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Oof, the massive increase to the total cost of raising ground is rough, goddamn. Even lowering the technical cost of a single raise ground action doesn't do all that much to offset the fact that you now need to do it ten or twenty times where you used to have to do it once.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:56
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Lozareth posted:I made a lighthouse because is it even a base if it doesn't have one? Plus that small peninsula was just begging for it. Nice! How did you get the bonfire up that high?
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Apr 20, 2021 17:15
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Judging by the size of the spiral, there's a raised column of rock in the middle.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:23
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Bonfires were stealth changed a patch or two back to being able to be built on stone or iron wood. No raised earth in my lighthouse; it's all stone reinforced by hidden iron wood.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:27
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yeah the changes to raising ground kind of wreck any plans to build out into water, which is a massive bummer. i appreciate everything else, especially pickaxe creating natural slopes by default, but this is a massive nerf to raising ground and screws a lot of ambitious water construction ideas.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:27
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AccountSupervisor posted:The terrain optimization definitely helps a bit but it wont save bases that are crazy laggy. Trying not to think how much data one floorboard in the house of a friend of a friend who hasnt played since day 2 is eating up cause every object needs its physics loaded 24/7 One nice thing about the update, no more slideshow gardening. I fell so behind on turnip seed cycling out of frustration. Blaise330 fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 17:31
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GlyphGryph posted:Oof, the massive increase to the total cost of raising ground is rough, goddamn. Even lowering the technical cost of a single raise ground action doesn't do all that much to offset the fact that you now need to do it ten or twenty times where you used to have to do it once.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:36
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It was previously "single raise ground action to raise adjacent ground to the same height as the spot you point at". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAxplJ1KM20&t=63s Now as far as I can tell building out landfill for extending bases isn't even possible without really hacky bullshit.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:38
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Ravenfood posted:Was there some way to raise ground instantly to a higher level that just isn't intuitive? The way people are talking there's some huge change that makes raising ground harder the way I've been doing it its a lot easier. You used to be able to bring ground up to your raised region with one click on the edge of your raised ground. Four stone hypothetically to just about max out height meaning you could move down and make a wall click by click. Now every step of wall has to be raised from the ground up. The only reason to do this seems to be “we cant entirely optimize terrain terraforming so maybe this will just discourage it.” No idea why anyone building wouldn’t go straight to creative mode except I don’t think that’s possible on dedicated servers.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:40
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GlyphGryph posted:It was previously "single raise ground action to raise adjacent ground to the same height as the spot you point at". e: Not saying it isn't a shame that some types of building aren't options anymore, but mostly thinking that this change was just a byproduct of the rest of their terrain changes, not something deliberate. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 17:42
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The best strategy for FPS is a portal hub, full stop. Build single-purpose buildings out of render range of each other and connect them by portals to a single central hub. This also cuts down dramatically on the amount of redundant areas, because even a small village takes longer to get around than two hops through the hub. If someone wants to build a village or a castle that's fine, just make sure they're doing it because that's what they want to do, and don't house any of the single purpose industrial scale buildings there. It's not like there's any shortage of land in this game.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:42
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Ravenfood posted:That seems pretty clearly unintended, tbh, given how you have to aim it precisely at corners in a way that doesn't match with the planning indicator. Like, its really clear that the game is trying to apply the intended "raise ground 1 unit" to a corner that would then be unsupported, so raises all the other ground around it for free. Yeah, I don't think any of us on our server even knew about this trick and seemed to get along just fine, so we're all just pleased the stone cost was cut in half.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:50
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Ravenfood posted:Was there some way to raise ground instantly to a higher level that just isn't intuitive? The way people are talking there's some huge change that makes raising ground harder the way I've been doing it its a lot easier. I had built up two island farm bases - the first was a learning experience, but the second was MUCH easier. I found the center of the island, stood on top of it, and used the raise-ground tool about 20-30 times to raise the ground as high as the game would let me. Hop down, build some scaffolding, and work in a circle using the raise-ground tool on the edges of this peak - it would instantly pop-up that square of ground to the very tippy-top of the peak, costing only 4 stone per side, expanding the high point until it was almost a mesa - flat and wide, with very steep walls. This method supposedly no longer works, and we're only able to raise ground 1 square at a time - no more skipping up to max height. weekly font posted:No idea why anyone building wouldn’t go straight to creative mode except I don’t think that’s possible on dedicated servers. You can at least turn on debugmode using https://www.nexusmods.com/valheim/mods/795 which allows for building with all blueprints/no materials.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:58
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Ravenfood posted:That seems pretty clearly unintended, tbh, given how you have to aim it precisely at corners in a way that doesn't match with the planning indicator. Like, its really clear that the game is trying to apply the intended "raise ground 1 unit" to a corner that would then be unsupported, so raises all the other ground around it for free. I agree that it was unintended, and I also think that with this terrain optimization and hopefully more coming down the pike, they'll introduce more terraforming options that will bring back this functionality without weird hacky pinpointing bullshit that most people had to YouTube to learn about. People clearly liked it and used it to make some keen builds, these guys so far strike me as wanting to encourage the creative side of the game. I'll probably toss them the suggestion, wouldn't hurt if others did too, to add that mass raising functionality back into the game as its own new operation on the hoe menu.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:23
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Otacon posted:I had built up two island farm bases - the first was a learning experience, but the second was MUCH easier.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:24
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EmbryoSteve posted:Wtf are you'll talking about. I've always had to raise ground one square at a time See?
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Apr 20, 2021 18:25
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EmbryoSteve posted:Wtf are you'll talking about. I've always had to raise ground one square at a time Compare this (prepatch) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAxplJ1KM20&t=63s to this (postpatch) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv8xkQtjhig&t=58s
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Apr 20, 2021 18:26
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I understand how people could miss it, but it's not THAT esoteric. It's not exactly intuitive, but nothing about how the hoe works is. It's very hard to do any serious ground raising without accidentally stumbling upon the behaviour. It's a definitely a lot easier to figure out than anything regarding the level ground logic, which I still don't fully understand, and I'm assuming that's changed too in some way I haven't figure out yet. (I *think* it works by drawing a line straight down from your position until it hits the ground mesh, regardless of any intervening terrain features, and then tries to bring each point in a radius of the point you clicked down or up to the level of that point? But that doesn't completely mirror my experience so who knows) I do think it was an artifact of implementation rather than intended feature, and I'm not being like *shakes fist at devs for removing it* or anything. It just makes things a lot more tedious not having it here. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 18:34
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GlyphGryph posted:I understand how people could miss it, but it's not THAT esoteric. It's not exactly intuitive, but nothing about how the hoe works is. It's very hard to do any serious ground raising without accidentally stumbling upon the behaviour. If you terraformed enough I don't see how you wouldn't find it accidentally at some point. And yeah, I'm not super butthurt about it cause Valheim building for me is a "debug mode on, cool tunes, weed, zen out" kind of experience and the time I put into it isn't the point. Still, I'd like things to be a little more streamlined. Plus, their attempted nerfing of the hoe/hammer last patch doesn't leave me with the utmost confidence that they realize their core base is way more into the creative building than the survival with the limited content they have. People aren't tuning in to twitch/youtube or upvoting reddit posts about people killing Moder for the 9th time. Until there's more content the giant cathedrals and coliseums people come up with will keep the game relevant. Otacon posted:
Thanks for this!
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Apr 20, 2021 18:55
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GlyphGryph posted:...level ground logic, which I still don't fully understand, and I'm assuming that's changed too in some way I haven't figure out yet. (I *think* it works by drawing a line straight down from your position until it hits the ground mesh, regardless of any intervening terrain features, and then tries to bring each point in a radius of the point you clicked down or up to the level of that point? But that doesn't completely mirror my experience so who knows) Yes, that's the Level Ground Logic, but there are caveats. From what we understand about terrain generation, it seems that the game creates a map by first raising arbitrarily-sized islands out of the ocean, assigning biomes to sections of them based on the distance from the top edge, bottom edge, and center of the world, then creating rivers and hills and mountains based on those biomes. Then it locks that mesh in, that mesh is now the world mesh. Then it generates trees and rocks plants and deposits and structures. These change the height of parts of the world, but they do not change the world mesh. That's important, because Level Ground can only move the ground so far away from where the World Mesh says it should be. This is why in some places Level Ground can't raise or lower the ground even in a new world, because object generation has already moved it further than Level Ground is allowed to. Using a pickaxe or Raise Ground will move that center point and allow Level Ground to move things again, but there's also a maximum and minimum terrain height in any given location, defined by distance from the World Mesh height in that location. Those are hard limits, nothing short of mods can move the height of the ground above the maximum or below the minimum, and even mods have trouble sometimes. That's why Level Ground doesn't always work the way you want, there are limits to what it can do that are unclear. That's also why you can't often bring the Ocean biome to the surface, because the Maximum is still below sea level. Source: I use terrain modification tools in this game way too loving much and read about them on the internet.
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Apr 20, 2021 22:18
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I like the changes to the hoe. I always kinda figured that the way of raising ground via clicking on the high corner was a byproduct of Valheim being in early access, so it's not surprising to see it go away. I really like the fix for high amounts of terrain modification causing fps drops. It shows that the devs' priorities are in the right place, imo. I built my main base on a spot rather far from natural bodies of water because there was a maypole. Now I can mod the game to allow unlimited digging/ground raising, and won't have to worry about the fps loss that would've come with it.
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Apr 20, 2021 23:12
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Doesn't Level Ground just set ground to be at the same level as your feet?
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Apr 20, 2021 23:24
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Colonel J posted:Doesn't Level Ground just set ground to be at the same level as your feet? Yeah in theory, but I've found in practice it never works 100%. I'm not counting the times there's a rocky area you can't raise or lower, I mean sometimes I have to hit the hoe on the same spot about 10 times before it properly flattens. I haven't tried it since this change though.
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Apr 20, 2021 23:29
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Colonel J posted:Doesn't Level Ground just set ground to be at the same level as your feet? In normal mode yes, if you hold shift it will level to the height the target thingy is at.
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Apr 21, 2021 00:13
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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So my friend and I are building one of those Plains rock spire citadels and are putting together a foundation for one of the towers. I started building a stone floor because we want to put smelting and such in it and while supporting the slabs with a lattice of core wood beams worked for some horizontal distance eventually they started breaking immediately even when on top of the beams. Anyone ever tried doing anything like that? Is there some kind of minimum stability stone has to be sitting on to stay intact?
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Apr 21, 2021 00:20
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Kibayasu posted:So my friend and I are building one of those Plains rock spire citadels and are putting together a foundation for one of the towers. I started building a stone floor because we want to put smelting and such in it and while supporting the slabs with a lattice of core wood beams worked for some horizontal distance eventually they started breaking immediately even when on top of the beams. Anyone ever tried doing anything like that? Is there some kind of minimum stability stone has to be sitting on to stay intact? As a matter of fact, every material has a minimum and maximum support value, as well as modifiers for vertical and horizontal stacking. https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Building_Stability
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Apr 21, 2021 00:38
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Colonel J posted:Doesn't Level Ground just set ground to be at the same level as your feet? Absolutely not. It 100% does not care where your feet are, height-wise. You can be standing way above the ground and level ground will still lower it, if the place *under* where you are standing is under where the ground currently is. Basically, trying to level ground from on top of any sort of construction is a nightmare. Or at least that's how it used to work.
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Apr 21, 2021 01:05
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Mooktastical posted:I like the changes to the hoe. I always kinda figured that the way of raising ground via clicking on the high corner was a byproduct of Valheim being in early access, so it's not surprising to see it go away. On the one hand yes, on the other hand until/unless raise ground ends up having a 1:1 cost with "the amount of rock you get from digging into the ground once with a pickaxe", I'm not going to feel remotely bad about modding the raise ground cost to 0 if I ever sit down to build something for real. GlyphGryph posted:Absolutely not. It 100% does not care where your feet are, height-wise. You can be standing way above the ground and level ground will still lower it, if the place *under* where you are standing is under where the ground currently is. Eh, acshually Level Ground by default uses the height of the ground directly under your feet, which is part* of why it feels so unintuitive-- even if you're levelling ground 10 feet away, it'll try to level it to where you're standing. If you hold down shift, though, it does the expected thing of "levelling to the center of where the cursor is". I feel like that should have been flipped by default but here we are. *the other part being "it will only raise/lower the ground so much regardless so you can still end up with not-actually-level ground", especially if you're standing on top of a vertical hump, but yeah in terms of just standing in a flattish area and levelling nearby flattish area it'll use your foot placement as the source height
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Apr 21, 2021 01:14
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Eh, acshually This is the behaviour I described earlier and is how it works as far as I can tell, yes. It is also exceptionally different from the behaviour I was responding to in your quote, so I'm not sure why you're "well achsually"-ing me here? The game 100% does not base the height target for level ground on the vertical height of your feet, as you just reaffirmed, which was the original claim.
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Apr 21, 2021 01:41
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plester1 posted:As a matter of fact, every material has a minimum and maximum support value, as well as modifiers for vertical and horizontal stacking. So I think you said yes?  So if I’m reading this right a material will provide X support/stability and will lose a multiplier of that X as you go up or out without attachment to the ground or other game feature. So I guess the answer is, like everything ambitious building-wise, more ironwood. Or at least a decent size core of it jutting out from the spire to attach logs to.
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Apr 21, 2021 02:20
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That ramp generation fix is so nice! I couldve saved so much time carving out ramps if they were smooth 45s like it is now.
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Apr 21, 2021 02:36
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You could make ramps before just by starting at the bottom and looking up at the wall with about a 45° angle.
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Apr 21, 2021 02:42
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Colonel J posted:Doesn't Level Ground just set ground to be at the same level as your feet? Youll always get some divots or sharp edges that need to be filled or smashed of you go for flat land of any decent size.
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Apr 21, 2021 04:25
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Just spent an hour taming wolves for the first time, was taking them back to meadows through black forest near swamp and they instantly died to skeletons I rage quit argh
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Apr 21, 2021 19:14
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mastershakeman posted:Just spent an hour taming wolves for the first time, was taking them back to meadows through black forest near swamp and they instantly died to skeletons I'm about to try Bonemass with 3 other people who don't really play the game too much. I have a feeling it will go terribly, but we'll see!
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Apr 21, 2021 19:19
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Do tamed star wolves still disappear if you leave them and it's not night?
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Apr 21, 2021 19:31
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Bioshuffle posted:The best way to do this in my experience (if we're talking about regular wolves not two star ones) is to set up a separate breeding zone and just bring home a pair. This is the only way to ensure a troll invasion won't wipe out your entire wolf clan and force you to start anew. That's what I was trying to do, I just tamed them in the mountains. The run back from it is weird (due to construction projects) so I guess I'm going to make a specific path/slope to get them back now
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Apr 21, 2021 19:32
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Spikes32 posted:Do tamed star wolves still disappear if you leave them and it's not night? Pretty sure they said they fixed that in patch notes. Anyone have some cool window designs for a relatively small house overlooking an ocean? My cliffside swamp house needs some decoration.
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Apr 21, 2021 19:43
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Kibayasu posted:So I think you said yes? Here's a visual guide. You can see how you trade horizontal width for vertical width with ironwood, and how you can go 8 high with stone but only 1 or 2 wide because it has low horizontal support.
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Apr 21, 2021 20:07
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Ravenfood posted:Pretty sure they said they fixed that in patch notes. Roundpole fences can actually look really good in a window if you place them lined up just right.
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Apr 21, 2021 20:09
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