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mistermojo posted:now that's a good deal. from what I understand it's just replacing the Champions League which I guess sucks but it's not like this is the only league they'll be playing in That is most certainly the goal. Why would they keep playing their weekend games against Stoke when they could, well, not play their weekend games against Stoke? They don't want to play against smaller clubs, they only want the big games for the most money. The sooner they can ditch the domestic leagues the better. Because that also means their SL games can now take place on the weekends, which is worth even more money. And the threat of not allowing their players to compete in international tournaments is not a threat at all, because why would they want their players to go off to play qualifiers and tournaments that doesn't earn them any money? And risks them getting injured to boot? So they couldn't be happier if their players can't play for their country. So: the goal is to make their own franchised league, with no risk of getting relegated, and closing it off to everybody who doesn't bring in hundreds of millions to join. They'll leave their home leagues as soon as possible to allow them to play on the weekends at whatever time (and at whatever location) they please, and to avoid having to play against lesser pleb teams for not enough money. The 3 (2?) Spanish teams - due to chronic mismanagement and covid - are basically bankrupt and need this to survive. So they can't back out. Same with the 3 Italians. The English teams could probably survive, but they're owned by ultra-rich Americans who couldn't give rat's rear end about European football and will just ram this through out of greed. They won't back out because they don't want to. If allowed, this will suck the rest of Europe dry of both players and money. The talk of 'we want to save football' and 'trickle down economics' are cynical and obvious lies. Why would they let any money beyond the absolute bare minimum drip down to the 'lower' leagues? Out of the kindness of their hearts? This has never happened in the history of ever. The conclusion for anybody outside the dirty dozen is obvious: this has to be stopped, and stopped now. Kick them out of the CL, out of the EL, out of their domestic league. Do everything you can to limit the number of clubs to 12. Treat this like the war it is and destroy them.
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Apr 20, 2021 01:36
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Vando posted:yeah, everyone thinks this angle means greedy players but it's actually greedy owners aiming for unsustainable glory, fuelled by the teams at the top who can pump the most money in bawfuls posted:the original post that got "cspam people" replies literally said greedy players even without those literal words, it's about the framing of the issue if you say "players salaries are to blame" the only subject in that is the player, so the fault is linked to them you could easily frame it more correctly as FLJ's longer part of the post didn't make a single mention i caught of player agency, purely about the club owners/fans deciding to spend too much money i mean that and recently you have oil money club specifically driving up player prices/salaries so lol
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Apr 20, 2021 01:37
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uXs posted:That is most certainly the goal. Why would they keep playing their weekend games against Stoke when they could, well, not play their weekend games against Stoke? They don't want to play against smaller clubs, they only want the big games for the most money. once again, removing all player agency from the equation which is silly the club may not want the players to play for their country, but considering players do that as a choice, they clearly want to the question is after this what can non SL clubs offer the top top talent and is that enough for them to live a good life and also fulfill their dreams? the notion that it's all money for the players is weird since if that were true you'd have loads more top level players going to china/middle east/MLS clubs (the latter a bit less so) for the paycheck before their retirement age
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Apr 20, 2021 01:40
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Crazy Ted posted:I'm not sure about that, because Matt Bruenig is frequently a goddamn moron capable of top-shelf Galaxy Brain takes. Matt Yglesigas, on the other hand, just tries to openly bullshit his way through his own ignorance. He sometimes gets into very extended bits where one is no longer sure whether he's joking after a while, like his fixation on gas ranges behind unhealthy, but this one is clearly trolling He goes on to call it the United Kingdom Premier League
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Apr 20, 2021 01:41
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tbh i'm curious to see the possible effect of having only SL games for a club would be do they pretend to care and try to play their best XI at all times and run them into the ground? do they rotate just against spurs and arsenal like they would for burnley or whoever and not really care if they lose cause can't get relegated and you get plenty of money just from being in the league than from position at the end? yes there will be less games, but also more intense games if every week is against CL caliber clubs
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Apr 20, 2021 01:44
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https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1384271059344498689 Florentino "Pyramid Scheme" Perez
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Apr 20, 2021 01:45
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shirts and skins posted:He sometimes gets into very extended bits where one is no longer sure whether he's joking after a while, like his fixation on gas ranges behind unhealthy Karl Sharks posted:if you say "players salaries are to blame" the only subject in that is the player, so the fault is linked to them
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Apr 20, 2021 01:48
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Karl Sharks posted:tbh i'm curious to see the possible effect of having only SL games for a club would be Why would the game between Spurs at 14th and Inter at 8th on the table be more intense if there's no relegation or competition to qualify for at the top of the table? Hoping to get into the playoffs?
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Apr 20, 2021 01:49
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:Why would the game between Spurs at 14th and Inter at 8th on the table be more intense if there's no relegation or competition to qualify for at the top of the table? Hoping to get into the playoffs?
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Apr 20, 2021 01:51
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:Why would the game between Spurs at 14th and Inter at 8th on the table be more intense if there's no relegation or competition to qualify for at the top of the table? Hoping to get into the playoffs? everybody will be thrilled to watch 10th-most valuable franchise The Tottenham Hotspurs, at 10th in Group A, play their dead ringer final match against 11th-most valuable franchise The Milan Internationals, at 9th in Group A, with playoff hopes long since gone, because those matches are more meaningful and popular than watching those same teams struggling to finish 4th while playing against teams fighting not to get relegated from a real league. This is the defining premise behind the Super League, and it's proven because everyone's favourite matches are the ones at the end of the season where two midtable sides who will neither get relegated nor get into Europe battle it out to see who finishes 11th.
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Apr 20, 2021 01:55
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vyelkin posted:everybody will be thrilled to watch 10th-most valuable franchise The Tottenham Hotspurs, at 10th in Group A, play their dead ringer final match against 11th-most valuable franchise The Milan Internationals, at 9th in Group A, with playoff hopes long since gone, because those matches are more meaningful and popular than watching those same teams struggling to finish 4th while playing against teams fighting not to get relegated from a real league. This is the defining premise behind the Super League, and it's proven because everyone's favourite matches are the ones at the end of the season where two midtable sides who will neither get relegated nor get into Europe battle it out to see who finishes 11th. These matches are good in Italy because you can try to figure out who is getting paid by a betting syndicate to give up a goal in first half injury time or get carded in the 32nd minute
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Apr 20, 2021 01:57
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vyelkin posted:everybody will be thrilled to watch 10th-most valuable franchise The Tottenham Hotspurs, at 10th in Group A, play their dead ringer final match against 11th-most valuable franchise The Milan Internationals, at 9th in Group A, with playoff hopes long since gone, because those matches are more meaningful and popular than watching those same teams struggling to finish 4th while playing against teams fighting not to get relegated from a real league. This is the defining premise behind the Super League, and it's proven because everyone's favourite matches are the ones at the end of the season where two midtable sides who will neither get relegated nor get into Europe battle it out to see who finishes 11th.
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Apr 20, 2021 01:59
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:Why would the game between Spurs at 14th and Inter at 8th on the table be more intense if there's no relegation or competition to qualify for at the top of the table? Hoping to get into the playoffs? i mean i am aware of the no stakes, which is why i specifically worded it into the post thanks for reading? i can spell it out more for you, if they play at the same intensity that they do in the CL or against title rivals every week, that will be harder on the players than playing bottom half clubs most weeks i said if, which means i am not saying they will, or will have to, but if they do
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Apr 20, 2021 01:59
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uXs posted:That is most certainly the goal. Why would they keep playing their weekend games against Stoke when they could, well, not play their weekend games against Stoke? They don't want to play against smaller clubs, they only want the big games for the most money. And rather than resigning from their domestic leagues, they're hoping to get kicked out so they can play the victim when it eventually goes to court.
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Apr 20, 2021 02:04
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Karl Sharks posted:once again, removing all player agency from the equation which is silly Sure, most want to play for their country. But do they really care enough? Or do they care more about earning a shitload of money? You'll notice there have been (close to?) zero player reactions so far. Really top players close to retirement have mostly earned enough money that a china paycheck isn't really worth it anymore. A lot of them have families as well that they may not want to uproot. Or they want to stay here and become managers or pundits. vyelkin posted:https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1384271059344498689 "It will become like a pyramid because we big clubs will have more money and we will be able to invest it by buying players... if the big clubs lose their money as is happening, the whole football system crashes as with the Champions League" This 'invest by buying players' will last until they realize that they don't have to compete against their franchise buddies anymore. I give it all of 5 seconds for this well of talent-buying money to dry up as much possible. What an arrogant prick. He really thinks madrid is god's own football club and if they were to go bust, the entire western hemisphere would implode.
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Apr 20, 2021 02:05
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bees everywhere posted:And rather than resigning from their domestic leagues, they're hoping to get kicked out so they can play the victim when it eventually goes to court. Oh yes most definitely.
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Apr 20, 2021 02:07
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uXs posted:Sure, most want to play for their country. But do they really care enough? Or do they care more about earning a shitload of money? You'll notice there have been (close to?) zero player reactions so far. i'd be careful to rail against my current employer too based on news that just happened a day ago tbh and my point was players who arent close to retirement, like what oscar did for example, you don't see that happening very often fair point on the families thing to a degree, but i still keep noting the lack of any player consideration here as if they are all money grubbing people who want the absolute maximum amount of money at the expense of nearly everything else i def will want to see what the TV/streaming revenue actually will be since there is a huge time difference in their two "future fans" markets
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Apr 20, 2021 02:13
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vyelkin posted:everybody will be thrilled to watch 10th-most valuable franchise The Tottenham Hotspurs, at 10th in Group A, play their dead ringer final match against 11th-most valuable franchise The Milan Internationals, at 9th in Group A, with playoff hopes long since gone, because those matches are more meaningful and popular than watching those same teams struggling to finish 4th while playing against teams fighting not to get relegated from a real league. This is the defining premise behind the Super League, and it's proven because everyone's favourite matches are the ones at the end of the season where two midtable sides who will neither get relegated nor get into Europe battle it out to see who finishes 11th. Get this man a job at ESPN. I honestly think the owners are underestimating how loving boring this league will be. Not that they'll care
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Apr 20, 2021 02:17
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You’re all adorable if you think there’s going to be one big league table. This fucker is going to be broken out into 4- or 5-team divisions, with playoffs and wildcards and cheerleaders and the whole enchilada.
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Apr 20, 2021 02:21
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This is turning me into an “embrace tradition reject modernity” freak, some of my best times watching football were games like the euro alaves vs Liverpool, Sevilla uefa and Copa del Rey runs, the Valencia champions league finals, el centenariazo,those early 2000’s Chelsea-barça or Madrid vs manchester in old Trafford. Games that either featured smaller teams firing in all cylinders or extremely infrequent fixtures with superb teams. This super league business is an attempt to kill the small teams whilst diluting what made the big games special. It’s a group of mismanaged bankrupt teams with powerful brands killing everyone else to save their asses.loving Tottenham is not a super team!
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Apr 20, 2021 02:21
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Karl Sharks posted:even without those literal words, it's about the framing of the issue I think we're off the beaten track a bit once we get into the framing of the dialectic or whatever. One hundred percent, if people are putting the blame on the players, they're dum-dums, but there's naturally player agency involved to the extent that they're in a high-skill labour market and they're going to largely demand parity relative to other players. So smaller clubs are constantly in the position of their players demanding to be offered a choice between seeing out their contract as a star player or taking more money to go and be Chelsea's fourth-choice striker, and the answer generally comes back "THE BENCH, THE BENCH". You can say that the owners don't have a gun to their head, and ultimately they don't, but the metaphorical gun to their head is either not making the Champions League or getting relegated, which is exactly why they've come up with a scheme that kills those risks entirely. Once it's a closed shop, they can start throwing around obscene gently caress-you-got-mine numbers like a 55% salary cap, since the worst that's going to happen is that you come last every year and make the same amount regardless.
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Apr 20, 2021 02:24
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hump day bitches! posted:This is turning me into an “embrace tradition reject modernity” freak, some of my best times watching football were games like the euro alaves vs Liverpool, Sevilla uefa and Copa del Rey runs, the Valencia champions league finals, el centenariazo,those early 2000’s Chelsea-barça or Madrid vs manchester in old Trafford. poo poo until last season, Inter hadn't even finished in the top 3 for ten years. And Arsenal is a rolling disaster. FullLeatherJacket posted:I think we're off the beaten track a bit once we get into the framing of the dialectic or whatever. One hundred percent, if people are putting the blame on the players, they're dum-dums, but there's naturally player agency involved to the extent that they're in a high-skill labour market and they're going to largely demand parity relative to other players. So smaller clubs are constantly in the position of their players demanding to be offered a choice between seeing out their contract as a star player or taking more money to go and be Chelsea's fourth-choice striker, and the answer generally comes back "THE BENCH, THE BENCH". I think everyone expected the players to start to speak out about this but if you're in the position of playing for one of the SL teams, you about to make a shitload of money and most/all won't give two shits about not playing for the domestic league. Even the WC, I strongly doubt it will stop most players. And now once you've got this hyper echelon of pay, it's going to start to bleed into the remaining markets and suddenly Bayern won't be able to compete, especially when the players will have to play a far tighter schedule relative to what they'd get in the SL. Obviously, good on the players for milking the billionaire owners, but the super well-off players are going to pull the ladder up behind them, even if it's not intentional. Pook Good Mook fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 02:24
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There’s going to be a lot of players speaking to lawyers rn and seeing how they can get out of this mess I reckon. Sure most of them are mercenary cunts but I genuinely reckon there’ll be a fair few who won’t give a poo poo and just want to play for their country and in their home town and become absolute local heroes.
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Apr 20, 2021 02:26
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There are so many gaps in the plan, I feel like there's some major piece of the puzzle that hasn't been revealed yet. It doesn't make sense for teams which already complain about a packed schedule to just add a ton of domestic games, so it follows that they're really waiting to be kicked out of the domestic leagues rather than resign. OK, but what about the "invitational" teams each season? If the SL teams are properly kicked out, and then they invite Leicester for one season, how can Leicester take up that invite if the rest of the PL will refuse to allow them back in at the end of it? A two-tier SL so the invitational teams have somewhere to go afterwards? Or a completely parallel structure that dissociates from FIFA and UEFA entirely, sets up its own framework for international games, and then the entire transfer and player registration system across Europe goes up in flames when the lawsuits start flying.
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Apr 20, 2021 03:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKO6XYXioc
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Apr 20, 2021 03:31
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If the superleague has a “hyper echelon of pay” it will be a near term thing only. There will be a salary cap. Owners will find ways to shield revenues from being counted towards the “total football revenue” against which the salary cap is determined. They will want the existing national leagues to survive as poorly funded but still functional versions, to serve as a free talent development pipeline for the superleague. They’ll institute an age-based draft and it’ll be surprisingly high like 21 or something. The superleague teams won’t have to outbid each other for these players, just the national-league rump-teams. This is going to echo American sports leagues because this is all a result of market forces. Most of the most valuable football teams in the world are now owned by billionaires, so they’re going to do what oligarchs do and set themselves up a nice little cartel to help suppress labor costs while cornering a lucrative market. I agree with the poster who said you’d better kill this now in the crib before the monster grows unstoppable.
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Apr 20, 2021 03:40
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We won’t know for sure that it’s bad or not until some American has photoshopped the whole event over some avengers screenshots
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Apr 20, 2021 03:43
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uXs posted:Sure, most want to play for their country. But do they really care enough? Or do they care more about earning a shitload of money? You'll notice there have been (close to?) zero player reactions so far. It's been less than a day and Milner, Bamford, the entire Leeds team wearing shirts during warm up, Klopp, and Bielsa publicly said it's poo poo (that is, all the prem people in a position to say much today). A bunch of other players and managers, mostly not on super league teams except Bruno Fernandes and Pavard, said it's poo poo on social media. A bunch of former/almost former players, like Ozil and Poldi, said it's poo poo.
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Apr 20, 2021 03:50
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Billionaires thinking they can make infinite money from european football is adorable.
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Apr 20, 2021 05:00
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Bundy posted:So this is all poo poo and bollocks obviously but I'm having a hard time with all the sanctimony as if it's not actually a bunch of billionaire cunts betraying a different other bunch of billionaire cunts. For me it ultimately comes down to whether I choose to continue to support an organization that lies and gaslights to promote further profit taking and making GBS threads down the throats of supporters and other clubs while insisting this is actually good for all of them. Granted, yes, I shouldn't have used "literally supporting Juventus" as my non-work, non-real life mental getaway from overly powerful organizations abusing their status, money and connections to maintain the financial status quo and gently caress over everybody else. After being exhausted about all the bullshit of real life maybe it's not worth it to have a hobby where you spend your time supporting a club that in recent years is just doing the same thing for things like rape apologia and now all of this.
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Apr 20, 2021 05:35
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Americans just really have to ruin everything, don't they
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Apr 20, 2021 06:02
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I personally think its great that all the super clubs are going to gently caress off and start their own league that all their Malaysian fans can watch while us fans of garbage tin-pot clubs can keep watching the good leagues that will now be more competitive
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Apr 20, 2021 06:05
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uXs posted:The conclusion for anybody outside the dirty dozen is obvious: this has to be stopped, and stopped now. Kick them out of the CL, out of the EL, out of their domestic league. Do everything you can to limit the number of clubs to 12. Treat this like the war it is and destroy them. keep seeing this and it just doesn't make sense. the 12 clubs have a shitload of leverage here and are essentially holding their domestic leagues hostage. you cannot simply "kick them out" unless you have a plan to prevent the leagues from collapsing. the leagues are financially dependent on the marketing and star power of their large clubs to sell television rights, and these rights are the main sources of income for a lot of clubs that are up to their eyeballs in debt. and even if they did ban them, the 12 could still make a shitload of money playing each other and leaving behind the domestic leagues as shriveled husks of what they used to be. there is no way to "destroy them" short of everyone deciding not to watch the games, which seems incredibly unlikely. people are going to watch real madrid and arsenal play. the overwhelming evidence is that people will prefer to watch these teams play even when there is absolutely nothing at stake. i feel like the clubs basically planned this pretty well, i do not see how they realistically lose unless maybe fan backlash is so bad that they lose their nerve. i suspect that the league's design was intended to scare uefa into negotiations, and that the final form of the league will look somewhat better than the current form. but at this point i don't really see how the super league does not actually come into existence, with the clubs getting at least 90% of their demands.
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Apr 20, 2021 06:12
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TheRat posted:Americans just really have to ruin everything, don't they 
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Apr 20, 2021 06:33
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‘If we lost Blackburn, Leeds, Ispwich and Forest’ from the league then football would cease to exist might have worked in 95 even.
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Apr 20, 2021 06:33
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Concerned Citizen posted:keep seeing this and it just doesn't make sense. the 12 clubs have a shitload of leverage here and are essentially holding their domestic leagues hostage. you cannot simply "kick them out" unless you have a plan to prevent the leagues from collapsing. the leagues are financially dependent on the marketing and star power of their large clubs to sell television rights, and these rights are the main sources of income for a lot of clubs that are up to their eyeballs in debt. and even if they did ban them, the 12 could still make a shitload of money playing each other and leaving behind the domestic leagues as shriveled husks of what they used to be. there is no way to "destroy them" short of everyone deciding not to watch the games, which seems incredibly unlikely. people are going to watch real madrid and arsenal play. the overwhelming evidence is that people will prefer to watch these teams play even when there is absolutely nothing at stake. The fan backlash is real And no one wants to watch Arsenal play Milan for nothing on a Wednesday worknight
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Apr 20, 2021 06:36
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Champions League absolutely needs to boot out everyone but PSG and I say this as a City guy Leagues are a bit more complicated but they should also take a hard line. If this year shows anything, it’s that the big 6 will have troubles without regular match days, even with all that extra JP Morgan cash.
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Apr 20, 2021 06:39
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once the super league doesn't make them enough money, teams will splinter off to form the super duper league
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Apr 20, 2021 06:40
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I just wanna see what CL would do for this year if they booted those teams out
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Apr 20, 2021 06:46
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TheRat posted:Americans just really have to ruin everything, don't they https://twitter.com/AdamFriedland/status/1384308992868896771
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