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the DLC and games as service defenders did not send their best, apparently.
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Apr 26, 2021 11:45
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Smash Ultimate DLC is good and I want more Same with MarioKart
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Apr 26, 2021 16:47
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The Bloop posted:Smash Ultimate DLC is good and I want more Fighting games nailed DLC that works for them really quickly, it just took some time for people to realize it. Of course, that happened because they were already pulling that stuff. What are all those versions of Street Fighter II, after all, if not character packs and balance patches?
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Apr 26, 2021 16:59
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packetmantis posted:Railing against content roadmaps is one of the weirder grudges I've seen from gamers. Its selling people a game on the promise that one day it will be good and have lots of interesting content. A promise which the developers are apparently under no obligation to keep once they have your money, as off the top of my head I actually cant think of any games which delivered their "content roadmap" on anything approaching their original timescale, and many dont deliver it at all. I'm trying to think of any analagous situations where a company can sell a consumer something, then just... choose not deliver part of it.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:01
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SiKboy posted:Its selling people a game on the promise that one day it will be good and have lots of interesting content. A promise which the developers are apparently under no obligation to keep once they have your money, as off the top of my head I actually cant think of any games which delivered their "content roadmap" on anything approaching their original timescale, and many dont deliver it at all. I'm trying to think of any analagous situations where a company can sell a consumer something, then just... choose not deliver part of it. A good number of kickstarters Most customized implementation oriented sales, where the salesperson has no incentive to not lie and promise the moon.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:10
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SiKboy posted:Its selling people a game on the promise that one day it will be good and have lots of interesting content. A promise which the developers are apparently under no obligation to keep once they have your money, as off the top of my head I actually cant think of any games which delivered their "content roadmap" on anything approaching their original timescale, and many dont deliver it at all. I'm trying to think of any analagous situations where a company can sell a consumer something, then just... choose not deliver part of it. I'm not sure I would ascribe active intent to deceive to most roadmaps. It's more an issue of lovely planning/marketing. Some features which sound good on paper ultimately don't make for good gameplay, or there just aren't enough people buying the game to pay for future content. It reminds me of the first big wave of Kickstarters, where a lot of late stretch goals either didn't make it into games or ended up being half-baked and not fitting in.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:14
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SiKboy posted:Its selling people a game on the promise that one day it will be good and have lots of interesting content. A promise which the developers are apparently under no obligation to keep once they have your money, as off the top of my head I actually cant think of any games which delivered their "content roadmap" on anything approaching their original timescale, and many dont deliver it at all. I'm trying to think of any analagous situations where a company can sell a consumer something, then just... choose not deliver part of it. "We gotta save the game" style roadmaps are extremely raincheck in concept.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:38
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Fruits of the sea posted:I'm not sure I would ascribe active intent to deceive to most roadmaps. It's more an issue of lovely planning/marketing. Some features which sound good on paper ultimately don't make for good gameplay, or there just aren't enough people buying the game to pay for future content. It reminds me of the first big wave of Kickstarters, where a lot of late stretch goals either didn't make it into games or ended up being half-baked and not fitting in. Also just a matter of capitalist economics. If a game isn't selling as well as they expected and the company figures it could more money by re-assigning those devs elswhere, it will happily cancel future plans and roadmapped content. See Anthem or Avengers.
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Apr 26, 2021 19:07
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The whole roadmap thing is just inherent to games as a service. They can't make content as fast as you can play it, so it's just a way of showing that they've got more stuff planned once you finish the current stuff. Whether the game launches with enough content or adds it at a quick enough pace or fails and gets shut down are separate issues. That said I'm not really a fan of games a service in general, they quickly end up feeling more like a work than fun. See also: battle passes.
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Apr 26, 2021 20:49
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The Moon Monster posted:The whole roadmap thing is just inherent to games as a service. They can't make content as fast as you can play it, so it's just a way of showing that they've got more stuff planned once you finish the current stuff. Whether the game launches with enough content or adds it at a quick enough pace or fails and gets shut down are separate issues. See also: "season" "passes" Just let me pay the $60 and you keep the "official" servers up for a few years or something, cripes. I don't want to buy access to new maps or whatever.
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Apr 26, 2021 23:33
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Back in the 1990s brand new PC games were around $40-60 CDN each. They still are. Part of that is covered by being able to sell tons more copies, so even if the profit per unit is less you make it up on volume. But on the other hand games are massively more expensive to make now, a handful of guys making games in their garage is not the norm these days. They do save some money not having thick paper manuals, maps and bonus materials -- even if you still buy your games in boxes at stores, those boxes are empty except for a slip of paper and a CD. Having DLC can help keep game prices low. It can also help prices on older games drop faster, you don't have to wait 5 years to find a game in the bargain bin for 1/2 price. Usually once a game has a few bits of DLC the base game starts going on sale for peanuts. Crusader Kings II eventually went free to play, and it's a complete and enjoyable game, but if you enjoy it you'll probably buy the DLC that enhances the parts of the game you like.
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Apr 26, 2021 23:55
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GaaS with a battlepass and gacha rolls for maximum profitability.
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Apr 26, 2021 23:57
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E: I'm dumb lol
Volmarias has a new favorite as of 00:04 on Apr 27, 2021 |
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Apr 26, 2021 23:59
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Some DLC would have been a full-priced sequel in the old days. If the original X-com dropped today, then Terror from the Deep would have been DLC rather than a sequel.
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Apr 27, 2021 00:00
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Facebook Aunt posted:Back in the 1990s brand new PC games were around $40-60 CDN each. They still are. Part of that is covered by being able to sell tons more copies, so even if the profit per unit is less you make it up on volume. But on the other hand games are massively more expensive to make now, a handful of guys making games in their garage is not the norm these days. They do save some money not having thick paper manuals, maps and bonus materials -- even if you still buy your games in boxes at stores, those boxes are empty except for a slip of paper and a CD. I hate this argument invented by game companies, because in 1995 the whole worldwide industry was like $30B, and these days the US market alone is like $65B. There’s a gently caress ton of growth in the sector, and if games were $70 or $80 or $90 with no dlc people wouldn’t complain near as much as they do now. Systems cost more, they also sell more.
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Apr 27, 2021 00:36
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Facebook Aunt posted:Some DLC would have been a full-priced sequel in the old days. If the original X-com dropped today, then Terror from the Deep would have been DLC rather than a sequel. I mean WOTC was just that
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Apr 27, 2021 00:48
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Captain Monkey posted:I hate this argument invented by game companies, because in 1995 the whole worldwide industry was like $30B, and these days the US market alone is like $65B. Also the games that are most egregious with the monetization (other than mobile games or Chinese/Korean MMOs, but I'm not really familiar enough with those to talk about them) are the ones from AAA studios with billion-dollar publishers. They're not adding 20 extra monetisation schemes because they "need" to to make the game, except inasmuch as they "need" to maximize profit at any cost. The monetisation expands to fill whatever space is available to it, and then they scale up or down development budgets based on the monetisation. RPATDO_LAMD has a new favorite as of 01:08 on Apr 27, 2021 |
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Apr 27, 2021 01:03
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RagnarokAngel posted:This isn't *always* true. Frequently what's going on is due to the complexities of game development you will have specific teams (whether it be the music team, art team, programmers) who are "done" and sitting on their hands while the game is being finished, so extra content is developed to keep them busy/employed. I was going to bring up on-disc DLC, beceause that's definitely a case where the realities of there being a gap between "game's done" and "game's on shelves, ready to be played" are the main cause. (And it still manages to feel really sketchy.) But I'm far less charitable towards pre-order DLC because it directly involves the marketing department and ink being put to paper w/r/t poo poo like Gamestop exclusive pre-order crap. It's less that extra content was made and more that it's is explicitly weaponized to try and convince people they need to buy the game before it's even out yet. And there's zero consistency or standards so pre-order incentives range from "pointless sparkly gear that you level out of five seconds into the game" to the very common "exclusive mission!!" seen in a lot of Ubisoft games that tends to be pretty crap and then all the way to entire game modes. The first I couldn't care less about, the second is frustrating because the FOMO is being used to cloak the low quality of the content, and the last is unambiguously work being carved out of the final product to rope in suckers. Cleretic posted:Fighting games nailed DLC that works for them really quickly, it just took some time for people to realize it. Eh, at best they've settled into a tolerable C-grade "series of season passes" model and then everything is either a bit better than that (Smash, mostly through quality and quantity of the content) or vastly worse in some way (SFV up to a point, Netherrealm's confusing mix of stuff that is or isn't included in XYZ package). Though admittedly I'm a completionist type who wants the actual full game, so fighting games particularly drive me insane. Never needed to send Capcom a check for $10 to unlock Vega's P2 colors in Street Fighter II Champion Edition.
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Apr 27, 2021 03:00
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https://twitter.com/topherflorence/status/1386717509806604292 I guess it's been long enough that we forgot Kenneth Lamar Noid and his, um, misadventure. In many case, I lust for smart car death. Yeehaw!
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Apr 27, 2021 07:04
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Facebook Aunt posted:Back in the 1990s brand new PC games were around $40-60 CDN each. They still are. Part of that is covered by being able to sell tons more copies, so even if the profit per unit is less you make it up on volume. But on the other hand games are massively more expensive to make now, a handful of guys making games in their garage is not the norm these days. They do save some money not having thick paper manuals, maps and bonus materials -- even if you still buy your games in boxes at stores, those boxes are empty except for a slip of paper and a CD. To make it a fair comparison, you should compare the shiniest release version to the old ones. Also, consider that retail margins for the publisher & dev used to be shiiiiiit. The devs would get tuppence ha’penny for their efforts and make money on sheer bulk then, too. Nowadays EA, who don’t even have to pay a percentage to steam if the sale’s via Origin are likely taking more now.
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Apr 27, 2021 12:16
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EA started selling their stuff on Steam again though, presumably because noone wants to put up with their lovely launcher just so they can get some more money to buy out and ruin another studio. For a good example of proper content roadmaps you can look at Deep Rock Galactic. They kept an updated roadmap throughout Early Access, and are keeping it up post-release for free updates, alongside optional paid cosmetic DLC (in Steam store, not in any ingame store).
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Apr 27, 2021 12:38
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Fishstick posted:EA started selling their stuff on Steam again though, presumably because noone wants to put up with their lovely launcher just so they can get some more money to buy out and ruin another studio. I mean how is this any different from any other road map other than you like the game?
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Apr 27, 2021 13:02
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RagnarokAngel posted:I mean how is this any different from any other road map other than you like the game? If they're keeping it updated and specific, then that beats most content roadmaps I've seen. Which are often hopelessly vague (I remember Cyberpunk 2077's post-release 'roadmap' was basically just 'patches until mid-2021, DLC then' with exactly that much detail) and/or get publicized updates so infrequently that questions get raised on if information's even valid anymore (basically the only problem left standing with Street Fighter V's DLC).
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Apr 27, 2021 13:21
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RagnarokAngel posted:I mean how is this any different from any other road map other than you like the game? In the most basic sense yes they're both "roadmaps". But I'm assuming the "content road maps" that people have bad tastes with are things like Ubisoft's model where they release an Assassins Creed game for $60 - $80 alongside a $20+ Season pass and a full roadmap of paid DLCs that are already in development at release but you can already buy, and stuff the game itself with microtransactions. I mentioned DRG because I touch a lot of Early Access stoves and there's not a lot of developers that have this kind of quality / transparant roadmaps . In DRG's case specifically they call it a "living road map" that's been ongoing since very early access that simply outlines development priorities for the next content updates and is updated every few months (eg: pre-release roadmap from 2019 and one of the more recent post-release roadmap updates). Fishstick has a new favorite as of 13:34 on Apr 27, 2021 |
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Apr 27, 2021 13:31
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Also there's a difference - maybe not always a huge difference, but a difference - between a scrappy indie dev offering transparency into their development goals vs. a mismanaged triple-A developer/publisher trying to spin future developments as a marketing-first thing.
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Apr 27, 2021 13:36
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RagnarokAngel posted:I mean how is this any different from any other road map other than you like the game? I should clarify I don't have problems with people having opinions. Mostly with trying to spin one's opinions as some universal truth about the degeneration of the games industry since the 90s while it's been degenerate capitalism since the 70s. There's relatively cheap and fun options at every level from early access indies to monlithic triple A with an extra year of expansion packs. value-brand cereal posted:https://twitter.com/topherflorence/status/1386717509806604292
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Apr 27, 2021 14:28
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zedprime posted:Whoever wins we all win because I loving love brands hell yeah. Wait, no. Whoever wins, we lose. Sounds like someone failed to avoid the Noid
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Apr 27, 2021 14:39
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RagnarokAngel posted:I mean how is this any different from any other road map other than you like the game? Realistically, it was mostly up to external cirumstances.The game made a lot of money and devs/marketing department were pretty realistic about the goals, so they were achievable. Also they had a small-time publisher Coffee Stain, that only put out a couple indie games a year, so there wasn't a ton of pressure from the top. As a side note, the same publisher also put out Valheim. Which also has a roadmap, although everything has been delayed due to the early access release being more successful than expected and a ton of bugs appearing. The folks at Coffee Stain must be pretty happy these days.
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Apr 27, 2021 15:26
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Fishstick posted:In the most basic sense yes they're both "roadmaps". Worse than that, even. I played Origins recently and enjoyed it enough that I was curious to check out the season pass, which was $15 on the in-game store. I'd only paid $20 for the main game in a bundle with Odyssey and Valhalla so I was okay with another $15 for DLC. Except when I clicked, it navigated to the PlayStation store where it was listed as $40. I emailed Ubisoft to point out that maybe they should change the listed price in the game instead of baiting and switching people, and they just kept repeating that they couldn't control the PS store price. Two weeks later in the spring sale, the gold version of the game went on sale for $20, with the season pass included (the season pass by itself was, and still is, $40).
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Apr 27, 2021 18:19
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silence_kit posted:
I'm curious about which things that rich people like that you feel are unfairly maligned on these very forums.
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Apr 27, 2021 23:02
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Finally someone stood up for Yacht ownership.
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Apr 27, 2021 23:12
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From local newspaper dumb marketing: https://twitter.com/sfchronicle/status/1387053187262128129
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Apr 27, 2021 23:13
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Betteridge's law of headlines strikes again
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Apr 27, 2021 23:37
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I don’t understand, why do they need the NFT at all
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Apr 27, 2021 23:39
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t understand, why do they need the NFT at all
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Apr 27, 2021 23:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t understand, why do they need the NFT at all the nft is the current stupid object of hype by selling an nft instead of just posting "please give us your money", they attract more rubes and more income
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Apr 27, 2021 23:44
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A Pack of Kobolds posted:
Rich people like breathing and many people on these forums think that rich people breathing is in fact very very bad
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Apr 27, 2021 23:45
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The Bloop posted:Rich people like breathing and many people on these forums think that rich people breathing is in fact very very bad That doesn't answer my question at all; everybody knows the value of guillotines.
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Apr 27, 2021 23:49
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A Pack of Kobolds posted:I'm curious about which things that rich people like that you feel are unfairly maligned on these very forums. I'm just pointing out that many goons flatluigi posted:have a problem with the concept of spending money on something that doesn't have any worth to them to the point where they think the ability to spend that money at all should go away and can be very judgmental about how people spend their money. silence_kit has a new favorite as of 23:59 on Apr 27, 2021 |
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Apr 27, 2021 23:56
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I mean your not really pointing out anything. Your saying something realit vague and I don’t understand your point
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Apr 27, 2021 23:59
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