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Phosphine posted:It doesn't happen to me every time, but it happens often. It's definitely vanilla. OP was talking about unemployed rulers, not unemployed specialists. Might be the same underlying cause though Maybe this is all just the result of race condition shenanigans, like you upgrade a building that provides rulers and the logic breaks down to "remove 1 ruler job, add 2 ruler jobs" instead of just "add 1 ruler job", and then whether the ruler that was removed gets back into one of the new ruler jobs is down to chance. This is just a guess. The community has discovered dumber behavior in the Stellaris population rules before, such as pops flipping between enslaved/freed every other day (does this still happen? I haven't played with a 40% slave ratio civic in a long time)
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Apr 21, 2021 09:03
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QuarkJets posted:OP was talking about unemployed rulers, not unemployed specialists. Might be the same underlying cause though
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Apr 21, 2021 09:07
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That's a good possible explanation. We know that traits and things like citizenship rights determine job weighting, so upgrading a structure forces a re-evaluation of job priorities and causes a better-suited pop (whether due to migration or genetic modification or whatever else) to take the job, resulting in an unemployed former-ruler or former-specialist. IIRC even a pop's ethics can play a role in job weight, and that can change over time too
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Apr 21, 2021 09:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wxnkO-vtD0 Stefan made a video on pop growth. Whoo boy you can get some insane bonuses. I did not realize that the pop growth from pops themselves goes to Base Growth. You know what that means? EVERY SINGLE MODIFIER goes off the increased value. This makes Rapid Breeder and such even stronger early on, and actually makes the Fertile Trait and Ecumenopolis insane.
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Apr 21, 2021 09:43
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The whole pop/job system seems like a bit of a convoluted mess, which is probably why they never seem to get it working just right.
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Apr 21, 2021 09:44
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I had an unemployed ruler sitting around for ages in my current game on a planet I had just conquered (Fanatic Purifier, so it was a new-growth pop causing it). Only non-cosmetic mod is guilli's. It can definitely happen.yikes! posted:It’s interesting that you don’t get the bug but tbh jumping straight to “it’s your mods dummy” is a bit insulting With a lovely bit of timing, the post above yours was complaining about something from a mod they installed. QuarkJets posted:That's not what I said, but if you want an excuse to feel outrage over I guess I don't mind being the target. Cmon, you know better than that surely. "It happens to everyone all the time" isn't the definition of a bug
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Apr 21, 2021 10:42
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Cmon, you know better than that surely. "It happens to everyone all the time" isn't the definition of a bug It never happens to me. Other posters came forth to say that it never happens to them, and still other posters came forth to say that it happens to them often. Strange behavior that happens to some people but not others is a far cry from "It happens to everyone all the time". I tend to play monoculture empires, so the theory at the top of this page seems like a pretty good explanation. That comes down to a difference in game state, like I said
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Apr 21, 2021 10:48
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I've never seen that bug. I also hate managing divergent pops and mostly play genocidal (it's a space war sim to me) so the different species seems like a likely explanation both because it fits the problem and why it would hit different players differently.
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Apr 21, 2021 11:45
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ilkhan posted:I've never seen that bug. As mentioned, happened to me with Fanatical Purifiers yesterday. It's not down to different species.
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Apr 21, 2021 11:46
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I'm almost certain it has to do with upgrading the main building and the job being gone for like a nanosecond. And because Paradox has infinite wisdom, the game doesn't check if there's an unemployed ruler pop first.
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Apr 21, 2021 11:48
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QuarkJets posted:OP was talking about unemployed rulers, not unemployed specialists. Might be the same underlying cause though The OP also said specialists, but someone followed up with taking about disabling rulers, which I think was just a misunderstanding. I've never seen it happen with any of the following upgrades, so my best guess is that it's because the colonist job disappears and a different job appears, while the other upgrades just add new/more of the same, never remove any.
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Apr 21, 2021 11:54
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Maybe it's connected to ethos of the pops? I have gotten it some times but it haven't bothered me that much that I have looked into it. If I understand it correctly it goes like this: New colony admin building: 2 Colonist jobs in Specialist Strata First upgrade: 2 Admin jobs in Ruler Strata, 1 Enforcer in Specialist. The issue seems to be that instead of the specialists promoting to rulers, it grabs workers, leaving 1 specialist without a job, since his Colonist job is gone and there is only 1 enforcer. As for why it only shows up sometimes, maybe it is Ethos and happiness, since Rulers have more political power? I have no idea if the promoting thing even weights for that tho.
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Apr 21, 2021 11:58
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QuarkJets posted:That's a good possible explanation. We know that traits and things like citizenship rights determine job weighting, so upgrading a structure forces a re-evaluation of job priorities and causes a better-suited pop (whether due to migration or genetic modification or whatever else) to take the job, resulting in an unemployed former-ruler or former-specialist. IIRC even a pop's ethics can play a role in job weight, and that can change over time too Getting worse, in a multiculture the best colonist might not be the best administrator/enforcer so the game might deliberately promote up employed workers or specialists.* So assuming this is all correct, if I'm currently monopop and my colony has some basic robots on it, a bunch of specialist jobs, and only a couple of bio-filled farmer jobs, odds are very low that I'll see an issue. I still might, but it's extremely low. If you've got a migration treaty with a charismatic race and upgrade the head of your literally-just-farms colony that you originally settled with a bunch of your repugnant primary species then you're almost certainly going to see problems. * Jobs are weighted to keep a pop in the job they're in to prevent excess shuffling, so by the time you have 10 pops your current colonists might not even be the best colonists anymore. They should still promote up when slots are available, but in some cases the right combination of traits means the weighting for a particular pop in a particular specialist job is actually higher than a new ruler job. So all your alloy guys could be sitting on 1500 weighting toward staying in alloy jobs so the dice is rolling to pick 3 high level pops out of two unemployed specialists and four farmers. Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 12:45
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I've now watched it happen live. There's two ways: the first is that you conquer a planet with a branch office when you can't have them, and the merchant job disappears. The second is that a purge of a large planet will have a merchant job created by the Prosperity tree, and then the planet size drops quickly and you lose the job - either way unemployed ruler. BUT! It doesn't happen all the time - because when you capture a planet, the "favoured jobs" tag is retained from the previous empire, which means that your newly arrived pops might be preferentially farmers first - bugs defeating bugs. It's a slightly more localised issue that you can see whenever you conquer a planet from a regular empire with a gestalt - for a brief period of time, the UI shows both the gestalt and regular set of districts. MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 12:47
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Do you guys make official bug reports about all the broken things (including AI) that you notice? The PDX party line seems to be that unless it's in an official report, it won't get processed.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:49
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QuarkJets posted:Strange behavior that happens to some people but not others is a far cry from "It happens to everyone all the time". I tend to play monoculture empires, so the theory at the top of this page seems like a pretty good explanation. That comes down to a difference in game state, like I said Anyway, tangent aside, in mono culture empires it may have something to do with having a civic that grants a special kind of ruler job because I tended to run Byzantine Bureaucracy before it got nerfed into the ground, Exalted Priesthood, or Technocracy and the Specialist being unemployed on an upgraded colony happened to me all the danged time. Or it could be entirely down to what Splicer found in the code. Regardless, its definitely a vanilla thing even if it doesnt happen to a few people that post in this thread because I only ever used tiny outliner as my one and only mod.
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Apr 21, 2021 13:01
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Playing robots right now. I managed to subvert a pheromone node in the devouring swarm to my south and then abuse it to steal habitat tech. Feels good. But  are the AI-empires bad at that whole strategy-thing. One of my allies suddenly asked if I want to join a war against the devouring swarm (just after they declared themselves crisis) and I said "does not compute", as I was busy fortifying and improving my borders for the inevitable conflict with the swarm and didn't feel ready yet for all-out war.Of course the big dummies decide to go ahead with the war anyway, and lose big stretches of territory to the swarm. Welp. Good thing I was fortifying that border too, not just the region around the wormhole connecting robotopia and swarmland 
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Apr 21, 2021 14:26
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Do robot workers count towards total empire pop and therefore contribute to slowdown? Do robot workers and/or gestalt machine empires have the same growth curve mechanics as organic empires?
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Apr 21, 2021 14:55
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I usually replace the colonists with entertainers pretty quickly, which is probably why I haven't have problems with this.
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Apr 21, 2021 14:59
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Staltran posted:I usually replace the colonists with entertainers pretty quickly, which is probably why I haven't have problems with this. Are you saying you turn off jobs and force unemployment when those jobs are middling? How dare you sir.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:06
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Deuce posted:Do robot workers count towards total empire pop and therefore contribute to slowdown? Yes to all. Robots also become slower to build the more organic pops you have. It's all pops. Driven assimilators (and caretakers?) also have a base -50% organic pop growth from when I toned them down a bit, which might be too harsh now since both their pops growing also means they slow down twice as fast.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:09
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Darkrenown posted:Yes to all. Robots also become slower to build the more organic pops you have. It's all pops. Explains why my Mechanist empire seemed sluggish. Building terrible robots everywhere. P.S. I want a void dweller Terravore, damnit.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:20
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QuarkJets posted:OP was talking about unemployed rulers, not unemployed specialists. Might be the same underlying cause though The pop that ends up unemployed for me is a specialist. The way I fix it is by disabling the ruler jobs because the newly promoted pops will demote immediately back to workers (there's a grace period but IDK how long it is). When I turn them back on, the unemployed specialist promotes before anyone else so it's probably an issue with the add/remove order I agree. Also, sorry I got aggro earlier. I should have known to specify it was vanilla. Splicer posted:Does it happen more often with monocultures or melting pots? Maybe the logic is shoving in the best pop for the job regardless of stratum which might be a different species. The most recent time this happened I was playing egal/fan xenophobe with meritocracy+mining guilds. I had only my one species in my empire, it wasn't bio-modded, and I hadn't even gotten robots yet.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:23
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QuarkJets posted:OP was talking about unemployed rulers, not unemployed specialists. Might be the same underlying cause though My eye started tic-ing at this. EUTAB (Ethos Unique Techs and Buildings) is a great mod but this happens with it a lot.  E: Might as well link it (not 3.x updated yet but the developer has indicated it will be).
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Apr 21, 2021 15:30
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how is stellaris in 2021/what are the recommended mods? I haven't played in about 3 years, so i assume it's slightly more finished, like most paradox games
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Apr 21, 2021 15:43
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Well after last night's session my robots are in an ok place, still way worse off than pre-3.0. I guess I need to expand much slower (I went to four colonies fast, which was usually safe lol), and keep planets extra focused? On the other hand, I'm making ungodly amounts of alloys off of apparently one building, so lol. Also we bought the dlc and found an L-Gate 
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Apr 21, 2021 15:43
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:how is stellaris in 2021/what are the recommended mods? I haven't played in about 3 years, so i assume it's slightly more finished, like most paradox games A massive patch just dropped last week, so most mods are toast other than the UI ones. They actually -no joke- finally put in a win condition! You have to pay for it though. Game's mostly still trash, just a lot more complicated trash for the discerning consumer.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:47
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Serephina posted:A massive patch just dropped last week, so most mods are toast other than the UI ones. They actually -no joke- finally put in a win condition! You have to pay for it though. Game's mostly still trash, just a lot more complicated trash for the discerning consumer. It's the most addicting trash game I've ever played. Schadenboner posted:My eye started tic-ing at this. This actually looks pretty cool.
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Apr 21, 2021 15:55
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RBA Starblade posted:Well after last night's session my robots are in an ok place, still way worse off than pre-3.0. I guess I need to expand much slower (I went to four colonies fast, which was usually safe lol), and keep planets extra focused? On the other hand, I'm making ungodly amounts of alloys off of apparently one building, so lol.
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Apr 21, 2021 16:08
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I just colonise anything yellow habitability or higher I can get in my borders. Why go slow, each planet you get multiplies your population growth
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Apr 21, 2021 16:11
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Yami Fenrir posted:It's the most addicting trash game I've ever played. It's the worst game I've ever played 1100+ hours of.
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Apr 21, 2021 16:13
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AG3 posted:It's the worst game I've ever played 1100+ hours of.
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Apr 21, 2021 16:42
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Splicer posted:Yeah I started a new game and slow and steady seems to be the way to go. I colonised my garaunteeds and when I'm happy with where an existing planet is at then I'm starting on a new one. With my recent integration of a decent sized vassal, I identified planets in their empire I had no desire to develop (those without positive modifiers or interesting/useful tiles) and demolished every district and every building, letting them resettle into the Better Worlds(tm) of the Core. I even decided to apply this to planets I'd colonized myself but had not yet turned them into Gaias via the relic. My 4 ecumenopoli actually have decent pops now (at least 50 each), and when I get a ring world online with agriculture districts, then all those ag heavy planets are going to get reshuffled, and when the matter decompressors come online, that's the mining worlds getting shut down. Eventually I plan to have the entire empire be coalesced into the ecumenopoli sectors and core sector, everything else just sprawl.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:18
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AG3 posted:It's the worst game I've ever played 1100+ hours of.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:19
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Familiarity breeds contempt? Or just we're so close to it for so long we see the flaws close up? Somewhere around those two phrases. We wish for 'better'. Or at least less problems.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:21
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Bloodly posted:Familiarity breeds contempt? Or just we're so close to it for so long we see the flaws close up? Somewhere around those two phrases. We wish for 'better'. Or at least less problems. Familiarity? They've re-invented the game several times over now. It's always been 2 steps forward and 1 step back - but it's unrecognizable from Stellaris 1.0 at this point in terms of mechanics. I've really enjoyed the complete reworks of the game over and over as it's kept things interesting - but at the same time the fact that they still can't get it quite right is disappointing.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:23
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the managers treat programming as O(n), but the depressing fact is that its O(2^n) same deal w the game design, only its worse cuz its numerics lol
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Apr 21, 2021 17:26
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Bloodly posted:Familiarity breeds contempt? Or just we're so close to it for so long we see the flaws close up? Somewhere around those two phrases. We wish for 'better'. Or at least less problems. My opinion is that events/unique ethos/ascension paths give the game a lot of leg to start, just once you exhaust those then all that's left is the gameplay which doesn't quite hold up. Once all the mystery is gone it loses it's charm.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:36
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Bloodly posted:Familiarity breeds contempt? Or just we're so close to it for so long we see the flaws close up? Somewhere around those two phrases. We wish for 'better'. Or at least less problems.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:38
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AG3 posted:It's the worst game I've ever played 1100+ hours of. Thread title, right here.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:47
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