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sean10mm posted:I have beaten the game multiple times and want to do a 6/6/6/6 start, what's the best way to cheat up my attributes and skills? I believe you can just edit your save file, it's all in plaintext so it's pretty easy to change the values
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Apr 20, 2021 13:25
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AceOfFlames posted:That is definitely one of the scariest concepts to me. I do know a few people who are EXTRAORDINARILY unreflective and seemingly unable to be alone. I can't help but wonder if they have this lack of inner voice. no, those are people who hate themselves. depending on how much weight you gave to neuro studies on decision making, the internal monologue is either something that happens after a decision process or is unrelated to it. You could just as easily argue that people without an internal monologue are actually lying to themselves far less often, or lying to themselves silently. All three are certainly wrong, and iirc a lack of internal processes like monologue or imagery doesn't have political/personality/skill associations the way that "all processes, but very bad at them" does
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Apr 20, 2021 13:47
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Had a thought last night. I'm finishing up a 4th playthrough and some scenes are just a moving and powerful to me as the first time I saw them. The game just emotionally resonates very well. And yet... on the surface, it's a story about a hosed-up sad-sack white guy who just gets loaded because he's obsessed over a woman that broke his heart. This is basically what every 20 year old white dude in your creative writing class writes and it's basically a cliché at this point that men writing about how they're hosed up and self-destructive is tedious. How do you think Disco Elysium manages to avoid that tediousness? My initial thought was that Harry is often very funny when he's loving up, but almost never cool. They some how manage to keep things funny and entertaining while still making it pathetic. I think inexperienced writers can't resist making their self-destruction still a little cool, and DE smartly keeps Harry cringe at almost all times.
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Apr 20, 2021 13:47
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mary had a little clam posted:Had a thought last night. I'm finishing up a 4th playthrough and some scenes are just a moving and powerful to me as the first time I saw them. The game just emotionally resonates very well.
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Apr 20, 2021 13:52
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mary had a little clam posted:Had a thought last night. I'm finishing up a 4th playthrough and some scenes are just a moving and powerful to me as the first time I saw them. The game just emotionally resonates very well. i think it just speaks to alot of people like us(u40 online weirdos who lean left on some level and have read something higher then harry potter) and it helps that it has every writing trope/trick that appeals to millenials and zoomers. its very stream of consciousness and has that humor where its really dark and hosed up and cringe and kinda violent and cynical BUT it also is weirdly wholesome and genuine throughout. Fabricated posted:It works because even though you start as a blank slate essentially where you fill in many of the blanks yourself- Harry is a full-fledged character outside of having his soul crushed by a single sad thing that happened. You can go pretty much the whole game without knowing really anything about his ex and he's still Harry. also this. you write your own character sheet so sure you always the same dude but your different interpretations of him.
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Apr 20, 2021 13:52
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Here's my input on why I think Disco Elysium is so good despite having a fairly basic and cliche narrative (esp. for the protagonist's development) : In short, it works because of how well the execution's done--the complexity of the story and its elements, and the way traits and skills and gameplay and player choice can bith drastically AND SUBTLY alter the plot in ways we haven't seen much in games. And all of those positive things link back into how stellar the writing for this game is, and how they're unafraid to try new things and go in new directions. All of that elevates the simplicity of the base concept. It sort of negates the whole sad man misses lover, gets self-destructively hedonistic to numb self and also winds up with retrograde amnesia Edit: also, it's set in a well-built world that actually feels alive thanks to things like shivers and esprit de corpse and inland empire and encyclopedia, etc., which all give you exposition and bits of the story you don't get otherwise. The setting dies a good job at being an original fantasy world that still has plenty of aspects that carry over from reality. It is neither as detached nor as samey as a lot of high fantasy and sci fi fantasy type stuff. Not to suggest there is nothing at all even vaguely like it, but that there isn't much. Terra-da-loo! fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 14:12
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I'm doing my second playthrough but first with Final Cut, how do I start the new content? I've almost finished polishing off the side-quests but haven't found any leads on how to start the vision quests. Can you do all of them in the same run? Pre-reqs?
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Apr 20, 2021 15:30
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tripwood posted:I'm doing my second playthrough but first with Final Cut, how do I start the new content? I've almost finished polishing off the side-quests but haven't found any leads on how to start the vision quests. Can you do all of them in the same run? Pre-reqs? My understanding is you have to unlock (but not necessarily research) the relevant thought for the thought cabinet and have enough points from saying commie/ultra/centrist/fash things. The morning of Day 4 is when it kicks off with one of your skills going HAY SO HOW ABOUT WE DO A THING. Like for communism I didn't research (trivial spoiler I guess) Mazovian Socio-Economics and put it in my cabinet, but had learned about the thought and I said tons of commie poo poo and it triggered.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:37
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tripwood posted:I'm doing my second playthrough but first with Final Cut, how do I start the new content? I've almost finished polishing off the side-quests but haven't found any leads on how to start the vision quests. Can you do all of them in the same run? Pre-reqs? It triggers overnight when you sleep (probably not before the night of Day3 but haven't seen anyone dig it out of the gamefiles.) having filled other requirements. Also you can only do one vision quest per run I'm moderately sure.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:49
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That is very crappy. Anyone have save files for these? I'm doing an "everything and its opposite" cop run and nothing's triggered so far, I guess I'm not commited enough.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:54
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tripwood posted:That is very crappy. Anyone have save files for these? I'm doing an "everything and its opposite" cop run and nothing's triggered so far, I guess I'm not commited enough. How typically reactionary bourgeois to be looking for the path of least resistance!
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Apr 20, 2021 16:06
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Terra-da-loo! posted:Here's my input on why I think Disco Elysium is so good despite having a fairly basic and cliche narrative (esp. for the protagonist's development) : yeah. it helps if you think with a "voiced" thoughts and have ADHD or whatever because i feel like harry alot at times because i will just be looking at poo poo and then a long meandering story with flow through my brain about the history of said poo poo or something. and how you can just get overwhelmed by different ideas and thoughts and stuff. like most great stories from anywhere are cliche or simple on some level. its how stuff is told and such is what makes it good. like fury road is basicaly "there and back again" but it has so much other things going on both said and unsaid that it works way more then that. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 17:02
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Any story is cliched if you describe it in terms so broad that it's basically meaningless.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:18
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AceOfFlames posted:That is definitely one of the scariest concepts to me. I do know a few people who are EXTRAORDINARILY unreflective and seemingly unable to be alone. I can't help but wonder if they have this lack of inner voice. What even counts as an "inner voice"? Is it the same voice you can hear when reading/writing? Like, I can use that voice to think, but I don't usually, I only really do it when I'm figuring out in advance what I want to say to someone so I can hear how it sounds. If I'm just thinking, it doesn't really seem necessary to vocalize it internally? Does it still count as an "inner voice" when it drops most of the voiced qualities? Because how voice-like the voice is seems pretty easy to change, from "actual subvocalization" all the way until it's just sort of a "nebulous string of unvoiced word concepts still arranged into something like a sentence". I guess my experience lines up with the article that says most people only use it about 20% of the time, though, that's probably about accurate for me.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:21
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sean10mm posted:Any story is cliched if you describe it in terms so broad that it's basically meaningless. oh i know. that's what i meant. GlyphGryph posted:What even counts as an "inner voice"? Is it the same voice you can hear when reading/writing? Like, I can use that voice to think, but I don't usually, I only really do it when I'm figuring out in advance what I want to say to someone so I can hear how it sounds. If I'm just thinking, it doesn't really seem necessary to vocalize it internally? Does it still count as an "inner voice" when it drops most of the voiced qualities? Because how voice-like the voice is seems pretty easy to change, from "actual subvocalization" all the way until it's just sort of a "nebulous string of unvoiced word concepts still arranged into something like a sentence". idk. i kinda talk to myself and get lost in thoughts and such.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:25
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For people who internally vocalize everything, how do you actually keep up? Do you end up just staring off into the middle distance in the middle of conversations like Harry does as you wait for your thoughts to finish saying their piece.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:32
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GlyphGryph posted:For people who internally vocalize everything, how do you actually keep up? I don't know if anyone vocalizes everything. In conversations in particular I guess I instinctively think "faster" and less verbally. It's when I am by myself that my thoughts are more vocalized, which is why not having a voice in those circumstances frightens me. The silence would be terrifying. Those people I mentioned, besides never wanting to be alone are absolutely horrified by silence and demand that there always be a conversation or TV background noise going, hence my hypothesis.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:59
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AceOfFlames posted:I don't know if anyone vocalizes everything. In conversations in particular I guess I instinctively think "faster" and less verbally. It's when I am by myself that my thoughts are more vocalized, which is why not having a voice in those circumstances frightens me. The silence would be terrifying. Those people I mentioned, besides never wanting to be alone are absolutely horrified by silence and demand that there always be a conversation or TV background noise going, hence my hypothesis. people who lack various internal conscious experiences can still do things anyone else can do. I know someone with no internal imagery at all, even their dreams are an assortment of other sensory stimulus. She can paint from memory though. People without internal monologue can still write, order their thoughts by other means, and tolerate quiet. The people you're describing just have regular old self-hatred. e; like, the stated purpose of excessive drinking in a lot of people with PTSD, anxiety and depression is to make the monologue stop calling you a piece of poo poo. I spent my twenties blasting holes in my brain and my fondest memories of the time are the bits when I didn't have any stream of consciousness, just random shapes and noises and colours. Spangly A fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 18:07
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AceOfFlames posted:I don't know if anyone vocalizes everything. In conversations in particular I guess I instinctively think "faster" and less verbally. It's when I am by myself that my thoughts are more vocalized, which is why not having a voice in those circumstances frightens me. The silence would be terrifying. Those people I mentioned, besides never wanting to be alone are absolutely horrified by silence and demand that there always be a conversation or TV background noise going, hence my hypothesis. Yeah, I don't really do it when I'm around/talking to other people but honestly I think it helps me organize my thoughts. Sort of like with Kim and his notebook, everyone has their specific method. That said, sometimes it's just nice to have that mental silence too. It's calming.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:29
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rappers playing video games isn't really anything at all anymore, but Danny Brown (currently) streaming Disco Elysium has me reeling.
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Apr 20, 2021 19:50
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I read here or somewhere about lifelong deaf people describing thought processes as conceptual if not literal imagery of sign language, which was fascinating.
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Apr 20, 2021 19:57
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sur le web posted:rappers playing video games isn't really anything at all anymore, but Danny Brown (currently) streaming Disco Elysium has me reeling. holy poo poo this is incredible
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Apr 20, 2021 20:41
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Only rapper I have ever seen play video games was Snoop Dogg when he and a bunch of other celebs were inexplicably invited to play Battlefield 1 at E3. He was stoned off his rear end and kept running into a wall. And even then he seemed more sober than Zac Efron and Jamie Foxx who acted like they didn’t even know where they were. Terry Crews was the only person who looked like he wanted to be there. It was a loving weird show.
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Apr 20, 2021 20:58
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It's a shame you can't react to having keys thrown at your eye any way other than shouting at the ravers and being an authoritarian arsehole about it. My sorry cop wants to be sorry that his eye got in the way of the keys.
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Apr 20, 2021 23:18
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AceOfFlames posted:Only rapper I have ever seen play video games was Snoop Dogg when he and a bunch of other celebs were inexplicably invited to play Battlefield 1 at E3. He was stoned off his rear end and kept running into a wall. This is the kind of cringe I’m going to miss and crave from a digital E3
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Apr 20, 2021 23:38
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sur le web posted:rappers playing video games isn't really anything at all anymore, but Danny Brown (currently) streaming Disco Elysium has me reeling.
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Apr 20, 2021 23:44
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mary had a little clam posted:Had a thought last night. I'm finishing up a 4th playthrough and some scenes are just a moving and powerful to me as the first time I saw them. The game just emotionally resonates very well. It works because it's not a cliché that appeared ex nihilo. It works because many, if not most people are broken, feel broken. So, they can relate, feel like Harry is about them (especially since most people will default to building a Harry that's kind of like them). One previous poster, a million pages back said the story didn't resonate with him, and he felt like the game hinges on a big either/or : either you know what that's like and the game sucks you in harder than a desperate pornstar ; or you simply cannot empathize and the reveal feels like disappointing, trite, maudlin bullshit. That feels correct to me. I don't think it's a 20 year old thing though. Harry's voices carry a world-weariness, a resignation that even the edgiest of kids just cannot emulate no matter how hard they try. The writers of DE know what it feels like to *give up*. And yet, they also know that's not the end, and what can happen after you give up.
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Apr 21, 2021 02:30
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Kobal2 posted:It works because it's not a cliché that appeared ex nihilo. It works because many, if not most people are broken, feel broken. So, they can relate, feel like Harry is about them (especially since most people will default to building a Harry that's kind of like them). One previous poster, a million pages back said the story didn't resonate with him, and he felt like the game hinges on a big either/or : either you know what that's like and the game sucks you in harder than a desperate pornstar ; or you simply cannot empathize and the reveal feels like disappointing, trite, maudlin bullshit. That feels correct to me. Giving up is the start of the next phase of your life.
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Apr 21, 2021 03:08
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mary had a little clam posted:How do you think Disco Elysium manages to avoid that tediousness? Someone already mentioned the worldbuilding, and I think the other characters who aren't Harry also play a big part in that. It doesn't feel like a self-centered ego-gratification trip to make Harry's problems in particular, or "white dude problems" in general, feel the most important because the other people Harry interacts with feel really fleshed out. Their different backgrounds, their different perspectives, and their own problems matter too. Harry's our viewpoint character, but even when the city of Revachol itself makes him sound like some kind of chosen one, he's still not the centre of the universe.
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Apr 21, 2021 04:05
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Bifauxnen posted:Harry's our viewpoint character, but he's still not the centre of the universe. yeah, kim especially plays a pretty important part in this imo having him go 'jesus christ you're a detective, please be professional and worry about your personal business on your own time' whenever harry gets too narcissistic or self-pitying does a lot to ground things
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Apr 21, 2021 04:32
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hughesta posted:Omg I need to see this if nothing else the entire measurehead interaction is hilarious https://twitch.tv/videos/993361644?t=4007s
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Apr 21, 2021 04:35
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:if nothing else the entire measurehead interaction is hilarious Holy poo poo thank you
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Apr 21, 2021 05:32
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Is there any reactivity to not wiping off the bathroom mirror? Other than your avatar staying a silhouette, which is funny all on its own.
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Apr 21, 2021 07:57
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I just finished a playthrough where I never looked at myself in the mirror, other than the character portrait the only thing I noticed that was different was if you try to shave you can't because you don't even know what your face looks like
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Apr 21, 2021 08:46
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Kobal2 posted:It works because it's not a cliché that appeared ex nihilo. It works because many, if not most people are broken, feel broken. So, they can relate, feel like Harry is about them (especially since most people will default to building a Harry that's kind of like them). One previous poster, a million pages back said the story didn't resonate with him, and he felt like the game hinges on a big either/or : either you know what that's like and the game sucks you in harder than a desperate pornstar ; or you simply cannot empathize and the reveal feels like disappointing, trite, maudlin bullshit. That feels correct to me. The woman is secondary to the need to believe in something. The woman takes up all this space in Harry's head because there is not much else left in the world, only old people and dead people from a time when there was hope. It's not coincidence that the weltgeist-persona and the personal loss are conflated, these are two similar stories being told in parallel. You are supposed to sort of see, or feel, the parallel: Both are about what can never be recovered. I'll freely admit, most things about the personal story didn't make me think 'oh geez, I totally know that feeling'. But DE had largely earned my trust at that point, that when it goes out to explore a feeling, there will be something worth learning there. And so I went with it, because honest engagement with feelings I might not have had, learning about things I definitely didn't experience, is allegedly also a bit of the point of fiction. The final reveal of the insulidan phasmid felt satisfying precisely because it gave not answers but just described the feeling of hoping or believing pretty darn well. Honestly, part of the DE writing charm is that it isn't too clever for its own good. It is cheeky, funny and gives the reader some credit - but, it doesn't really worry about whether things have done before, it doesn't go out of its way to make sure you know when it is being clever. If they'd made sure that the story itself is down to the bone avant-garde, that this poo poo would make Pynchon blush, I don't think it would have made nearly as enjoyable and easily parsable a gameplay experience. Instead it might end up as one of those things that people pretend to enjoy 
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Apr 21, 2021 08:58
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mary had a little clam posted:Had a thought last night. I'm finishing up a 4th playthrough and some scenes are just a moving and powerful to me as the first time I saw them. The game just emotionally resonates very well. I think a lot of it is that this isn't a story about being hosed up and self-destructive, but about Harry trying to unfuck himself and pick up the pieces. It isn't a story about the bender, it's a story about the hangover.
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Apr 21, 2021 09:18
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Bifauxnen posted:Someone already mentioned the worldbuilding, and I think the other characters who aren't Harry also play a big part in that. I think it helps that pretty much nobody is impressed by HDB's bullshit. Pre-blackout, when he's storming around the Whirling-In-Rags putting his own gun in his mouth and joking about shooting himself it's pretty clear that this is a fairly pathetic act of public self pity that only really serves to hurt the people around him. It's the same with the final scene; Vicquemare makes it pretty clear that having your heart broken is a fairly mundane thing and the subsequent doom spiral wasn't especially poignant. The fact that the game remains sympathetic throughout to Harry works because its consistently sympathetic to all it's characters, except for the racists and Sunday Friend.
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Apr 21, 2021 11:33
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mary had a little clam posted:Had a thought last night. I'm finishing up a 4th playthrough and some scenes are just a moving and powerful to me as the first time I saw them. The game just emotionally resonates very well. I think it helps that we, the audience, can very easily understand *that* Harry is loving up and why it is a gently caress up but also why Harry is loving up in that particular way. Basically we get the thesis of what Harry is trying to do, the antithesis of what he actually does, and the synthesis of that is both that we find it funny and pathetic but simultaneously become sympathetic to Harry. We want him to stop being a sack of poo poo and do better, because we can see that he could be and do better. This would go out the window if any of Harry's gently caress-ups were presented as being in any way positive, and indeed plays a huge role in why so many players feel so very bad about themselves (rather than say, the game, or the character of Harry) when they (consciously and deliberately or not) make Harry do terrible things, like being a fascist, racist, misogynist utterly vile piece of human waste, for instance. Because the game constantly keeps letting the player understand that this character *could be* better than this.
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Apr 21, 2021 11:35
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Vagabong posted:I think it helps that pretty much nobody is impressed by HDB's bullshit. That should read RAC.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:05
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A huge problem in the world at large is that being on the (self-defined) "right side" in politics/religion/whatever entitles you to be an unlimited loving rear end in a top hat to everyone around you. DE manages to avoid that trap quite deftly by showing how any ideology Harry adopts will be warped by Harry's broken mental state. Conversely, it shows otherwise "better" people than Harry with political beliefs the writers think are terrible (except fascists I guess because gently caress 'em.)
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Apr 21, 2021 12:45
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