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even aside from the main story progress there are other conditions. the most basic ones are having outposts in the right countries, but then there are esoteric things like fires, gold stored, power generation, etc. and that's just what is already known! unless you feel like going by trial and error it's probably best to wait for a guide.
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Apr 18, 2021 22:26
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:if you are trying to get all the loot items in one game you should be aware that there are a lot of them and the requirements for many of them are still unknown. a bunch are very easily missable, too. It was part of the main quest. I got one, and it said I needed 2 and nothing. I was basically stuck at tech level 2, with it saying "progress the main story to unlock this tech".
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Apr 18, 2021 23:21
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twistedmentat posted:It was part of the main quest. I got one, and it said I needed 2 and nothing. I was basically stuck at tech level 2, with it saying "progress the main story to unlock this tech". Just to check, you have started a loot side story right? If you've got a side story going and are having trouble finding a mission on the world map, you can zoom the map out, which hides the mission icons and just shows pings for more important stuff.
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Apr 18, 2021 23:50
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Fakebacon posted:Just to check, you have started a loot side story right? Yup, I started the loot mission and everything. It was weird it was just not popping up on the map. It's possible I just ran into a bug or it needed me to do a certain mission in a certain location to unlock the thing on the map. That reminds me, why are there missions to invite the Super Agents to your island? I've seen ones that slow them down, but there are ones that just straight up invite them. I assume later in the game you figure out how to defeat them, like in the first one, but at best i can scare them off. I guess if you wanted them to come at a specific time rather than when you're trying to do something and boom, you got a crazy lady with a giant hammer in your base. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 00:21
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twistedmentat posted:Yup, I started the loot mission and everything. It was weird it was just not popping up on the map. It's possible I just ran into a bug or it needed me to do a certain mission in a certain location to unlock the thing on the map. Yeah you can invite them to kill them or to at least fight with them on your own terms to incapacitate them for awhile, invited agents are easier to handle
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Apr 19, 2021 00:41
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well, supposedly easier. i haven't really noticed much difference. you do need to lure them for various side missions, though.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:42
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it's very simple, just make an 8 wide hallway and fill it with venus spy traps. How the gently caress do I keep this (or other traps really) from killing my yellow shirts instead of the bad guys?
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Apr 19, 2021 02:42
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:well, supposedly easier. i haven't really noticed much difference. you do need to lure them for various side missions, though. I believe the super agents come with support based on the current heat for that region and/or alliance. I accidentally triggered symmetry and didn't have enough time to wait for minions to do her delay urgent mission, so I did the scheme that costs money and intel to cool my heat to zero. When symmetry showed up it was with a low number of "poor" rogues Now that I think of it, I think the reason I tried that is I tried to fight against a bunch of "excellent" rogues and died horribly, and when I reloaded the last save it obviously didn't have much time left. Anyway all this to say you could maybe trigger an agent when heat is low, get them to show up with a crappy team, and take them off the world map for a while
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Apr 19, 2021 02:50
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Elendil004 posted:How the gently caress do I keep this (or other traps really) from killing my yellow shirts instead of the bad guys? make a decoy hallway closer to the entrance of the casino than any other rooms and every agent will investigate that first, including soldiers and supers. loops work better than dead ends. i find that trapping main thoroughfares rarely works out and tends to cause nasty desertion spirals.
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Apr 19, 2021 03:12
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Mentioning Symmetry reminds me how she keeps appearing inside my base, but I don't see her enter. Because she's a thief can she sneak into the base through other means?
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Apr 19, 2021 03:20
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she teleports inside a vault. if you only have one vault you always know where she will appear. and oh, what's that? someone placed an enormous gauntlet of venus spy traps at the exit to the vault? i can't imagine who would do such a thing. agent x also teleports inside, but i haven't found a way to force him into any particular location. might just be random.
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Apr 19, 2021 03:38
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:she teleports inside a vault. if you only have one vault you always know where she will appear. and oh, what's that? someone placed an enormous gauntlet of venus spy traps at the exit to the vault? i can't imagine who would do such a thing. On two playthroughs so far Agent X has appeared in the same spot every time he appeared. My first base every single time he'd make his appearance it was at my cafeteria, while this playthrough it's my staff room. Dude values consistency I guess.
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Apr 19, 2021 03:54
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:she teleports inside a vault. if you only have one vault you always know where she will appear. and oh, what's that? someone placed an enormous gauntlet of venus spy traps at the exit to the vault? i can't imagine who would do such a thing. Okay at least that's logically consistent. She can sneak into your base but she has to leave through the front door. In EG1 thieves could just pop into your vault, steal some of your money and leave. There wasn't much you could do about it. I wish you could prioritize jobs. I should be able to make sure the consoles for the cameras is always manned, but a minion decides its lunch time and they wander off leaving it unattended. Also how does intel get generated? Is it actually like a resource that builds up, or is it something thats directly related to how many computers you have? Does the big board stack? I've been doing get money, reduce heat, get money, reduce heat loop, but I'm thinking should i just not bother with reducing heat and just keep stealing money until the territory goes into lock down?
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Apr 19, 2021 09:15
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The only thing heat seems to do consistently is gently caress you over if you’ve not got enough empty capacity in an area to finish a scheme, so it’ll go into lockdown and cancel it and you have to start over. The more I think about it the more little annoying mechanics that don’t need to be the way they are I see. I got my one playthrough out of it but I’m not likely to pick it up again without some big patches.
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Apr 19, 2021 09:23
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twistedmentat posted:Okay at least that's logically consistent. She can sneak into your base but she has to leave through the front door. In EG1 thieves could just pop into your vault, steal some of your money and leave. There wasn't much you could do about it. You can prioritize jobs, each genius has an AoE ability that causes minions to prioritize whatever is in the area. It won't help if the issue is that they keep running off to eat though, as they'll still leave to restore stats. It will pull minions off other jobs to replace them quickly, though. Intel gets generated by having minions using the computers, so more computers will generate it faster, but it won't generate anything if they're unmanned. You also get it from interrogating agents and investigators will give you +4 intel a pop so they are usually worth capturing for that. I honestly can't tell what difference the big board makes at all. Yeah usually it's just easier to let a region go into lockdown rather than reduce heat. Reducing heat is only really worthwhile if A) you take the slow option because you just don't want to have to pay attention to that region for a while, or B) you take the fast option because the heat is at a level that's still far away from locking down, but too high to be able to complete a scheme you need to do there. The slow option will also work for the second one since you can just cancel it once it's reduced the heat enough to give you enough of a buffer, but it will still take a while unless you only need to shave off a couple of points.
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Apr 19, 2021 09:45
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Big screens do reduce heat generation, although it's a small effect - I've heard that it takes around twenty to halve the rate your heat builds up. It also won't affect any region running a scheme, and I think having a super-agent on a region also boosts the heat gain so it's hard to notice for those too. If you tend to play with having as many regions as possible in long-term gain money/lose heat schemes you probably won't get much benefit from the screens.
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Apr 19, 2021 10:03
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twistedmentat posted:There wasn't much you could do about it. It doesn't really matter now, but that's probably because of the layout of your treasury. EG1 let you block off parts of rooms with items, but it meant that agents could just teleport into and out of the blocked-off area.
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Apr 19, 2021 10:17
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i can confirm that 20 big screens completely eliminates passive heat generation, but not the heat that supers on the world map generate. it's 5% for each one and they don't have to be manned. but of course, heat barely matters anyway and most of what it is supposed to do simply doesn't work.
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Apr 19, 2021 11:55
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A big draw of the first Evil Genius game to me was how you could link the traps and group things together in incredibly intuitive yet powerful ways. I spent more time making hilarious trap setups than anything else and whenever I talk to someone who played the game, that's what everyone remembers the most fondly. But I watched a bunch of youtube videos on the new game and, every time there was a super agent or high level soldiers, they just slowly walked forward deactivating every single trap as they went. So, have they really made traps pointless for anything other than the most basic do-gooders? Tehan posted:It doesn't really matter now, but that's probably because of the layout of your treasury. EG1 let you block off parts of rooms with items, but it meant that agents could just teleport into and out of the blocked-off area. The fun part was the agents would prioritise any blocked off areas, so you could could block off areas filled with traps. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 16:57
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I have caught super agents in traps that lower quality investigators one or two steps ahead of them set off.
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Apr 19, 2021 17:15
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Megillah Gorilla posted:
Low-level ones, yes. High level ones, no - but the research tiers are so slow, chances are none of your Youtube videos got to that part of the game yet. It's part of the overall progression and speed issues they've acknowledged.
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Apr 19, 2021 17:32
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Not being able to put traps anywhere but in a hallway was a big disappointment to me and having agents only ever approach your lair from the one maybe two angles is a real one two punch.
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Apr 19, 2021 17:36
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Psion posted:Low-level ones, yes. High level ones, no - but the research tiers are so slow, chances are none of your Youtube videos got to that part of the game yet. It's part of the overall progression and speed issues they've acknowledged. I've gotten to all the traps, and so far the only ones that have a reasonable chance of catching any of the agents once they have over 50 skill are the laser disco and the venus plant trap. Even soldiers past a point are invulnerable to anything but those two, and those are still iffy.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:12
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Yeah the traps in this game suck and its far more effective to just have a couple of security tables next to the entrance.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:36
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Traps are still pretty good for dealing with investigators as long as you can zap their skill level hard enough with your casino or an earlier trap setup.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:41
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Grapplejack posted:Traps are still pretty good for dealing with investigators as long as you can zap their skill level hard enough with your casino or an earlier trap setup.  Sure, I've only caught them in the act doing that with a boxing glove so far. But it just kind of rubs it in how lopsided the "No guys traps are good if-" climb is. See also, "No see minions are not weak. Just because a freshly escaped low level investigator agent with 20 health can potentially solo a 100 health hitman with a rifle before getting stopped, it just means you didn't use enough of them or didn't place them good enough." Don't skimp on prison guards if you have any by leaving them at the end of the room by the exit on that note, it seems to encourage prisoners to remember they still have guns compared to shaming them back into their cell with a guy staring at them as they break out. Section Z fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 18:43
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One thing that is kind of annoying abut the game in general is how obscured most information is. Like it's not even clear what most traps even do, as far as what kind of damage they do, from their description, let alone how difficult they are for agents to evade (although it is reasonable to guess that the higher tier traps are harder for them to avoid, it's not clear how much harder). I mostly didn't use traps in general. I was using the donut map and found it pretty easy to just auto-tag agents for distraction in the casino, and I stuck a guard room in the diggable area that's right in the middle of the casino so any agents who wandered where they weren't supposed to and started fighting when confronted would quickly get swarmed. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 19:05
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The Cheshire Cat posted:One thing that is kind of annoying abut the game in general is how obscured most information is. Like it's not even clear what most traps even do, as far as what kind of damage they do, from their description, let alone how difficult they are for agents to evade (although it is reasonable to guess that the higher tier traps are harder for them to avoid, it's not clear how much harder). This is again in comparison to the original game, which had a literal encyclopedia of things you could look at that would tell you everything
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Apr 19, 2021 19:07
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The Cheshire Cat posted:You can prioritize jobs, each genius has an AoE ability that causes minions to prioritize whatever is in the area. It won't help if the issue is that they keep running off to eat though, as they'll still leave to restore stats. It will pull minions off other jobs to replace them quickly, though. Yea i've been using the science genius to hang out in the lab to help speed up research, but i don't think anyone makes guards stay at the monitor station. Okay, I figured the intel was generated by minions working at the consoles, its getting them to work at them that's the issue. Though I had no idea you got intel from interrogating prisoners. I've just been brainwashing them. I built a bunch of screens but didn't see any difference, i didn't get anywhere need 20 so its probably not really worth it unless you're going to go whole hog. I think I'll just stop bothering with the heat reduction missions, as it often meant I was lacking any real income. It didn't effect the amount of investigators coming to the island. Something I really like about this is the Inner Sanctum changes based on your Genius. Dr Girlfriend's looks different than mini bloefelds. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 19:27
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The original had a timeclock to make minions prioritise jobs in that room and I really felt it’s absence.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:29
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The Cheshire Cat posted:One thing that is kind of annoying abut the game in general is how obscured most information is. Like it's not even clear what most traps even do, as far as what kind of damage they do, from their description, let alone how difficult they are for agents to evade (although it is reasonable to guess that the higher tier traps are harder for them to avoid, it's not clear how much harder).  Then you have stuff like the Knock Out Gas trap not only being oddly weak for a mid tier trap even if you trap somebody into a corner with it for the full duration, but if it ever drains someone to Zero skill/Vit it kills them instead of knocks them out. This is intuitive and should have been obvious because...
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Apr 19, 2021 19:35
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I have never seen an agent disarm a trap as long as I used a trap on them from a further out angle. Traps with long activation fields fixed to the opposing wall from where they will come as a combo set up seems to work consistently. If you place traps on the wall where they will be Right Next To It they will disarm it basically 100% of the time. Manage probable angles of approach and if you must catch them with a sideways trap then dig a recess in the wall so they can’t get close to it before it has already activated.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:36
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Captain Oblivious posted:I have never seen an agent disarm a trap as long as I used a trap on them from a further out angle. Traps with long activation fields fixed to the opposing wall from where they will come as a combo set up seems to work consistently.  Angles of approach only help if the agent was going to fall for it anyways, or to prevent them from corner cutting to bypass a trigger zone entirely. At least in my own experience making stupid rube goldberg traps. Though extreme ranges are useful for working around traps canceling eachother out. A freeze ray even in medium range of a magnet gets the ice broken and no freeze ray stat drains suffered. Like my freeze rays directly out in the open no effort to hide them at all, placed at the exact edge of a magnet's range which is peeking through a 2 tile wide slot will actually keep the ice cube intact and even roll the icecube to bounce into the magnet closet slot. But I built it that way to keep from breaking the ice cube and canceling ice drain, not because agents were any less likely to know a magnet is in a murder hole. Just to be sure I alternated the opening with a row of these lining two sides of an approach. The ones with the opening being directly visible worked with the same frequency and results as the ones with openings 'hidden' It was also very soothing to watch in action ("They made it out... oops more ice cubes pulled into another magnet closet  " ), but it caused way too much minion collateral damage sadly.
Section Z fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 19:49
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knockout gas traps are more effective than you might think. sticking one in the middle of a hallway and then letting agents walk through it is useless. the clouds are persistent and no enemies actually avoid them once the trap has triggered. stick them in front of doors, at the landing point of fans and magnets. when enemies actually stay in the cloud for any amount of time they are terribly effective.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:49
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twistedmentat posted:Yea i've been using the science genius to hang out in the lab to help speed up research, but i don't think anyone makes guards stay at the monitor station. The thing is this ability works for everything, not just for the specific thing the genius is good at. Only the bonus applies when prioritizing that specific thing, but you can use it to force them to prioritize anything. So you can send her to go stand next to the monitor station and use the ability and the minions will prioritize it above other tasks, they just won't regenerate smarts while doing it like researchers do.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:50
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The thing is this ability works for everything, not just for the specific thing the genius is good at. Only the bonus applies when prioritizing that specific thing, but you can use it to force them to prioritize anything. So you can send her to go stand next to the monitor station and use the ability and the minions will prioritize it above other tasks, they just won't regenerate smarts while doing it like researchers do. Boo that's kinda crummy. History Comes Inside! posted:The original had a timeclock to make minions prioritise jobs in that room and I really felt it’s absence. This is a better solution.
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Apr 19, 2021 20:29
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Okay just not bothering worrying about heat and only reducing it when I need to do a story mission is way more effective.
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Apr 21, 2021 02:02
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twistedmentat posted:all of my minions got stuck in the lunchroom and none of the techs were repairing stuff and that caused a cascade for fires and explosions in the reactor room in the basement and suddenly i had no power and no money and yea i could have sold off the stuff I had to build more reactors, but even then the minions weren't doing anything just standing around getting snacks rather than working. Typically that happens when your minions are trying to replenish a stat and can't (Only 1 reeducation chair, no EG TV, or whatever). Easy fix : Execute a minion near all the ones lollygagging around doing nothing, and all the minions stats get restored so they get to work.
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Apr 21, 2021 02:44
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Oh neat, though in my second game I just made sure my minions had enough lunch space. Something they really should not have done is lock a lot of really important research really deep into the game.
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Apr 21, 2021 06:47
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Idr if someone posted it in here but finding out that agents will always prioritize doors let me design a two block width "employee hallway" hidden behind a casino floor switchback beside a deadly trap hallway and my minion death rate basically fell to zero
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Apr 21, 2021 06:54
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