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Ironslave posted:I'd like an MMO that accommodates for exploration the way the original EverQuest did, but that's not really feasible as a business model. The only game I've played "recently" that scratched that itch for me was launch Guild Wars 2, which might seem weird because if you play it enough it eventually becomes a currency grinding simulator where most of the gameplay is running from event to event and managing your inventory. But the launch maps especially are really big and have a lot of details tucked away into the nooks and crannies. Was always randomly discovering some new jumping puzzle or out-of-the-way event. I turned off all the UI elements that were blinking at me and telling me where to go and just had some fun exploring. Unfortunately there's been power creep so the events don't really have any bite anymore and the mobs just kinda fall over. Also the new zones personally don't have nearly the same exploration magic for me. But the base game is free to just gently caress around with it and check it out.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:28
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GW always was good at making exploration worthwhile pre-endgame. i remember the tutorial area of GW1 had a truly ridiculous number of optional quests if you poked around enough
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Apr 15, 2021 18:51
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Glass of Milk posted:Think Valheim with like 50 players on a server, maybe with some light crafting stuff. This is more or less what Last Oasis is morphing into. It's fun. Dante posted:Thanks for replying, basically my metrics are: GW2 then. Though the free version only includes core classes and surprise, several of the pvp meta classes require buying an xpac. But even then you're talking about a ton of content for $20 and no subscription.
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Apr 16, 2021 08:42
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Ironslave posted:I'd like an MMO that accommodates for exploration the way the original EverQuest did, but that's not really feasible as a business model. Why not? Dik Hz posted:I dunno, an MMO with temporary procedurally generated zones that had SWG style crafting and resources could scratch that itch. You'd need a good algorithm and a really strong tile set. I don't think Procgen is the answer. It sounds very appealing but making procgen look interesting is really, really, really hard. In the same time you can almost always produce more, higher-quality content if you just build a bunch of hand-made levels instead. But if you come up with clever ways to re-use areas I think you can do a lot with a little. There's ways to efficiently design areas that nobody's doing right now. Everquest's zones are pretty simple and low poly, and it didn't have anything procedural or instanced at all. So clearly that isn't actually needed. You just need huge spaces and reasons to trek back and forth across them and slowly explore more places, and have them all be dangerous enough you can't just do it at at level 1.
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Apr 16, 2021 08:58
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Zaphod42 posted:Why not? Probably the years of wiki abuse, data mining abuse, want-satisfaction-immediately type of people that have an hour to play after work makes it so that forcing massive exploration and slow travel results in a significantly reduced userbase
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Apr 16, 2021 09:10
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Biowarfare posted:Probably the years of wiki abuse, data mining abuse, want-satisfaction-immediately type of people that have an hour to play after work makes it so that forcing massive exploration and slow travel results in a significantly reduced userbase The former is an issue but one that can be technically tackled. The latter though, yeah, there's the rub. You could maybe pull it off as a smaller niche title with a reduced budget and more stylized graphics than ultra detailed. EQ was profitable and never had nearly the subscriber numbers that WoW had. But yeah, probably hard to argue the investment versus other potential games at the moment. Course, there's so much competition in the game industry now in all other genres, who knows. I think it could work but it'd take a publisher thinking it'll work so... yeah.
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Apr 16, 2021 09:18
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Zaphod42 posted:The former is an issue but one that can be technically tackled. The latter though, yeah, there's the rub. There's also that in an MMO about exploration in the same way, you'd have developers spending time creating assets and locations very few members of the playerbase are likely to see. This is, a far as time invested and player retention are concerned, wasted time.
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Apr 16, 2021 09:31
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my bullshit bar minimum for games with slow travel, no teleports, etc is at least give me an autorun/autowalk toggle
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Apr 16, 2021 09:42
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Did any other games do the Guild Wars thing where the towns were like they are in MMOs but you went out in an instanced world with your pals? I really like that and that you were limited to what spells you had equipped - I've never been a fan of the UI being 1/3 full of icons.
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Apr 16, 2021 14:08
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Ironslave posted:There's also that in an MMO about exploration in the same way, you'd have developers spending time creating assets and locations very few members of the playerbase are likely to see. This is, a far as time invested and player retention are concerned, wasted time. Strong disagree. An exploration game doesn't have to have assets players are unlikely to see, not sure why you think that's inherently a given. That's also an inherent problem with level-based MMOs anyways. Also considering it wasted time is also wrong if the point of the game is exploration. But all of that in a nebula means basically nothing, you need real hard numbers about the budget and expected sales before that begins to actually factor to meaning something. Consider Dark Souls. That game has lots of exploration. Most people who beat it (not everybody does) see most of the content, even with such a heavy exploration focus. There are hidden areas that some players may never see (painted world) but I wouldn't consider them "wasted" and with the modern wiki world, a large part of the playerbase ends up playing that "hidden" content anyways. Is Dark Souls a big waste of dev time? Nah it was a huge cultural zeitgeist and sold well. So I don't think any of the points you're making are like, guaranteed. Groovelord Neato posted:Did any other games do the Guild Wars thing where the towns were like they are in MMOs but you went out in an instanced world with your pals? I really like that and that you were limited to what spells you had equipped - I've never been a fan of the UI being 1/3 full of icons. Destiny, Division, Anthem, etc. Problem is all those games suck for other reasons. That's the new MMO model and IMO its the better way to do things. Designing zones big enough for hundreds of players is a mistake. People prefer more intimate spaces. As long as you can phase in and out millions of other players, you still have the MMO experience even if there's only ever 20 people in the same zone as you instead of 200. As long as that 20 comes from a pool of 2 million then you'll keep seeing new people and it'll still feel like an MMO. Also if the cities allow for thousands of players and trade, then you've got all the MMO feel you need. I'm waiting for someone to make a game like Destiny that doesn't suck. That'll be the next WoW. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 18:48
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Earth and Beyond was such a cool MMO where you could level a lot of different ways, including beyond a class specifically made for exploration. It came out in the pre wiki/data mining days though so it’s hard to know how it would translate into today’s gaming world.
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Apr 16, 2021 20:12
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Ort posted:Earth and Beyond was such a cool MMO where you could level a lot of different ways, including beyond a class specifically made for exploration. It came out in the pre wiki/data mining days though so it’s hard to know how it would translate into today’s gaming world. I remember playing the beta and thinking it had a really cool aesthetic for the time. But I think it was also a space game that was effectively a 2D plane?
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Apr 16, 2021 20:19
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On a 2D plane, and came out at around the same time as Eve-Online, and both required a monthly fee, so Eve-Online blew it out of the water, killing the player population.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:04
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Ort posted:Earth and Beyond was such a cool MMO where you could level a lot of different ways, including beyond a class specifically made for exploration. It came out in the pre wiki/data mining days though so it’s hard to know how it would translate into today’s gaming world. I always wanted to try it but it died before I got the chance..
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Apr 17, 2021 10:08
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Amazon has canceled the LOTR MMO. https://www.ign.com/articles/amazon-cancels-its-the-lord-of-the-rings-mmorpg
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Apr 17, 2021 21:41
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I’d love more LotR video game content but that’s probably for the best given Amazon Games’ track record.
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Apr 17, 2021 22:50
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Ehud posted:Amazon has canceled the LOTR MMO. Not at all surprised. Nothing was really known about it anyways, so no disappointment.
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Apr 17, 2021 22:57
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Amazon Game Studios, did anyone really expect otherwise?
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Apr 17, 2021 23:01
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Hopefully Amazon is just going to focus all of their attention now on New World.
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Apr 17, 2021 23:19
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Ehud posted:Amazon has canceled the LOTR MMO. those mother fuckers
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Apr 18, 2021 00:21
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I said come in! posted:Hopefully Amazon is just going to focus all of their attention now on New World. 
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Apr 18, 2021 00:40
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Yea the LotR nerd in me is sad to not have more Sweet Sweet Slop to consume but also I know the track record of Amazon doing poo poo like this so eh.
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Apr 18, 2021 01:16
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You didn't let me finish, all of their attention on canceling New World.
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Apr 18, 2021 05:06
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Amazon already blew their wad spending $465 million for the first season of the TV show they're producing. Cutbacks, you see.
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Apr 18, 2021 05:51
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8-bit Miniboss posted:Amazon already blew their wad spending $465 million for the first season of the TV show they're producing. Cutbacks, you see. oh no there's a lotr tv show coming? ungh.
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Apr 18, 2021 07:23
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Amazon LotR? What's it about, the uplifting of local peoples by Sharkey and friends?
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Apr 18, 2021 07:33
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Ehud posted:Amazon has canceled the LOTR MMO. Kind of glad, I was worried how it would impact LotRO, which I don't know how it's hobbling along these days I just have nostalgia glasses for it.
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Apr 18, 2021 08:16
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busalover posted:oh no there's a lotr tv show coming? ungh. Apparently Lord of the Rings in the style of Game of Thrones, with tons of sex, swearing and nudity. I'm not sure who asked for that, sounds terrible. LotR is pretty much the opposite of Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones, one is a lovingly crafted fantasy world with fun songs and the other makes you read weird rape scenes in the first 150 pages.
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Apr 18, 2021 11:03
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If they spend $465mm and Frodo doesn’t gently caress a pumpkin, what are we even watching it for
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Apr 18, 2021 15:24
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Freakazoid_ posted:Kind of glad, I was worried how it would impact LotRO, which I don't know how it's hobbling along these days I just have nostalgia glasses for it. No one plays that game anymore, so I was expecting it to shut down if Amazons MMO released. busalover posted:oh no there's a lotr tv show coming? ungh. Amazon's TV shows and movies have been the one thing that are consistently good from them. They have been a strong competitor against Netflix for the last few years. So I am not too worried about the show.
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Apr 18, 2021 16:14
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I might try it soon. Have they ever gone back and revamped the early stuff, like Star Trek Online does with its early missions?
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Apr 18, 2021 16:56
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galenanorth posted:I might try it soon. Have they ever gone back and revamped the early stuff, like Star Trek Online does with its early missions? They’ve done a few passes of zone revamps for older content. LotRO had a very special place in my heart and I spent a bunch of time last summer going through the Mordor and Minas Morgul content. There’s so much to do and see, especially if you have a love of the books. There are still the “collect 10 warg asses” quests but the epic quests are mostly great. Lore master is my favorite MMO class and I’ll never forget going through Moria for the first time.
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Apr 18, 2021 17:50
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same to all that, LotRO is not a very good MMO on the whole but if you love the IP it'll be fantastic just as a glorified 'walk around Middle Earth' simulator.
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Apr 18, 2021 18:09
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I dig LOTRO because it has that nice older mmo feel to it, but man do they need to do something about the UI for 4K monitors.
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Apr 18, 2021 18:29
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Groovelord Neato posted:Did any other games do the Guild Wars thing where the towns were like they are in MMOs but you went out in an instanced world with your pals? I really like that and that you were limited to what spells you had equipped - I've never been a fan of the UI being 1/3 full of icons. d&d online does the instances. there's a couple big quest hubs, and everything else is instanced pve dungeons. also, in true d&d fashion you only use ~5 skills/spells in combat 99% of the time because they ~the best~, but you need to have your inventory full of gear and scrolls for edge case enemies that are immune to various poo poo it's a decent dungeon crawler if you have 3-5 friends who will play with you. no level sync tho. also, kedo posted:but man do they need to do something about the UI for 4K monitors.
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Apr 18, 2021 18:42
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What MMOs that aren't FFXIV would you say have the most interesting and engaging crafting systems?
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Apr 18, 2021 19:39
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Truga posted:d&d online does the instances. there's a couple big quest hubs, and everything else is instanced pve dungeons. also, in true d&d fashion you only use ~5 skills/spells in combat 99% of the time because they ~the best~, but you need to have your inventory full of gear and scrolls for edge case enemies that are immune to various poo poo DDO with a guild full of chill dudes was one of my favorite MMO experiences. I still regret losing track of them after taking a break. Lots of combat puzzle type stuff depending on what builds you happened to have in your party. I think eventually people figured out builds that had saves to everything and could disarm any trap and pick any lock and cast any scroll and whatnot but I mostly had fun casting magic disco balls and making all the enemies dance.
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Apr 18, 2021 20:04
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Ambaire posted:What MMOs that aren't FFXIV would you say have the most interesting and engaging crafting systems? EVE Online?
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Apr 19, 2021 07:03
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Ambaire posted:What MMOs that aren't FFXIV would you say have the most interesting and engaging crafting systems? Vanguard: Saga of Heroes had a crafting system that was pretty complicated and engaging. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5snx6pcHg
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Apr 19, 2021 07:22
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It's ironic that my PC from 2012 can't play Runescape 3 at a frame rate higher than a snail, when Runescape was originally made for (or at least very known for being compatible with) much slower PCs than other games, but it can handle FFXIV at 25-30fps all right. Somehow Tutorial Island doesn't look as good as I remember Runescape 2 looking anyway
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Apr 20, 2021 17:50
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