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Mameluke posted:Pretty sure extinction rebellion is just an op designed to make direct action annoying and unpalatable even to activists The PETA gambit
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Apr 23, 2021 01:10
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All of this got me to look at the arctic sea ice forum https://twitter.com/GreatWhiteCon/status/1385238892102758404 Love the charts. This one is pretty nice, where it shows that it's pretty much only a few areas of the ocean that still have any ice left for some parts of the year 
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Apr 23, 2021 01:14
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crazy eyes mustafa posted:as long as people can vote this will never happen you dont need social control you just need to become king and destroy all the refineries and car factories with their owners inside
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Apr 23, 2021 01:31
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Lostconfused posted:There's still hope. isnt the white house still in the dc fortified exclusion zone or was it just congress
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Apr 23, 2021 01:34
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that is just the lamest window breaking I’ve ever seen, XR is a loving joke
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Apr 23, 2021 01:36
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this but it's us in the climate change thread and it's weed at the center there
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Apr 23, 2021 01:49
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Shima Honnou posted:isnt the white house still in the dc fortified exclusion zone or was it just congress Supposedly it happened on the streets to the west of the restricted area. https://www.nps.gov/whho/learn/management/temporary-area-closures.htm 
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Apr 23, 2021 01:49
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The Oldest Man posted:Lollin at the idea that there's going to be ration cards and not just an out of control price rocketship on staples followed by riots and an out of control organized crime surge and the cops shouting king me and taking political control of cities at gunpoint probably more like a combination of the stimulus checks (arbitrary, means-tested, always changing, irregular) and school lunches (bid out to the worst companies at the lowest cost, packed with sawdust and industrial carcinogens) everything else will continue inflating into the sun
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Apr 23, 2021 01:53
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Perry Mason Jar posted:It'll be the new bugaboo (to replace COVID, to replace muslim extremists before that, etc etc) that justifies ever-increasing social control and immiseration, no doubt. Not a surprise at all but it's going to be extremely hosed up fascist poo poo no doubt. the consumption habits of the global north are going to have to change to a more sustainable route. yes the rich do make up a large portion of it but your average suburban homeowner is also consuming more than is sustainable. it's not their fault because of the consequences of the way we planned our communities around the car, but that doesn't change the fact of their unsustainable lifestyle. voluntary action will never get us there because yeah, of course people don't want to give up things they have been accustomed to. but if your argument is that we can't do what is necessary to prevent social harm through regulations because it justifies ever-increasing social control and immiseration, then you are no different than the libertarian who says the government should have no regulatory power period.
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Apr 23, 2021 01:53
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:you're joking but i once irl saw a startup that was doing "blockchain quantum AI". i assume it was intended to scam investors but these days i'm not even sure I don't know about the blockchain part of that plan, but they very well could have been doing quantum AI in the form of quantum annealing. I think it's the only commercial application of quantum computing right now. I think you can get a free minute of quantum computing access with D-Wave lol.
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Apr 23, 2021 02:19
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Lol
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Apr 23, 2021 02:44
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Shipon posted:the consumption habits of the global north are going to have to change to a more sustainable route. yes the rich do make up a large portion of it but your average suburban homeowner is also consuming more than is sustainable. it's not their fault because of the consequences of the way we planned our communities around the car, but that doesn't change the fact of their unsustainable lifestyle. Fascism is not capable of solving any crisis. Why in the world are you agitating for their prescriptions? While they pollute more than most countries with just their war machine. Why do you presume any benevolence? Because you are not Afghani or Iraqi yet?
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Apr 23, 2021 03:12
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Of course we can use regulations to solve a crisis but we can't in the historical context you're posting in. The policies that will be enacted today are the ones that cause circumscription of human rights and dignity and immiseration, not all policies.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:16
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Lostconfused posted:There's still hope. "It contains that which aideth plant growth, and it is exceedingly powerful." Waste of good cowshit, imo. GET SOME PROPER PPE AND WHEN YOU COME BACK PUT YOUR FUKIN BACK INTO IT, drat IT!!! Ugh. XR needs to expand its membership to include manual labour consultants.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:20
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xr has been working around the clock in the hopes of increasing their membership from just being cops and government agents
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Apr 23, 2021 03:24
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Gods_Butthole posted:I don't know about the blockchain part of that plan, but they very well could have been doing quantum AI in the form of quantum annealing. I think it's the only commercial application of quantum computing right now. I think you can get a free minute of quantum computing access with D-Wave lol. oh, no, what i meant is, i'm sure it was bullshit, but i'm not sure whether it was just to get money out of VCs or these were true believers huffing their own farts
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Apr 23, 2021 03:26
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Fascism is not capable of solving any crisis. Why in the world are you agitating for their prescriptions? While they pollute more than most countries with just their war machine. Why do you presume any benevolence? Because you are not Afghani or Iraqi yet? What is your solution to curbing the objectively excessive consumption of developed nations?
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Apr 23, 2021 03:31
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I watched the Bright Green Lies documentary showing. it's p good for essentially an almost 3-people show. i do think in terms of relativity, the bird thing is kinda whatever silly thing to spend a large time on, that is in relativistic terms and the ground is already conceded in that "humans will always want electricity", there's unfortunately no way around that. people are not going to, willingly, accept not having iphones, kindles, tvs, refrigeration, treated water, MRIs, catscans, ventilators, cpaps, heated water, LED light bulbs, big pharmaceducals, electric trams/trains to get around, etc. there will be a point all that is will be lost one way or another in the future, but it's not something people are going are going to say YEAH! to. humans are more alienated than ever before, and in such an alienated-upbringing is short-term status quo complacency and enjoyment of such, and even recognizing that most people will go "eh ill have had a good life or dead before it becomes a problem". gen z is already largely going to be thinking the same thing and they'll be the ones that have to bear the brunt relatively to their life span even if everyone is already affected today, but in relativistic terms most people expect to still be eating 16oz well-done steaks every night, and going out to the mall in their car, or visiting hawaii for at least awhile longer and after that, well, i had it good right? they also try to say that cities are bad because they've consumed all their resources and have to pipe it in. that's true, but also on the same level getting people into denser vertical housing could leave a lot smaller overall land-use footprint than everyone sprawled out in cabins and tract housing, and in terms of energy costs it's a a lot more efficient to distribute over a small consolidated land-mass than over a big area. of course it would be great if somehow 8 billion (or as libs say, 15+ billion people) could be spread out in little grass bungalows living harmonious in sync with their immediate nature never requiring inputs but lol @ that now but anyways i agree with the core thesis that we won't green ourselves out of the problem. consumption has to go to near zero and the population of earth is going to massively go down one way or another. status quo complacency and having entropy devouring the planet is the most palpable option so that's exactly what we're going to do.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:35
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Shipon posted:Your definition of fascism is incorrect. Feel free to correct me. End the wars and end class society. Members of the classless society (as well as the society in transition) can solve the crisis by their own means - which are totally foreign and unknowable by me - without need for my or anyone else's diktats.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:38
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There is no going back now, we've already pulled the trigger
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Apr 23, 2021 03:45
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Xaris posted:I watched the Bright Green Lies documentary showing. it's p good for essentially an almost 3-people show. i do think in terms of relativity, the bird thing is kinda whatever silly thing to spend a large time on, that is in relativistic terms and the ground is already conceded in that "humans will always want electricity", there's unfortunately no way around that. people are not going to, willingly, accept not having iphones, kindles, tvs, refrigeration, treated water, MRIs, catscans, ventilators, cpaps, heated water, LED light bulbs, big pharmaceducals, electric trams/trains to get around, etc. there will be a point all that is will be lost one way or another in the future, but it's not something people are going are going to say YEAH! to. humans are more alienated than ever before, and in such an alienated-upbringing is short-term status quo complacency and enjoyment of such, and even recognizing that most people will go "eh ill have had a good life or dead before it becomes a problem". gen z is already largely going to be thinking the same thing and they'll be the ones that have to bear the brunt relatively to their life span even if everyone is already affected today, but in relativistic terms most people expect to still be eating 16oz well-done steaks every night, and going out to the mall in their car, or visiting hawaii for at least awhile longer and after that, well, i had it good right? the anti-city thing is always going to be hilarious to me lol like you'd have to go back to the dawn of agriculture to "fix" cities
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Apr 23, 2021 03:49
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Feel free to correct me. Why would the classless society non-hierarchically decide to curb people's creature comforts they have become accustomed to yet are not sustainable, when the vast majority of that society won't exactly be happy with doing so? This is the same reason why market incentives won't work to curb consumption either - it's against everyone's short term interests to do so.
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Apr 23, 2021 03:54
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Shipon posted:Your definition of fascism is incorrect. water is a powerful solution my friend we will all be ions in the ever rising sea
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Apr 23, 2021 04:01
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Shipon posted:Why would the classless society non-hierarchically decide to curb people's creature comforts they have become accustomed to yet are not sustainable, when the vast majority of that society won't exactly be happy with doing so? This is the same reason why market incentives won't work to curb consumption either - it's against everyone's short term interests to do so. by what authority does the classless society appropriate the resources to supply these creature comforts?
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Apr 23, 2021 04:07
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Shipon posted:Why would the classless society non-hierarchically decide to curb people's creature comforts they have become accustomed to yet are not sustainable, when the vast majority of that society won't exactly be happy with doing so? This is the same reason why market incentives won't work to curb consumption either - it's against everyone's short term interests to do so. They would be unfettered by propaganda, capital, and want for needs (housing, employment, healthcare, education). To foreclose their own extinction, why wouldn't they? tuyop posted:by what authority does the classless society appropriate the resources to supply these creature comforts?
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Apr 23, 2021 04:13
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optimistic to assume that just because the only high-profile "direct action" group seem incompetent and ineffectual, they must be an op. seems more likely, given what we know so far about people in general, that they're just actually incompetent and ineffectual, and that's the best we're going to get.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:40
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Mola Yam posted:optimistic to assume that just because the only high-profile "direct action" group seem incompetent and ineffectual, they must be an op. really? 
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Apr 23, 2021 04:44
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haha I forgot about that. but honestly kinda yeah. my baseline is always to assume breathtaking Iannucci-like incompetence on all sides. I think actual operatives have to do much less work than we give them credit for.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:49
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let's not forget that the agencies are responsible for countless clown shows and are very likely as incompetent as anyone else remember guiado? lmao
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Apr 23, 2021 05:05
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tuyop posted:by what authority does the classless society appropriate the resources to supply these creature comforts? Simple, someone within it decides to take it. What are you gonna do to stop them?
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Apr 23, 2021 05:14
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Shipon posted:Simple, someone within it decides to take it. What are you gonna do to stop them? “classless” does not mean “unable to use force or violence”. I can’t imagine how such a culture just pops into being without being able to deal with misanthropes and quislings.
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Apr 23, 2021 05:48
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tuyop posted:“classless” does not mean “unable to use force or violence”. I can’t imagine how such a culture just pops into being without being able to deal with misanthropes and quislings. you do not get there without dealing with those people that already exist.
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Apr 23, 2021 05:49
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Mola Yam posted:optimistic to assume that just because the only high-profile "direct action" group seem incompetent and ineffectual, they must be an op. i agree with you here, the internet 'left' is full of dumb dumbs that call everything a grift or op. sometimes it actually is (bellingcat/etc), but most of the time it isn't. Instead and much more nefarious, there's an extent that things can still be an op even if they aren't directly on the payroll of the cia/fbi/nsa/dhs/dod/mi5/mossad/etc to be an op. to that i mean that the entire academia (and to a lesser degree, primary ed) framework and structure has been largely curated and guided by the hand of intelligence and defense agencies/politicans/elite, over the last four/five decades, to turn it into essentially a factory to reproduce very useful neoliberal status-quo protecting idiots on an assembly line. they get to the dirty work of being reactionary and dividing people using alienating and anti-solidarity linguistic signifiers and thought-framework without actually needing to be paid by the deep state, whether they realize it or not. it's pretty smart. Xaris has issued a correction as of 07:21 on Apr 23, 2021 |
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Apr 23, 2021 07:15
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Xaris posted:Instead and much more nefarious, there's an extent that things can still be an op even if they aren't directly on the payroll of the cia/fbi/nsa/dhs/dod/mi5/mossad/etc to be an op. to that i mean that the entire academia (and to a lesser degree, primary ed) framework and structure has been largely curated and guided by the hand of intelligence and defense agencies/politicans/elite, over the last four/five decades, to turn it into essentially a factory to reproduce very useful neoliberal status-quo protecting idiots on an assembly line. 
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Apr 23, 2021 07:29
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Mayor Dave posted:the anti-city thing is always going to be hilarious to me lol like you'd have to go back to the dawn of agriculture to "fix" cities now of course the insane western/american style 'cities' of car culture and such is grotesque abomination but their example in the documentary of Manhattan being bad was a very poor one. they could have pointed to pretty much anything else, phoenix in particular would be a good one showing just an absolutely unstainable sink of energy, but if the goal is to return land to nature and stop consumption and stop energy use entirely, it would make most sense for people to largely live vertically and without car-roads and such.
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Apr 23, 2021 07:55
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Shipon posted:you do not get there without dealing with those people that already exist. People exist right now that would like to be sharecrop slaveowners. So what? They can't. I can aspire to be, say, an American Duke and so what? Feudalism doesn't exist here now, I can't do it. If some guy said well I will be the Force Appropriator what will he do? He won't have capital accumulated, he won't have means to accumulate capital, he won't have a way to incentivize an army, and so on.
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Apr 23, 2021 12:23
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fukkin psyched for the future of green energy can't wait to see what it makes possib- https://twitter.com/rhinosoros/status/1385579358392291330
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Apr 23, 2021 18:58
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Perry Mason Jar posted:People exist right now that would like to be sharecrop slaveowners. So what? They can't. I can aspire to be, say, an American Duke and so what? Feudalism doesn't exist here now, I can't do it. This is the same poo poo the bitcoin people say about how bitcoin means war is impossible because central banks can't print money to go to war with. Completely ignores reality. Also we have prisons where inmates effectively are already slaves. You can start your own private prison corporation and even buy a share of the action!
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Apr 23, 2021 19:05
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Xaris posted:i'm honestly not even sure what that would do or what you would even do if you could "go back". but yeah it's far far far too late to have any sort of "harmonious anaenergetic subsistence" for billions, or 20 billion, or whatever libs claim earth can support, each person just living off the land in their immediate area. even to the dawn of agriculture, humans followed some semblance of darwinian-physics pattern in that they arose "naturally" because they were the most 'energy' efficient for a reason. there's a lot of other reasons as well that feed into that, but it ends up being a big feature whether it was recognized as such or not. and now it's not like we can return 1 billion people in North America alone to some sort of indigenous americas way of life because it's all gone and not coming back, ever. no agriculture=no permanent dwellings to eventually turn into cities
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Apr 23, 2021 19:08
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If you have housing, employment, healthcare, and education guaranteed (free!!) what would cause you to sign up to kill? People are going to kill - or risk being killed (although I think this is less important than the former) - for 'creature comforts'? Right now they kill for freedom, security, not oil, not on purpose anyway. And the rest sign up for access to what is otherwise not guaranteed. You are therefore presuming that the governing bodies of the classless society will lie to the people about their motivations for war, which requires an explanation on your part not mine. Else you are presuming that they will be told the truth but are willing to trade a brown life for a second home or whatever the gently caress. That's deeply cynical and frankly chauvinistic as you post with hundreds of people who very much want to end Western Lifestyle and remediate the climate crisis - but you and I are above the ignorant riff raff? Don't let yourself be deceived. With education and without propaganda the number of credulous rubes will shrink even further. Right now central banks exist and print money for pseudoscience economics. Do you provide crops to your Lord or something? This is not analogous! That's why I was careful to say sharecrop slaveowner... please I am begging you to read theory and purge this toxic idealism from your mind. It will benefit you tremendously, believe me.
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Apr 23, 2021 19:14
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