(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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dmboogie posted:bethesda obviously wants you to care about their stories, though? like just look at fallout 3’s hour long unskippable intro, that’s not an excuse plot that’s just a failure to tell a compelling story yeah the Fallout 3 and 4 intros are indefensible. I can't conceive what the gently caress were they thinking with either of them the fact that they introduce and then kill off your spouse in Fallout 4 in the space of like five minutes feels like it's supposed to be a joke. Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 21:07
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Alaois posted:i swear to god half this thread huffs paint We're all paint sniffing survivors
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Apr 18, 2021 21:11
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Grunch Worldflower posted:You know, I'd probably get a kick out of a Cinema Sins style thing but they *only* do wrong nitpicks, like do "Everything Wrong With Godzilla vs Kong" but all your critiques are about how it doesn't make any sense as a sequel to Pacific Rim. You're going to be kicking yourself after I steal this idea and then make $15.000 a month on Patreon from it. Meanwhile One Piece. Aw I can't believe the giant survived. This is wholesome as a gently caress. I remember that scene where the crab got shot through the head and it seemed kind of gruesome. I don't remember anyone or anything so distinctly dying in this franchise so far. Just finished season 2 and it seems only animal and animal characters get to die but boy do they die a ton and in messed up ways. Naturally Namis shirt was burned off so I can see where this franchise is going  Painting girl was kind of cool. Sadly she got eaten by a duck so RIP I guess. Katt fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 21:14
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Casey Finnigan posted:yeah the Fallout 3 and 4 intros are indefensible. I can't conceive what the gently caress were they thinking with either of them Meanwhile in New Vegas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZemoNbqwI
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Apr 18, 2021 21:15
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Honestly I think one of the big problems with Bethesda's writing for franchises like Fallout and, to a lesser extent, The Elder Scrolls is that they seem to fundamentally not understand what their fanbase likes about these games. The thing that the Majority of the playerbase seems to really enjoy about these games is the wide, open-world gameplay and the ability for players to basically go where they want, do what they want, and define their characters the way they want. You can see this in the sort of mods that are most popular with the playerbase, the majority of which are ones that increase the wealth of choice available to the players. The problem with this is that the main narrative of these open-world titles has become increasingly linear and (To borrow a term from tabletop gaming) rail-roady. This is most present in Fallout 4 because the game imposes a very specific backstory onto your character by making them a parent looking for their lost child in the post apocalypse, which ends up being at odds with the expectations of players who want to define their character outside the confines of that role.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:17
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Somebody post that video where the head writer for FO3, FO4, FO76, and Skyrim is doing a panel and talks about how the lesson he took away from players not heavily engaging with his stories is that gamers actually don't care about story.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:20
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Groovelord Neato posted:Cinema Sins was always bad. I stumbled upon the channel years back assuming it'd be cataloguing actual goofs in films but it was unfunny nitpicks. It might've got worse over the years (I've only consumed it through Shaun and bob's takedowns) but it didn't start from a very high place. I think most of the appeal of Cinema Sins is a way for teens who don't have money/attention span/interest to watch a full film to ''watch'' it. Most of the review channels that just present a chronological summary of events with some colour commentary run off the same appeal.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:22
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Sydin posted:Somebody post that video where the head writer for FO3, FO4, FO76, and Skyrim is doing a panel and talks about how the lesson he took away from players not heavily engaging with his stories is that gamers actually don't care about story. its been posted twice in the last like, 5 pages Arcsquad12 posted:Obligatory Emil Pagliarulo video: Alaois fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Apr 18, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 21:24
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Groovelord Neato posted:Cinema Sins was always bad. I stumbled upon the channel years back assuming it'd be cataloguing actual goofs in films but it was unfunny nitpicks. It might've got worse over the years (I've only consumed it through Shaun and bob's takedowns) but it didn't start from a very high place. I had a brief time where I enjoyed Cinema Sins and just lightly zinging dumb poo poo in movies, but it didn’t last very long. Honestly, their “What’s The Damage?” videos were much better and funnier, especially the Blues Brothers one where they just kind of gave up even trying to guess what the dollar amount per item was by the time the Bluesmobile makes it into the mall.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQgIjlkMrw&ab_channel=Cherobu
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Apr 18, 2021 21:46
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Katt posted:You're going to be kicking yourself after I steal this idea and then make $15.000 a month on Patreon from it.
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Apr 18, 2021 21:58
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Vagabong posted:I think most of the appeal of Cinema Sins is a way for teens who don't have money/attention span/interest to watch a full film to ''watch'' it. Most of the review channels that just present a chronological summary of events with some colour commentary run off the same appeal. Yeah. Dead Meat at least seems to recognize this because the host will almost beg viewers to watch the actual flick before his video for the movies he really likes.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:40
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With Cinema Sins especially there’s an air of “This movie is bad and here’s why”, so people will often latch onto that reasoning despite half the time it’s either an incorrect thing or something a character does that isn’t the most logical or perfect choice to deal with the situation, even if there’s no way the character has information the audience does.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:56
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Alaois posted:its been posted twice in the last like, 5 pages "You probably don't recognize this man's face" [Posts Hayao Miyazaki]
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Apr 18, 2021 23:05
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Captain Invictus posted:wow, for a fairly basic upgrade that still looks quite a bit better. I'm almost tempted to get it, but I don't really like how they changed the gameplay from 1 to 2, and never played 3. too each there own. i preordered my copy at gamestop which is something i havent done in years. that trilogy got me through some hard loving times. can't wait to dip back in.
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Apr 18, 2021 23:22
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bobjr posted:With Cinema Sins especially there’s an air of “This movie is bad and here’s why”, so people will often latch onto that reasoning despite half the time it’s either an incorrect thing or something a character does that isn’t the most logical or perfect choice to deal with the situation, even if there’s no way the character has information the audience does. And if you call this out, fans and CS themselves immediately retreat to "it's just a JOKE guys, not a serious review".
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Apr 19, 2021 00:09
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Neo_Crimson posted:And if you call this out, fans and CS themselves immediately retreat to "it's just a JOKE guys, not a serious review". This has always been the defense of opinionated internet guys way too into themselves. Just like Yahtzee and his zero punctuation videos. When people liked them he'd talk hot poo poo as a Serious Videogame Critic and write essays about how playing as a gay in dragon age changed his life. But when people didn't like them he'd talk about how he's like, totally just a comedian and you shouldn't take him seriously and write an essay about how everyone's just a big dumb baby for expecting him to have any opinion worth listening to on a game.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:16
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dmboogie posted:bethesda obviously wants you to care about their stories, though? like just look at fallout 3’s hour long unskippable intro, that’s not an excuse plot that’s just a failure to tell a compelling story Vault 101 is long-winded and unskippable but it has almost nothing to do with Bethesda trying to rub the player's nose in their Grande Visione of a story or whatever. It's because it's an exhaustive tutorial/vertical slice of the entire game to come. Not exactly a wild thing for a game from 2008 to pull, even.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:20
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Katt posted:I remember back in the day people used to smug about how Bioware hired actual writers while other studies let the designers do the writing. But I never felt that Bioware games had writing that was above all other games. Just a lot more writing (someone had to make the ten thousand bazzilion codex entries I assume). There was tons of other games that had stories and characters that were easily as interesting and captivating. They competently executed on bland stories with unoriginal premises, and that was ahead of the pack at the time. KOTOR is a walking tour of Star Wars locations that are just obscure enough for nerds to feel cool about recognising them, strung together with some ok character writing and the most basic plotting imaginable. Mass Effect is "what if Star Control 3 wasn't presented via hideous puppets reading recycled dialogue".
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Apr 19, 2021 00:20
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Dabir posted:They competently executed on bland stories with unoriginal premises, and that was ahead of the pack at the time. KOTOR is a walking tour of Star Wars locations that are just obscure enough for nerds to feel cool about recognising them, strung together with some ok character writing and the most basic plotting imaginable. Mass Effect is "what if Star Control 3 wasn't presented via hideous puppets reading recycled dialogue". This is a major thing that tends to crop up in more niche, nerd-focused mediums where works that show basic competency of storytelling and writing are heralded as genius because most of the competition doesn't even meet the most basic expectations. When all someone consumes is schlock, a work with even the most basic competency seems amazing. To carry with the Star Wars theme: Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy of novels is heralded as some sort of transcendent work of literature by people who are really serious about old Star Wars expanded universe novels, but that's mostly because those people only read Star Wars tie-in novels most of which are...not well written. It's also a problem I've run into as a comic book fan who specifically ascribes to the "comics are art" paradigm because, while a lot of people who push that idea believe that comics, as a medium, can be used to tell deep, meaningful stories; you also end up sharing space with people who don't actually care about progressing the medium forward to tell more complex stories and just want people to think of comics as art because it lends an air of legitimacy to the poo poo they're already consuming. They don't want comics to tell deeper stories, they want people to think they're big smarty-smarts for reading nothing but Spider-Man.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:34
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Eh, shlock is art too. Things aren’t art just because they’re deep or meaningful.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:42
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No but the people he's talking about are the ones who get very aggressive about their schlock and end up writing twitter rants about a dumb Martin Scorsese quote.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:44
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KingKalamari posted:This is a major thing that tends to crop up in more niche, nerd-focused mediums where works that show basic competency of storytelling and writing are heralded as genius because most of the competition doesn't even meet the most basic expectations. When all someone consumes is schlock, a work with even the most basic competency seems amazing. I thought it was because it was literally the first time they went beyond the movie canon, and everyone got insanely psyched up because the story of Star Wars was continuing. I read them, and don't remember much about them at all. Until I googled them I didn't even remember it was about the clones. I know the Dark Horse comics that followed up were equally popular despite also being completely insane. It was like the DBZ power creep but for spaceships and weapons of mass destruction. Also, the recent movies basically lifted the entire main plot from that comics series, and the SW nerds lost their loving minds at it calling it a dogshit terrible story. pentyne fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 00:45
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Thrawn is nowhere near the first time. Splinter of the Mind's Eye came out in the 70s as a book sequel to Star Wars in case it flopped. There was also the Marvel Comics all through the 80s before Marvel lost the rights and Dark Horse started publishing star wars comics.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:49
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Arcsquad12 posted:No but the people he's talking about are the ones who get very aggressive about their schlock and end up writing twitter rants about a dumb Martin Scorsese quote. Exactly, there's nothing wrong with enjoying schlock or popcorn fiction and there's definitely an artistry involved in making those sorts of works; but as a consumer you need to keep in mind the nature of what you're consuming and what it's trying to achieve as a piece of media. While there's definitely analysis to be made of the most recent Marvel blockbluster movie, if you try to compare it intellectually to, say, a French Arthouse film*, you're gonna have a bad time. *-Using a generic description so as not to derail the conversation about the artistic merit of the example I chose
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Apr 19, 2021 00:50
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You can compare a marvel movie to a French Althouse film and have a good time. The people who take this poo poo way too seriously would rather argue that Marvel is the epitome and the Althouse film is trash undeserving of the title or critique ascribed to it. It's not about Marvel being seen as art, it's about art only being Marvel and replacing the current definition out of spite.
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Apr 19, 2021 01:04
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I'm looking to get into A More Civilized Age, what's the best avenue to watch all of the cgi clone wars movie/show? I was just going to get the boxed set but there seems to be more seasons than are included in the "complete collection".
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Apr 19, 2021 01:51
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There was a partial 6th season called something like Lost Missions which was basically just unreleased episodes compiled in a direct to DVD set, not sure if those are available anywhere besides that set. Then as part of a Disney+ promo they made another half season to do a big Grande Finale for the series (despite, uh, Rebels already having tied off most of those plot threads) which presumably is only available on Disney+
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Apr 19, 2021 01:57
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WHAT, so I only just learned this on Mass Effect talk one more time, because I'm starting that trilogy now after years of not playing and sifting through some not big alterations mods. "As part of a workaround for a programming issue, Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale voiced all of the lines for both human romances in Mass Effect even though the romances were intended to be exclusively heterosexual. As these voiced lines remain in the game, Kaidan and Ashley can be romanced by same-sex Shepards through the use of save edits, although some of the dialogue options are missing and Shepard will be addressed as a member of the opposite sex." Modders have thankfully also long since fixed the misgendering lines among other bits, a lot of this unused dual audio deal extends into ME2 and 3 and has been modded there as well, so you can gay Thane or Garrus it up too. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 02:11
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Captain Invictus posted:I'm looking to get into A More Civilized Age, what's the best avenue to watch all of the cgi clone wars movie/show? I was just going to get the boxed set but there seems to be more seasons than are included in the "complete collection". Disney Plus has everything Clone Wars and Rebels related. There are viewing orders out there because several episodes and story arcs are told in a non linear fashion but really you're better off watching from start to finish. Otherwise you'll spoil the mood by throwing the godawful pilot film into the midway point of season 1. Suffer through the film if you must and then proceed with the show. A lot of people find season 1 to be the worst but I disagree. It's uneven as hell but so are are other seasons and S1 ends really strong and even the bad episodes tend to lead into good ones. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 02:16
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Arcsquad12 posted:You can compare a marvel movie to a French Althouse film and have a good time. The people who take this poo poo way too seriously would rather argue that Marvel is the epitome and the Althouse film is trash undeserving of the title or critique ascribed to it. It's not about Marvel being seen as art, it's about art only being Marvel and replacing the current definition out of spite. Its like when people frame superhero films as a modern mythology a la the Illiad and other Greek myths; its not really about evaluating two separate cultural products on their own merits, but about scoring 2nd hand prestige the importance traditionally placed on classical literature in Western society. Not that fans puffing up the importance of the stuff they enjoy is unique to superhero fans or anything.
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Apr 19, 2021 02:22
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Yardbomb posted:WHAT, so I only just learned this on Mass Effect talk one more time, because I'm starting that trilogy now after years of not playing and sifting through some not big alterations mods. Not Tali?
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Apr 19, 2021 02:45
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Vagabong posted:Its like when people frame superhero films as a modern mythology a la the Illiad and other Greek myths; its not really about evaluating two separate cultural products on their own merits, but about scoring 2nd hand prestige the importance traditionally placed on classical literature in Western society. I feel like superheroes and a lot of myths are genuinely pretty similar, but I say that largely as a knock on mythology
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Apr 19, 2021 02:54
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Yardbomb posted:WHAT, so I only just learned this on Mass Effect talk one more time, because I'm starting that trilogy now after years of not playing and sifting through some not big alterations mods. Reminds me how Axton in Borderlands 2 was accidentally made bi when voice lines meant for when he revived female team mates could trigger for anyone. He subsequently makes references to it in DLC.
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Apr 19, 2021 02:59
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Dawgstar posted:Not Tali? Tali wasn't like an actual romance path in 1, but she's an option for femShep in 2 with it's mod as well and going into 3 by the same mod creator as well. It even does small things like tweak the flirts that would only be for femShep to get for manShep and other small cool bits. Funny enough though, it made another modder behind one of the big overhaul things, ReCalibrated, write up a giant rear end post about how the mods aren't and won't be compatible with his because "W-WELL, IT WOULD GO AGAINST BIOWARE'S INTENTIONS THAT THESE CHARACTERS ARE STRAIGHT" and similar lame excuse making, likening it to making Jacob white or Tali male, which is a hell of a stretch. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 03:24
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Vagabong posted:Its like when people frame superhero films as a modern mythology a la the Illiad and other Greek myths; its not really about evaluating two separate cultural products on their own merits, but about scoring 2nd hand prestige the importance traditionally placed on classical literature in Western society. I don't think it's just that. The weakening of religion and myth has been a problem for hundreds of years and people have been trying to create new sources of meaning for just as long. Art tends to be the natural recourse because it's a communal activity that imparts meaning to all our lives. Grant Morrison wrote a book about it https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004J4WL7S/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 But on the larger importance of art, I've recently been reading Tolstoy's "What is Art?" and while I don't agree with all of it , this part stuck out to me quote:The artist of the future w r ill understand that to compose a fairy-tale, a little song which will touch, a lullaby or a riddle which will entertain, a jest which will amuse, or to draw a sketch which will delight dozens of generations or millions of children and adults, is incomparably more important and more fruitful than to compose a novel or a symphony, or paint a picture which will divert some members of the wealthy classes for a short time, and then be for ever forgotten. The region of this art of the simple feelings accessible to all is enormous, and it is as yet almost untouched. Basically, I'd like "high art" to reach more people but it doesn't so comic books and video games and movies are probably more important. Please don't think The Matrix or Evangelion is the peak of philosophy but if it at least gets people started on the road to reading more...in depth philosophy, great.
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Apr 19, 2021 03:25
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Arcsquad12 posted:Disney Plus has everything Clone Wars and Rebels related. There are viewing orders out there because several episodes and story arcs are told in a non linear fashion but really you're better off watching from start to finish. Otherwise you'll spoil the mood by throwing the godawful pilot film into the midway point of season 1. Suffer through the film if you must and then proceed with the show. alright, thanks!
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Apr 19, 2021 03:37
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Watch Clone Wars in broadcast order. Watch most things in broadcast order unless the creators complain/home media disagrees (a la Ducktales) and even then sometimes ignore them.
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Apr 19, 2021 04:07
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DoctorWhat posted:Watch Clone Wars in broadcast order. Watch most things in broadcast order unless the creators complain/home media disagrees (a la Ducktales) and even then sometimes ignore them.  Broadcast order is often the worst thing to go by, because management arbitrarily decides "well we need an exciting episode here, and this one will play better in a ratings week" paying zero attention to continuity.
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Apr 19, 2021 04:23
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I don't think there's that much difference in some functions between historical myth making and superheros as modern parables. However, superheroes are also branded IPs. And a lot of the people going "When you're writing superheros you're ~adding to Modern American mythology~" are blowing a lot of smoke up your rear end to disguise the reality that a writer is being sent the IP to farm story ideas from as part of the latest in a long history of exploitative exchanges like that in a lovely, lovely industry. Grant Morrison is good people though and their stuff rules.
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Apr 19, 2021 04:29
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