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Gaius Marius posted:yeet btw I told my wife that someone on SA like instantly figured out the tokyo zodiac murders while reading it, she's reading it now, so I reassured her that despite what I thought it's doable I'm just bad at it I guess or didn't think about it long enough still impressed you did that! I did know about the pig example but never thought to use it in this context but I also like don't read mysteries and I wonder if they would get easier if I read more I did watch all of Jonathan Creek but that was it. I don't think those were fair play mysteries but I can't remember.
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Apr 14, 2021 04:46
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Oh I wouldn't say instantly at all Toklyo Zodiac Murder spoilers Spoilered cause Rockman said he picked it up I think If I hadn't been prepped by 200 hours of Umineko before hadn then I would've been lost. Even in my own reading once I hit the Kyoto section I nearly went fully over into the Heikichi Alive story. I thought for a second that the Policmans wife was his lover and he was taunting Kiyoshi! Reading a lot of mystery does give you some help, but more in a meta way almost. It tells me I can trust that the premise is important, which means that there needs to be six corpses, if I connect that with the Daughter as culprit theory, plus the Azoth creating a full woman. Well I need an undead woman to be the culprit and the story just gave me one with means and opportunity You can also see where this fails with me failing to 100% get the Heikichi murder, and completely failing on the older daughters murderer.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:14
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Gaius Marius posted:Oh I wouldn't say instantly at all Oh yeah you also mentioned being confused about like what all the parts in Kyoto etc were for, I think that's all just entirely red herring stuff to just give you more information as to not make it too easy, and put more time in between you seeing the clues that are actually important and the part where Kiyoshi figures it out
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Apr 14, 2021 06:15
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Stefan Prodan posted:I did watch all of Jonathan Creek but that was it. I don't think those were fair play mysteries but I can't remember. It varied from episode to episode but from what I remember they were mostly fair.
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Apr 14, 2021 15:47
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Droyer posted:It varied from episode to episode but from what I remember they were mostly fair. Ah ok yeah so the hard part is just having like realistically a few minute time window to figure it out once you get the clues unless you pause
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Apr 14, 2021 18:05
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I replayed Chapter 1 of Higurashi while taking notes to better speculate on what's going on. I'm not sure if I want to replay 2-4? It feels kind of annoying that unlike a book where I could just flip to whatever page to check something, I'm limited to chapter select and the log feature. Plus I really want to move on to Chapter 5! Here's what I do have, though: Rena refers to the window incident as "transferring", quotes included. Thus, I believe that whenever people say Satoshi "transferred", they mean that something similar happened to him. Rena also says that Satoshi ""transferred" out", and she doesn't want Keiichi to ""transfer" out". So, "transfer" and ""transfer" out" are similar but different things, with only ""transfer" out" resulting in a disappearance. All three "transfer"ers used metal bats. Satoko's parents supposedly fell off a cliff because the railing they were leaning on broke. Does a railing perhaps count as a metal bat for whatever is going on and Satoko's mother "transferred", killing Satoko's father before disappearing? I don't know how Rika's parents fit into this. Satoshi being seen taking a train to Tokyo is the same as Chapter 3 Keiichi being seen at the festival. Whatever doppelganger poo poo is going on, Satoshi is part of it and he is not in Tokyo. I've decided that Irie is, if not the leader of all this, deeply involved in whatever is happening. Exhibit A: Ooishi's story about how the demons of Onigafuchi would heal illnesses, at the cost of eating whoever brought the patient. This is all a doctor conspiracy. Exhibit B: It's said the "Manager" will be happy to hear that Keiichi has gotten into baseball. Irie coaches baseball. While Shion is the manager of the baseball team, the "Manager" is referred to with male pronouns, so short of a translation error (not impossible) I doubt it's her. Exhibit C: This is less evidence and more recontextualization, but this would mean that Irie's decision to sedate Keiichi in chapter 3 is not due to thinking he's crazy, but because he knows too much. Why does Irie die in chapters 3 and 4? ...I don't actually know, sorry. Something strange I noticed but don't have an explanation for: In Chapter 3, Takano has Tomitake's bike in her car, but in chapter 1, Tomitake's bike is found by the police 300 meters from his body. Possibility 1: Takano moves the bike 300 meters for some reason, but it doesn't seem worth the risk? Possibility 2: Takano and Tomitake's actions and deaths vary significantly between chapters, despite the Chapter 2 afterparty implying they are similar. I think possibility 2 is correct, though this makes what's going on with those two even more mysterious. When Keiichi has internal conversations, it's him talking to some second entity in his head. I don't have much proof or examples because I thought of this late so I wasn't keeping an eye out for it from the start, but I'm inexplicably sure of it. The second entity could be a split personality or whatever rather than an actual separate being, but it's not just him debating things in his head.
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Apr 15, 2021 12:26
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God do you guys remember when they announced "Umineko Gold" or whatever it was, where they were going to professionally dub the entirety of umineko? It just kinda faded into nothing but it sure did seem exciting for awhile
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Apr 15, 2021 16:03
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In english? That sounds awful
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Apr 15, 2021 17:58
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I'm really not sure they realized how much work that would be.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:05
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hard to imagine yelling BATTLER!!!! in english instead of the BATTTORRRRAAAAA that I have become accustomed to
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Apr 15, 2021 18:42
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The current translations would be absolutely terrible-sounding dubbed. If they canceled the project, they made the right move.
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Apr 16, 2021 01:28
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I can say it flows better than the translation of Tokyo Zodiac Murders, and honestly most Japenese lit I've read that isn't Mishima. But it would probably sound terrible. Also Imo most Americans can't hit the right line between cute and menacing that most of the witches hit.
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Apr 16, 2021 01:39
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He's out for blood She's got the same scent as Beato, and might be an Endless witch. They couldn't telegraph this harder if they tried Gretchen drowns her child, but her soul is saved. That might have parallel with natsuhi Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 02:53
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Higurashi Chapter 5: Whenever Keiichi is on screen, everyone should be asking "when will Keiichi leave?" I can't believe the first thing this loving guy does in this chapter is rant about porn. I kind of wish I had replayed Chapter 2 before this one but oh well! Big fan of a) the meta-joke of Shion's notebook speculation being about the same as what trying to solve the mystery is like for the reader. A lot of "Oh, what about this? Wait, no, that contradicts this other thing". b) Shion thinking Keiichi is an idiot for going into the murder dungeon with her. c) That the events of Chapter 2 are not in fact Mion becoming murderous over not being given a doll, because drat that would have been dumb as hell. God, I bet being around while these were being released must have been wild with cool speculation, but with the full set available to me, I just want to keep going and see what's next instead of taking my time to completely unpack everything. There's an anime version of Higurashi (multiple anime versions?), right? Some of the stuff in these games is gruesome enough just as text, I can't imagine actually having to watch those scenes. Eugh.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:35
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Procrastine posted:There's an anime version of Higurashi (multiple anime versions?), right? Some of the stuff in these games is gruesome enough just as text, I can't imagine actually having to watch those scenes. Eugh. There is one from like 2006 which generally is controversial when it is brought up. Some people really like it, but rushed some parts which caused them to have to make a special arc to make up for it. Then there is Higurashi Gou which is its own thing which you should not watch until at least finished Higurashi.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:46
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Stefan Prodan posted:hard to imagine yelling BATTLER!!!! in english instead of the BATTTORRRRAAAAA that I have become accustomed to
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Apr 16, 2021 22:53
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Higurashi Gou was great but yeah, it kind of assumes the reader knows a lot about Higurashi.
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Apr 16, 2021 22:54
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Umineko EP 6 And Gaap's profile says she has a habit of hiding keys and such, this game has some very subtly done clue work if you go looking for it. I really am not sure of what to make of Chick Beato or her Onee San Man the idea that Shannon spent years walking behind all the other servants and unlocking the windows just to grow the legend of the witch is just sad  lol the supreme gentleman George Ushiromiya But when the gently caress did he learn Shannon's name. I thought that he didn't know it? Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 01:14
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woodenchicken posted:Or "Yare! Yare! Yare!", whatever that means maybe this is  but it's funny I feel like I see that translated differently every time it comes up, from the "good grief" in JoJo to like a million other things
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Apr 17, 2021 01:20
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Stefan Prodan posted:maybe this is That is because words, particularly interjections, rarely map perfectly onto English ones. やれやれ is closest to the meaning of "good grief" or "geez" in most contexts, but they don't always work. The times when they match: 1) Used when one encounters something unexpectedly annoying/difficult (ie: "Geez, the screw doesn't want to go in") 2) Used when one sympathizes with difficulties someone else experiences (ie: "Good grief, your coworkers suck, don't they?") 3) Used when reflecting on some difficulty was resolved (ie: "Geez, that customer was an rear end in a top hat") The times when they don't match: 4) Used when relieved (ie: "Phew, that's a relief") 5) Used when calling out to others (ie: "Hey, what are you doing Saturday?")
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Apr 17, 2021 01:38
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I finally cracked that copy of Tokyo Zodiac Murders I grabbed last week and I'm only like two pages past the prologue/letter but wow I had no idea how many of the weirder themes from Umineko came directly from here.
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Apr 17, 2021 01:49
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MegaZeroX posted:That is because words, particularly interjections, rarely map perfectly onto English ones. やれやれ is closest to the meaning of "good grief" or "geez" in most contexts, but they don't always work. So you're saying yare yare can be used in those 4th and 5th contexts also?
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Apr 17, 2021 02:14
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Stefan Prodan posted:So you're saying yare yare can be used in those 4th and 5th contexts also? Yes
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Apr 17, 2021 02:28
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Rockman Reserve posted:I finally cracked that copy of Tokyo Zodiac Murders I grabbed last week and I'm only like two pages past the prologue/letter but wow I had no idea how many of the weirder themes from Umineko came directly from here. It would grind Eirika's and Knox's gears but the crossover between speculative, gothic, and lovecraftian fiction and Detective novels is far smaller than most might assume. Consider that Poe is the main inspiration for both Doyle and Lovecraft. More than that there's a pretty large contingent of supernatrual detective fiction that is still in some ways bound to the detective conventions. e.g. Algernon Blackwoods John Silence works, The Inmost Light by Arthur Machen which is almost a parody of a Holmes story, or Robert E Howards Solomon Kane stories which blend the Adventure, supernatural, and even the detective genres. This also isn't the thread for it but Howards should be remembered as one of the greatest american authors, people who dismiss Conan as mere pulp are truly ridiculous. I've never read an author who can so viscerally describe action.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:34
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Rockman Reserve posted:Higurashi Gou was great but yeah, it kind of assumes the reader knows a lot about Higurashi. Also as a warning to anyone who thought some of the more gruesome parts of the original Higurashi were hard to get through, there's an episode of Gou that goes way beyond, and to me it felt like clearly too much even as a big fan of the franchise. To be fair that was only one episode (though the one preceding it also bothered some people), and I've calmed down a bit about it since it ended up being an outlier, but I do think Gou generally feels more mean-spirited than the original. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 02:06
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Sinteres posted:Also as a warning to anyone who thought some of the more gruesome parts of the original Higurashi were hard to get through, there's an episode of Gou that goes way beyond, and to me it felt like clearly too much even as a big fan of the franchise. To be fair that was only one episode (though the one preceding it also bothered some people), and I've calmed down a bit about it since it ended up being an outlier, but I do think Gou generally feels more mean-spirited than the original. This is not an overstatement at all, that episode was probably the most hosed up thing I've seen on a screen in ages. Personally the previous episode had been pretty gruesome but it had an air of dark comedy amid all the desperation. That one, though....oof. I've heard on the broadcast versions that entire scene was censored so you could barely see the screen at any given point and if I ever re-watch it or recommend it to someone I'm going to try to track that one down, because it's that gross.
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Apr 18, 2021 17:57
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Rockman Reserve posted:This is not an overstatement at all, that episode was probably the most hosed up thing I've seen on a screen in ages. Personally the previous episode had been pretty gruesome but it had an air of dark comedy amid all the desperation. That one, though....oof. Yeah...that scene was extremely rough. Censoring would really have been helpful for that scene.
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Apr 18, 2021 18:21
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Higurashi Chapter 6 "Well, Oyashiro-sama wasn't quite a foreigner, but he was a doctor" Me: "I swear to god this better not be aliens" Later: "It was aliens" "Goddammit Rena" God what a rollercoaster that was. I'm curious if Takano's theories were based on actual speculation at the time or if they're just general conspiracy stuff. Something something MGSV.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:12
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How do you read so fast? Or is higurashi just way shorter
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Apr 18, 2021 21:16
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Gaius Marius posted:How do you read so fast? Or is higurashi just way shorter Higurashi is for sure shorter than Umineko. That said, it's still pretty sizable.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:12
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The Higurashi answer arcs are about 8 to 10 hours of reading for each. Meanwhile, Umineko is 12 to 15 each, I'd say. Still, it all depends on how much reading per day you can afford to put into it. I read all of Umineko in a month back when I binged it.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:26
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The Higurashi answer arcs are about 8 to 10 hours of reading for each. Meanwhile, Umineko is 12 to 15 each, I'd say. Still, it all depends on how much reading per day you can afford to put into it. I read all of Umineko in a month back when I binged it. *Glances at the eighty hours I have on Answer arc, halfway through case six* Yeah super reasonable Umineko EP 6 Thoughts Just about to get into Chick Beato’s Trial thought I’d sort out my thoughts Oh yeah I’ll no refer to the “True” persona of Beato/Shannon/Cannon as Sayo The Parallelism between Battler and Both Kinzo and Beato is real drat strong this EP. It putting us into the same shoes that Sayo must’ve been when she saw Battler for the first time in years, completely different is very resonant. Him accidentally repeating his own mistakes, and honestly her own, by focusing on the game instead of communicating with her. Hurts my heart. There’s also a strong but divergent parallel with Battler and Kinzo. While both have gone to some level of madness after losing their own Beatrice, Battler doesn’t seem to have fallen into the same trap Kinzo did. Whereas Kinzo seems to have taken and imprisoned his own daughter and raised her as a replacement, Battler when confronted with the idea of a Daughter of Beatrice he can raise as his own refuses to stoop to that level, at least so far. This action to me shows that he’s the only one who seems to be capable of stepping outside the shadow and sins of the Roshimaya family and start over. Another hint we get about his survival. The love trials and the Demons Gaspar and Zephyr. Sayo has some real gender identity problems, I don’t want to speculate too hard as it’s really not my expertise but I’m guessing it has to do with her fall from the cliffs. The Self Esteem issues, Furniture Talk, and needing a “Miracle” to love someone makes it seem like she feels she can’t have a sexual relationship with any of them, and thus in her own mind a True relationship. George probably isn’t helping with him constantly talking about kids. Maybe you shoulda tried discussing your actual future with your Fiancee instead of enforcing your own on her. Interestingly Despite the horrible position she managed to maneuver herself into, being in a relationship with three cousin’s, and I think she’s their half cousin too? I’m not gonna try and figure out that family tree right now. Anyway Battler is the only one who seems to actually be able to understand even a bit of what she’s going through. Granted we’re playing as the lad and it took him 180 hours or so. But George for all his talk of love and what not, doesn’t ever seem to actually talk anything out with her instead giving her ultimatums and enforcing his view on her, hell he probably decided to propose then because he thought Battler was gonna steal her away. Which he did, gently caress you george. Jessie is more understanding Kanon was clearly restive, they didn’t actually get much time to talk at any rate. Anyways Sayo 99% already solved the riddle, and was hoping one of the cousins would as well, stop her, understand her, and then they could be together. If I understand the metaphor of the games right, what actually happened is Battler realized who she was after the family was wholly dead. Something Happened, They changed identities, and now she spends her time writing witch tales about it to alleviate both of their guilt. I’m actually glad as hell they confirmed that she survived, when I was balls deep in my Goethe theory I was convinced she was gonna drown herself. That does make me wonder why Battler didn’t meet with Ange. I have no real theories about that, maybe he though it best she didn’t know the truth? The other one I got is the parallelism between him and Kinzo. Maybe he was somehow severely burned during the Massacre like Kinzo’s corpse, It would explain why he was incognito during the book signing. As for the Actual Trial murders I think I got their ticket. George confessed to his Mom with Shannon by his side, she freaked, and shannon killed her, they then used her master key to hide her in the VIP room. Jessica’s was way more hardcore. She must’ve soaked the room in Kerosene or something, and spliced the phone line, she chased Kyrie into the room knowing she’d lock the door and call for help. When she picked up the receiver the circuit sent a spark that ignited the room and her. Hopefully that’s how old phones work. Huh is Chick Beato afraid of the mirror because seeing her own reflection she realizes she's Sayo and not Beatrice? It would also explain why some find it hard to recognize her at first like Natsuhi just did The mad lad killed himself didn't he YOU MAD LAD, GODDAMN That's why he's stuck, he thought of a way to create a closed room that doesn't work And beato is gonna save him the symmetery like Pottery, it rhymes Hold up, Beato had a something in her hand a something when she died, she later had a butterfly come out and revive Battler, Butterfly broach signifyis a misracousl love, if I'm right Beato was counting even on this, Madlass status confirmed  Called it "Now we see that the idea of an unknownk outsider sneaking onto the island is actually the less realist ic option. the culprit is someone familiar with this island. And there's more than one" Eirkia stole a map of the mansion from the room. Battler made her the suspect and she wilingly gave up her authority that would prevent it loving mad lad The lockpicking Lwayer would destory this ilsand  This is so cute Fools doubting the Chadttler, they don't understand love Man second trial of love, If you get it this poo poo is frustrating gently caress I called Eierikia was the culprit but not htat she was on purpose Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 01:26
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Could anyone who has either finished Umineko or otherwise is fearless of spoilers find me screenshots of Beato saying "Battler is an idiot" in red text, and one of Beato doing her "ihihihihihihi" laugh? Thanks in advance.
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Apr 19, 2021 08:25
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Rockman Reserve posted:Could anyone who has either finished Umineko or otherwise is fearless of spoilers find me screenshots of Beato saying "Battler is an idiot" in red text, and one of Beato doing her "ihihihihihihi" laugh? Thanks in advance. 
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Apr 19, 2021 12:56
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Gaius Marius posted:In english? That sounds awful Yeah it was gonna be dubbed, this trailer was one of the few things they threw up before they disappeared into the ether after announcing the team had health issues. To my knowledge the promised kickstarter has never surfaced Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UByqEuL_exM Hearing Umineko with English voices is -loving weird-
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Apr 19, 2021 18:00
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Higurashi Chapter 7 gently caress you Keiichi  gently caress you random Angel Mort customer (Pretend I posted literally anything Kameda says) gently caress you Kameda  Get his rear end Rika I feel like at this point I'm close enough to the end I should read Chapter 8 before posting any deeper thoughts? idk
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Apr 20, 2021 00:02
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Procrastine posted:Higurashi Chapter 7 Honestly I feel like 7 lays out basically the entire plot and 8 is just icing on the cake tying everything together much more nicely (with a few great surprises). Personally I'd be interested in seeing your thoughts in between them since I finished 8 so recently myself.
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Apr 20, 2021 01:33
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Rockman Reserve posted:Honestly I feel like 7 lays out basically the entire plot and 8 is just icing on the cake tying everything together much more nicely (with a few great surprises). Personally I'd be interested in seeing your thoughts in between them since I finished 8 so recently myself. First off, goddammit Hanyuu this probably could have been solved waaaay earlier if you had used the fact that you're an invisible spy. I don't know exactly what rules Hanyuu's movement have but she could hang out around where Tomitake's body gets dumped and report back to Rika after seeing who's responsible? Also good job Hanyuu for stalking people with the syndrome and getting them even more paranoid, nothing but good ideas all around I posted about how Takano's death was evidence to me of supernatural stuff and I guess I fell for her trap! I kind of feel like a lot of this is "sufficiently advanced technology" or I guess, convenient diseases that are indistinguishable from magic? Mostly the entire "queen" thing, mainly because I know that's not how ants actually work (I know Umineko is at least partially about the whole magic vs convenient non-magic dichotomy so that'll be fun) (also there's actual magic with Hanyuu anyway) I was right that this is all a doctor conspiracy and Irie is involved! For completely the wrong reasons but still! Latching on to random poo poo and declaring it foreshadowing pays off! I think it's very funny that Chapter 6 says that from a non-infected POV there's normal explanations for the white van crew and then Chapter 7 says no, they really were superspies here to disappear people who knew too much. Takano giving her notes to Rena in Chapter 6, which are 90% the truth. I imagine she gave them to Rena recognizing that she was in late stages of the syndrome, but I wonder why. I imagine some part of it is so when the police get them, the alien stuff will discredit the rest and most people will dismiss the entire thing, but encouraging Rena's symptoms instead of just marking her for disappearance seems like a pointless risk? It occurs to me that I think the Chapter 5 epilogue mentions a bunch of villagers being alive in 2004 despite Rika being dead. ...Is the entire "colony collapse" thing completely wrong and Tokyo just murdered the entire village for no actual reason? The evidence of it being true is basically a) Satoko pushing Keiichi off the bridge in Chapter 3, which is likely because she didn't take her shot and b) villagers freaking out about being gassed, which seems like a completely normal reaction to being gassed. God that makes this entire thing even more tragic doesn't it. What the hell is Takano's motive. I know she said she wants to become god through enacting the curse but like. Why. Maybe it's just something I can't relate to. What was up with Teppei's non-murder in Chapter 3? The obvious answer is that Keiichi was at the festival and just imagined committing the murder, but that doesn't seem like it fits with what we know about the syndrome. Wait, no, it's probably Mion creating an alibi and Keiichi not realizing it. Keiichi murdered the wrong person (which is why the uncle is still alive), and the body being missing is because Mion had it moved like in Chapter 6. That sounds plausible, sure. Here's a vague theory I had at one point and didn't post because I thought it was too stupid: The idea that the higurashi cries were an important piece of the puzzle and signify something about whatever scene they play in. Like, they're robot drones playing some kind of mind-control sound or whatever. This was basically based entirely around the idea of "wouldn't it be cool if the title was a massive hint all along?" and I thought if this actually happened I would probably find it really stupid. Also actually finding evidence for this would be a huge slog of analyzing which scenes do or don't have higurashi cries and I didn't want to do that. The whole meta thing with the fragment watchers: There's definitely some interesting stuff here with like the whole thing of how your conclusions are shaped by small sample sizes (and the real world being a sample size of one) but this feels like something that will be expanded upon heavily in Chapter 8 and I don't know if I can really judge it without seeing if they stick the landing. It's either going to be very interesting or really pretentious, I'm hoping for the first one.
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Apr 20, 2021 10:47
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Procrastine posted:What was up with Teppei's non-murder in Chapter 3? The obvious answer is that Keiichi was at the festival and just imagined committing the murder, but that doesn't seem like it fits with what we know about the syndrome. Wait, no, it's probably Mion creating an alibi and Keiichi not realizing it. Keiichi murdered the wrong person (which is why the uncle is still alive), and the body being missing is because Mion had it moved like in Chapter 6. That sounds plausible, sure. Yeah, Keiichi was a dumb dumb who everyone could figure out murdered Teppei. Mion moved the body and his friends were trying to cover for him but he didn't realize it
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Apr 20, 2021 12:54
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Also, Satoko saying he was still alive should have a fairly obvious explanation after Chapter 7.
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Apr 20, 2021 12:57
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