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Karia posted:Shares... of the future. GREAT SCOTT!
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Apr 28, 2021 09:51
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notwithoutmyanus posted:If tether literally leverages existing interest bearing sites, they could be compounding far above 20-60% annually on tether. Especially if they are diversifying, if you look at things like curve and yield.fi where hundreds of millions sit, they could be contributors of those pools. why bother when you can just add a 0 in a database
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Apr 28, 2021 11:57
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notwithoutmyanus posted:If tether literally leverages existing interest bearing sites, they could be compounding far above 20-60% annually on tether. Especially if they are diversifying, if you look at things like curve and yield.fi where hundreds of millions sit, they could be contributors of those pools. Need to add a zero behind that. Its gone up 10x in market cap in 1 year.
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Apr 28, 2021 14:39
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spunkshui posted:Need to add a zero behind that. you fool, that's because the world's extremely financially savvy billionaires are queueing up round the block to invest their money with Bitfinex, the company that gave all its customers a 36% haircut after being hacked for all their bitscoin
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Apr 28, 2021 15:11
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Andy Dufresne posted:No, scroll up. Most of it is dollars owed to tether by crypto-adjacent companies they loaned tether to. Company ABC gets a billion tether issued to them and in return they give Tether a sticky note that says "We owe you a billion dollars". Why would ABC ever do this? The official line is "Tether is used by crypto investors who want to avoid the extreme volatility of other cryptocurrencies while keeping value within the crypto market." So company ABC just put a billion dollar liability on their books for what exactly? There's no expected return since crypto is aligned to the USD.
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Apr 28, 2021 15:42
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spankmeister posted:Banks charge negative interest for anything over like 100k. No they don't, what are you talking about edit: InternetJunky posted:Sorry, I know I'm being dense but the whole thing makes even less sense to me now. ABC does this because ABC is generally an exchange that has banking problems and needs a USD lookalike to provide liquidity where there would otherwise be none. Taking a loan in USDT comes at no cost (and actually has potential benefits, since they can then use their USDT pile to buy cryptos off their customers) since the billion dollar liability they put on their books is offset by a "billion dollars" in assets that are the USDTs they just took. From an accounting perspective, taking that loan of USDT has no impact on income (at the time of initial loan, at least). Blotto_Otter fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 28, 2021 |
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Apr 28, 2021 15:44
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Blotto_Otter posted:ABC does this because ABC is generally an exchange that has banking problems and needs a USD lookalike to provide liquidity where there would otherwise be none. Taking a loan in USDT comes at no cost (and actually has potential benefits, since they can then use their USDT pile to buy cryptos off their customers) since the billion dollar liability they put on their books is offset by a "billion dollars" in assets that are the USDTs they just took. From an accounting perspective, taking that loan of USDT has no impact on income (at the time of initial loan, at least). Ok, so I think the picture is a little clearer for me, but who are the people exchanging bitcoins for tether with ABC? When I look up info on tether I find the following statement: "Tethers cannot be exchanged for U.S. dollars." So if I have a bitcoin, why would I exchange it for tether? Just to make it easier to buy other cryptocurrencies? The whole thing just feels so off. Like it's such an obvious scam I must not be understanding it correctly.
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Apr 28, 2021 16:03
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InternetJunky posted:The whole thing just feels so off. Like it's such an obvious scam I must not be understanding it correctly. Gosh, has it been five minutes already?
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Apr 28, 2021 16:18
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InternetJunky posted:
No, the quote is roughly, “It can’t be that stupid; you must be explaining it wrong!”
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Apr 28, 2021 16:19
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InternetJunky posted:Ok, so I think the picture is a little clearer for me, but who are the people exchanging bitcoins for tether with ABC? When I look up info on tether I find the following statement: "Tethers cannot be exchanged for U.S. dollars." So if I have a bitcoin, why would I exchange it for tether? Just to make it easier to buy other cryptocurrencies? It's like one of those weird multi-store gift cards, but for stores you've never heard of. Anyone sane just sends cash, but for some reason this almost-cash is used in it's place because real money has real rules. Tether is denominated in dollars, but can only be spent on a few shady exchanges. It gives a reasonably stable way to transfer value between bitponzi.cocks, 40xmooncoin.org and bitfinex, mostly to obfuscate organized crime. The fact that they're printing off Tethers faster than Wiemar Germany printed Deutschmarks is what's giving you that wierd tingly feeling, while still shouting that it's backed with USD!
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Apr 28, 2021 16:22
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InternetJunky posted:Ok, so I think the picture is a little clearer for me, but who are the people exchanging bitcoins for tether with ABC? When I look up info on tether I find the following statement: "Tethers cannot be exchanged for U.S. dollars." So if I have a bitcoin, why would I exchange it for tether? Just to make it easier to buy other cryptocurrencies? edit: To flesh this out a little further - the reason those exchanges can't get USD bank accounts is because they don't comply with American anti-money laundering (AML) and know-your-customer (KYC) regulations that are necessary to keep those banking relationships. USDT is useful to people who want to believe they're conducting trades using USD, but don't want to bother with such pesky annoyances like banking laws and regulations. To their credit, Tether Ltd. helps the scheme keep going by buying up some USDT as neccessary using USD on the handful of exchanges that had USD banking and also accepted USDT (Kraken was the big one up until now, Coinbase will be the most visible one once they begin USDT trading).They smartly took a page out of the Ponzi scheme playbook and realize that you need to pay out to some customers to help build confidence in your scheme. InternetJunky posted:The whole thing just feels so off. Like it's such an obvious scam I must not be understanding it correctly. Blotto_Otter fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Apr 28, 2021 |
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Apr 28, 2021 16:26
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Gosh, has it been five minutes already? Sorry if I'm making GBS threads up the thread with these questions, but this is literally the only place on the internet I've found where I can actually get real answers without running into the true believers. My sister has recently gone off the deep end into crypto and I need to arm myself for the arguments that will soon follow as she gambles her entire family's life savings away. If I've learned anything from reading about this on the internet it's that the moment you can't answer one of their questions or you give a wrong answer your entire point is invalidated.
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Apr 28, 2021 16:50
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Like I said: everyone will be able to cash out all of their crypto gains for Tether so I don’t see why this is a problem. They will have plenty of tether to go around and if there isn’t enough they’ll just print more. I hear they’re doing that already. Edit: just to be clear I’m being sarcastic and everyone is hosed if enough people want the cash these coins are “worth.” spunkshui fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 28, 2021 |
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Apr 28, 2021 16:56
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InternetJunky posted:Sorry if I'm making GBS threads up the thread with these questions, but this is literally the only place on the internet I've found where I can actually get real answers without running into the true believers. My sister has recently gone off the deep end into crypto and I need to arm myself for the arguments that will soon follow as she gambles her entire family's life savings away. If I've learned anything from reading about this on the internet it's that the moment you can't answer one of their questions or you give a wrong answer your entire point is invalidated. Between arguing with cryptocurrency zealots for years and now antivaxxers for the last half-year, it's been my experience that it doesn't matter how well-researched you are and how thoughtfully you engage with someone on a topic if they are engaging with that topic in bad faith. If someone's decided that this is the way they're going to get rich quick, you making Good Counterargument #38 isn't going to matter if the first 37 arguments didn't matter. Rational arguments don't matter when someone is making an irrational decision based on greed and emotion. (What you can try to do is stop her from persuading others around you to follow her down the same dumb path.) For what it's worth, this page's discussion on Tether has covered fundamental problems that should scare any rational trader or investor away from USDT (and any markets heavily impacted by USDT), and yet the USDT scam continues on anyway. On this page we haven't even gotten to how the New York state AG has proven that Tether willfully lied about their reserve holdings in the past, or how USDTs are obviously an unregistered illegal securities offering and the SEC could drop the hammer if they cared (they don't care). That stuff is important for you to know, but it won't matter for convincing someone that this is a scam if they haven't been convinced already that it's a scam by the simple observation that sane investors just would not hand over $50b of actual cash in exchange for extremely-dodgy IOUs that provide no additional utility other than evading money laundering laws and regulations.
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Apr 28, 2021 17:23
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Blotto_Otter posted:Extremely-dodgy IOUs that provide no additional utility other than evading money laundering laws and regulations. That's the entire point of tether though?
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Apr 28, 2021 17:49
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:That's the entire point of tether though? Yes, and if that fact alone is not enough to get someone to realize Tether is a bad idea that should be avoided, then what’s the point of arguing with them about reserves and audits and securities laws and complicated poo poo like that?
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Apr 28, 2021 18:18
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:That's the entire point of tether though? Naa, you can print it and then buy bitcoin to force/keep the price up to prevent people from panic selling.
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Apr 28, 2021 18:19
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spunkshui posted:Naa, you can print it and then buy bitcoin to force/keep the price up to prevent people from panic selling. how many butts deep are we now?
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Apr 28, 2021 20:33
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InternetJunky posted:Sorry if I'm making GBS threads up the thread with these questions, but this is literally the only place on the internet I've found where I can actually get real answers without running into the true believers. My sister has recently gone off the deep end into crypto and I need to arm myself for the arguments that will soon follow as she gambles her entire family's life savings away. If I've learned anything from reading about this on the internet it's that the moment you can't answer one of their questions or you give a wrong answer your entire point is invalidated. Lol, it's all good, it's just that what you said is a running joke, almost verbatim, because so many come into the thread going "that can't be right, I must not be understanding it / explaining it wrong".
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Apr 28, 2021 20:37
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It's funny how people "cash out" their cryptocurrencies. Like, cryptocurrencies are supposed to be cash, lol. You don't "cash out" your euros Ofc they call them 'crypto' because these stupid things are actually not currencies and are instead ~something else~ which means Ponzi nonsense.
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Apr 28, 2021 20:39
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Blotto_Otter posted:Between arguing with cryptocurrency zealots for years and now antivaxxers for the last half-year, it's been my experience that it doesn't matter how well-researched you are and how thoughtfully you engage with someone on a topic if they are engaging with that topic in bad faith. If someone's decided that this is the way they're going to get rich quick, you making Good Counterargument #38 isn't going to matter if the first 37 arguments didn't matter. Rational arguments don't matter when someone is making an irrational decision based on greed and emotion. (What you can try to do is stop her from persuading others around you to follow her down the same dumb path.) Yeah, the old adage is "you can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themself into."
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Apr 28, 2021 20:46
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Stanley Pain posted:how many butts deep are we now? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/ Click market cap.
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Apr 28, 2021 21:00
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$50bn? man the feds/trustees are gonna have a hell of a time trying to clawback all that money when the thing implodes
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Apr 28, 2021 21:10
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jokes posted:$50bn? man the feds/trustees are gonna have a hell of a time trying to clawback all that money when the thing implodes
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Apr 28, 2021 21:16
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jokes posted:It's funny how people "cash out" their cryptocurrencies. Like, cryptocurrencies are supposed to be cash, lol. You don't "cash out" your euros no it was never intended to be a currency don't get so hung up on that, it's clearly a 'store of value'
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Apr 28, 2021 21:25
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I think I'm cynical about the broken state of modern institutions, but even I would have thought after you print $50 Billion: Treasury officers would kick down your door and disappear you. If there is one role left the state manages to still play, it is to defend capital.
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Apr 28, 2021 21:25
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Desiderata posted:I think I'm cynical about the broken state of modern institutions, but even I would have thought after you print $50 Billion: Treasury officers would kick down your door and disappear you. If there is one role left the state manages to still play, it is to defend capital.
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Apr 28, 2021 21:30
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Blotto_Otter posted:Between arguing with cryptocurrency zealots for years and now antivaxxers for the last half-year, it's been my experience that it doesn't matter how well-researched you are and how thoughtfully you engage with someone on a topic if they are engaging with that topic in bad faith. If someone's decided that this is the way they're going to get rich quick, you making Good Counterargument #38 isn't going to matter if the first 37 arguments didn't matter. Rational arguments don't matter when someone is making an irrational decision based on greed and emotion. (What you can try to do is stop her from persuading others around you to follow her down the same dumb path.)
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Apr 28, 2021 21:37
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InternetJunky posted:I know that's what's in store for me once I start to argue with her about it, and I know I won't be changing her mind, but even if there's a fractional chance I could convince her I'd like to make sure I give it my best shot. The problem is that somehow she fell in with the personalfinance crowd on reddit and she made a bunch of money on GME, so now those reddit people "really know what they are talking about". It's gambling. Just because she won once doesn't mean she'll win again. In fact, odds are she'll lose.
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Apr 28, 2021 21:39
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InternetJunky posted:I know that's what's in store for me once I start to argue with her about it, and I know I won't be changing her mind, but even if there's a fractional chance I could convince her I'd like to make sure I give it my best shot. The problem is that somehow she fell in with the personalfinance crowd on reddit and she made a bunch of money on GME, so now those reddit people "really know what they are talking about". The trouble with crypto is the same as with casinos, and it's that it is possible for a person to make money. Once someone's gotten a taste of winning that money, good luck convincing them that it was largely a matter of luck and timing and that it all ends the same way unless they walk away while they're ahead. Nessus posted:Consider who was in charge of the Treasury Department at the time. It isn't like these guys are all plugged into the Frankenstein computer gangster god network in practical, day-week-month operational terms, even if they may have the same ultimate broad aims The feds have never been great at timely enforcement actions involving white-collar crime, and the thing that speeds it up is headlines about people with money losing that money, which hasn't happened yet with Tether. It didn't help that Tether also happened to rise to prominence during the four years where the federal government was run by people who hated the very concept of a functional and competent federal government. There's about a half-dozen federal agencies that should be personally offended by the existence of Tether, maybe between a new administration and a newly-public Coinbase serving themselves up as an offramp for a bunch of definitely-not-suspicious USDT-holders we'll see them finally decide to take some interest. But at this point, I won't be shocked if the feds don't do anything until after the bubble pops and people actually get burned. (Daily reminder that Harry Markopolous called the SEC bunches of times about Madoff from 2000 onward, and they didn't do squat until after his own sons turned him in late 2008 once the scheme started falling apart because of the financial crisis.)
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Apr 28, 2021 22:01
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the last signal... posted:no it was never intended to be a currency don't get so hung up on that, it's clearly a 'store of value' “value” lol
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Apr 28, 2021 22:09
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DerekSmartymans posted:“value” lol I'd call them digital FunkoPop, but apparently Funko has already climbed aboard the NFT train. https://investor.funko.com/news-and...er/default.aspx
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Apr 28, 2021 22:17
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the last signal... posted:no it was never intended to be a currency don't get so hung up on that, it's clearly a 'store of value' This is one I've seen come up a bunch. My question is "what is the difference between currency and store of value," and I mean that in both the "what do they claim it is" and "what is the difference as defined by someone who isn't huffing their own farts." I am assuming that the real answer is "there isn't, this is rhetorical sleight of hand because shitcoins are a scam top to bottom," but still. Blotto_Otter posted:The feds have never been great at timely enforcement actions involving white-collar crime, and the thing that speeds it up is headlines about people with money losing that money, which hasn't happened yet with Tether. It didn't help that Tether also happened to rise to prominence during the four years where the federal government was run by people who hated the very concept of a functional and competent federal government. There's about a half-dozen federal agencies that should be personally offended by the existence of Tether, maybe between a new administration and a newly-public Coinbase serving themselves up as an offramp for a bunch of definitely-not-suspicious USDT-holders we'll see them finally decide to take some interest. But at this point, I won't be shocked if the feds don't do anything until after the bubble pops and people actually get burned. (Daily reminder that Harry Markopolous called the SEC bunches of times about Madoff from 2000 onward, and they didn't do squat until after his own sons turned him in late 2008 once the scheme started falling apart because of the financial crisis.) While I think that trying to put out the fires of the last four years is a major priority in the White House right now, including dealing with the plague that was supposed to miraculously drop from fifteen cases to zero last year which then went on to kill more Americans than World War Two, but financial bullshit does tend to be "we'll get around to it" until it affects rich motherfuckers, who have the pull to grab relevant people by the scruff of the neck and say "you will get around to it right now."
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Apr 28, 2021 22:32
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MechaCrash posted:This is one I've seen come up a bunch. My question is "what is the difference between currency and store of value," and I mean that in both the "what do they claim it is" and "what is the difference as defined by someone who isn't huffing their own farts." I am assuming that the real answer is "there isn't, this is rhetorical sleight of hand because shitcoins are a scam top to bottom," but still. A currency is generally accepted and can be exchanged for goods and services. A "store of value" cannot be exchanged for goods and services without first exchanging it for a currency. That's the best I've ever been able to get out of one of these shitcoiners. How it "stores value" when it's a worthless bunch of numbers that nobody with real products wants is an exercise left to the reader.
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Apr 28, 2021 22:49
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spankmeister posted:Banks charge negative interest for anything over like 100k. You would have to invest to get any return or you're losing money. First sentence, wrong. Second sentence, possibly true if bank interest is less than inflation.
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Apr 28, 2021 22:50
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Blotto_Otter posted:
here we gooooo
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Apr 28, 2021 22:51
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Flowers for QAnon posted:First sentence, wrong. Second sentence, possibly true if bank interest is less than inflation. I actually made quite a bit of money while looking for a house by bouncing my down payment between online savings accounts for their minimum balance bonuses. One of them paid over 4% annualized on a 6 figure deposit when taking the bonus into account. Not quite S&P 500 money, but it was completely risk free.
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Apr 28, 2021 22:59
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MechaCrash posted:This is one I've seen come up a bunch. My question is "what is the difference between currency and store of value," and I mean that in both the "what do they claim it is" and "what is the difference as defined by someone who isn't huffing their own farts." I am assuming that the real answer is "there isn't, this is rhetorical sleight of hand because shitcoins are a scam top to bottom," but still. If were to attempt a good faith answer, I think the difference would be that "currency" implies a good medium for denominating and transmitting value (i.e., something you canuse to denominate prices and conduct financial transactions with because it's easy to transfer and widely accepted as payment, not necessarily something you want to hold because it will appreciate in value), whereas "store of value" implies a good asset for retaining value (i.e., something that will reliably hold its value or appreciate over time, but not necessarily something that is easily transferrable and suitable for conducting financial transactions). "Store of value" became a fallback rationalization for bitcoin once it started to become apparent it was never going to function as something akin to digital cash, and personally I think it's a coward's term and I wish they'd be more upfront and just say "digital gold" instead. But none of this poo poo is argued in good faith by bitcoin true believers. Trying to pin down what someone means by those terms (and whether bitcoin actually succeeds at one or the other) often just leads to a bunch of rhetorical tricks meant to have you talking in circles. divabot posted:here we gooooo 
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Apr 28, 2021 23:23
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divabot posted:here we gooooo Make it bigger
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Apr 29, 2021 00:01
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Blotto_Otter posted:If were to attempt a good faith answer, I think the difference would be that "currency" implies a good medium for denominating and transmitting value (i.e., something you canuse to denominate prices and conduct financial transactions with because it's easy to transfer and widely accepted as payment, not necessarily something you want to hold because it will appreciate in value), whereas "store of value" implies a good asset for retaining value (i.e., something that will reliably hold its value or appreciate over time, but not necessarily something that is easily transferrable and suitable for conducting financial transactions). This is a good answer, thanks. As has been noted elsewhere (including your own answer!), trying to get answers about this kind of thing is tricky, because it can be meant in the "what do they claim it means" sense and "what does it actually mean" sense, and the "actually means" is usually bullshit piled on horseshit under a layer of brickdust and horsefeathers held together with applesauce, all coated in a generous layer of snake oil.
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Apr 29, 2021 00:14
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