that parts not going to be in the news as much, so he's still a liability. Plus, it wasn't really for him. It's for Sam, I'm assuming it's a kickass suit and some wings. T'Challa liked Steve, and Steve's chosen replacement needing new gear is probably something they wouldn't mind handing over. I doubt it was even hard for them, they already are way ahead of everyone else. Hell, giving Sam a 20 year old suit would still be miles ahead of anything anyone besides Iron Man would have had.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:56
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So Sharon totes sent Batroc to infiltrate the Flag Smashers and get them all killed for stealing the serum, right?
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Apr 16, 2021 23:03
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tsob posted:I figure he's just ensuring that even if he throws it and does something else in a fight, punching a guy, evading an attack or whatever, that he has the timing and awareness to catch it again afterwards; using backflips to simulate complex movements mid-combat. I respect holding off on the new suit until the final episode but this episode sorely lacked Bucky tossing the shield to Sam up in the air and in general I really hope we get a couple creative moments of aerial shield combat. Was anyone else kind of impressed or surprised by how frank Bucky’s apology was? “Steve and I literally never thought about your race factoring into giving you the shield. We hosed up.”
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Apr 16, 2021 23:03
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Doom2020! posted:That and once he is in that oubliette they can chop him up and drain him to find out the secrets. I think Winter Soldier the movie made it seem like ALL the secrets were out but I could see some things not making the web. Wasn't Von Strucker's compound supposed to be hard to find? The only original serum left was in Steve and Red Skull. Everything else was lost during the Hydra attack after Steve gets all hunked up. I supposed it was thanks to Red Skull that Hydra was able to make something as close as possible and it's the one Bucky got. Oh, and I just remembered that Steve had given blood samples after the incident (Went to quickly check on D+ and indeed, good god and I'm idiot and forgot lol).
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Apr 16, 2021 23:09
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Its Rinaldo posted:So Sharon totes sent Batroc to infiltrate the Flag Smashers and get them all killed for stealing the serum, right? There's no way Sharon is really bad because they're being way to obvious about it. And the focus on the art while she was in the phone probably means something.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:10
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This really was excellent. Walker's fight for the shield and then his speech to the tribunal, Sam's conversation with Isiah and "They'll never let you be Captain America and what Self-Respecting Black Man would ever want to be?" Bucky's apology to Sam not just for his own behavior, but even for Steve not truly understanding what he was asking, if not demanding, of Sam by offering him the shield, Sam continuing to be the Councilor first and helping Bucky understand what he needs to do to heal, everything was great. The only thing that was kind of weak for me was Sam's talk with his sister about why he seems ready to take up the Shield now. That he just can't abandon the fight despite Isiah's words or all the struggle and loss of both himself and Black People through history was for nothing... felt pretty weak. I expected more from this show after it's been so nuanced and gone out of its way to show Sam having a talent for understanding pain and seeing through to how to heal it. I hope that the final confrontation with Karli is going to do more to tie the pieces together into something more profound, because I think the pieces are all there. There was a lot of thematic weight to Sam fixing his family's boat by uniting the community around his family's name and the meaning they have to that community, and it parallels what Karli has done with the Flag Smashers movement. Combine that debate on collectivism and populism with the scenes of the two nephews playing superhero with the Shield, and cheering on their Uncle Sam (boy did THAT get a  out of me) as he montaged himself, and I think there is a final form for the show's Big Thesis Statement to take which will satisfy me and not just feel like Sam de facto dismissing Isiah's point as being rooted to much in his life experience for Sam to truly internalize.So yeah, as from the start this is all going to come down to exactly how the show deals with Karli, and what its final message about her and her movement is as a mirror for Sam's conflict. They've balanced the scales on this really well. She killed Battlestar, but in the heat of battle by accident after trying to keep him out of it, and was obviously guilty about it. She's set Sam up to die, but her radicalization against him is understandable after feeling he stabbed her in the back during their talk and what Walker did to her friend AND she herself is being set up by Carter which is the perfect escape button to make her realize she hosed up. She's about to do something Real Bad to the GRC leadership, but the trigger hasn't been pulled just yet and Sam and Bucky are on their way. And then there's Walker, who after his conversation with the family where he claimed to have killed his murderer, he's got to be desperate to kill Karli. The chessboard is set in a way where this could go in a lot of different directions. I hope its a good one for her and what she stands for. I still have faith it will be. Carlosologist posted:it dawns on me that they jailed Isiah for doing the same thing that made Steve Captain America in earnest. that's just an incredible bit of storytelling This was the first thing I thought of, what a brilliant little move on the writer's part.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:11
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live with fruit posted:There's no way Sharon is really bad because they're being way to obvious about it. And the focus on the art while she was in the phone probably means something. I thought that was a metaphor for Sharon's life. All that art was the real version, hidden away and only shown to other criminals while the fakes most think of are real is displayed to the public.
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Apr 16, 2021 23:44
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Its Rinaldo posted:I thought that was a metaphor for Sharon's life. All that art was the real version, hidden away and only shown to other criminals while the fakes most think of are real is displayed to the public. Quick question if Sharon is the Power Broker, why did she point Sam, Bucky, and Zemo to her Supersoldier doctor? Tie up loose ends? He asked for too much money? She probably knows enough about Zemo to know how he is going to react I still think she's a mole and has some kind of both sidesy SHIELD stuff she's playing, just because it's quite a shock for Peggy Carter's niece to become a ruthless criminal kingpin TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 23:58
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TulliusCicero posted:I still think she's a mole and has some kind of both sidesy SHIELD stuff she's playing, just because it's quite a shock for Peggy Carter's niece to become a ruthless criminal kingpin The latter though would probably be thematically appropriate given that there's a non-zero chance that Peggy was connected to the serum experiments.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:22
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Its Rinaldo posted:So Sharon totes sent Batroc to infiltrate the Flag Smashers and get them all killed for stealing the serum, right? Batroc being some kind of double agent here makes the most sense to me, yeah. I'm not convinced Sharon is suddenly evil, it wouldn't make any sense for her character. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a post credits scene in the next episode that reveals she was working some kind of long game with Fury or like someone else said, is a skrull.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:27
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seaborgium posted:Plus, it wasn't really for him. It's for Sam, I'm assuming it's a kickass suit and some wings. T'Challa liked Steve, and Steve's chosen replacement needing new gear is probably something they wouldn't mind handing over. I doubt it was even hard for them, they already are way ahead of everyone else. Hell, giving Sam a 20 year old suit would still be miles ahead of anything anyone besides Iron Man would have had. and while they told him to stay out for the time being, it wasn't like a ban. They all clearly like Bucky, even if they were grumpy with him.
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