|
Charlz Guybon posted:You can be convicted for more than one of these? I would have thought being convicted of one, precludes be convicted of the others. You can be convicted of more than one thing for the same crime, although sentencing usually involves the most serious charge.
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 13:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:46 |
|
|
It's worth reminding everyone that if the defense attorney gasping at even the thinnest of straws is literally his job. In this case, prosecutorial misconduct is something that if he plans on using it ever in appeal, he needs to bring it up at that moment to the judge. If you don't bring it up now, you can't bring it up in appeal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 13:34
|
|
|
"Well, looks like 11 of us are ready to convict and Martin in the MAGA hat says no? Okay, we'll go tell the world about your decision uh I mean our decision, Martin. Later tonight I'll write an email to a friend about the trial with all the details, you know, names, addresses, all that. I hope it doesn't get leaked online immediately! You know how those hackers are today!" Is the jury room enough of a "black box" that this can happen?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 14:22
|
|
|
IANAL, but I would imagine that coercing someone on the jury to reach a specific verdict (even from someone on the same jury) could be grounds for a mistrial if it gets made public, especially with receipts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 14:31
|
|
|
JonathonSpectre posted:"Well, looks like 11 of us are ready to convict and Martin in the MAGA hat says no? Okay, we'll go tell the world about your decision uh I mean our decision, Martin. Later tonight I'll write an email to a friend about the trial with all the details, you know, names, addresses, all that. I hope it doesn't get leaked online immediately! You know how those hackers are today!" If it's any consolation, I listened to the jury selection and the only way there's a juror with "cops can do no harm" or MAGA-ish views is if they were insanely good at lying. The prosecution did a good job at striking down any jurors who expressed those views or who were too tight-lipped to know. Kalit fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Apr 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 14:34
|
|
|
Velocity Raptor posted:IANAL, but I would imagine that coercing someone on the jury to reach a specific verdict (even from someone on the same jury) could be grounds for a mistrial if it gets made public, especially with receipts. "Listen, just as Derek Chauvin did not actually mean to kill George Floyd by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes and instead was just harmlessly doing his job, I also did not actually mean to mail all Martin's personal info to those websites, I was in fact actually doing my job of baking a chocolate cake. Much like Derek Chauvin has no idea how his deliberate, drawn-out, considered actions could possibly have led to this end, neither do I. When I hit SEND I had no idea an email would actually be, you know, sent, just like Derek Chauvin had no idea that kneeling on someone's throat for 9 minutes would actually, you know, keep them from breathing. So just like Martin Geesbrecht of 134 Primrose Lane next to the Walgreen's, phone number XXX, who works for Ted's Auto Shop on 9th Street, believed in Derek Chauvin's innocence despite all the evidence and testimony, I'm sure he's fine with all this." Just fuckin' around. This poo poo is so absolutely wild. A public torture murder caught on video and there's a question, at all, about whether or not the murderer will be found guilty. The entire prosecution should have just been to press "Play." Everything about everything that happened is completely indefensible. And yet here we are. Again. Soldiers/sailors ITT, what would happen to a soldier who had this kind of video evidence against them with some detainee? Assuming it became public etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 15:06
|
|
|
JonathonSpectre posted:Soldiers/sailors ITT, what would happen to a soldier who had this kind of video evidence against them with some detainee? Assuming it became public etc. I'm not a troop, but you could ask Lynndie England how well that worked out for her.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 15:10
|
|
|
JonathonSpectre posted:Soldiers/sailors ITT, what would happen to a soldier who had this kind of video evidence against them with some detainee? Assuming it became public etc. I mean, the Military takes this poo poo a lot more seriously than Police do, and has regularly gone after people under the UCMJ, especially when its documented.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 15:23
|
|
|
JonathonSpectre posted:Soldiers/sailors ITT, what would happen to a soldier who had this kind of video evidence against them with some detainee? Assuming it became public etc. I can only speak on behalf of the Army, but we don't take too kindly to this stuff. Let's say nothing even physically happened in a video involving a Soldier; so long as it can be perceived that the Soldier brought negative attention to themselves and or the service - the hammer would drop instantly. During my last stint at FT. Hood (2017-2020), many senior leaders were hammered down for issues like this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 15:41
|
|
|
I expect a hung jury, an acquittal, or mistrial. I have a really hard time imagining a conviction. Hope I'm wrong. The judge literally said that the comments from Maxine Waters are grounds for appeal from the defense. I don't see this ending soon. Gunthen fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Apr 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 15:45
|
|
|
Gunthen posted:I expect a hung jury, an acquittal, or mistrial. I have a really hard time imagining a conviction. Hope I'm wrong. Same. I fully expect, given the jury selection questions, that there's at least one or two asshats in there who will hang the jury. I will be absolutely delighted to be wrong. Gunthen posted:The judge literally said that the comments from Maxine Waters are grounds for appeal from the defense. I don't see this ending soon. It may be, but honestly at this point cops can use ANY community outrage over their actions as "grounds for appeal".
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 15:52
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:It may be, but honestly at this point cops can use ANY community outrage over their actions as "grounds for appeal". I hear what your saying. But a Judge saying it's cause for the whole case to get overturned is still pretty radical. Even is there is a conviction, we are a long way off from the end of this clusterfuck.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 15:56
|
|
|
What sort of society do we have that when a verdict of a cop who murdered someone clearly on camera is so bad that barriers and fences and razor wire around police station had to be put up? That's the verdict right there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Same. I fully expect, given the jury selection questions, that there's at least one or two asshats in there who will hang the jury. I will be absolutely delighted to be wrong. Why do the questions asked on the questionnaire lead you to think there's more possibility of having jurors like that? If any of those questions had not been asked on the questionnaire, the prosecutor or the defense counsel would have asked all of them during the jury selection process anyways. Gunthen posted:I hear what your saying. But a Judge saying it's cause for the whole case to get overturned is still pretty radical. Even is there is a conviction, we are a long way off from the end of this clusterfuck. Eh, the judge is saying what Nelson was going to do anyways, it's not a secret. That's the only reason why Nelson brought it up. E: Also, the judge didn't say it's cause to have the case get overturned. Just that it's something that Nelson can bring up in appeals later. Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Apr 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 16:15
|
|
|
Gunthen posted:I expect a hung jury, an acquittal, or mistrial. I have a really hard time imagining a conviction. Hope I'm wrong. I was pretty disappointed when Maxine came out and said what she said - now is not the time to give the court any excuse or reason to extend this trial any longer than it needs to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 16:16
|
|
|
Josherino posted:I was pretty disappointed when Maxine came out and said what she said - now is not the time to give the court any excuse or reason to extend this trial any longer than it needs to. I'm gonna say this again: What Maxine said is being taken out of context and blown up by Right Wing media groups like Fox to MAKE it a way to undermine the judicial process. This is literally echoing Right wing arguing points for them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:I'm gonna say this again: What Maxine said is being taken out of context and blown up by Right Wing media groups like Fox to MAKE it a way to undermine the judicial process. This is literally echoing Right wing arguing points for them. I completely agree with you; Just knowing how it's going to be taken out of context is what provoked me to feel disappointed. I know and understand what she's saying - I just wished it was AFTER the trial if that makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Josherino posted:I completely agree with you; Just knowing how it's going to be taken out of context is what provoked me to feel disappointed. I know and understand what she's saying - I just wished it was AFTER the trial if that makes sense. There's been plenty before, during, and will be more after the trial to frame as "Grounds for Appeal", the entire point is muddying the waters by arguing that legitimate community outrage by community members and leaders is somehow an escape rope for Police who commit violent actions. Don't play into it, dude.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 16:28
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:There's been plenty before, during, and will be more after the trial to frame as "Grounds for Appeal", the entire point is muddying the waters by arguing that legitimate community outrage by community members and leaders is somehow an escape rope for Police who commit violent actions. You're definitely right on that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
mdemone posted:I'm not a troop, but you could ask Lynndie England how well that worked out for her. Or the chain of command that knew and apparently came away just fine, since there was a convenient scapegoat?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:I'm gonna say this again: What Maxine said is being taken out of context and blown up by Right Wing media groups like Fox to MAKE it a way to undermine the judicial process. This is literally echoing Right wing arguing points for them. Sounds right. Seems that most sites are talking about how angry they are about what she said or quoting the judge talking about what she said, without actually quoting or even paraphrasing what she said.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:Or the chain of command that knew and apparently came away just fine, since there was a convenient scapegoat? Yeah, that sucks but it sounds about right for the comparison. After all, police chiefs are very rarely fired or forced to resign after their officers kill someone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:16
|
|
|
mdemone posted:Yeah, that sucks but it sounds about right for the comparison. After all, police chiefs are very rarely fired or forced to resign after their officers kill someone. I'm pleasantly surprised it actually happened in Brooklyn Center.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:18
|
|
|
When I joined the MPs in 2005 in the Army we were told in no uncertain terms that if we violated the use of force continuum and policies we would go to Forever Jail.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:35
|
|
|
Cage Kicker posted:When I joined the MPs in 2005 in the Army we were told in no uncertain terms that if we violated the use of force continuum and policies we would go to Forever Jail. It owns how the US military is less trigger happy compared to US cops.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:37
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
suck my woke dick posted:It owns how the US military is less trigger happy compared to US cops. I feel like I've read dozens of testimonials from ex servicemen and women about how disgusted they are at the lack of discipline and training Police get for the weapons they are given and the situations they are put into.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
I have no idea what Maxine Waters said or didn’t say, but I’m confused how anything she’d say might be grounds for appeal given that the jurors are ostensibly sequestered and only living in the world of the courtroom right now?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:45
|
|
|
They’re sequestered for deliberation, for the trial itself they were just instructed not to watch the news, iirc. And I wouldn’t spend too much energy worrying about the appeal right now (which looks pretty flimsy, but it’s the defense’s job to make it possible).
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:50
|
|
|
idiotsavant posted:I have no idea what Maxine Waters said or didn’t say, but I’m confused how anything she’d say might be grounds for appeal given that the jurors are ostensibly sequestered and only living in the world of the courtroom right now? They weren't sequestered during the trial and the defense attorney brought up his frustration with that when he was making the point about Waters
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:52
|
|
|
idiotsavant posted:I have no idea what Maxine Waters said or didn’t say, but I’m confused how anything she’d say might be grounds for appeal given that the jurors are ostensibly sequestered and only living in the world of the courtroom right now? https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/maxine-waters-derek-chauvin-trial/index.html Maxine Waters posted:Waters said she was in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, on Saturday night to show her support for protesters amid ongoing protests over the police killing of Daunte Wright and to also support his family. Here's a video with the defense's argument against what Ms. Waters said, for context of what all this call of a mistrial is about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYjrAdcQBDU
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 17:53
|
|
|
Kalit posted:
The Judge verbatim said that what Maxim Waters did could overturn the trial. "I give you that congresswomen Waters may have give you something on appeal, that may result in this whole trial being overturned."
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:02
|
|
|
Gunthen posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/confrontational-maxine-waters-undeterred-marjorie-taylor-greene-criticism-chauvin-trial-n1264534 You read a sentence that had two separate "mays" in it, both of which individually need to occur for a verdict to be overturned, and somehow jumped to "definitely will." The person you're replying to made it really clear that Waters didn't do something that will cause the trial to be overturned, just that it may be something that comes up in appeal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
suck my woke dick posted:It owns how the US military is less trigger happy compared to US cops. I think it has a lot to do with accountability. A military policeman is delegated the Garrison Commander's Responsibility and Authority to maintain law and order on post. At posts I was at, if you hit someone or deployed OC spray and there was any question of necessity, you and your company commander got to go explain to the General why you are beating up his soldiers on his post.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:06
|
|
|
Cage Kicker posted:I think it has a lot to do with accountability. A military policeman is delegated the Garrison Commander's Responsibility and Authority to maintain law and order on post. At posts I was at, if you hit someone or deployed OC spray and there was any question of necessity, you and your company commander got to go explain to the General why you are beating up his soldiers on his post. It would own if cops were required to justify any use of force in front of local community members, but then again most of the time it'd probably be a bunch of racist busybodies turning up to applaud the cops for roughing up minorities and youths.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:09
|
|
|
Objectively it's the defense attourney's job to bring up avenues for appeal and he honestly did a good job making it appear as such. We all want Chauvin to get convicted and he definitely deserves it, but I can't say the defense did a bad job considering the poo poo hand they were dealt.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
suck my woke dick posted:It would own if cops were required to justify any use of force in front of local community members, but then again most of the time it'd probably be a bunch of racist busybodies turning up to applaud the cops for roughing up minorities and youths. In this case it would be roughly the equivalent of having to answer to the mayor, with the knowledge he can fire you, dock your pay, or even have you put on trial for anything you do on shift.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
Cage Kicker posted:In this case it would be roughly the equivalent of having to answer to the mayor, with the knowledge he can fire you, dock your pay, or even have you put on trial for anything you do on shift. That would own very hard and everywhere should implement it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
Yeah there's definitely zero chance that doesn't end up in a massive corruption scandal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:16
|
|
|
Baron Porkface posted:Noted peaceful utopia and well-run city LA. Tell me more about how horrible LA is, while we discuss the "violent" rhetoric of this "low IQ individual" Maxine Waters. Love to watch SA threads basically turn into Trump tweets because right wing media started blasting bad faith arguments about what she says.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:46 |
|
|
Gunthen posted:The Judge verbatim said that what Maxim Waters did could overturn the trial. As Ravenfood stated, the may in the statement is carrying a lot of weight. Which is why I stated that this just meant to bring it up in appeals. That's far, far different than claiming Judge Cahill saying it is cause for the case to get overturned, like you previously stated.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2021 18:19
|
|