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Mikl posted:Also (sorry the double-post) this sent me down a rabbit-hole of looking at old and terrible webcomics and apparently A.Diaz (of Dresden Codak) is trans?? "Transhumanism" doesn't count goddammit  Joking aside, good for her. I hope she's happier for it.
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Apr 17, 2021 17:14
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| # ? May 25, 2024 22:54 |
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from 2009-2012 inclusive i was very mean about webcomics, and i wish i could go back in time, slap myself, and say "you are pissing on people who are expressing themselves openly for the first time in their lives and you should not do it anymore"
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Apr 18, 2021 04:04
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Mikl posted:https://twitter.com/ComfyBasilisk/status/1383365687704317965 Turns out apparently over the course of 20 years of doing webcomics, Tim Buckley learned how to 1) draw, 2) write, and 3) have a sense of humour about himself and his work.
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Apr 18, 2021 08:51
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Dresden codak is incomprehensible to me these days tbh but I'm happy for her. The way some people seem to be mad about her getting positive attention is kinda gross though imo. Also holy poo poo CAD, I'd seen the art had genuinely improved a lot but last I'd seen the writing was still kinda garbo.
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Apr 18, 2021 15:00
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The xbox is experiencing gender dysphoria.
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Apr 18, 2021 16:04
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Apr 18, 2021 18:19
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oglaf is a treasure
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Apr 18, 2021 19:42
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Mr Phillby posted:Dresden codak is incomprehensible to me these days tbh but I'm happy for her. The way some people seem to be mad about her getting positive attention is kinda gross though imo. I honestly never got the Dresden Codak hate because like...what, Diaz drew character concepts for an X-Men AU and someone thought the concepts were bad? Stupid.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:00
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Android Blues posted:I honestly never got the Dresden Codak hate because like...what, Diaz drew character concepts for an X-Men AU and someone thought the concepts were bad? Stupid. No, Dresden Codak was hated long before that for being generally terrible (science as secular religion bullshit that goes into unironically believing the technological singularity is a thing, trying to act like drawing a fetish comic was a feminist act rather than drawing whatever you masturbate to, etc). The author being insufferable if anything colored reception of the X-Men AU designs which I mostly remember being unremarkable?
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Apr 18, 2021 21:29
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Dresden Codak was some very pretty art around some mostly bad ideas that were actually mitigated by the comic having lovely panel layouts and poor writing so it takes effort to figure out what the comic was actually trying to say.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:40
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the last i'd heard of dresden codak before this conversation was that the author retconned kimiko's nationality from japanese to korean in some dumb way that i can't actually remember any details about
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Apr 18, 2021 21:46
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Android Blues posted:I honestly never got the Dresden Codak hate because like...what, Diaz drew character concepts for an X-Men AU and someone thought the concepts were bad? Stupid. What I remember, at least, is that Diaz more or less got a reputation for being the Joss Whedon of webcomics, i.e. making stuff with lots of cheesecake-y shots/panels, female characters being under- or undressed with surprising frequency, a recurring focus on something that's probably the creator's fetish (women's bare feet for Whedon, I think amputees or something for Diaz; there was something that blew up about amputee porn being used as reference material for Dresden Codak at some point at least, I don't remember the details), and so on, but because it features "strong" female characters (possibly another thing the author is into actually) the creator proudly declares that it's progressive/feminist and that they are a good ally (despite often ignoring or dismissing concerns women may have with, say, everything I just described). Not sure if you saw that one comic Mary Cagle did about that sort of phenomenon (since it's definitely not unique to Whedon or Diaz, though I'm pretty sure Diaz was one of the specific inspirations here), but if not, it and a summary of this stuff can be seen here (bit of cartoon-y NSFW stuff there, given the material it's making fun of), and in response to it Diaz getting mad about it Magnolia Porter wrote this open letter (Edit: Includes some panels from DC as examples of what she's talking about, and those are also pretty NSFW), which goes into stuff in more detail. (As a note, given that this stuff is from 2014, it all refers to Diaz as male.) (Edit again: Oh hey, the summary in the first link covers the thing with the "amputee photo shoots" too.) Also, as others have already mentioned, some people just didn't like the webcomic or other stuff. Those AUs, for example, got some flak for things like sometimes missing the point of the original work, or the redesigns themselves exemplifying issues Diaz was calling out in the originals. Such as, again, sexualizing the female characters, just in a somewhat different way (that is, one more to Diaz's personal tastes) in the redesign. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 22:04
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flatluigi posted:the last i'd heard of dresden codak before this conversation was that the author retconned kimiko's nationality from japanese to korean in some dumb way that i can't actually remember any details about I think it turns out her father, who was Japanese, was essentially a fictional mascot of the company that runs the city in a Remington Steele type situation, and they forced a random Korean guy who came to the city to assume the identity, and he adopted Kimiko. Why they didn't even bother to get someone of the right ethnicity to be their fake founder, I don't know.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:17
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Yvonmukluk posted:I think it turns out her father, who was Japanese, was essentially a fictional mascot of the company that runs the city in a Remington Steele type situation, and they forced a random Korean guy who came to the city to assume the identity, and he adopted Kimiko. Why they didn't even bother to get someone of the right ethnicity to be their fake founder, I don't know. The lengths people will go to to fetishize specific nationalities from the MYSTERIOUS EAST, I swear to god.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:28
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Roland Jones posted:Also, as others have already mentioned, some people just didn't like the webcomic or other stuff. Those AUs, for example, got some flak for things like sometimes missing the point of the original work, or the redesigns themselves exemplifying issues Diaz was calling out in the originals. Such as, again, sexualizing the female characters, just in a somewhat different way (that is, one more to Diaz's personal tastes) in the redesign. And what's funny is Diaz is still doing it and isn't wrong in her examples but is going about it in a hypocritical 'do as I say, not as I do.' Like 'this character from popular manga series is overly sexualized!' and you're like, sure, and then in the very latest update 'also here is a character without her shirt on.' "It's sex positive when *I* do it" seems to sum up her work.
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Apr 18, 2021 23:30
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fetishes for me, not for thee
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Apr 19, 2021 00:00
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People were wrong the whole time, it wasnt fetishism it was self insert wish fulfillment! Okay, maybe not, but Kimiko always *did* read a bit like an idealized self insert character, especially based on what I know of the guy from before he started making comics (they were a regular on several EZboards I also frequented back in the day and we interacted a surprising amount).
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Apr 19, 2021 00:04
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GlyphGryph posted:People were wrong the whole time, it wasnt fetishism it was self insert wish fulfillment! please remember that even if you don't like someone you should still gender them correctly
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Apr 19, 2021 00:10
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Yeah that was my bad. Wasn't related to liking them or not though (I actually do, unlike most goons) just didn't think of it.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:23
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Roland Jones posted:What I remember, at least, is that Diaz more or less got a reputation for being the Joss Whedon of webcomics, i.e. making stuff with lots of cheesecake-y shots/panels, female characters being under- or undressed with surprising frequency, a recurring focus on something that's probably the creator's fetish (women's bare feet for Whedon, I think amputees or something for Diaz; there was something that blew up about amputee porn being used as reference material for Dresden Codak at some point at least, I don't remember the details), and so on, but because it features "strong" female characters (possibly another thing the author is into actually) the creator proudly declares that it's progressive/feminist and that they are a good ally (despite often ignoring or dismissing concerns women may have with, say, everything I just described). Not sure if you saw that one comic Mary Cagle did about that sort of phenomenon (since it's definitely not unique to Whedon or Diaz, though I'm pretty sure Diaz was one of the specific inspirations here), but if not, it and a summary of this stuff can be seen here (bit of cartoon-y NSFW stuff there, given the material it's making fun of), and in response to it Diaz getting mad about it Magnolia Porter wrote this open letter (Edit: Includes some panels from DC as examples of what she's talking about, and those are also pretty NSFW), which goes into stuff in more detail. (As a note, given that this stuff is from 2014, it all refers to Diaz as male.) (Edit again: Oh hey, the summary in the first link covers the thing with the "amputee photo shoots" too.) The bit you're talking about was where Diaz drew a pinup of Kimiko that was "inspired by amputee porn" with some justification under it about how it was empowering. Mary Cagle made a comic on tumblr that was partially a joke about that, Diaz sent her a message about her being a "little poo poo". That started a discourse around Magnolia Porter's blog post, and the pinup art went down for a while. Then it went back up after Diaz said amputees emailed them support. The Zelda redesigns seemed alright, not really that novel but not bad. The X-Men ones were kind of weird, like making Storm a child soldier war criminal as some way of "fixing" her origin story I guess?
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Apr 19, 2021 01:00
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I think I personally piled onto the Dresden Codak because I was mad about things in my real life and seeking an outlet! And it would not surprise me if most/all of webcomics poo poo culture was not just that but times 700,000, or whatever number of people read webcomics. As opposed to like, the zelda drawings being an actual locus of anything worth hating
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Apr 19, 2021 01:30
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i remember very vividly from the xmen redesigns that xavier's wheelchair was something he did for attention and not something he needed which i am pretty sure was a point of valid contention in trying to reconcile a person's vision with an established character's entire uh, deal.
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Apr 19, 2021 01:36
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I enjoyed Dresden Codak back when it didn't have an ongoing storyline, and was just one-off comics about different scientific/philosophical concepts that happened to share characters.
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Apr 19, 2021 01:38
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Nuns with Guns posted:The bit you're talking about was where Diaz drew a pinup of Kimiko that was "inspired by amputee porn" with some justification under it about how it was empowering. Mary Cagle made a comic on tumblr that was partially a joke about that, Diaz sent her a message about her being a "little poo poo". That started a discourse around Magnolia Porter's blog post, and the pinup art went down for a while. Then it went back up after Diaz said amputees emailed them support. The X design I remember the most was Kitty’s where Diaz... just made her bustier. And I think Rogue was almost just her Evolution design (which is not a flaw, that’s good but not really a redesign).
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Apr 19, 2021 01:43
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Diaz is someone who is an excellent (if slow) artist, but who desperately needs a writer/co-author, or at least someone to sanity check her ideas.
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Apr 19, 2021 02:32
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fun hater posted:i remember very vividly from the xmen redesigns that xavier's wheelchair was something he did for attention and not something he needed which i am pretty sure was a point of valid contention in trying to reconcile a person's vision with an established character's entire uh, deal. You can level any individual critique about her work and be technically right, but there was a weird bile to the group mentality every time one of those got posted. Did I need to invest emotion in someone imagining worse X-men? The X-men suck! But they MIGHT be better with Guy Caballero. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAFF5YcPhm8&t=3433s
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Apr 19, 2021 03:42
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Apr 19, 2021 04:53
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PMush Perfect posted:Diaz is someone who is an excellent (if slow) artist, but who desperately needs a writer/co-author, or at least someone to sanity check her ideas.
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Apr 19, 2021 04:56
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The Ritual (2017)
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Apr 19, 2021 06:05
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Maybe my brain was broken, but I could never get into Dresden. Sure, the art was good, but all I remember is that it was all behind an impenetrable, hard to follow wall of text. I did like in her X-Men propsal that she reimagined Colossus as a wannabe superhero.
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Apr 19, 2021 07:15
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I could care less about most of the Diaz stuff to worry, and I definitely have no hatred at all, but I know I was among many scratching their head at someone releasing maybe a couple comic strips a year for like a decade and a bit of side stuff and still pulling in 5-6 figures a year on patreon alone, in addition to whatever else. I remember some mass frustration with that having a bit to do with it, I don't know about now. I can't draw to save my life, but I have to admit being a bit jealous with having that gig.
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Apr 19, 2021 08:18
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Twenty Four posted:I remember some mass frustration with that having a bit to do with it, I don't know about now. I can't draw to save my life, but I have to admit being a bit jealous with having that gig.
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Apr 19, 2021 08:23
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Getting proper mad at something as milquetoast as QC is a powerful self-own imho.
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Apr 19, 2021 22:08
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QC has a strange power in that I don't think it's good, have numerous critiques to make of the comic from its lack of stakes to its model depending on teasing relationships to its meandering nature, and I don't find any of the characters interesting or consistent and have criticisms at how certain elements of them are depicted- Yet every day for three years now I've checked in to read the latest one. I didn't even realize how long I'd been doing it until I checked how far back certain characters were introduced and realized it was a thousand strips ago. I'm probably going to be checking it for years more, even though I have no desire to go back and read it from the beginning. I don't know why it has that kind of hold, but getting upset at something so bland and inoffensive probably says more about the person than any remarks they might have about it.
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Apr 20, 2021 00:46
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perepelki posted:i never was able to get into dresden (though there were a few good pages) but i really loved her art tips on tumblr I actually did too but found it unintentionally hilarious (and kinda hosed up?) that in one she drew her characters in underwear and then later in another post did the same thing only with them naked because I guess can you truly know a character's silhouette unless you know if they're shaved? TwoPair fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 02:11
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I liked when Avatar Legend of Kora came out and readers saw a new fetish awaken in real time as Kimiko morphed from a waif into a muscle girl.
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Apr 20, 2021 03:02
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This topic makes me think of an observation I've noticed: There's a bunch of people online who are def dillweeds who deserve some flack but sure as hell did not deserve the full brunt of the internet mockery machine that came down on them; but the fact that they are dillweeds made it so that people who would go "hang on now, I think things are going a bit far" take a bit longer to reach that realization. Dobson's like a prime example of this.
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Apr 20, 2021 04:26
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In general I was kind of waiting to find out what Dresden Codak's views on science and its place in modern culture were going to be, and because the art was pretty it took me a long time to realize that Diaz doesn't actually have any more views to share. Her surface-level deep adoration of Science and Having a Cool Robot Body are in fact her sincere and complete opinions on the topic. The villains are total weirdos because obviously that's how somebody who doesn't like Science would be, and if they don't actually match up with any living person's opinions, oh, well.
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Apr 20, 2021 04:35
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bclev/8-bit-theater-20th-anniversary-book-wait-20-years-son-of-a Well, that's one way to do something with the borderline-infringing long-running strip that basically got you a real job!
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Apr 20, 2021 05:20
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| # ? May 25, 2024 22:54 |
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Pyroclastic posted:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bclev/8-bit-theater-20th-anniversary-book-wait-20-years-son-of-a i love this. what a great workaround
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Apr 20, 2021 06:18
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