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happyhippy posted:Was it with Floyd's death that the police themselves turned up and clapped for the cop the day after? George Floyd's death was the one the cops had t-shirts made saying "I CAN breathe" to commemorate.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:13 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:13 |
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TulliusCicero posted:What did this girl even do to require being put down like a rampaging bear?
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:13 |
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Can anyone tell me why an active shooter can be brought into custody alive, but a 15 year old girl with a knife can't?
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:18 |
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TulliusCicero posted:It's really interesting to watch them all show their rear end like this, when it would be the easiest thing in the world to just walk away from it and distance themselves from Chauvin. It reminds of how the first like six months after Trump was inaugurated Fox News/etc. bullshit people like this were still mostly doing shows about how horrible Clinton is like they had pre-programmed their entire year based on Clinton winning and had no idea where else to go from there for a while once she lost. I feel like this is the same thing where all of them thought for sure Chauvin was going to walk and they'd be able to issue a simple "see the system works he was on trial and found innocent" and then spend the next month chastising rioters. Instead they have to dump the "these people are destroying civilization" bullshit onto anyone they can.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:20 |
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Couple of Chauvin notes before we return to your regularly scheduled ", this is why the police were justified in their brutal murder of a black teen", a conversation that positively must take place in this, an unrelated thread. https://twitter.com/MaryMoriarty/status/1384835081123123200 (Mary Moriarty has been providing useful insight all trial, former Chief Public Defender in Minneapolis before being ousted for insufficient when discussing our hosed up justice system). Relevant for the conversation regarding the conditions of Chauvin's incarceration and that he is already being treated atypically. As it comes to sentencing, the state is seeking an enhancement based on the following 5 factors (from papers filed last year): quote:
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:34 |
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Police don’t give a poo poo about saving lives and have stood by watching someone die plenty of times. There is a Supreme Court decision that establishes that the police have no obligation to prevent a crime from taking place.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:50 |
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Along the lines of what Paracaidas posted for Blakeley factors, there is a fantastic writeup by a MN criminal defense attorney that explains the sentencing process for this case here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/mv1sli/chauvin_sentencing_and_beyond_answering_your/. Sorry for the reddit link, but it's extremely informative for anyone who's interested and unfamiliar with sentencing and MN specifics (especially regarding Blakeley).
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:51 |
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V. Illych L. posted:also norwegian police have been quite trigger-happy themselves lately. unarmed-as-a-rule has been fully hollowed out for reasons that seem to me to be obscure Because for quite a while the minister of Justice was from the FrP, and they have massive, pulsing, throbbing hard-ons for indulging the worst elements of our police-force that can't wait to be armed 24/7 so they can finally respond appropriately to those people stepping out of line. You know. Just like the US police.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:52 |
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Paracaidas posted:https://twitter.com/MaryMoriarty/status/1384835081123123200 Special inmate placements really aren't that rare. Although going from a jail to a prison is something I've never heard of. I have only ever seen jail to jail transfers.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 13:58 |
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Neo Rasa posted:George Floyd's death was the one the cops had t-shirts made saying "I CAN breathe" to commemorate. erik garner was when those shirts started getting made. floyd was when they brought them back out of the closet
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:19 |
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:erik garner was when those shirts started getting made. floyd was when they brought them back out of the closet I feel like a dumbass for being incorrect about this but at the same time I'm not surprised they'd reuse them. Okay wait now I feel like slightly less of a dumbass: https://www.chicagotribune.com/spor...3ula-story.html
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:23 |
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I have seen this and I am still amazed at how many people just can’t wait for the police to escalate to lethal force. It’s the classic hammer and nail analogy where shooting a person makes sense because they have guns. Is the suggestion that this situation is completely unresolvable without shooting someone to death? At the risk of sounding like an idiot who suggests that cops shoot people in the legs, why can’t several grown men control a girl with a knife? Is it absurd to suggest that they strike her arms with batons or just full-on tackle her? Obviously a knife is dangerous but I need more convincing that swinging one around constitutes threat of imminent death to the officers as well as the other girl. Would an officer without a gun just stand by? A part of it is also the absolutely garbage risk assessment done by the police despite their training convincing them they have a perfectly analytical mind. They’re willing to get into a high-speed car chase without a second thought despite it being the likely cause of their death but an unstable black girl with a weapon is like the angel of death in their eyes. Ror fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Apr 21, 2021 |
# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:29 |
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Ror posted:I have seen this and I am still amazed at how many people just can’t wait for the police to escalate to lethal force. The Killology poo poo pushed by that lunatic Grossman teaches police ANYONE can be the serial killer trying to murder you, and you have to kill them first (and then you will have Great Sex afterwards according to the aptly named Grossman ) Grossman is a loving monster who has done unfathomable harm to this country's law enforcement training. He needs to be shut down today. There was no reason for this girl to die. Taser, baton, tackling, idk, "DROP THE loving KNIFE!" could have been yelled? He tries absolutely nothing.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:34 |
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LLCoolJD posted:Special inmate placements really aren't that rare. Although going from a jail to a prison is something I've never heard of. I have only ever seen jail to jail transfers. Since the right wing outrage machine continues to spool up around Maxine (absolute shocker), it's worth remembering a few things so we avoid stumbling into bothsides dumbassery by mistake-
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:38 |
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TulliusCicero posted:Can anyone tell me why an active shooter can be brought into custody alive, but a 15 year old girl with a knife can't? If the active shooter surrenders immediately on seeing the cops then they'll take him alive, if he/she ignores them completely and carries on trying to murder people in front of them then it's not such a likely thing.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:45 |
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Paracaidas posted:"Burn this city to the loving ground and slaughter every pig who stands in your way if they come back without a guilty verdict" would still fail to demonstrate (among other things) a call to imminent violence. I don't understand how that would not be a (morally justified) call to imminent violence.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:45 |
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TulliusCicero posted:Can anyone tell me why an active shooter can be brought into custody alive, but a 15 year old girl with a knife can't?
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:45 |
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So I'm guessing you guys would be cool if the other girl got stabbed a few times? I'm not sure y'all are grasping the situation on this one.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:53 |
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Ror posted:I have seen this and I am still amazed at how many people just can’t wait for the police to escalate to lethal force. The knife is right next to the intended victims throat it only has to move a few inches. You'd need to cover the gap between you preferably silently get control of the weapon and in America obviously you'd need to put your weapon away securely first or fight one handed with your off hand once you got there. If you go for a full on tackle you'll be pushing her in the direction of the victim blade first with all your bodyweight. If you tried it and the victim died or got hurt you'd be in the deep end of the poop pool.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:53 |
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SocketWrench posted:I doubt that IQ brag is real if this is his opinion on what being a police officer is I just assume anybody that fits their supposed full title into a twitter handle (unless it's an official office account) to be a hardcore right wing chud and/or shitlord troll like Sebastien Gorka DrG in need of some extra tool of persuasion. Any sane and/or normal person probably doesn't feel the need to have that to get more people to agree with them cause their words, phrasing and positions on something can speak for themselves and make some sense to most people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/21/tucker-carlson-chauvin-floyd-guilty-jury/ Or.....they just heard the strong evidence from the prosecutions case, saw the videos, heard the witness testimony and decided it met the grounds for a guilty as charged verdict under Minnesota law. He also acts like the defense obviously wouldn't have used their strikes against people they felt might have been too influenced by all the commentary and high profile nature of the case before it went to trial, just as the prosecution wouldn't have obviously tried to use their strikes against people that might be chuds, hold outlandishly pro-police beliefs or possibly even just be racists. Kale fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Apr 21, 2021 |
# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:54 |
Ror posted:
I honestly think it's weird that Norwegian cops are able to stop armer assailants by shooting them In the legs while American cops are forced to always shoot to kill.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 14:59 |
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Police don’t give a poo poo about saving lives and have stood by watching someone die plenty of times. There is a Supreme Court decision that establishes that the police have no obligation to prevent a crime from taking place. I still remember that video from a few weeks back of police responding to a domestic call and one of them hearing some sort of bang come from inside which could have been just about anything and just immediately opening fire and then continuing to do so as someone screamed to stop shooting and that they'd been shot. Then he literally runs away as his partner is yelling at him to get the gently caress back there and turns off his body cam. That one really stuck with me as to how piss poor the policing can get in America. Like it just blows my mind both that he got all trigger happy over hearing loud noises, completely broke anything resembling what is supposed to be procedure and that he then ran away from his position both abandoning his partner and the person in distress he'd just shot. Like what is that? I seem to recall hearing the guy had been fired for gross incompetence, but maybe that's wishful recollection.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 15:10 |
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FoolyCharged posted:That said, I know nothing of the incident beyond the still, so unless they rolled up to that scene there is still a huge problem here because the cops job is to stop things from getting to the point where someone needs shot Watching the video, they basically did roll up to that scene. There’s less than a minute between the cop getting out of his car and the girl trying to stab someone. There’s still room to criticize the cop (should have used taser, too many shots) and ACAB but this really isn’t a clear-cut situation. Edit: I went back and watched again. There's literally 10 seconds between the cop getting out of his car and the girl trying to stab someone, and most of it involved the girl with the knife assaulting people in front of the cop. That's really not a lot of time for de-escalation. ryde fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Apr 21, 2021 |
# ? Apr 21, 2021 15:13 |
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I don't understand how that would not be a (morally justified) call to imminent violence. Paracaidas posted:"Burn this city to the loving ground and slaughter every pig who stands in your way if they come back without a guilty verdict" would still fail to demonstrate (among other things) a call to imminent violence. If she had made her statement (or my statement) in between the announcement that the verdict was in and the announcement of the verdict itself, there'd be a stronger argument that she's calling for imminent action. But no argument that she was giving grounds for an appeal. It's why the detractors can't have their cake and eat it too with her statements. If they claim it influenced the unsequestered jury, then it couldn't possibly be imminent. If they claim it was a call to imminent violence, it couldn't have possibly have influenced the sequestered (or completed) jury. As is typically the case with such contradictions, there are no attempts made to resolve it so that both are simultaneously true until an inconvenient question is asked. Morningwoodpecker posted:If you tried it and the victim died or got hurt you'd be in the deep end of the poop pool.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 15:16 |
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I would like to say two things: 1. if you have no loving idea what you're talking about, please be mindful of that and receptive to the posting of people who do seem to know what they're talking about. "I don't know anything about this case, but..." is not, generally speaking, a useful contribution to this thread. 2. Starting off your argument with "is being stabbed by a knife really all that dangerous????" is a prime fuckin way to signal you have no idea what you're talking about.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 15:20 |
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Paracaidas posted:Appreciate the confirmation of atypical treatment from your experience! Knowing nothing else about the guy beyond being Chavin's attorney it is his legal duty and obligation to provide the best defense possible. Of course he's appealing. He has to and he can get more money from Chauvin.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 15:22 |
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Knowing nothing else about the guy beyond being Chavin's attorney it is his legal duty and obligation to provide the best defense possible. Of course he's appealing. He has to and he can get more money from Chauvin. There is an idea floating (particularly in RWM circles but also in more sane spaces, including SA) that Maxine's comments mean an appeal is coming (flatly wrong given both Nelson's past statements and his responsibilities) or that her comments meaningfully impact his chances on appeal (an argument rarely made in detail and one that I'm extraordinarily skeptical of). The list is related to that.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 15:49 |
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Honestly the people who are at most fault here are her parents. They were standing right behind Makiah, outside their home, watching her argue with people while holding a knife. They completely and utterly failed that child. The fact that the situation even got to that point speaks volumes to how utterly incompetent they are as parents. The cop had mere seconds from the moment he arrived to when Makiah started charging at people with a knife. American police have never been known for their de-escalation tactics so I'm not sure how much different things would have turned out if he'd gotten there earlier, but this isn't really a case of the police overreacting. To the poster who said "How lethal could a knife really be"? A couple of weeks back there was a video of a group of 12 year olds who got into a scuffle at Walmart. One of the girls had brought a knife with her. She stabbed the girl she was fighting a single time and that's all it took for her to bleed to death before the ambulance could get there. That police officer could have very well saved the woman in pink's life. She was a second or two away from getting stabbed. I'm sad Makiah didn't have better people in her life who could have prevented the situation from getting to the point that it did.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:05 |
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Ror posted:I have seen this and I am still amazed at how many people just can’t wait for the police to escalate to lethal force. You've seen that image. Have you ever tried to fight someone? Have you ever tried to fight someone with a knife? The amount of people who want to criticise the police but then lose all credibility when they then try and suggest how to engage with people in physical confrontations but have zero clue on any form of physical confrontation theory or even practical experience is incredibly frustrating when you have clear cases where the police use massively unnecessary force vs when it is completely justified. Morons then mix up the two and suddenly criticism of police use of force becomes so muddy with idiots thinking that shooting someone in the leg is a good idea or telling them forcefully to stop stabbing the other person that they then get used as examples by the people who lick officers boots and claim nothing they can do is ever wrong and only idiots criticise the police with utterly bizarre ideas. TulliusCicero posted:Can anyone tell me why an active shooter can be brought into custody alive, but a 15 year old girl with a knife can't? Because the active shooter surrenders and stops being an active shooter, the 15 year old girl is mid kill. Why do you need this explaining to you, it is really very obvious. Paracaidas posted:
You do it, lets do an experiment. I'll grab a sharpie pen (instead of an actual knife) and an innocent by stander. You have to use the taser and non lethal force to stop me killing both the person I am in the process of "killing" and stop me from killing you. (covering you in sharpie pen) You going to intercept me with a baton? I'll kill you. You going to talk me down? I'll kill you. Give you a taser? With how unreliable they are? Innocent by stander is probably dead, you might survive if the prongs hit correctly, but even then, you willing to risk that chance? willie_dee fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 21, 2021 |
# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:07 |
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A knife isn't a sharpie and the lust for murder that is on display here is kind of messed up.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:12 |
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Vorik posted:Honestly the people who are at most fault here are her parents. They were standing right behind Makiah, outside their home, watching her argue with people while holding a knife. They completely and utterly failed that child. The fact that the situation even got to that point speaks volumes to how utterly incompetent they are as parents. The cop had mere seconds from the moment he arrived to when Makiah started charging at people with a knife. American police have never been known for their de-escalation tactics so I'm not sure how much different things would have turned out if he'd gotten there earlier, but this isn't really a case of the police overreacting. FYI, I think an important thing to be aware of before criticizing parenting is that this is a foster home. It's unclear how long she had been in this foster home for, how long these people have known her, etc: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/21/columbus-police-shot-killed-teen-girl-what-we-know/7316707002/ quote:Police haven't released the name of the person shot, but Franklin County Children's Services said the girl killed was 16-year-old Ma’Khia Bryant and that she was in foster care and in the custody of Children's Services.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:13 |
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Also plenty of active shooters end up killed by police, so using active shooters as an example of de-escalation is glossing over a lot. There's a lot of situational information that can make de-escalation impossible. In the video of the UK police handling a guy with a machete: there were only police around and they had the guy surrounded and somewhat under controlled. The machete guy was not literally mid-swing trying to kill someone. This is not intended to be an excuse for American police who are, by far, way more brutal than necessary and escalate to lethal force too easily. Especially against black people. Just saying that this instance doesn't appear to be a good example of that. Josef bugman posted:A knife isn't a sharpie and the lust for murder that is on display here is kind of messed up. Actually evaluating the situation isn't lusting for murder. No-one is happy that the cop shot the girl. Its a tragedy.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:17 |
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TulliusCicero posted:The Killology poo poo pushed by that lunatic Grossman teaches police ANYONE can be the serial killer trying to murder you, and you have to kill them first (and then you will have Great Sex afterwards according to the aptly named Grossman ) This. It takes him maybe 5 seconds on the scene to do it. Also even if you believe it’s “justified”, he could of super easily hit the other lady too because he decided to pump 4 shots in. I think it’s a hosed situation and the cop should at the very least be sacked.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:17 |
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Police don’t give a poo poo about saving lives and have stood by watching someone die plenty of times. There is a Supreme Court decision that establishes that the police have no obligation to prevent a crime from taking place. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 21, 2021 |
# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:23 |
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ryde posted:Actually evaluating the situation isn't lusting for murder. No-one is happy that the cop shot the girl. Its a tragedy. The police killed a young adult. I am sorry but the way in which people are going "oh well it was dangerous and she was a danger and etc etc" comes across more as "I lust for death but need it only to be doled out to those that deserve it, which is anyone I perceive as a threat". I know that more than likely it is based on "oh this will cause the least amount of time in the long term" or any number of good reasons why violence must be meted out towards people. It's just that, well, that argument is often ignored when it comes to things that are outside of accepted paradigms.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:24 |
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Josef bugman posted:A knife isn't a sharpie and the lust for murder that is on display here is kind of messed up. You would want to use a real knife in the experiment? Are you mad and do you want to die for the experiment? A sharpie is an excellent way of demonstrating how stupid it is to try and go any where near someone with a knife is. The person without the knife will be covered in pen ink. That pen ink demonstrates how stabbed up you would be. The lust for murder is not here, if anything you just have a lot of people with zero clue on any kind of physical combat training or experiencing trying to comment. One idiot even asked how dangerous a knife could possibly be. The police officer probably saved the other girl in pinks life. Who would you rather see dead, the victim in pink, or the girl trying to murder her? Do you think the girl in pink should be sacrificed because you would rather see her murdered by a 15 year old girl than the 15 year old girl trying to murder people be murdered by a cop, is that your logic? In which case, why is that particular form of lust for murder ok but the police using deadly force to stop murder not ok?
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:25 |
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Kalit posted:FYI, I think an important thing to be aware of before criticizing parenting is that this is a foster home. It's unclear how long she had been in this foster home for, how long these people have known her, etc: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/21/columbus-police-shot-killed-teen-girl-what-we-know/7316707002/ Thanks for this. Just a sad and hosed up situation all around.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:27 |
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willie_dee posted:The police officer probably saved the other girl in pinks life. I'd question whether it'd end up life threatening if it really was a steak knife, given that they are not particularly long or sharp compared to something like a kitchen knife. But I don't think its reasonable to accurately identify the type of knife in 10 seconds in the middle of an active fight. Its hard to understate how difficult it is to come to a complete situational awareness in such a chaotic situation in so short of time. I believe that Columbus police officers wear tasers, based on a quick google. Has it been confirmed that he was wearing one? Josef bugman posted:I know that more than likely it is based on "oh this will cause the least amount of time in the long term" or any number of good reasons why violence must be meted out towards people. It's just that, well, that argument is often ignored when it comes to things that are outside of accepted paradigms. I hate violence but I think that sometimes there's no other choice and its regrettable. Opposing fascists and nazis comes to mind as an easy example. I'd rather they not be fascists and nazis, and that we could talk them out of their lovely beliefs, but I think everyone is fully aware how well that goes. ryde fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Apr 21, 2021 |
# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:31 |
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willie_dee posted:You would want to use a real knife in the experiment? Are you mad and do you want to die for the experiment? I mean the experiment you made up in your own head and that you have not tested might not be the best in terms of giving accurate results, would it? Because unless you have Hanzo steeltm I don't think you are going to be able to harm someone in in the same way that a sharpie would. Yes it is. You are, again, making excuses as to why the police could not help but kill this person because it lead to a greater good. Neither. You only believe that one is possible because you seem convinced that the only way to resolve this situation was through lethal violence. I am unsure that that was the only way to resolve it. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 21, 2021 |
# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:33 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:13 |
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Dapper_Swindler posted:This. It takes him maybe 5 seconds on the scene to do it. Also even if you believe it’s “justified”, he could of super easily hit the other lady too because he decided to pump 4 shots in. I think it’s a hosed situation and the cop should at the very least be sacked. He saved the lady in pinks life. Open offer, anyone thinking this, is welcome to meet up with me and we can set up multiple scenarios where you get to repeatedly try and stop me getting ink all over you with a sharpie without using a gun to stop me.
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# ? Apr 21, 2021 16:33 |