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Gaupo Guacho posted:my dad suggested something about a mistrial? I was pretty confident wed get at least a conviction on one count but freaking out a bit now The mistrial threat was from the judge over if the prosecution said certain things. And that kinda already fell apart. Hung jury? Probably. 3 of the jurors have relatives who are pigs.
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Apr 15, 2021 16:45
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Gaupo Guacho posted:my dad suggested something about a mistrial? I was pretty confident wed get at least a conviction on one count but freaking out a bit now He may have been talking about at the start of today's proceeding where the council was talking with the judge. The prosecution had submitted evidence regarding carbon monoxide levels in Mr. Floyd's blood after Dr. Fowler's testimony, and the judge was saying that they can't accept it because it's way too late in the hearing. The judge said something to the affect of "Allowing this evidence so late would open the door to a mistrial since the defense wouldn't have time to properly prepare, so I must show prejudice on the side of the defense and not allow this evidence to come forth." This is why the prosecution ended up going with the questions blood-oxygen saturation in relation to carbon-monoxide saturation. E: Example, "Mr. Floyd's oxygen saturation was 98%. That means that there couldn't have been more than 2% CO saturation, correct"
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Apr 15, 2021 16:56
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Pat Robertson has some thoughts on police shootings and Chauven, and they aren't what you're expecting https://twitter.com/wkamaubell/status/1382741800725536769?s=20
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Apr 15, 2021 18:39
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text editor posted:Pat Robertson has some thoughts on police shootings and Chauven, and they aren't what you're expecting some evangelicals are loving weird. like the dude is a loving monster but he has said weirdly woke stuff about police shootings and other stuff in the past.
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Apr 15, 2021 19:17
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He looks like the Cryptkeeper
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Apr 16, 2021 02:04
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Velocity Raptor posted:He may have been talking about at the start of today's proceeding where the council was talking with the judge. The prosecution had submitted evidence regarding carbon monoxide levels in Mr. Floyd's blood after Dr. Fowler's testimony, and the judge was saying that they can't accept it because it's way too late in the hearing. The crux of the issue is that the state had months to prepare a counter to the CO hypothesis but chose not to because they considered it ridiculous, but now they want to be able to change their case.
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Apr 16, 2021 02:47
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Judge is closing off an avenue for the defence to appeal.
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Apr 16, 2021 02:52
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Velocity Raptor posted:E: Example, "Mr. Floyd's oxygen saturation was 98%. That means that there couldn't have been more than 2% CO saturation, correct" I hope not. Pulse oximetry only measures bound hemoglobin under the assumption that it is bound by oxygen. It would not necessarily read lower on a carbon monoxide poisoned person, because it cannot differentiate carboxyhemoglobin.
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Apr 16, 2021 03:05
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I assume you do not perform pulse oximetry on a dead person.
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Apr 16, 2021 03:14
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The Lone Badger posted:I assume you do not perform pulse oximetry on a dead person. Person can have carbon monoxide poisoning and be alive In addition you can hit up a recently died dude up with some saturation meters because showing up to the scene, you might not know how dead they are. Very recent dead isn’t necessary something you can tell in a blink of an eye.
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Apr 16, 2021 03:21
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I meant, the determination of Floyd's oxygen sat was likely not done using pulse oximetry as by the time he was examined he did not have a pulse.
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Apr 16, 2021 03:25
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Vahakyla posted:Person can have carbon monoxide poisoning and be alive then i give you the next court witness. 
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Apr 16, 2021 03:35
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LeeMajors posted:I hope not. I mean, that's literally the question the prosecution asked. https://lawofselfdefense.com/chauvin-trial-day-14-wrap-up-mistrial-narrowly-avoided-closing-arguments-monday/ Article posted:First, the state claimed that the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, Dr. Thomas Baker, after hearing Fowler’s testimony yesterday on the carbon dioxide issue, had somehow dug into the hospital’s records and found that Floyd’s blood concentration of CO had, in fact, been measured at the time—but had never been previously produced when the parties had subpoenaed Floyd’s medical records.
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Apr 16, 2021 05:41
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The Lone Badger posted:I assume you do not perform pulse oximetry on a dead person. Sure. I’m just saying even that’s a bad argument bc you can’t use SpO2 to determine level of CO poisoning. Or rule it out.
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Apr 16, 2021 19:20
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LeeMajors posted:Sure. I’m just saying even that’s a bad argument bc you can’t use SpO2 to determine level of CO poisoning. Or rule it out. My understanding is they tested the blood directly for it....would that be valid? Dr Tobin seems to think so
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Apr 16, 2021 19:40
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LeeMajors posted:Sure. I’m just saying even that’s a bad argument bc you can’t use SpO2 to determine level of CO poisoning. Or rule it out. It depends on what exactly you are measuring and what your measurement method would be confounded with. You're trying to measure oxygen saturation (either arterial or peripheral, I don't think it matters). Hemoglobin that's binding carbon monoxide instead is not binding oxygen, so high SpO2 definitionally means no CO poisoning A measurement of free vs bound hemoglobin (which you might use to infer oxygen saturation if you weren't worried about CO poisoning) won't tell the difference, but that doesn't mean no method can tell the difference. Actual SpO2 & SaO2 are low during CO poisoning, some measurement methods will just falsely report them as high (Though I would expect Floyd's oxygen saturation to be low, since he was choked to death) Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 20:47
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Foxfire_ posted:(Though I would expect Floyd's oxygen saturation to be low, since he was choked to death) Not quite I think. I had a heart condition last summer where my blood oxygen was 98% all the time, but I was getting wild dizzy spells when I exerted myself or even stood up. From not enough of the blood getting to my brain. Your blood can be working fine, just it had no where to go, or was being restricted by something. They are trying to show his blood was fine, to show instead it was the knee restricting both breathing in and the blood getting to his brain in enough amounts to keep him alive.
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Apr 16, 2021 21:35
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The knee was on the side of the neck, his blood oxygen could have been absolutely fine. He could (theoretically) have been breathing normally past unconsciousness right up till he died. That kind of 'choke' prevents oxygenated blood going to the brain, it doesn't stop oxygen getting to the lungs. Even crueller, he might have been just fine had the knee been released the moment he stopped responding. If it was the front of the neck, he would have needed cpr to recover as he would have no oxygenated blood
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Apr 17, 2021 07:56
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jiggerypokery posted:The knee was on the side of the neck, his blood oxygen could have been absolutely fine. He could (theoretically) have been breathing normally past unconsciousness right up till he died. That kind of 'choke' prevents oxygenated blood going to the brain, it doesn't stop oxygen getting to the lungs. You can't say this with anywhere near the certainty or precision with which you have. Depending on where on the neck the knee is placed, how broad an area, and how much pressure is applied you absolutely can compress the trachea from the side.
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Apr 18, 2021 16:05
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We're never going to know exactly what happened, what matters is that there's no credible reason for Floyd to have died other than Chauvin kneeling on his neck for nearly ten minutes, long after he had gone unresponsive, long after any excuse to stay on Floyd's neck was long gone. If Chauvin had simply gotten up within a minute or so after Floyd went limp maybe no one would have died, but Chauvin may as well have put a bullet in Floyd's head, it would have been done with both the same intent and the same results.
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Apr 18, 2021 17:43
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:it would have been done with both the same intent and the same results. Chauvin would not have gotten the rush and thrill of murdering with a black man with his (metaphorical) bare hands while the world watched helpless before his power.
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Apr 18, 2021 18:22
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Zwabu posted:You can't say this with anywhere near the certainty or precision with which you have. Depending on where on the neck the knee is placed, how broad an area, and how much pressure is applied you absolutely can compress the trachea from the side. Someone above said they would expect his blood oxygen to be low. I'm saying not necessarily
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Apr 18, 2021 18:38
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Zwabu posted:You can't say this with anywhere near the certainty or precision with which you have. Depending on where on the neck the knee is placed, how broad an area, and how much pressure is applied you absolutely can compress the trachea from the side. This was the first or second day of the first week evidence. Dr Tobin was up describing where the knee was, what was it compressing against, and what was the effect of it. The worst of the knee was when it was up above his trachea, this was the part that was killing George, I think it was in this position for 3+ minutes. Could be wrong.
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Apr 18, 2021 20:13
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If Chauvin gets time but it's manslaughter not murder will things kick off?
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Apr 18, 2021 21:59
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Vitamin P posted:If Chauvin gets time but it's manslaughter not murder will things kick off? Chauvin faces 3 charges, second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter. Second-degree murder is upto 40 years in prison. Third-degree is max 25 years. Manslaughter is max 10 years. My guess if less than 10 then there will be some. If its less than 5, then things going to get hosed.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:18
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Chauvin would not have gotten the rush and thrill of murdering with a black man with his (metaphorical) bare hands while the world watched helpless before his power. This is tinfoil hat territory but I suspect it was some kind of initiation for the training officers that were with him. Vitamin P posted:If Chauvin gets time but it's manslaughter not murder will things kick off? Yes. The Twin Cities are incredibly tense right now. What's going on in Brooklynn Center and elsewhere is just antagonizing people further. Even if all charges land things are probably about to pop off, but in that scenario it will probably be the cops doing the rioting.
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Apr 19, 2021 02:56
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happyhippy posted:Chauvin faces 3 charges, second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter. What's the difference between 2nd degree and 3rd degree murder?
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Apr 19, 2021 10:00
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Charlz Guybon posted:What's the difference between 2nd degree and 3rd degree murder? 2nd is unpremeditated best of the moment, 3rd is felony murder or murder where you just had callous disregard and didn’t think “Imma kill this guy”
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Apr 19, 2021 10:08
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:callous disregard and didn’t think “Imma kill this guy” Isn't that manslaughter?
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Apr 19, 2021 10:17
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The Lone Badger posted:Isn't that manslaughter? I think that’s more ‘oops I killed him while knowingly messing up’ E: vs something like ‘I don’t care if he dies’
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Apr 19, 2021 12:47
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The Lone Badger posted:Isn't that manslaughter? As I understand it, the difference is that with manslaughter, someone died by accident and it was unforseen. Like if you set up a zipline over a ravine, and had people over to use it. Then the line snaps and someone falls to their death. That would be manslaughter. You can draw a line from you building the zipline to someone's death, but it's clear that your intent with the zipline wasn't meant to harm, much less kill. Murder 3 is a death resulting from having no regard for human life while you're doing something. A good example of this is keeping someone prone in order to control them (not something that could be expected to kill someone by itself) but keeping them prone by kneeling on their neck for almost 10 minutes, causing that person to die. You were negligent to the fact that kneeling on their neck could cause death by either strangulation or oxygen deprivation. The other argument for murder 3 could be if while kneeling on that person's neck, you're told that the person you're kneeling on had no pulse, but you keep kneeling on their neck. It's this blatant disregard that separates murder 3 from manslaughter.
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Apr 19, 2021 12:51
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Charlz Guybon posted:What's the difference between 2nd degree and 3rd degree murder? The specifics on these charges can vary between states, I believe. I am not a lawyer, but here's the local newspaper summary: quote:What is second-degree unintentional murder?
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Apr 19, 2021 13:37
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I’m watching CNN and this defense attorney motherfucker is on here talking about space aliens and poo poo  EDIT: They better loving convict Chauvin or poo poo is gonna get real bad I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 17:46
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It is infuriating me that Nelson keeps directly referring to Chauvin as "the reasonable police officer" after introducing the concept. No, the reasonable police officer is the hypothetical person that we are comparing Chauvin's actions to (and they seem to be stacking up as quite unreasonable). He keeps planting the idea that it's a foregone conclusion that as a police officer he is reasonable.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:19
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Ror posted:It is infuriating me that Nelson keeps directly referring to Chauvin as "the reasonable police officer" after introducing the concept. No, the reasonable police officer is the hypothetical person that we are comparing Chauvin's actions to (and they seem to be stacking up as quite unreasonable). He keeps planting the idea that it's a foregone conclusion that as a police officer he is reasonable. its because the defense has nothing outside going full out "chauvin did nothing wrong and floyd was evil and deserved it" and they can't do that outright in this case so they have to dog whistle it a bit.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:22
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Is it just me, or does playing long video clips during closing arguments that were already shown seem like a poor strategy? I feel like the jury would pay less and less attention (or roll their eyes more and more since they already saw them) as they go on.
Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 18:30
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Is it just me or does the defense showing long videos of George Floyd screaming out that he can't breathe and begging the officers to let him breathe, and just saying "REASONABLE FORCE" seem like a very counter-productive defense strategy?
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Apr 19, 2021 18:47
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The actual defense is "you can't convict Chauvin of murder because the crowd was angry and concerned that he was murdering Floyd" https://twitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/1384207380263571457?s=20
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Apr 19, 2021 19:15
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There really ought to be a law saying the police have to let suspects go if the risk of proceeding with the arrest (both to the suspect and to bystanders) is out of proportion with the alleged crime.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:18
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:There really ought to be a law saying the police have to let suspects go if the risk of proceeding with the arrest (both to the suspect and to bystanders) is out of proportion with the alleged crime. Some other countries do have laws like that. Like in Sweden, police have to abort car chases and such if it would significantly increase the risk of the driver killing himself or others. And they're not a serial killer or something, probably. I don't know why America doesn't. Unless the answer is racism.
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