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TyrantWD posted:My biggest problem with Sam getting the shield is that he needs to be dosed with super soldier serum for it to be believable that he takes all the hits he is going to end up taking. This is one of the things that gets me. Steve has gone up against Bucky, Iron Man (and other Avengers), 10 dudes in an elevator, hoards of aliens, and fuckin Thanos. This Wakandan suit is gonna have to be Iron Man levels to make any of this possible for someone without the super juice.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:19
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pik_d posted:This is one of the things that gets me. Steve has gone up against Bucky, Iron Man (and other Avengers), 10 dudes in an elevator, hoards of aliens, and fuckin Thanos. This Wakandan suit is gonna have to be Iron Man levels to make any of this possible for someone without the super juice. Idk, if Sam has the wings and the thrusters I think he's fine. He uses the wings as appendages and boosts his hits/ range by using his thrust in creative ways quite well in a lot of his fights, particularly in the fight with Walker If he has some form of wings I think he's good.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:23
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TulliusCicero posted:Idk, if Sam has the wings and the thrusters I think he's fine. He uses the wings as appendages and boosts his hits/ range by using his thrust in creative ways quite well in a lot of his fights, particularly in the fight with Walker Against low level threats sure, but against something like Thanos or some other stronger-than-Super-Soldier threat any boosted hit strong enough to phase them shatters his legs/arms unless it's a whole suit to rival Iron Mans. The 1 vs n fights also need more than wings/boost, too much is unguarded without a full suit. I guess I just feel like being called Captain America means you go up against stronger opponents than he's solo'd as Falcon.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:32
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Black Widow is just a lady that knows jiu-jitsu and has tazers on her wrists. 'Normal' people can be superheroes in the MCU. Battlestar died because he was inexperienced for the job, not because he didn't have powers.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:36
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gently caress that, its a comic book. He can do it without serum or whatever because he's a badass, it doesn't need to be more complex than that. There's already no consistency with how strong anyone is in any given movie or scene from a movie. Are we expected to believe this is some sort of "magic xylophone?!"
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Apr 17, 2021 03:38
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Didn't Sam take down the big huge dude who was one of Thanos's strongest lackeys in Endgame by himself? He just shanked the dude with his wings like a badass. Also yeah, what Sanguinia said: it's comic books Do you question why Batman can beat supers? Marvel has often had characters that seem underpowered and end up outsmarting or out maneuvering the stronger enemy
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Apr 17, 2021 03:41
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Comics Captain America is just "Peak Human" too and it doesn't seem to matter to him.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:46
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One of the reasons why Bucky was in Wakanda in the first place was because Black Panther had spent a whole movie trying to kill him, leading him to end up in custody, and disbelieving Bucky when he said he was innocent. That probably earned him some state goodwill.
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Apr 17, 2021 03:58
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pik_d posted:This Wakandan suit is gonna have to be Iron Man levels to make any of this possible for someone without the super juice. To be fair, wakandan tech is on the level of tonys tech, if not far beyond it. TheTofuShop fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 04:32
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Walker was using the shield just fine without the Juice. you don't need to be a super solider to throw a frisbee really well and catch it. You might need to be one to like throw it through a wall or some poo poo.
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Apr 17, 2021 04:33
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The shield only has as much kinetic energy as you put into the throw. A normal dude throwing it means it will have a normal amount of force behind it.
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Apr 17, 2021 04:53
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Pussy Quipped posted:The shield only has as much kinetic energy as you put into the throw. A normal dude throwing it means it will have a normal amount of force behind it. Um... are you not familiar with vibranium? Force applied through a throw has nothing to do with it. Vibranium can be perfected to accelerate when air resistance is applied - kinetic energy turns into potential energy turns into potential energy. The shield is literally just stuffed full of kinetic energy at any one time how do you think Sam can throw it at a tree at height x and have it return to him at height 1.3x?
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Apr 17, 2021 04:56
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Some thoughts on the episode -Overall I thought it was good, as we got to slow things down a bit and actually get back into the primary story of the show, that being Sam deciding whether or not to take the shield. -I was disappointed that this is probably the last of Zemo until maybe a post-credits scene at the end of next week. I feel like things are beginning to set up the possibility of an MCU version of the Thunderbolts. It's also weird how they used Zemo's mask. It's in two total scenes, never explained, and then goes away and is forgotten again. Disappointing to say the least. -It does feel like Sharon Carter may be the Power Broker as has been theorized, but if so, why would she lead Zemo to her super secret serum lab? Which then gets destroyed? I'll be curious how they wrap up that plotline. -The Isaiah Bradley scenes were great and I'm glad we got more of him before this ended -The Bucky and Sam vs. John Walker fight at the beginning gave me some serious Cap vs. Tony Civil War vibes. I get that they are trying to make this guy sympathetic but he's really gone off the deep end and I'm sure it's going to get worse when he shows up next week as US Agent or whatever. -I'm not really sure what to make of the Flag Smasher stuff now. I feel like they did a good job last week setting up their motivation better, but they are only in a handful of short scenes in this episode and I'll be curious how they manage to wrap things up with Karli seemingly going full evil now.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:05
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Sanguinia posted:gently caress that, its a comic book. He can do it without serum or whatever because he's a badass, it doesn't need to be more complex than that. There's already no consistency with how strong anyone is in any given movie or scene from a movie. I dunno, I've been feeling this too, and I kinda want Sam to get the juice somehow. Maybe it's because of shows like The Boys and Invincible, but it really seems insanely vulnerable to be a regular human pretending to be a superhero when your head would just get pulped from an errant punch from the Hulk or something. Even with his wings, he's still incredibly vulnerable to even something as mundane as bullets, or failing to dodge a torso-pulverizing supersoldier punch. If he'd made a single mistake, that could have been Sam dead against that pillar! TulliusCicero posted:Do you question why Batman can beat supers? Yeah, add the Snyder Cut here too. They did not make any pretense of having Batman on the same level as his teammates; he was fighting for his life against a single Parademon while the rest of them were mashing them up by the dozen, and the only real fighting he ever did was from inside one of his warmachines. Like, that was a big part of what made John Walker so compelling as a character -- he was just a regular soldier, one who'd always been at the top of his game, big fish in a small pond, and they gave him a shield and threw him into a world where he was just a regular human being going up against supermen. They can call him Captain America all they want, but it felt like he was set up to fail, he was always going to be insanely undergunned being sent into situations that Steve Rogers would have excelled at. I thought Sam's training sequence was pretty cool, too, but it kinda drove that home for me. With all the work he had to put into it, versus watching a dozen movies where the shield just effortlessly pops back into Steve Rogers' hands, it just seems so impossible for him to be able to use it reliably in a crazy chaotic fight the way you'd expect from Captain America. It really sold the weight of the shield, too -- yes, this is a heavy lump of metal being thrown around at high speeds and it's gonna be difficult to catch it properly. Probably too difficult for a baseline human, even in a comic book movie. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 05:14
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FlamingLiberal posted:
I got more an Iron Man and company vs Thanos feeling from it with how they were trying to take the shield from him like they were trying to take the gauntlet. Once the shield was gone Bucky easily beat him up.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:19
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Oh and Jason Alexander should be Mole Man.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:22
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I'm liking that they show that major difference between Sam and Buck is that Sam doubts he could replace Steve, but he doesn't doubt that he is a good man - which is very obviously Bucky's greatest fear I also really liked that they tied up the whole successor thing with "When Steve told me what he was planning..." Of course Steve would discuss it with Buck
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Apr 17, 2021 05:41
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Having John Walker be fired over an officer-involved killing rather than being placed on paid leave and having the public rally behind him was a bit jarring, like the Libyan airspace thing from e1. It's like the creators have seen Watchmen and seen Lovecraft Country and want to have a go at it, but without really challenging the pro-america, pro-military framework of the MCU. John Walker's villain name should be The Bad Apple.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:44
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Yeah, right wingers would be rallying behind John Walker to proclaim he did nothing wrong shortly before chanting 'USA! USA! USA!'.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:50
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I don’t get that take, because Walker himself basically turns to the camera and says “I’m a kill-happy living weapon because the government trained me to be and now that I’ve embarrassed them I’m disposable” to the audience.
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Apr 17, 2021 05:52
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Also he was a symbol, not just a cop or a solider. I'm sure there are people in the media and world defending him. But he embarrassed the wrong people, and those people stripped him. He would get lucrative deals from RW media. But the Feds would extremely try and distance themselves from him. Rogue Agent, lone wolf etc etc.
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Apr 17, 2021 06:09
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Is there a reason why the Dora Milaje would take Zemo to the Raft and not Wakanda itself? Steve already proved that place is anything but impenetrable.
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Apr 17, 2021 06:15
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Sam and Bucky were literally trying to rip a symbol away from a man, which would leave him just a man. A symbol they both idolize and he covets. The scene had such intense weight because of that - the symbol meant more than the man they were fighting. Bucky delivering his line “yeah... we do” while just staring downward at the shield was so drat compelling. Then the episode turns into Sam confronting what holding that symbol means and it’s amazing and Bucky comes to realize his resentment about the shield came from loss of a man not a loss of a symbol and they bond and it’s just great stuff. These are seriously complex and layered characters because a single symbol means different things to all three of them. Just great writing to let the shield be an externalized manifestation of their own mutually exclusive beliefs.
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Apr 17, 2021 06:18
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DukeofCA posted:Is there a reason why the Dora Milaje would take Zemo to the Raft and not Wakanda itself? Steve already proved that place is anything but impenetrable. Presumably T'Challa handed him over to the world court or whatever because of the UN bombing, since he was the one who captured him in the first place. This was also when Wakanda wasn't known as it is after Black Panther came out and started the outreach program and let people know that "oh hey Wakanda is actually super advanced" instead of hiding it. So they're still probably playing nice with the nations of the world and handing Zemo back over to the UN or whatever and they're placing him in a higher security location.
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Apr 17, 2021 06:39
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The show that centers a man who went through the Tuskegee experiments is pro military?
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Apr 17, 2021 06:48
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Tom Tucker posted:Sam and Bucky were literally trying to rip a symbol away from a man, which would leave him just a man. A symbol they both idolize and he covets. It really was. Loved the episode so much and it made the preceding episodes have more weight. Next episode is going to be an action fest but this episode set up why they will be there. I still feel for Walker. Dude was used, tossed aside when he made his country look bad and in comes someone definitely shady to make it all better. He’s feeling betrayed, vulnerable and desperate to redeem himself and that is the worst time for a vulture to come by. I really hope he doesn’t become the next Winter Soldier. Loved each character moment in this show so far though I’m still rooting for Karli to pull out a redemptive arc out of nowhere. Anthony Mackie killed it this episode and I want him to be my friend. Really enjoy his compassionate take on a super hero. Most movies kinda forget that heroes are supposed to inspire as much as socking nazis in their stupid mouths. Fitting for Captain America. Probably why Steve wanted him with the shield.
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Apr 17, 2021 06:59
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Sam's needs to get an infusion of Isiah's blood somehow. Boom, superhuman.
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Apr 17, 2021 07:00
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Sloth Life posted:Sam's needs to get an infusion of Isiah's blood somehow. Boom, superhuman. That origin is already taken by Isaiah's grandson, Elijah.
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Apr 17, 2021 07:04
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Neither Widow or Hawkeye or the upcoming Better Hawkeye have the serum and all of them are Avengers, I really think the symbolism of normal human black man who’s very hardworking becoming captain American is part of why he’s not ever going to get the Serum - he’s Captain America cause he’s a good person not cause he has punchy punch juice.
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Apr 17, 2021 07:55
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TheTofuShop posted:To be fair, wakandan tech is on the level of tonys tech, if not far beyond it.  I get the MCU is its own beast, but the opportunity was too good to pass up.
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Apr 17, 2021 08:09
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Golden Bee posted:The show that centers a man who went through the Tuskegee experiments is pro military? Very much so.
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Apr 17, 2021 08:46
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Professor Dog posted:Very much so. Really? How? Some of the Marvel movies have been hilariously over the top American propaganda (Captain Marvel had some really painful scenes) but this is the first marvel show where it feels like they’re actually dunking on America and the military over and over without even the “one good cia agent” token of Black Panther.
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Apr 17, 2021 08:58
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coolusername posted:Really? How? Some of the Marvel movies have been hilariously over the top American propaganda (Captain Marvel had some really painful scenes) but this is the first marvel show where it feels like they’re actually dunking on America and the military over and over without even the “one good cia agent” token of Black Panther. Which scenes were those?
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Apr 17, 2021 09:07
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live with fruit posted:Which scenes were those? They're probably referring to the ones that were basically Air Force recruiting videos.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:09
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Floppychop posted:They're probably referring to the ones that were basically Air Force recruiting videos. Join the Air Force and fly alien technology?
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Apr 17, 2021 09:14
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live with fruit posted:Join the Air Force and fly alien technology? Now you're being intentionally obtuse. The Air Force had a hand in writing parts of the script and it had to be okayed by them to be able to use stuff like F-16s and shots of the base in the final cut. It's not hard to see that the movie puts the USAF in a positive light.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:33
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Floppychop posted:Now you're being intentionally obtuse. What scenes though? By the time the movie starts, both Carol and Maria are out of the Air Force and all we get in flashbacks is Carol working with Mar Vel and getting mistreated by everyone else.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:38
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live with fruit posted:What scenes though? By the time the movie starts, both Carol and Maria are out of the Air Force and all we get in flashbacks is Carol working with Mar Vel and getting mistreated by everyone else. I haven’t seen it for a while but the ones that stuck with me are the “Join the Air Force” strutting where all the mistreatment is off screen and aren’t you a bad enough chick to overcome it check out our planes have a slogan, and more vaguely something about when she’s choosing color scheme I remember being momentarily disquieting. I’m speaking as a non-American and those were the stand out “ok we get it American propaganda can we go back to the fun now” moments for me.
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Apr 17, 2021 09:46
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The Air Force was not literally writing scripts, and honestly the airforce comes off as a sexist and garbage place to work for the most part in the movie, but they do allow the military to use scenes and poo poo from the movie in marketing and did a bunch of behind the scenes puff pieces about Larson, and the directors talking to various military members. It is however most certainly a useful recruitment and propaganda vector. As it allows the military to publish videos about movie heroes meeting real heroes(  )
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Apr 17, 2021 09:48
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The new patty Jenkins star wars movie is obviously also going that direction
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Apr 17, 2021 09:51
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