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Grapplejack posted:Idr if someone posted it in here but finding out that agents will always prioritize doors let me design a two block width "employee hallway" hidden behind a casino floor switchback beside a deadly trap hallway and my minion death rate basically fell to zero You should post pictures, that sounds like a cool design.
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Apr 21, 2021 07:16
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Yea I'd like to see that. I'm always strapped for space early on. What do the Data schemes do?
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Apr 21, 2021 07:38
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twistedmentat posted:Yea I'd like to see that. I'm always strapped for space early on. Basically what you'd expect; an android reads poetry at you and then asks you to teach him about the concept of "comedy"
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Apr 21, 2021 09:42
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Does anyone know if minions carrying bodies radiate the same morale loss aura as the body does on the floor, like in EG1?
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Apr 21, 2021 10:41
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Tehan posted:Does anyone know if minions carrying bodies radiate the same morale loss aura as the body does on the floor, like in EG1? Yes and if they are carrying several bodies at once they ALL cause AoE morale loss.
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Apr 21, 2021 12:40
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twistedmentat posted:Yea I'd like to see that. I'm always strapped for space early on. You need them to fire the doomsday device later - unlike the first game it's not just a "you do this once and that ends the game" deal, you use it a bunch of times throughout the game (and can also fire it any time you want outside of plot required stuff - it does specific things on the world stage depending on your genius) and it requires fuel for each use. For Zalika, the fuel is "Data".
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Apr 21, 2021 21:25
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Grapplejack posted:Idr if someone posted it in here but finding out that agents will always prioritize doors let me design a two block width "employee hallway" hidden behind a casino floor switchback beside a deadly trap hallway and my minion death rate basically fell to zero Adding my vote to post a photo. Actually any time anyone posts a cool layout I would really appreciate seeing a photo example. Like post your best agent killing setups, everyone, please.
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Apr 21, 2021 21:50
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The Cheshire Cat posted:You need them to fire the doomsday device later - unlike the first game it's not just a "you do this once and that ends the game" deal, you use it a bunch of times throughout the game (and can also fire it any time you want outside of plot required stuff - it does specific things on the world stage depending on your genius) and it requires fuel for each use. For Zalika, the fuel is "Data". Oh neat, I didn't realize the fuel was different. For Max you have to complete schemes to collect "Au-tomic particles"
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Apr 21, 2021 22:01
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QuarkJets posted:Basically what you'd expect; an android reads poetry at you and then asks you to teach him about the concept of "comedy" :clap: amazing The Cheshire Cat posted:You need them to fire the doomsday device later - unlike the first game it's not just a "you do this once and that ends the game" deal, you use it a bunch of times throughout the game (and can also fire it any time you want outside of plot required stuff - it does specific things on the world stage depending on your genius) and it requires fuel for each use. For Zalika, the fuel is "Data". Ooh neat. I never got this far with Max, so I didn't see his version, and I'm using Zalika currently. I love the food counters in this, it looks like they have a giant thing of chocolate pudding and a bunch of dim sum.
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Apr 22, 2021 00:58
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I'm getting constant small (large) fires in my lair, but I haven't even seen the Excalibur side mission yet. I'm not sure what's the trigger for this havoc. I'm Max, I'm not far into the main story (A Golden Beginning) and the only henchmen side quests I've done are Fugu 1 and I'm currently on the final Eli sidequest. What did I miss?
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Apr 22, 2021 01:23
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it's possible you don't have enough technicians to keep everything repaired.
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Apr 22, 2021 01:26
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it's possible you don't have enough technicians to keep everything repaired. And here I thought 50 would be enough. Maybe I just got hit with bad timing on the repairs all in a bunch there.
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Apr 22, 2021 01:53
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Fhqwhgads posted:And here I thought 50 would be enough. Maybe I just got hit with bad timing on the repairs all in a bunch there. nah, 50's enough for pretty much any base size. it must be something else then. oh, but if you do the technician quest last and build up your base a bunch beforehand, a bunch of things start wearing out and catching fire at once.
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Apr 22, 2021 02:07
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I beat the game! I played Zalika's campaign. Parts I liked: -Great art direction, love how much style it has -Writing is generally pretty fun and voice acting/direction is generally very strong -Basebuilding is fun, and part of the fun is just thinking up ways to structure my lair to particularly gently caress over agents -Significantly less cartoon racism than the first game Parts I didn't like: -Lowering heat sucks, wish that the deception minion option wasn't 30+ goddamn minutes, and after a point I generally just waited for the lockout to activate and pass -Intel sucks, the drip is too slow usually and the cap of 99 really bottlenecks progress -The endgame is very underwhelming. There's some fun ideas in place, but the big fight feels too slow and the victory lap was basically an idle game -Symmetry sucks to fight, the vocal performance she gives is very wooden, and she reminds me of an Overwatch character in the worst way possible.
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Apr 22, 2021 15:06
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Mikedawson posted:Parts I didn't like: For the heat thing, I generally just see the long minion option as "I just don't want to have to pay attention to this area for a while". Whenever I actually need the heat to do something specific, I either let it go into lockdown if it's close, or use the fast intel option. Agreed about the endgame being a slog - I feel like one of the big issues in the game is the threats to your base never really escalate, so by the endgame you're still dealing with the same investigators + occasional soldier groups and they might be a bit higher level but still not really going to be able to make an impact against a well-designed base. So honestly the game doesn't even really need a victory lap because like the last 75% of the game is the victory lap.
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Apr 22, 2021 18:47
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Captain Oblivious posted:You should post pictures, that sounds like a cool design.  Please note: if the agents don't come through the casino they'll ignore the door to the trap hallway. if they DO come through the casino they won't.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:43
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huh, that's a neat idea. i hadn't considered using casino tiles that way.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:48
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Every time i try to expand the casino the game crashes for me.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:52
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Fhqwhgads posted:And here I thought 50 would be enough. Maybe I just got hit with bad timing on the repairs all in a bunch there. 50 should be enough. I only have 30 and I have 300 minions and 3 floors.
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Apr 23, 2021 02:49
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quote:- Rich Edwards and his design team are finishing up a complete rebalance pass to address pacing concerns some of you have mentioned. This hasn’t been a small change and has touched nearly every system in the game. We’ll give you more information in our patch notes but you should find the pace of the game much improved, with less micromanagement of the World Map required, and less waiting for campaign progression. You can still take your time if that’s your preferred playstyle, but those of you who want swifter campaigns should find we’ve sped up the core areas where you’re currently required to wait.
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Apr 23, 2021 10:36
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Ah, so specialist agents are summoned by Investigators leaving with suspicion? That would explain why I never see them outside super agent/side story stuff. Keen to see what their rebalance is going to look like.
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Apr 23, 2021 10:59
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"- We’ve toned down the consequences of Body Bags but we’ve ramped up the importance of minion salaries. So although you’re still at risk of desertions, it’s now more likely to be a result of training too many higher-level minions or running out of Gold at a bad time, rather than it being because everyone’s cleaning up after the last Agent attack." "Why are you training so many hitmen?" "Because even a 100 health hitman with a rifle will often get nearly solo'd to death by a level 3 investigator who only had 20 health remaining. And guards die faster than an EG1 construction worker." "... Sounds like we should make it harder to train a bunch of hitmen then!" Seriously, they are even phrasing it like they felt the need to punishing people for playing the game wrong with 'too many higher level minions'. Which people only spam the poo poo out of to deal with mission sacrifice spam, the fact low rank guards are easily slaughtered even by basic investigators. And even ignoring missions or combat, we need three quantum physicists per super computer so spam is mandatory, even when their training already stalls like crazy as it is without ramped up chance for desertion from training.
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Apr 23, 2021 11:55
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If they've fixed the pistol only bug / issue it's less of a big deal I think, since your guards will be able to actually fight again
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Apr 23, 2021 13:59
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Grapplejack posted:If they've fixed the pistol only bug / issue it's less of a big deal I think, since your guards will be able to actually fight again I just think it is always so strange seeing many games seem determined to take a stance of "Now we know something is underperforming, and we are going to fix it... But to be fair we're going to have to make something worse too!" If the point is to make staring at the world map and clicking cash missions less cumbersome, why emphasize the increased importance of the #1 reason you are doing that when you are not buying new rooms or furniture or doing anything interesting with all that money? Regardless of the fact paying for 300 minions is nothing compared to paying the dirt digging bills once you run out of default dirt.
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Apr 23, 2021 14:04
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Tenebrais posted:Ah, so specialist agents are summoned by Investigators leaving with suspicion? That would explain why I never see them outside super agent/side story stuff. I had a rogue show up exactly once outside of super agents or story events, and I have no idea what I did to make it happen. I am assuming the way it works is that investigators don't just build up generic suspicion but actually do keep track of the things they've observed, and observing certain things will cause them to summon in the special agent types if they escape the island with that suspicion (like say, generators for saboteurs or gold storage/loot for rogues), but it's so easy to just prevent investigators from ever getting to any of that stuff that nobody ever sees the specialist agents.
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Apr 23, 2021 18:33
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right now investigators aren't doing much of anything, but that doesn't seem to be the intent.
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Apr 23, 2021 18:39
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They're a good source of Intel and free workers.
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Apr 23, 2021 19:43
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One thing i really dislike about this game is how the final fate of SAs is handled. In EG1, each demise not only has a functionally custom animation and effect, but also fits thematically. For reference it went like this: Mariana Mamba - Main weakness : 100% reliant on beauty to operate. Defeated by: made ugly by a biologist. Jet Chan - Main weakness: hubris. Defeated by: defeated in a "fair" fight due to spiked food/drink. Katerina Frostonova - Main weakness: buried emotional trauma. Defeated by: execution of the one thing she had an emotional attachment to. Dirk Masters - Main weakness: illegal steroids. Defeated by: special chemical to cause steroids to go haywire. John Steele - Main weakness: None. Defeated by: Your superplan succeeding. So for each agent they have a clear weakness and are defeated by exploiting it. Except for Steele, he's just THAT super, so he dies by you winning the game. EG2 doesn't even have ANY animations, with the agent just turning into a corpse bag with an unidentified cause of death. But worse than that, the agents are generally defeated nonsensically. The Blue Saint - He's best paralleled to Jet Chan. His defeat comes from the fact that he must follow the luchador code and presumably THAT outlines that a pindown is loss. Also presumably getting mobbed does not count as a fair fight for this. But you kill him by... putting him on knockout gas. I get where they are going with this, but since superagents are presumably defeated by shattering their will to fight, it doesn't seem like some gas would cause Blue Saint to properly admit defeat unless he is terminally stupid. Which doesn't seem too likely since he has a chemistry background. Symmetry - Has a ying-yang and "balance" theme. Defeated by...putting her on a slippery floor. What? "Oh wow i slipped, now i can no longer continue". What the hell? Yeah, she sure goes "And i never even lost my footing" but that execution makes no sense whatsoever. Especially since one of her flavor blurbs mentions that she could endure torture really well. Atomic Olga - One of 2 agents that make sense, defeated by using a magnet trap to remove the theta radiation empowering her, removing the source of her special powers. Parallels well with Mariana in that regard. Agent X - Was originally a journalist and according to flavor one of his first missions as agent X almost revealed some PATRIOT corruption. Apparently lost a dancing contest at some point and therefore dies to...being made to dance in a laser disco? The very same one he can be caught in normally and suffer no ill effects? Really, his whole story seems like you could defeat him by exposing PATRIOT as a corrupt shithole not worth protecting, but the actual defeat method is very out of left field and does not resonate with his themes at all. Were the devs like, afraid to smear USA? Wrecking Bola - Just likes wrecking poo poo of bad guys. Defeated by a robotic dog....because she likes dogs? The weakest super agent in terms of her story (nonexistent) and the defeat method is relevantly unsatisfying. One would expect some danganronpa poo poo, where you make her choose between saving a dog or herself, she manages both, except the dog is literally a bomb. That would make at least SOME sense, but is probably out of scope for the engine. Ms. Foxworth - The other agent defeated logically and satisfyingly - first you nuke her training grounds, then you kill all remaining Steeles. Presumably she could recover in a few years, except that's beyond the scope of the campaign. That's a 2/5 and the misses are really oof.
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Apr 23, 2021 20:08
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The Blue Saint one is especially weird because like, there's a whole setup earlier in his arc about how a luchador losing his mask is the greatest dishonour he could possibly suffer and then that's.... not what you do to him.
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Apr 23, 2021 21:53
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it's odd that steele sr. gets a custom trap to kill him but none of the regular super agents do. you just do some stuff on the world map, fight them off a couple of times, capture them and then stick their face into a normal rear end trap. that's it for every single super agent.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:01
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I've been trying to figure out efficient builds for Island 1. Note this is before teir 3-4 science.   My first floor is power, security/prison, vault, research, and localized sleep/eat/heal amenities for those specialists. I also use two staircases and one hallway to force any standard entry to have to go through security from either the casino or the helipad. The second floor is all regular minion activities. Large barracks, large mess hall, massive radio room, large training room, the central medical station, and the minion buffs/brains rec room. Second floor is pretty useless right now, not enough space to put anything in there with either what's minable and what's leftover from the stairwell. The Basement I haven't figured out what to do with, there's space to do something but I don't know yet. For now it houses the mastermind room and table. So, my thoughts so far: 1) I'd like to have a minion "staging area" on the second floor near the stairs to make the helipad calls a bit quicker, because right now they're running a gauntlet up and down. However, I don't quite yet know how to "attract" minions to a location to idle around where I want them to idle around. 2) I have figured out that hallway tiles are good ways to keep minions from idling around in open spaces. 3) I can probably shrink the security area and put the security mess hall closer to the security barracks, and take that unused space to make a little switchback hallway for investigators to hit some traps, but most of the time I just have the immediate rooms outside the casino as "distract" areas, so traps might be useless/undesirable. 4) I'll probably remove the far west stairwell that goes through the vault, it's a bit of a minion choke-point for pathing. It was kinda an early stage upstairs mining point, and I toyed with the idea that I could surround Symmetry from two sides, but I think at this point a one-direction overwhelm of guards from next door should suffice. The middle stairwell hits all 4 accessible floors at its construction position. 5) I'm not really worried about Agent X's random spawn locations, so I don't feel the need to have security at every level (unless this lack-of-need drastically changes in late game). 6) I'd like to find a better spot for the mastermind room and table, but right the EG and Henchmen are there to mitigate losses, not so much save the base. Any thoughts of yours? I'd actually ask how people set up their long-task stations with the restore/drain buff decorations around the science machines, radio repeaters, and casino games, since those tend to have inopportune minion turnover time. Bootcha fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Apr 25, 2021 |
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Apr 25, 2021 16:38
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I think I accidentally triggered the end game, all the side missions disappeared. Which is kind of frustrating because I wanted to knock some more out just to do em and I have no desire to grind back up to a place to be comfortable again.
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Apr 25, 2021 16:46
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Bootcha posted:Any thoughts of yours? If I remember right, that area where you have the First floor big armory, incinerator, and TV are roughly around the only 'dirt digging' access you have to the basement of the first island. Eyeball roughly where you would be able to make a basement access compare to your current and future plans just in case I guess. That said, I can't remember if you are asked to peek into the basement for plot reasons or if you can put it off until you have stone digging techs. As for decorations. It seems like only +recovery for the mess hall and barracks does anything at all. All the -drain is broken, and people trying to get around awkward stuff like how the Archives has no smarts related decorations by surrounding it with another room type doesn't help the +recovery of the Re-Education chair either. But because mess hall items serve multiple minions even the small change probably adds up. Something like every 4 seconds +1 stat, instead of every 5 seconds for +1 stat. Not that you want more than the minimum amount of re-education chairs to cover braindead minions anyways, because they are so terrible they actually make your overall minion care slower to have a bunch of them when they refill their smarts as slow as a mess hall, then turn around and go to a mess hall anyways. (TV is cool, I dunno if deco works with it but it is reasonably fast by default). Along those lines, radio repeaters (and big screens) drain worker stats like crazy, as much as an intel computer, whenever a worker decides to use them for seemingly cosmetic reasons. Which isn't a problem in a lot of base layouts, but since I had the labs and and scientist snack zone built net to the control room, it was always clogged until I switched to more mess hall items and less re-education chairs instead of a bunch of re-education chairs. Section Z fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 25, 2021 |
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Apr 25, 2021 17:02
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if you are going to use big screens at all, make a second control room for it somewhere out of the way.
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Apr 25, 2021 18:03
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Elendil004 posted:I think I accidentally triggered the end game, all the side missions disappeared. Which is kind of frustrating because I wanted to knock some more out just to do em and I have no desire to grind back up to a place to be comfortable again. Yeah I ended up doing this as well, triggered end-game while I was in the middle of the second last side mission to deal with the last super agent, meaning once I finished it I had no option to do the final one and get rid of them before the finale. The placement of the end-game cutoff is kind of weird because you can sort of tell that you are approaching it but the actual specific objective that gets you past that line is not one you can easily stall on, it's a bunch of stuff you will probably be doing a lot of just playing normally.
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Apr 25, 2021 21:26
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Yeah the blue saint ending is probably the worst one. You know what to do! You have loving martial artist minions!!!!!!! Demask him you lazy dickheads!
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Apr 26, 2021 01:12
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Section Z posted:As for decorations. It seems like only +recovery for the mess hall and barracks does anything at all. All the -drain is broken, and people trying to get around awkward stuff like how the Archives has no smarts related decorations by surrounding it with another room type doesn't help the +recovery of the Re-Education chair either. But because mess hall items serve multiple minions even the small change probably adds up. Something like every 4 seconds +1 stat, instead of every 5 seconds for +1 stat. So the air conditioner and water fountain and things that effect morale, smarts, and vitality are bugged/broken and not working, if I'm reading you right? So stuff like the Reel Tape Machine and other deco whatnot for the radio repeaters and big screens are also bugged/broken and do not work? That makes things simpler in the sense of layouts, as in prioritize beds and snack zones over squeezing in those deco's that ultimately do not work.
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Apr 26, 2021 01:46
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Bootcha posted:So the air conditioner and water fountain and things that effect morale, smarts, and vitality are bugged/broken and not working, if I'm reading you right? So stuff like the Reel Tape Machine and other deco whatnot for the radio repeaters and big screens are also bugged/broken and do not work? That makes things simpler in the sense of layouts, as in prioritize beds and snack zones over squeezing in those deco's that ultimately do not work. If ANY -drain aid item works anywhere, then it is so minor that lots of people trying to test it on the internet can't tell. Even when it isn't doing odd stuff like swapping the -drain trait on the brain hologram in the infirmary to +recovery in the labs you would really want -drain aid to work in. Also going back to sandbox mode to double check, and all of a sudden it feels like the +Recovery items I was so sure at least made SOME difference at least in the barracks and mess hall... are not anymore? It was such a small difference when I thought it was helping anyways, but I also hadn't stared at deco items since before the last patch so it feels like a coin flip of "It never did anything at all" or "They somehow broke the only deco items that did anything" 
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Apr 26, 2021 03:09
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I had no idea the decorations actually did something as the cost nothing.
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Apr 26, 2021 03:28
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Really digging this game. Also love the callbacks. They manage to hit the sweet spot between straight remake and sequel, and threw a bunch of references to the old game with a solid mix of old and new. I guess there a patch due this week with a lot of balance and pacing tweaks? That rules. I usually don't buy games with season passes but splurged a bit since I loved EG1, and that looks to be a good decision.
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