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The United States posted:It's very Gundam for a bit but it soon has aliens and extrasolar travel which are very rare for Gundam Yeah that's not untrue but it's more of a feel thing. It's got this feeling of how a lot of basic concepts in every gundam show would get translated in a more american/western sci-fi tradition. At least that's what I think. Everything kind of sucks more in the Expanse which I like.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:06
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I mean the railguns and tech used in most of The Expanse are 200 years ahead of what we've got now. Calamity War tech is way past that and even the stuff in PD era is durable as hell. And yet centuries in the future Scotiabank still works in Edmonton...
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Apr 23, 2021 22:30
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I want a fantasy Gundam because it's been a while since there's been anything Dunbine-esque and because it means they're more likely to do another series with big chunky melee weapons and projectile weapons instead of beam spam.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:31
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There's no rule that says projectile weapons have to be well animated and satisfying and beam weapons have to be poorly animated and unsatisfying. Hell, the beam weapon on display in IBO itself was incredibly chunky and terrifying, and you've got other examples like the Beam Magnum's unforgettable firing noise and the giant chonky holes it would blow in things, or the ZZ firing the Hi Mega Cannon and dudes simply nearby its firing path having parts of their MS superheat and explode. Beam weapons are cool! Don't blame the sins of lovely time-saving choreography like the 00 movie or SEED stock footage on beams, blame them on lovely choreography.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:37
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Beams were cool and nasty in The Origin. They were big destroyer gun batteries though so of course they'd be nasty.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:39
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Jst make more IBO you cowards.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:46
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sassassin posted:Jst make more IBO you cowards. You can't be truly certain Mikazuki is done killing until the heat death of the universe. Even then, skepticism is fair.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:56
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Shinjobi posted:You can't be truly certain Mikazuki is done killing until the heat death of the universe. Sounds like the perfect time to introduce the Alaya-Vijnana Type M
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Apr 23, 2021 22:59
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Make an anime about the sidestory ibo with the mafia boss girl
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Apr 23, 2021 23:41
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Arcsquad12 posted:I mean the railguns and tech used in most of The Expanse are 200 years ahead of what we've got now. Calamity War tech is way past that and even the stuff in PD era is durable as hell. No kidding. If the numbers I had were right, the impact force for a single Dainsleif is similar to a nuclear explosion hitting a single point. We see ships take multiple Dainsleif without collapsing, and in some cases, the rounds don't even make it all the way through the front armor. Hardly a surprise that equipment like that can last for centuries.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:43
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Shinjobi posted:You can't be truly certain Mikazuki is done killing until the heat death of the universe.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:26
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Origin definitely had some of the best beams in the business because ships could actually take big hits rather than exploding from the slightest tickle like they do in almost everything else. The Gundam packing a beam rifle barely matters when Zakus just blow up ships with a dozen bullets.
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Apr 24, 2021 00:58
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I mean they're durable until a Zaku with an anti-ship rifle firing implosion rounds followed by multiple hyper bazooka shots cripples them in a matter of seconds.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Apr 24, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2021 01:11
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They still get hurt but compared to their showing in other UC shows, Origin's botes are tanks.
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Apr 24, 2021 02:47
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You'd think with minovsky microfusion the power output on a battleship would be enough to pop some beam shielding or an I-Field. Guess all that R&D money got gobbled up by Anaheim contracts and they put all the funding into a mobile armor that looks like a Kangaroo.
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Apr 24, 2021 03:06
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Don't worry, in about 50 years after the one year war, they'll figure out how to use I-fields to make fake pirate ship sails. That's progress, baby.
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Apr 24, 2021 03:10
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And then they'll turn ships into Medieval motorcycles and become unstoppable.
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Apr 24, 2021 03:14
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Arcsquad12 posted:You'd think with minovsky microfusion the power output on a battleship would be enough to pop some beam shielding or an I-Field. Guess all that R&D money got gobbled up by Anaheim contracts and they put all the funding into a mobile armor that looks like a Kangaroo. Beam shields weren't developed until decades later, and I-Fields primarily defend against beams. It's a lot of expense for something of limited utility... at first. They eventually start shielding battleships, but it takes a while for designs built with decent defenses to proliferate. Until then, a ship tends to rely on its MS screen for defenses.
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Apr 24, 2021 03:20
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It doesn't come across very well a lot cuz it's just a plot convenience but most ships are at such long ranges from each other and with such minovsky particle interference they're basically blind firing at the general direction of each other.
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Apr 24, 2021 03:25
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muike posted:It doesn't come across very well a lot cuz it's just a plot convenience but most ships are at such long ranges from each other and with such minovsky particle interference they're basically blind firing at the general direction of each other. On a certain level the whole purpose of warships in UC Gundam became to ferry around Mobile Suits and shoot Mega Particle beams in a general direction. This is the reason why the Salamis Kai was used for nearly a century.
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Apr 24, 2021 03:47
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Yeah exactly! that's the kind of thing that we as Gundam nerds understand as a given and it facilitates a lot of the story but it doesn't really seem to communicate well in the actual productions. Just like how mobile suits seem to be a lot closer to each other than the really are, as we know from things like Zeta talking about visual data or whatever for new mobile suits. When the story is told well and compellingly as it usually is in Gundam, it doesn't really come up, but I feel like a lot of UC productions just kind of expect people to already know that when I think it could be really interesting and investing to show that more concretely. Not a complaint or whatever, but it's one of those things that I think even some of my favorite shows just took for granted because they either weren't worried about it or would let the audience fill in the gaps.
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Apr 24, 2021 03:55
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I'm watching Origin 6 and I'm kind of at a loss at how Dozle managed to get the drop on Revil's fleet to the point where they were literally doing point blank broadsides without the Feds firing back. I think the implication is supposed to be that the Zeon Mobile Suit forces were sewing confusion in the feddie line of battle but the way its edited makes it seem like Char snipes the Forrestal, then Dozle hits the fleet head on, and only then does the rest of the MS force catch up and hit the fleet. So Dozle lures out Tianem's vanguard fleet, then makes a show of fleeing before hiding in the minovsky field. Tianem sends out a recon force but they're already out of position while Dozle outflanks them to hit Revil's force. But even Revil's fleet could see Dozle coming with their own eyes and they didn't even start shooting back until Revil had already raked the Ananke at point blank range. Did nobody think to start shooting? Was this an editing flub where the Zakus should have been distracting the fleet first? Am I missing something? I like the battle with the guncannons on the moon since it emphasizes Feddie arrogance against Zeon, but the Federation Fleet acts like complete morons where they don't even fire back. I know Loum was a one sided slaughter but there's a difference between arrogance and being made into total fools for the sake of narrative convenience. Side note: are some of the dates changed between The Origin and the original show material? Origin pegs the battle of Loum at January 23rd while other sources I've seen say it took place between the 14th to the 16th. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Apr 24, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2021 06:32
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chiasaur11 posted:A Gjallarhorn Arianrhod fleet modified EB-06 Graze, meanwhile, is equipped with a custom Dainsleif launcher. According to calculations for the last episode of Iron Blooded Orphans and estimates on frame metal alloy mass, these lovely little war crimes chuck around 15 ton projectiles at mach 335. Given the numbers those calculations rely on the assumption that the Dainsleifs hit ground from orbit in one second mach 335 means going about 111kms per second and low orbit is generally taken to be roughly 100 kilometers up, which is pretty clearly not the case when (a) Mika and Akihiro come to a standstill after the Gjallarhorn troops retreat a bit, with Akihiro wondering why as he stands there for a few seconds; which is presumably when the Graze's aim at them and (b) Mika has enough time afterwards to look up after realizing something is approaching. You could probably cut those numbers by a notable fraction or even an order of magnitude (if editing is just cutting things together for maxium drama and not including travel time at all), because it probably took several seconds for them to hit rather than a second or less. They'd still be really impressive hitting at mach 33 (1/10 or an order of magnitude; so 10 seconds to hit), mach 167 (1/2 or 2 seconds to hit) or whatever, but they're probably not mach 335 going by the way the scene is setup. Arcsquad12 posted:I mean the railguns and tech used in most of The Expanse are 200 years ahead of what we've got now. Calamity War tech is way past that and even the stuff in PD era is durable as hell. I believe it's mentioned in supplementary material that Ahab reactors are physically indestructible. muike posted:Yeah exactly! that's the kind of thing that we as Gundam nerds understand as a given and it facilitates a lot of the story but it doesn't really seem to communicate well in the actual productions. Just like how mobile suits seem to be a lot closer to each other than the really are, as we know from things like Zeta talking about visual data or whatever for new mobile suits. Mobile suits aren't just close to each other a lot of the time, they're practically on top of each other and hitting each other with melee weapons. It's kind of hard to interpret that in any other fashion than them being close to each other. One of the central tenets of combat in UC since the first show is that the artificial clumping of Minovsky particles to disrupt sensor technology means that mobile suits have to be within close range during combat to have a chance of hitting each other, since being at distance and relying on technology to aim is almost futile. Most AUs have some kind of Minovsky particle analogue or other reason why combat has to be within close range, and Wing's AC setting is maybe the only setting to not include any reason that I recall why this is the case. tsob fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Apr 24, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2021 13:18
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Ok, I just finished Gundam Wing, it was my first series. What should I watch next?
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Apr 24, 2021 16:17
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swampcow posted:Ok, I just finished Gundam Wing, it was my first series. What should I watch next? What parts did you like, what did you dislike? There's a lot of gundam to go around, this will help narrow down recommendations.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:20
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g gundam.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:20
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You could go the Toonami route and follow up watching Wing by watching 0079 and losing interest for a decade. Iron Blooded Orphans is overall strong. The original Build Fighters is cute. Thunderbolt and War in the Pocket are grim and tragic. Reconquista in G is... something.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:31
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Arcsquad12 posted:What parts did you like, what did you dislike? There's a lot of gundam to go around, this will help narrow down recommendations. I like spess politics and character progression
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Apr 24, 2021 17:25
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swampcow posted:I like spess politics and character progression IBO
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Apr 24, 2021 18:24
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So this year is the 10th anniversary of Gundam AGE. Christ what a waste.
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Apr 24, 2021 19:03
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tsob posted:Given the numbers those calculations rely on the assumption that the Dainsleifs hit ground from orbit in one second mach 335 means going about 111kms per second and low orbit is generally taken to be roughly 100 kilometers up, which is pretty clearly not the case when (a) Mika and Akihiro come to a standstill after the Gjallarhorn troops retreat a bit, with Akihiro wondering why as he stands there for a few seconds; which is presumably when the Graze's aim at them and (b) Mika has enough time afterwards to look up after realizing something is approaching. You could probably cut those numbers by a notable fraction or even an order of magnitude (if editing is just cutting things together for maxium drama and not including travel time at all), because it probably took several seconds for them to hit rather than a second or less. They'd still be really impressive hitting at mach 33 (1/10 or an order of magnitude; so 10 seconds to hit), mach 167 (1/2 or 2 seconds to hit) or whatever, but they're probably not mach 335 going by the way the scene is setup. The calculations I looked at actually assumed four seconds, not one, based on assuming the show's gap between firing and impact was accurate. ( The difference was that it assumed a slightly higher orbit, somewhere between the ISS and the Hubble, since Rustal's fleet wasn't built for atmospheric entry.).
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Apr 24, 2021 19:15
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chiasaur11 posted:The calculations I looked at actually assumed four seconds, not one, based on assuming the show's gap between firing and impact was accurate. ( The difference was that it assumed a slightly higher orbit, somewhere between the ISS and the Hubble, since Rustal's fleet wasn't built for atmospheric entry.). There is no significant atmosphere or gravity at the Karman line (i.e. 100 kms up) though, so they wouldn't need to be equipped for atmospheric entry to operate there. Gravity at the Karman line would be about 96% of the standard gravity on Earth, for reference; and the line itself is an almost arbitrary demarcation between Earth's atmosphere and space for what are essentially administrative reasons. There would be some atmosphere there, but like gravity, it'd be negligible. So as long as the units can output a little thrust to stabilize themselves occasionally they really shouldn't have an issue being there. It seems more likely the Grazes would be as close as reasonably possible in that instance, rather than several times that distance, since the closer they are, the more accurate they can be and the faster their shots would hit, regardless of what the actual speed of them is. Satellites and other low Earth orbit objects need to be several hundred miles out because that'll minimize problems with orbits (fuel, corrections etc) since they have to be in operation for decades, but the Grazes would only be there a few hours at most (and probably a lot less), so that isn't really an issue for them. Plus, there must have been some atmosphere around, because when the Graze's fire, there's a puff of something behind the Dainslief launchers. Whether that's propellant, or smoke or whatever; it probably wouldn't be nearly as noticeable in a vacuum as it would be in some slight bit of atmosphere. They may have even been closer than the Kaman line, since that's just an internationally accepted boundary. The US military uses it's own measures though, for instance, and defines the boundary between Earth's atmosphere and space as 50 km from what I recall. It's a Japanese show, so they'd probably go with the Karman line, but the Graze's may have been a bit closer because there still wouldn't be significant atmosphere or gravity another 10 or 20 kms in or anything.
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Apr 24, 2021 19:48
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Mars’s atmosphere is also probably weird, since we don’t know how terraforming works.
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Apr 24, 2021 20:33
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tsob posted:Plus, there must have been some atmosphere around, because when the Graze's fire, there's a puff of something behind the Dainslief launchers. Whether that's propellant, or smoke or whatever; it probably wouldn't be nearly as noticeable in a vacuum as it would be in some slight bit of atmosphere. They may have even been closer than the Kaman line, since that's just an internationally accepted boundary. The US military uses it's own measures though, for instance, and defines the boundary between Earth's atmosphere and space as 50 km from what I recall. It's a Japanese show, so they'd probably go with the Karman line, but the Graze's may have been a bit closer because there still wouldn't be significant atmosphere or gravity another 10 or 20 kms in or anything. We actually see the same puff when the Dainsleif team fires in deep space in the battle between McGillis's fleet and Arianrhod, so we know that the atmosphere isn't a relevant factor. Again, it's all estimates and guesswork, but even the most low end reasonable figures suggest it'd be much more powerful than an Expanse round as a baseline, and worse to deal with considering the unique properties of a Dainsleif projectile. (We also see huge dust storms from the impact, but without knowing exactly how far the farm is from the main base, it's hard to figure out the scale of the damage. )
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Apr 24, 2021 20:38
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I don't know squat about The Expanse, but yeah, it's almost certainly far more powerful than anything in that going off what was said. It's probably just not quite that powerful.wdarkk posted:Mars’s atmosphere is also probably weird, since we don’t know how terraforming works. Yeah, Mars is almost exactly half the size of Earth and so would normally be assumed to have a thinner atmosphere, lower gravity etc. even if it retained a normal atmosphere at the moment. Which would normally lead to a lower Karman line equivalent. The show has a terraformed Mars that obviously has a new magnetic field, but I don't recall anything in the show indicating the atmosphere or gravity are notably different than Earth, so it' easier to just presume that it's like Earth and go with that. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Apr 24, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2021 20:43
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Does Orga make a single good decision since Biscuit dies? Trekking on through Season 2 and everyone is pointing out how Orga just keeps digging and not thinking, and then using the Mikazuki sledgehammer to get results that put them even deeper into poo poo. I'm not complaining, it just seems like Season 2's thesis is "Orga is gonna get everyone killed."
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Apr 24, 2021 21:50
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Arcsquad12 posted:Does Orga make a single good decision since Biscuit dies? Trekking on through Season 2 and everyone is pointing out how Orga just keeps digging and not thinking, and then using the Mikazuki sledgehammer to get results that put them even deeper into poo poo. I'm not complaining, it just seems like Season 2's thesis is "Orga is gonna get everyone killed." Yeah, a big theme is that Biscuit was the breaks on the train and the voice of reason against Mika's yes-man and Orga's ambition.
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Apr 24, 2021 21:55
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Arcsquad12 posted:Does Orga make a single good decision since Biscuit dies? Trekking on through Season 2 and everyone is pointing out how Orga just keeps digging and not thinking, and then using the Mikazuki sledgehammer to get results that put them even deeper into poo poo. I'm not complaining, it just seems like Season 2's thesis is "Orga is gonna get everyone killed." He gave Shino and Akihiro the all-clear to rescue the Turbines from Iok's forces. He also let Takaki quit after going to Earth to salvage the war with no name incident. Orga made a lot of bad-to-terrible calls, but he wasn't batting 0.
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Apr 24, 2021 22:23
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Omnicrom posted:So this year is the 10th anniversary of Gundam AGE. Bare minimum it gave us my dad the super pilot space pirate
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Apr 25, 2021 01:49
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G Gundam finished, that was an incredibly fun watch. The dub was great too. Gonna watch a couple of non-Gundams, but then I'll be back to watch IBO finally.
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Apr 25, 2021 17:34
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